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Call for input: Standardizing on a rating rubric in Blades of Avernum
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 16 2007 16:22 Profile Homepage #13
The inclusion of separate ratings for puzzles, combat, and so on, would be very useful for players like me, who are just looking for something that matches their current mood.

The potential categories (among the ones I look at) include: plot, combat, puzzles, atmosphere, and unusual mechanics.

For categories like combat, puzzles, and non-standard mechanics it would also be good to include a "High/Medium/Low" rating of how important they are to a scenario. (If I am not in the mood for puzzles, searching for scenarios with low puzzle score wouldn't work, because low puzzle score might mean that scenario is full of bad puzzles, rather than lacks them completely.)

In summary, I'd like to see ratings of quality in the 5 categories (plot, atmosphere, puzzles, combat, and non-standard mechanics), as well as an indication of how important each category is to the scenario (for the times when I want to avoid puzzles/combat/whatever).

PS Reviews of reviews are such a good idea that we should take it a step further: reviews of reviews of reviews. :P

Seriously, if you don't agree with a review, write your own.

EDIT: The thumbs up/down systems are useful for places like Amazon, where they are a good way to sort a list of dozens, or even hundreds of reviews. However, considering that we'll be lucky to have a dozen reviews per scenario in Blades Forge, it would be more beneficial for people to write their own reviews, rather than give anonymous ratings to existing ones.

[ Friday, November 16, 2007 16:26: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Revised political-geneforge sympathies poll in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, November 13 2007 13:56 Profile Homepage #81
Goldenking, that is a nice story, but it contradicts the history given in game.

Contra, I had pulled out text for that area onto a webpage at some point. Let's see if it's still around...

Here it is. (Warning, this is obviously a spoiler for one of the biggest secrets of Geneforge 1. If you'd rather discover it for yourself, don't click the link.)
http://www.geocities.com/zeviz1/Geneforge_secret.html

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded. Something like that anyway. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 12 2007 17:58 Profile Homepage #332
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Salmon:

quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

To Dikiyoba: Please, please let me kill him. I don't care how it's justified, just let me kill him.
I'll assist. You know, like toss Ephesos to do the job.
FYT :P

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded. Something like that anyway. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 12 2007 17:11 Profile Homepage #328
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Salmon:

quote:
Originally written by The Ratt:

*cough cough* So, when do you think the next chapter will be out?
During a recent interview, Dikiyoba confessed that her next installment would be released "Bleh. Whenever I get around to it." This author was compelled to cut short the interview at that point, not because of the brevity of her answers, but because she was clearly intoxicated.
Was the intoxication the result of your attempt to exert undue influence on the future course of the story? :P

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Revised political-geneforge sympathies poll in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 12 2007 16:56 Profile Homepage #78
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

...
Here's my speculation. Shapers could easily stamp out rogue shaping throughout their lands, by spreading swarms of spy-bird creatures that simply sniff out essence. Whenever some odd loner's basement starts to reek of vinegar and magic, an Agent pays the village a visit. Monarch is just beginning to cackle over his first few rabid Fyoras, when suddenly he finds it's searing orbs for breakfast. Mopping up afterwards at this stage will only take a mop.
...
I suspect they don't do it for the same reason no modern society keeps its citizens under 24/7 video surveillance:

1. The citizens wouldn't be too happy.
2. The people in charge wouldn't be too happy with being watched either. (Even if only the Watchers are watching each other.)
3. This wouldn't work, because it's not that hard to make a completely sealed underground laboratory. (Or, rather, it's sufficiently easy to do if you can construct a secret underground laboratory in the first place.) In this case, biological weapons are a better comparison than nuclear ones.

quote:
Originally written by Contra:

... Problem is, Canisters make you inte an arrogant, ravaging madman who can't accept anything but submission and uttermost "respect" from anyone who isn't as "pure" as they are.
In essence; Exactly like the Shapers, except the Shapers can actually controll themselves if they have to.
...
This is a very good point. I suspect most of the Shaper arrogance comes from the fact that when you can create or destroy life with a wave of your hand, it's hard to not feel superior to mere mortals, especially the creations whom you could create or destroy at will.

