Protesting (In General)

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AuthorTopic: Protesting (In General)
Jumpin Salmon
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
 written Saturday, November 10 2007 23:29 Profile #50
Albi, the racist Dragon.

Rly.

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Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted"
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Sunday, November 11 2007 00:54 Profile #51
quote:
Originally written by Om, Lum, Yum:

Clearly, what Alec needs from us isn't exactly a hug. Wink wink, dearie. Now, where did Dareva go just when I needed her help...
Bizarrely, I'm still spoken for. But we can always just get you and Dareva together and film the deeply awkward results.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Sunday, November 11 2007 06:11 Profile Homepage #52
I think you were spoken for when the idea was first breached. I mean, that's why it's necessary to restrain you!

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Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, November 11 2007 22:54 Profile Homepage #53
quote:
Originally written by Najosz Thjsza Kjras:

quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

I am not going to snip quotes out of that monstrosity, so just a few comments:

- The complaint about being punished for skipping class to protest.
This reminds me of some "professional protesters" from Berkeley, who disrupted classes, fought with police, and then held huge protest rallies after some of them got arrested. (What's even worse is that the campus and police authorities gave in and dropped almost all charges.) The whole point of "civil disobedience" is that you take the punishment for breaking unjust laws to show people your determination and the power of your cause. If you are just going to cut class to hang out with your friends shouting some slogans, that's not "civil disobedience". It's "slacking off". If those Berkeley students dusrupted classes and fought with police, and expected not to get arrested, that's not civil disobedience. It's huliganism.
I think protest is an admirable activity - probably the cornerstone of a functional democracy, and you see a lot more protest happen much more peaceably in democratic societies than authoritarian ones - and trying to clamp down on it and call doing it for a 'bad reason' 'hooliganism' is about the most fundamental move you could make towards fascism.

As a political scientist, I find suggesting that protesting is basically illegitimate and that participation (through protest or whatever) needs to be well-informed - otherwise, 'hooliganism' - to be harrowing, precisely because the simultaneous glory and squalor of democracy is the fact that any idiot can and should vote. You take that away, and you may or may not (usually not, if history is any judge) produce a more efficient system, but you will produce a more tyrannous one. It's usually a fairly short time between protest, disobedience and other 'illegitimate' outlets being deligitimized and stigmatized and 'legitimate' outlets getting thrown out as well. Yeah, I know some of these kids are protesting for no good reason, but then again, most school elections are popularity contests. It's a good thing for people to be used to the prerequisites of a republic, and one of those is protest.
...
Did you actually bother reading anything that I wrote besides the first and last sentence of every paragraph?

If you did, you would have noticed that what I was calling "hooliganism" was the expectation certain protesters at Berkeley had that they could disrupt classes and attack police officers with impunity. The point of my paragraph you were presumably replying to was that most of the power of "civil disobedience" (as opposed to violent protests) comes from demonstrating your willingness to face the consequences of your actions.

Anyway, since you don't actually read my posts even when replying to them, I am not going to bother to reply to the rest of it.

[ Sunday, November 11, 2007 22:55: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Monday, November 12 2007 00:08 Profile #54
If it makes any difference, my original post had some rude things in it directed at you, but I decided not to do that this time. We're all reasonable people here and I'm perfectly willing to assume the differences in our opinions are largely because of differing expertise.

Which makes mine better, of course. :P But it still doesn't call for an insult match, and I'm sorry if the tenor remains somewhat hostile.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Thralni
Master
Member # 5977
 written Monday, November 12 2007 00:18 Profile Homepage #55
quote:
Originally written by Knobgoblinking:

Protesting in general? Power to the people, man.
Oh god no, not again!?

We gave power to the people already several times, and what happend?
- WO I;
- WO II;
- Soviet Union and the list goes on.

Is that really something to be proud of? No, I think not. The masses are dumb. Usually a bunch of freaking idiots. When one person says he will help them, they all run after him and lick his royal behind.

That said, I don't think the protest would have been a succes. This is the usual stuff between children who don't really know what they want and don't know what's best for them, and the grown-ups who do think they know what's best for their children and therefor cancel the nice stuff. Point is, that nice stuff that you mentioned just doesn't really belong in school.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Monday, November 12 2007 00:39 Profile #56
WO?

If you're talking about the World Wars, I hardly think that either Imperial or Nazi Germany could have 'power to the people' applied to it without being set on fire.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Thralni
Master
Member # 5977
 written Monday, November 12 2007 01:46 Profile Homepage #57
Hitler didn't have to become germany's leader. If the masses wouldn't have followed him and believe what he said, nothign would have happened. I guess, though, that in retrospect it is very easy to say it. But I'm still of th opinion that the masses are quite dumb.

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Play and rate my scenarios:

Where the rivers meet
View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.
Co-designed with Nikki: El Presidente.

Give us your drek!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Monday, November 12 2007 04:00 Profile Homepage #58
Most dictators start out as populists. Turns out it's easy to become ruler of a group of people who love you - just as easy as it is to stay ruler of a group of people who fear you.

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Najosz Thjsza Kjras
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
 written Monday, November 12 2007 11:33 Profile #59
quote:
Originally written by Thralni:

Hitler didn't have to become germany's leader. If the masses wouldn't have followed him and believe what he said, nothign would have happened. I guess, though, that in retrospect it is very easy to say it. But I'm still of th opinion that the masses are quite dumb.
Which is usually the first step towards the kind of pseudo-populist demagoguery Hitler engaged in. The people are too dumb and easily led to merit a democratic government; plebiscites (where the ruling party nearly always wins) are more than enough to justify the government's policies from on high.

[ Monday, November 12, 2007 11:34: Message edited by: Najosz Thjsza Kjras ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00

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