Speculating about Avernum 4's plot

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AuthorTopic: Speculating about Avernum 4's plot
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #0
I tried, I swear I tried!

I tried to make out something coherent from the HUGE number of Avernum 4 posts, but I couldn't. It seems to be a random collection of rants against Jeff for not doing this sooner or doing it at all, flames against previous posters, disconnected thoughts about religion and a dialogue about which is better - Avernum or Exile.

Sigh. Do all the discussions in the general forum have to end like that?

So, in an effort to create a more interesting discussion, allow me to pose a question to all of you - What do you believe (or hope) will be the plot of the upcoming Avernum game?

Here is my guess:

I think, as someone briefly mentioned in the previous thread, that the plot will be a succession war for Avernum after King Micah dies.

It may sound too Geneforge-esque, but such a scenario would provide an excellent back drop for great role playing. Do you support the child king who is a bit funny in the head? Do you support the Empire in their attempt to annex Avernum and bring peace to all humanity, by force if necessary? Do you support some other faction? Or, for the power gamers out there, do you fight your way to the crown (leaving an ocean of blood, of course)?

Such a plot would be entirely consistent with Jeff's style of using role playing games to examine ethical ambiguity and a free society's relationship to power. (He used to have a column called "the grumpy gamer" or something like that, in which he mentioned that his favorite games were Odyssey: the Legend of Nemesis, and Planescape. Both of these titles certainly are consistent with Jeff's idea of what makes a great role playing experience. In fact, Nethergate and Geneforge explore this theme, as does the Small Rebellion scenario, and Avernum III to a certain, albeit more clumsy, extent.)

I, at least, would find such a succession war to be incredibly interesting. It could have enormous replay potential, and it would be very different from the previous Avernum games.

And, if I'm totally wrong, perhaps I could go and just make the scenario described above in BoA. Assuming, of course, I learn how to script dialogue.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #1
Sounds interesting.

More likely, we will be in another Slith war.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #2
Well. On the one hand, the plots of Nethergate and the Geneforges came after the Exile/Avernum plots, which were his first and admittedly rough works. On the other hand, he could just have an Avernum mentality.

A war of succession would be good, but I expect a vahnatai war with little justification instead.

—Alorael, who is also a proud and unrepentant pessimist.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #3
As well as a fair deal of illegal shaping.

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私のバラドですそしてころしたいいらればころす
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
One Thousand Slimy Things
Member # 66
Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by [b:
The Absolut Sagacious stranger[/b]]
Would he make such a big change in the formula?
No. I already cancelled out my theory.

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You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 995 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #5
I don't think it will be either. I think it will be something else. Main plots-- the risen Nephilim come back for their fallen brethren. Think highly armed angry nephils from another dimension. The sliths attack in force. There is a cold war between the Vahnati and Empire. A massive quickfire bomb is set off inside the empire by the risen Nephilim, etc. I do not think it will be what we expect.

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Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #6
quote:
Originally written by [b:
Aedrac[/b]]

I like the idea, but then wouldn't you be forced to have a party of all one race?

I didn't think of that. I guess it would be similar to Nethergate, cause you'd probably choose a warrior, mage, etc and it differ from the other avernums.

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You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #7
You could have different NPC's join you depending on which side you take. This could include monsters. A young dragon could join you, an imperial dervish, a vahnati, or if you are evil a raksashi that would pretend it was a nephilim when it entered towns.

This would add a little spice to the game.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
BANNED
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Profile Homepage #8
Something I think that we might see is that a part of the Avernites (Commander Johnson) go on crazy attacks on the Empire and split off and form some sort of resistance group. You have to stop them to keep the good name of the Avernites untarnished, or you can listen to them and help bring down the Empire.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2628
Profile Homepage #9
I don't think Jeff would be willing to put that much work into a game. I mean, 4 different paths? He seems a little too lazy to do that.

I think it would be slightly unfair if you could choose to be a vahnatai. I mean, for sliths, you get pole weapon bonus. For nephlim, you get thrown missle and bow and arrow bonus. For vahnatai, you would get not only bonuses in fighting with melee weapons and throwables, you would get a bonus with magic.

I would like to see new spells as well. Maybe incorporate the spells from Exile and throw them in.

I dunno.