Based on the history from ancient temple in Geneforge 1, it seems to me that Shapers started out as a kind of Trajkovites: survivors of the devastating shaping wars that destroyed the old Sulica civilization, who tried to impose strict controls on Shaping to prevent the repeat of such disasters. However, as SoT describes, that control was never as firm as they'd hoped for, and eventually one of the experiments got out of controls, producing canisters at the time when they could do the most damage.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Chinese Products Fail Again in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 12 2007 16:26 Profile Homepage #98
quote:
Originally written by Najosz Thjsza Kjras:

quote:
Originally written by Randomizer:

quote:
Originally written by The Almighty Do-er of Stuff:

quote:
Originally written by Lenar:

I also missed how the Ten Commandments lead to killing Hindus.
I don't think he meant the Ten Commandments themselves, but rather enforcing them.
The Ten Commandments only applies to Jews. Other religions fall under the 7 Noahic Laws given after the Flood. It's the Christian misinterpretation of what Jewish laws they wish to follow that leads to killing Hindus and others.
I'm pretty sure the Noahide laws also nail the Hindus - I think 'polytheism' is one of those universal offenses.
I don't have enough formal education to give rabbinical sources, but I've heard that whenever the Bible says "he shall surely die", the punishment is supposed to come from heavenly court. So if somebody decides to randomly start walking around killing Jews who break 10 commandments, or killing Hindus for breaking Noahide Laws, that person would be guilty not only of murder, but of blasphemy (deciding to pass yourself the judgment that should have been passed by the heavenly court).

PS Talking about Jewish laws perverted by some Cristian sects, the only place Old Testament mentions homosexuality is the same part that includes dietary laws and other religious restrictions. However, for some reason there is no talk about a constitutional amendment against eating pork, and no states are passing laws that give criminal penalties for eating cheeseburgers.

[ Monday, November 12, 2007 16:28: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Play Time in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 12 2007 16:14 Profile Homepage #3
I am not sure whether I should count KoL as a game or just chatroom, since I sometimes log in just for the chat, and the times I've stayed up until 2am were usually due to interesting conversations, rather than playing a game for too long.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Babelfish Contest in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 12 2007 00:05 Profile Homepage #23
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

Originally by Ephesos:

quote:
(Side note: It seems that English->Korean->English never becomes stable... at least not as far as I went)
It probably would have eventually. It took nine translations, but English->Japanese->English finally stabilized for me. But the ending few weren't quite as funny as some of the earlier ones, so meh.
...
I guess how long it takes to stabilize depends on the quality of the translator. Their Russian translations are particularly bad, managing to butcher every phrase I put in, no matter how simple. So the English->Russian->English loop never stabilized, but eventually began to flip between the same pair of results:

It in best road in the pliability of order to connection middles dosk programs Spiderweb. Transmit your sanity to the door.

and:

It in best road in the pliability of order to dosk middles connection programs Spiderweb. Transmit your sanity to the door.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Protesting (In General) in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, November 11 2007 22:54 Profile Homepage #53
quote:
Originally written by Najosz Thjsza Kjras:

quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

I am not going to snip quotes out of that monstrosity, so just a few comments:

- The complaint about being punished for skipping class to protest.
This reminds me of some "professional protesters" from Berkeley, who disrupted classes, fought with police, and then held huge protest rallies after some of them got arrested. (What's even worse is that the campus and police authorities gave in and dropped almost all charges.) The whole point of "civil disobedience" is that you take the punishment for breaking unjust laws to show people your determination and the power of your cause. If you are just going to cut class to hang out with your friends shouting some slogans, that's not "civil disobedience". It's "slacking off". If those Berkeley students dusrupted classes and fought with police, and expected not to get arrested, that's not civil disobedience. It's huliganism.
I think protest is an admirable activity - probably the cornerstone of a functional democracy, and you see a lot more protest happen much more peaceably in democratic societies than authoritarian ones - and trying to clamp down on it and call doing it for a 'bad reason' 'hooliganism' is about the most fundamental move you could make towards fascism.

