Chinese Products Fail Again
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Infiltrator
Member # 4826
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 07:24
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Old Testament, Deuteronomy 25: 11-12. Don't bother voicing disbelief. -------------------- "Of course, not all technology is good. Some is exactly the opposite (bad)." — Dave Barry Posts: 458 | Registered: Friday, August 6 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 10:19
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I hate it when people hijack good political threads to rant about the stupid Bible. http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/ www.venganza.org The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a much better religion, plus it comes with a trial period: try it for thirty days, and if you don't like it your old deity will probably take you back. Ramen! -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 11:26
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quote: quote:Why, because their system shows the benefits of the death penalty. Oh, and watch your language please.[/QB][/QUOTE] You'll note that the CIA doesn't actually note whether or not the policy works, which you did. I'd say with near-complete certainty that it doesn't, because that kind of brutal nonsense usually results in people getting violent. For instance, fairly few people got killed over the sale of alcohol in 1918, and the careers of several horrible people you might have heard of - including, say, Al Capone - were pretty much made by Prohibition. My experience with punitive drug laws is that they almost always result in inappropriately heavy sentencing for users, make it almost impossible to capture dealers and producers outside of military sting ops (which require resources most countries don't have), and generally claim a lot more success than they can actually be verified to have. None of this is controversial, you know - any serious historian that refuted any of that about Prohibition would be considered a crank, it's just that we like to pretend alcohol isn't a dangerous drug. Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 8030
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 11:55
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The point of quoting Jewish law was to show that the death penalty isn't evil. We don't sacrifice animals anymore, or label a woman clean because she's menstruating, but we do enforce the ten commandments. quote:In a way, yes. quote:Leviticus 20:13 quote:1 Corinthians 6:9-10 quote: quote:Revelation 22:18,19 quote:Mark 3:29 quote:Matthew 5:20 quote: [ Sunday, November 11, 2007 11:58: Message edited by: Excalibur ] -------------------- "On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and the tossing of the sea" Luke 21:25 Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 12:15
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Why is quoting the bible considered acceptable behavior in this, or any discussion? It certainly isn't something that is done in the business world, or really anywhere except in church groups. If your personal beliefs stem from that book, and you find yourself in disagreement, you can just say that you disagree. No need to explain your rationale, since the unbelievers will find it to be stupidly stupid. Not that you care, but I find myself losing respect for a person if they constantly rely on biblical quotes in order to justify their ethical or moral position. How about just saying "I feel it would be wrong to murder someone?" Kind of hard to debate feelings, although some people do try. -------------------- Synergy, et al - "I don't get it." Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted" Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 13:34
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AARRRGH! I agree with Salmon! If we're going to be having a discussion about religious mandates now, however, I figure I might as well post those of the only religion based on logic and empirical evidence, and also the coolest and tastiest religion out there. Of course I'm wearing an eyepatch right now, as it's an offense to His Noodliness the Flying Spaghetti Monster, pesto be upon him, to preach His religion while not dressed in pirate regalia. The FSM is not too petty though, so if you don't have full pirate regalia, an eyepatch or bandanna will suffice, and if you don't have one, you can make one out of paper or something. It's not really authentic but you have to make do with what you've got. Again, the center of our religious worship is at http://www.venganza.org . Therefore, avast, Excalibur! Those words are blasphemy! Here be the rules for ye to live by, not that hogwash! Here be the Eight I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts (there were originally ten but Captain Mosey dropped two, which partly accounts for our flimsy moral standards), as seen on pages 78 and 79 of The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster: quote:Ramen, my brothers and sisters! May you all live in peace, may you all feast on pasta, and may you all be touched by His Noodly Appendage! [ Sunday, November 11, 2007 13:34: Message edited by: The Almighty Do-er of Stuff ] -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 13:43
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quote:Damn. Now that was in Revelations. -------------------- Synergy, et al - "I don't get it." Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted" Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 8030
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 13:46
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- Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 14:13
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Nice spam post, Excalibur. That doesn't reinforce your points very well. Also, quote:I'd say that calling homosexuals evil and deserving of execution counts as hate speech against a certain group of people due to their sexual orientation, but I'm not a moderator, so take that as you will. [ Sunday, November 11, 2007 14:13: Message edited by: The Almighty Do-er of Stuff ] -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 14:31
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Toys -> Rape -> Death Penalty -> Bible -> Hate -> Lock Don't make it happen. —Alorael, who won't lock this topic. He will, however, suggest that the discussion move back to more wholesome things. Things like rape and execution, possibly? Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 14:59
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quote:Is that a special version of Babelfish? -------------------- Synergy, et al - "I don't get it." Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted" Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4826
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 15:19
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I don't want it. Where's the fun in a program that tells you how the topic will degenerate? -------------------- "Of course, not all technology is good. Some is exactly the opposite (bad)." — Dave Barry Posts: 458 | Registered: Friday, August 6 2004 07:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 15:37
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I don't think the Bible is authoritative. Therefore, please come up with a better rationale for the death penalty. Try something utilitarian, because those sorts of rationales tend to be based in reality. Otherwise, I have a bag of hammers I'd rather talk to. -------------------- In today’s America, there are more World of Warcraft players than farmers. Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Sunday, November 11 2007 21:20