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Wham Bam Shizam
Posts: 512 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3804
Profile #10
My guess is that whatever will happen, as some of you said it will most probably center around the empire-avernum-vahnati tirangle. There's just too much uncovered ground for them to ignore.

As a result of the destruction of the monster plagues there's no doubt the vahnatai are angry. They even said it was just the beginning of their revenge. So they're going to have to do something, they can't just sit there.

The questions Kyna pointed out i also feel will be very important. There are more than enough people still bitter with the avernites, and i have no doubt they could overule Prazac. The problem there is that could start the whole story again, but maybe a common cause could unite the people once and for all? Maybe the fight against the vahnatai.

But what i really hope they include in avernum 4 is a great big avernite city in that open area they told us about in AV3. Then in there we could find all those classic averites that we've known and talked to who had longed to return. Maybe Anamixander would be the mayor? I'd like to see Marrian and Ko married with kids, the reaction of that man who had never seen a bird and the surviving charcters from AV1 there among other things. I had hoped something like that in AV3, but if there was such a town in AV4 it will make going through AV3 more worthwhile.

Written by Kelandon
quote:
What I would like to see is a bit different. I'd like to see Vantanas, and a strange new jungle environment, and lots of new monsters and stuf.
I'd like to see a bit of jungle too, though i have no idea where exactly he'd put it in. I'd also like to see some kind of monkey inspired monster, something like cannibalistic monkeys. (They exist, and they scare me. :|)

(Edit: My 50th post! *mad leprechaun dance*)

[ Sunday, December 26, 2004 00:21: Message edited by: The Red Book ]

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"This......is a TREE! What's it for?" -Exile III
Posts: 75 | Registered: Saturday, December 20 2003 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #11
Sorta like Nethergate.

I like the idea, but then wouldn't you be forced to have a party of all one race?

As for A4, I like the idea of a huge race war, where everyone is after the others and shakey alliances must be made if anyone is going to survive.

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The critics agree!

Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly!

"I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5321
Profile #12
I think it should be a matter of choice. Say for example:
You pick a vahnatai character, you start out with fellow vahnatai

You pick a Slith, you start out in a slith fort

You pick a nephil, you start out with nephilim

An if you pick a human, you start out with humans

Thats just my idea, but I think it would be kind of cool.

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You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 59 | Registered: Friday, December 24 2004 08:00
BANNED
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Profile #13
I think it should be a matter of choice. Say for example:
You pick a vahnatai character, you start out with fellow vahnatai

You pick a Slith, you start out in a slith fort

You pick a nephil, you start out with nephilim

An if you pick a human, you start out with humans

Thats just my idea, but I think it would be kind of cool.

--------------------
You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #14
Hey,
Nice topic!
Alright, my ideas for A4's plot are either;

1. A war between the sliths and the vahnatai in the deeper caves, so that you finally get to go behind that gate from the Bahssikava quest from A1.

2. The dragons finally start the revenge on the empire that they kept talking about and you are members of the empire( not avernum) who have to stop it...maybe you could have a moral choice to side with the dragons or something?
..and have a big side quest about what Cerulian ended up doing with the Grimoire of Thren. :-)

Anyway, I personally am very happy that there is going to be an A4 and hope that it has a lot of underground exploring(surface was good but underground is more fun), maybe in a different part of avernum of in the deeper vahnatai caves.

I don't think that you should be able to start the game as a vahnatai but maybe you could pick up a vahnatai NPC charater to add to your party?? why not other races like a rakasha??
If they do that I think they should have diffent unique skills and stats like they had in Nethergate between the romans and celts.
hhmmmm is there a "A4 suggestions" topic yet? I think i'll keep the rest of my ideas for that.
dav
Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
BANNED
Member # 5219
Profile #15
quote:
Originally written by [b:
Aedrac[/b]]

I like the idea, but then wouldn't you be forced to have a party of all one race?

I didn't think of that. I guess it would be similar to Nethergate, cause you'd probably choose a warrior, mage, etc and it differ from the other avernums.

--------------------
You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #16
quote:
Originally written by Zorro:



I think, as someone briefly mentioned in the previous thread, that the plot will be a succession war for Avernum after King Micah dies.

Z

Yeah that was my suggestion. In my mind that was a logical step to take because doesn't the Trilogy span over several decades? Micah reigned all that time and he would be getting rather old.
It is possible that he could have had more children over that time. It could also mean that Avernum could be divided up by how many heirs and "The Prince that's funny in the head" could be locked up in a tower.