As a political scientist, I find suggesting that protesting is basically illegitimate and that participation (through protest or whatever) needs to be well-informed - otherwise, 'hooliganism' - to be harrowing, precisely because the simultaneous glory and squalor of democracy is the fact that any idiot can and should vote. You take that away, and you may or may not (usually not, if history is any judge) produce a more efficient system, but you will produce a more tyrannous one. It's usually a fairly short time between protest, disobedience and other 'illegitimate' outlets being deligitimized and stigmatized and 'legitimate' outlets getting thrown out as well. Yeah, I know some of these kids are protesting for no good reason, but then again, most school elections are popularity contests. It's a good thing for people to be used to the prerequisites of a republic, and one of those is protest.
...
Did you actually bother reading anything that I wrote besides the first and last sentence of every paragraph?

If you did, you would have noticed that what I was calling "hooliganism" was the expectation certain protesters at Berkeley had that they could disrupt classes and attack police officers with impunity. The point of my paragraph you were presumably replying to was that most of the power of "civil disobedience" (as opposed to violent protests) comes from demonstrating your willingness to face the consequences of your actions.

Anyway, since you don't actually read my posts even when replying to them, I am not going to bother to reply to the rest of it.

[ Sunday, November 11, 2007 22:55: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Protesting (In General) in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 9 2007 13:38 Profile Homepage #39
I am not going to snip quotes out of that monstrosity, so just a few comments:

- The complaint about being punished for skipping class to protest.
This reminds me of some "professional protesters" from Berkeley, who disrupted classes, fought with police, and then held huge protest rallies after some of them got arrested. (What's even worse is that the campus and police authorities gave in and dropped almost all charges.) The whole point of "civil disobedience" is that you take the punishment for breaking unjust laws to show people your determination and the power of your cause. If you are just going to cut class to hang out with your friends shouting some slogans, that's not "civil disobedience". It's "slacking off". If those Berkeley students dusrupted classes and fought with police, and expected not to get arrested, that's not civil disobedience. It's huliganism.

- The complaint about internet filter.
As their complaint says, the filter is in whitelist-only mode only during "academic hours". What are they doing online at that time anyway?

- The complaint about vitamins.
They say that everybody had their medications and vitamins approved already, so what's the problem? The school probably just doesn't want to get sued if somebody eats something they shouldn't have. If anything, blame our litigious society.

- Maintanance problems.
As everybody else said, "welcome to the real world".

- Complaint about Internet cut off time.
Perhaps they should learn to budget their time better and not put off projects until the night before they are due. That would be a useful lesson to learn for life in general.

So overall, looks like one of those "we protest because that's what all the cool kids do" kinds of protests to me.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Revised political-geneforge sympathies poll in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 9 2007 12:50 Profile Homepage #70
quote:
Originally written by Goldenking:

The Rebels are not alone in loosing rogues upon the population. The Shapers were the ones who loosed all of the rogues in the Forsaken Lands, along with areas of Burwood. More imporatantly, the Shapers were the ones who sent the clawbugs into the Dillame fields, driving away the farmers and nearly killing them. Undoubtedly some did not run fast enough.
Is this from Geneforge 4? I was referring to Geneforge 3. (I haven't finished #4 yet.) Either way, this makes Rebels no better than shapers. And probably worse, because rebels started this practice first.

quote:
Your second point is debatable. We haven't heard much about a Shaper's background before the school, so I'm going to say that this really can't be proven. Although, based on the actions of the Shapers (taxes, mostly), and the general eliteness of the Shapers, I'd say it's more of a plutocratic method of selection, allowing you to rise on your own merits once you're in the ranks.
My conclusion was derived from NPC interactions in Geneforge 3. I don't remember the exact text, but there was something about failing student sent back to her human village, and other indications that shaper apprentices are children of regular humans, rather than Shapers. As for taxes and so on, there are plenty of people in USA who complain just as much about evil Federal Government taking too much taxes and ignoring their needs. (People always complain about taxes, no matter where they live.)

quote:
Your third and final point is unlikely, to say the least. The Shapers didn't keep many books on Shaping, as it is said in basically every game. It's mostly just coded notes and word of mouth. Which makes it more likely the Trakovites will succeed, although that is still a dauntingly collosal task. In the unlikely event that the Trakovites actually do destroy all of the canisters and Shapers/lifecraters, it is extremely unlikely that books and notes would be spared the torch.
Even if Trakovites start burning at the stake anybody suspected of harboring forbidden knowledge, they will be no more successful than Spanish Inquisition was at eradicating "heretics". Knowledge and ideas have proven pretty hard to destroy. And that's even without the added insentive of huge power that comes with shaping.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
How messed Babel Fish communication the international in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 9 2007 12:13 Profile Homepage #2
Nice. :.p babelfish fun, particularly, was if you ask over for it, in order to translate your text between several of languages back and forth, then during I always forms here.

EDIT: It seems they don't even have a consistent vocabulary list for a given language: English->Russian translator converted "back and forth between several languages" into "back and forth между несколькими языков" (leaving the idiomatic expression "back and forth" untranslated), while English->German translator output "zwischen einigen Sprachen hin und her zu" (which even uses a corresponding German expression).

[ Friday, November 09, 2007 12:23: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Revised political-geneforge sympathies poll in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 9 2007 12:02 Profile Homepage #67
First, I agree with SoT's last post:

Riots, rebellions, revolutions, and resulting civil wars are very nasty even in the real world. (Even the relatively gentle American Civil War included episodes like Sherman's march that destroyed everything in its path.) Once you throw weapons of mass destruction into the mix, you get the total devastation described in the Geneforge series.

With that said, Geneforge Rebels seem to be equivalent to the most extreme elements of RL society: indiscriminate attacks against univolved civillians "just to steer things up" wouldn't be accepted by most of the RL revolutionaries. (Here I am referring to Rebel practice of filling areas with uncontrolled rogues that drive farmers away from their fields, killing anybody who doesn't run away fast enough.)

Another thing in Shaper's favor that everybody is forgetting is that they are neither a race nor a cast. From what I've seen in the games, Shaper society is a form of meritocracy, with Shaper schools accepting regular human children from any social class, and positions of power being earned rather than inherited. This makes Shaper society almost as liberal as ancient Greek Democracies, where only male citizens could vote and slaves were treated no better than Geneforge serviles. While citizens of shaper lands have no right to vote, they seem to have at least as much opportunity for upward mobility as citizends of modern USA.

As for the Trakovites, I have only two words: "Sulica Island". The Shapers themselves tried to suppress "dangerous knowledge" and you can see the mess that resulted. I can see the plot of Geneforge 10 as: "In a society where all shaping is punishable by death, a young student stumbles upon ancient texts that contain forgotten secrets. But he is not alone in his discovery. Unimagined horrors are attacking remote villages, and this discovery might yeild a clue to their nature..." (Some unscrupulous people discover well-hidden books on shaping and proceed to take over the world, because everybody else is too weak to oppose them.)

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Consider This Catharsis in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 5 2007 20:20 Profile Homepage #49
After thinking a little more about it, my solution can run in O(n^2) if I use some memorization of intermediate results:

1. Start as before by building a matrix where value(x,y) =
1 if x = y
2 if letter(x) = letter(y) and x > y
0 otherwise

example:
a.b.c.a
1.0.0.2
0.1.0.0
0.0.1.0
0.0.0.1

2. Go through columns finding best values, but remember previous bests instead of recalculating them every time. (By "best value" I mean the best value from the edge of rectangle to the right and top of current point plus the value of the current point. You can see the explanation of this method in Aran's original description of his algorithm.)

for i = n to 1
..for j = 1 to i

....best_vertical(i,j) = max(best_vertical(i,j-1), best(i+1, j-1))
(meaning that best value along the vertical of inner rectangle is either the best value of smaller rectangle, or it's in the corner)

....best_horizontal(i,j) = max(best_horizontal(i+1,j), best(i-1, j-1))
(same as above, but looking along the horizontal edge of the inner rectangle)

....best(i,j) = value(i,j) + max(best_vertical(i,j), best_horizontal(i,j))
(now we get the best value for the point itself)

3. Now go through the two diagonals looking for the largest best value. That is your answer.

for i = 1 to n
..for j = i-1 to i
....result = max(result, best(i,j))

This is equivalent to my original algorithm, but runs in O(n^2).