There is also the possibility that Micah would look towards necromancy after seeing that his offspring was in no place to take over. He could've kept quiet over the whole dying thing with only a few trusted advisors knowing the truth.

I wouldn't mind a scenario with the action taking place somewhere away from the where the trilogy took place.

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"He's mine, go get your own human plaything!" Bernard Black (Black Books)

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Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 1558
Profile #17
Would he make such a big change in the formula?

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Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4590
Profile #18
I like the idea of a "cold war" between Avernum / The Empire / Vahnatai, with lots of secret things going on, assasinations, magic, the threat of a huge war with both sides having some kind of superweapons that could destroy everyone, overall tension and stress everywhere, agents hidden in enemy cities, etc. Just like the real cold war! Lots of great things could come out of ideas like that, look at all the great spy movies that are based on the cold war!

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I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation.
- George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 103 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 5325
Profile #19
Hey,
Nice topic!
Alright, my ideas for A4's plot are either;

1. A war between the sliths and the vahnatai in the deeper caves, so that you finally get to go behind that gate from the Bahssikava quest from A1.

2. The dragons finally start the revenge on the empire that they kept talking about and you are members of the empire( not avernum) who have to stop it...maybe you could have a moral choice to side with the dragons or something?
..and have a big side quest about what Cerulian ended up doing with the Grimoire of Thren. :-)

Anyway, I personally am very happy that there is going to be an A4 and hope that it has a lot of underground exploring(surface was good but underground is more fun), maybe in a different part of avernum of in the deeper vahnatai caves.

I don't think that you should be able to start the game as a vahnatai but maybe you could pick up a vahnatai NPC charater to add to your party?? why not other races like a rakasha??
If they do that I think they should have diffent unique skills and stats like they had in Nethergate between the romans and celts.
hhmmmm is there a "A4 suggestions" topic yet? I think i'll keep the rest of my ideas for that.
dav
Posts: 5 | Registered: Monday, December 27 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #20
I'm with Dav on the vahnatai characters. If you get one, it should be an NPC that joins your party somewhere in your quest.

--------------------
The critics agree!

Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly!

"I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin!
Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #21
You could have different NPC's join you depending on which side you take. This could include monsters. A young dragon could join you, an imperial dervish, a vahnati, or if you are evil a raksashi that would pretend it was a nephilim when it entered towns.

This would add a little spice to the game.

--------------------
Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
BANNED
Member # 5219
Profile #22
quote:
Originally written by [b:
The Absolut Sagacious stranger[/b]]
Would he make such a big change in the formula?
No. I already cancelled out my theory.

--------------------
You can take my Windows XP when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 65
Profile Homepage #23
quote:
Originally written by Zorro:



I think, as someone briefly mentioned in the previous thread, that the plot will be a succession war for Avernum after King Micah dies.

Z

Yeah that was my suggestion. In my mind that was a logical step to take because doesn't the Trilogy span over several decades? Micah reigned all that time and he would be getting rather old.
It is possible that he could have had more children over that time. It could also mean that Avernum could be divided up by how many heirs and "The Prince that's funny in the head" could be locked up in a tower.

There is also the possibility that Micah would look towards necromancy after seeing that his offspring was in no place to take over. He could've kept quiet over the whole dying thing with only a few trusted advisors knowing the truth.

I wouldn't mind a scenario with the action taking place somewhere away from the where the trilogy took place.

--------------------
"He's mine, go get your own human plaything!" Bernard Black (Black Books)

Also look at my sitehere
This is also a good site
Posts: 650 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4942
Profile #24
I don't think Jeff would be willing to put that much work into a game. I mean, 4 different paths? He seems a little too lazy to do that.

I think it would be slightly unfair if you could choose to be a vahnatai. I mean, for sliths, you get pole weapon bonus. For nephlim, you get thrown missle and bow and arrow bonus. For vahnatai, you would get not only bonuses in fighting with melee weapons and throwables, you would get a bonus with magic.

I would like to see new spells as well. Maybe incorporate the spells from Exile and throw them in.

I dunno.

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Wham Bam Shizam
Posts: 247 | Registered: Monday, September 6 2004 07:00

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