Could somebody who read Dintiradan's solution (or Dintiradan himself) tell me if my solution is as good as his, or if I need to work more on space and/or time efficiency. (I don't want to read the solution myself, because I am still hoping to be able to find it on my own.)

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Original names in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 5 2007 19:58 Profile Homepage #51
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

Do you really imagine you are going to remotely the same person at 102 as you are right now, and that computer games will be an important thing to you? I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but...

-S-
Do you realize that you are talking to a ten year old? I find a look at my local elementary school playground to be quite instructive whenever I begin to take certain forum members too seriously.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Original names in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 5 2007 12:59 Profile Homepage #22
I also find name-changing to be very rude and annoying. (Why do you expect everybody to memorise a new name for you every week?) I have enough trouble remembering one name per person, so remembering several dozens is a bit much to ask.

I changed my name only twice, as part of a total profile change for a joke. One time, pretending to be Schroedinger's doppelganger during Masquerade, and another time being Dystopian Dictator during last moderator elections.

PS Person #7557, what "member from the lower regions of Russia" are you referring to? I remember only one Russian on these boards, and your PDN doesn't sound even remotely like his.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
RPGs with Unusual Mechanics in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, November 5 2007 12:51 Profile Homepage #3
quote:
Originally written by Yama Toman?:

...
Paladin's Quest -- magic depletes HP rather than MP or memorizations.
...
Betrayal at Krondor (probably along with its sequels) also had magic depleting HP.

That game had another system I haven't seen elsewhere: all your stats decreased in proportion to HP damage you took. So characters with 25/50 HP would have only half of their maximal strength, dexterity, etc. They had "Fatigue", which would be damaged before HP, but once your Fatigue was gone, your stats would start to drop. (Amount of maximum Fatigue was usually similar to max HP, but significantly different for some characters, making a strong-looking character much weaker in practice because he'd start losing stats quickly, due to low Fatigue buffer.)

PS I haven't seen any other game like Nethergate, where you can play two sides of the same storyline with different parties, encountering references to the other party's actions.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Which Geneforge game(s) should I get? in Geneforge Series
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 2 2007 14:47 Profile Homepage #22
My recommendation would be to play G1, G2, and G4.

G1 - The main reason for its charm is that it introduces a completely new setting and game mechanics. However, the engine is not as polished as the later ones. So if you are going to play it, make sure you play it first.

G2 - The best game in the style of G1. There are enough factions for anybody to find one you like, and supporting any of them can lead to a satisfying victory.

G3 - It might be a technological improvement over G2, but was so boring that I didn't finish it. However, part of the reason for my disappointment was that the only choise presented to the player was which of the two evils was the lesser, and I was too spoiled by G2's multitude of options.

G4 - Is supposedly the best game in the series. It's not as open-ended as G2, but makes up for it by engrossing atmosphere and much better engine.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
G2 sect simpatising in Geneforge Series
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 2 2007 14:22 Profile Homepage #14
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

The official Awakened doctrine may be moral, but as I've argued before, the Awakened in practice are clearly and rapidly becoming what they beheld. Learned Pinner is a nice old lady, and their only really major player is the canister-addled demon-summoning Tuldaric. Their great plan is to hold off the Shapers with an army of enslaved Drakons, while modifying themselves into magery, and so giving both the Barzites and the Takers good runs for their money.
Why do I keep hearing about "enslaved Drakons"? Even the most experinced Shapers can control only a few Drakons at a time, and Awakened have only two shapers among their ranks. So there is no way they could control hundreds of drakons through compulsion. (It might be possible with some super-mind control device, but I don't remember any mention of device like that in the story, and it would be obviously something important enough to at least mention.)

So Drakons of the Awakened are allies, rather than slaves.

quote:
Survival in a world of Shapers requires power, but that power doesn't just corrupt. It is corruption. The Awakened refuse to recognize this dilemma. They're not standing on the moral high ground; they just have their heads in the clouds, while their feet are rushing down the same slope as everyone else. This means they have a good chance of producing the worst disasters of all, and so they stand not for moral wisdom but for moral folly. It is understandable to want them to be the good guys. But if you pay attention to what they're actually doing, I think you see that they really aren't.
The game itself disagrees with you. The Awakened ending does not involve them getting any more power than you see during the game. According to the Awakened victory text, their sect gains just enough power to hold their mountain valley, then fights defensively until shapers are willing to negotiate a cease-fire. Defending mountain passages with the help of their Drakon allies does not require nearly as much power as exterminating all the Shaper, which is the goal of the other factions.

So according to game canon, the Awakened actually are as moral as they aspire to be. (Which is why Jeff removed them before Geneforge 3.)

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Name Choice in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 2 2007 13:55 Profile Homepage #58
When coming up with original version of my name for use in games, I just took a Russian translation of Latin root of my name. However, the result, when written in English letters, was impossible to pronounce correctly, so I started rearranging letters until I got something that sounds good. Ironically, this name is still universally mispronounced, because I forgot that "e" is usually read as "ee" in open syllables.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
G2 sect simpatising in Geneforge Series
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 2 2007 12:51 Profile Homepage #12
In Geneforge 2, the Awakened present the obvious moral option. They just want to be left in peace in their secluded mountain refuge, and aren't trying to enslave or exterminate anybody.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
just starting in Geneforge Series
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 2 2007 12:40 Profile Homepage #3
quote:
Originally written by rclear666:

just starting geneforge 3 after completing 2 as taker and awakened. a little confused by the whole recipe thing. where do i find mandrake ticture and demon bile PLEASE. think i can take it from there. please help
Most of these ingredients can be found only much later in the game, so don't worry about it for now.

EDIT: According to walkthrough, the first available Mandrake Tinctures are in a storage room in Fort Wilton (on the 3rd island), and in Krya's refuge (the crypt under the zone from which you depart towards 3rd island). Krya's refuge contains very tough fights, so the Fort Wilton one is probably easier to get.

Demon Bile is in the Storage Road zone of the 3rd island.

[ Friday, November 02, 2007 12:45: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded. Something like that anyway. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 2 2007 12:27 Profile Homepage #279
quote:
Originally written by Azuma:

I'm surprised..roaches with nypmhs? :eek:
"Nymph" is the term for an early stage of insect development. It's somewhat similar to larva, but has slightly different meaning. (Insert Wikipedia link here.)

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
The Sky Is Falling...? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, November 2 2007 12:20 Profile Homepage #283
Synergy, you are coming across as somebody who is just trolling for a fight. Especially with comments like the following:
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

...
quote:
Hitler had his minions develop policies to deal with idiots in their world, but I can't say I like the results.
And now you've proven that this discussion cannot be taken seriously.
Who said this discussion should be taken seriously? Serious is tedious, tra la la. It’s just a discussion with nothing more at stake than anyone chooses to put there — perhaps ego, let’s say. ...
First you post a bunch of inflammatory rhetoric (you can't get much more inflammatory than random Hitler comparisons), then you say "chill, dude" when people are offended, and then you are surprised why nobody takes you seriously. If you are looking for a kindergarten-style exchange of insults, you can certainly find it, but don't be surprised if people start automatically hitting "Page Down" when they see your name next to a post.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Protesting (In General) in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, October 30 2007 17:55 Profile Homepage #13
I've studied at a university that has designated protest areas that are reserved the same way you'd reserve a lecture hall or a video projector, and an administration official whose job title is "protest management". What happens in a place like that is that every sane person ignores the "professional protesters" who participate in daily protests. So nobody takes them seriously even if there is a real issue worthy of a protest.

The students at your school look like a prime material for "professional protesters". "We want Myspace!" is not much better protest cry than "More vegan options in the cafeteria!" And if they keep organising protests on trivial subjects like this, everybody will be so used to ignoring them that if there really is a problem worth protesting about, that protest will get ignored along with the rest of them.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00

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