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quote:I think 'enforcing the Ten Commandments' would obligate you as a Christian to attempt to kill any Hindus you ran across, if this argument holds water. quote:Leviticus 20:13 quote:The word translated to 'detestable' here connotes 'ritually unclean', and is never used in any other context. And considering what ritual uncleanliness involves - filth, emissions, self-restraint - well, you do the math here. It's something that suits homosexual sex perfectly. Making 'detestable' in a ritual sense into a death-worthy sin is ridiculous. quote:'Homosexual offenders' is a really weird translation. Every other one I've read, including the KJV - which was written before the social odium on homosexuality the modern Protestants forced into the Gospel - translated it as 'effeminate', with the concept generally revolving around 'feckless' or 'effete' - weak-willed, unwilling to behave as a man. quote:You missed my point, Excalibur. The modern evangelical practice of digging for random quotes to justify existing positions is deeply at odds with the historical use of Scripture and Scripture's basic consistency; there's a reason that in the Jewish community scriptural interpretation and theology are almost exclusively the province of highly trained divinity scholars. In mainline Protestant and Catholic denominations, most pastors have at least a bachelor's, often in divinity - and they seldom even think to take it on themselves to form on-the-fly religious jurisprudence. On the other hand, most of your evangelicals and hard-line protestants tend to have pastors hovering, on average, somewhere around a 10th-grade education. What you're doing is the province of people with a lot more learning than you, and pretending otherwise makes you a fool or a charlatan. I don't happen to believe in your holy book, but it makes itself very clear on the subject: Biblical jurisprudence is the province of experts. In short, Excalibur, to spell out the point that I missed - it's ironic you have such horrible things to say about Joseph Smith, because at least he could read parts of the Bible in the original Hebrew. I'm not vouching for the man; I'm just gently telling you you don't know a damn thing about what you're maundering on about. I'm going to give a little example of that later on. quote:First: 'this book' in that context is so self-evidently the apocalypse of John that, had you actually read it, you wouldn't have posted it as 'evidence'. And few people choose to add to Revelations, because it has little appeal to people not fixated on schizophrenic pseudo-Kabbalist numerology and to people who are it provides more than enough grist for the mill on its own. Second, 'the tree of Life' and 'the Holy City' are references that sailed past your head - we're talking Kabbalah, not the Gospel. I wouldn't feel too bad about it if I were you - most Christians don't tend to know that either. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if you've even read these things, Excalibur, because if you had - with the attention to detail they normally encourage in the fifth grade - they wouldn't work as arguments for you. quote:Judges 1:19 Yahweh was with the men of Judah as they took possession of the highlands; but they could not conquer the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots. quote:The Pharisees were excessively legalistic, banal, angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin sorts, and that's most of what gets railed against about them in the Bible. The problem with explaining that to you, obviously, is that you're not gonna listen to anything that isn't wrapped around violent hatred of various minorities. Ah well; what can you do. Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
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written Monday, November 12 2007 00:46
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Finally throwing my loose change in... 1. I do rather hope that these Aqua Dots get off the market quickly, as many people may miss the prelim warnings. 2. I heartily agree with Najosz (is that Alec? I've been lurking far too long...): the modern "toy" is far too complex and unipurpose to be for its own good. While I do like the creative idea behind these Aqua Dots, that you can create your own designs and such, and instantly lock it together, I think that a little bit of effort needs to be thrown into creatiity. I myself spent the majority of my early years with my little Fisher Price peoples' playset, some Micro Machines, legos, and a good deal of time with my Dad at his workbench. Incidentally, my own children will be getting Duplos and eventually Legos when they're old enough, if Lego keeps producing those assortment boxes. 3. I agree with Thuryl. Making penalties harsher won't change the fact that the clarity of circumstances for convicting are insufficient. I will further this point by saying that ramping up the ante will only be effective if you specify the offense... rape is too nebulous a form of crime to be countered by mere law. While it is indeed a horrid thing, people can make mistakes. And while they should be punished for them, we are all only human. 4. I agree with Slarty. The only way to elimiate rape or any other social stigma is to change the collective social conscience. And it may be impossible, but nothing is going to happen anyway if we don't try. Rape is horrid. And women have rights. And a rape is not their fault... that's why it's rape. And so on. The sooner society comes to the realization that sexual violation is a horrendous emotional crime that can be committed by anyone to anyone, the sooner the victims will feel strong enough despite violation to stand up and call out those who violated them. Social pressure does a whole heck of a lot more than legal pressure. 5. Excalibur, I will be sending you a PM shortly. Everyone else, Romans is a great read for learning how to apply the Mosaic Law in the era of grace, particularly chapters 2-4. 6. I missed the part where homosexuality came in. I also missed how the Ten Commandments lead to killing Hindus. Oh well. 7. I would like to correct the poster on the part about "effeminate" as quoted from 1 Corinthians 6. Historically speaking, if a Greek called a man "effeminate", that meant that he was physically the woman in the relationship. Anyone with training in Greek or Latin should know that. Furthermore, the closest translation we have for the word usually translated as "effeminate" is "freshly plowed" (thanks to TM for pointing that one out first). 8. On a purely personal note that I hope does not get discussed further, I would like to agree with Najosz (I swear, I should know who you are, and it's driving me crazy): Christians, particularly evangelicals, REALLY need to start getting into actually reading scripture, and in context. And looking at it academically, not just "as the Spirit sees fit". Being a Christian at a Christian college and still only knowing a handful of people who actually use their intellect when studying scripture, I could spam this forum to oblivion with my pure outrage with Christians in general on this particular issue. But spamming is bad, so I'll end that mini-tirade right here. 9. Ick. Eight legitimate points. This thread really has gotten off-track. -------------------- The Silent Assassin is Lord of the Dance. (break into festive bagpipe music here) -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, November 12 2007 04:35
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He is indeed Alec. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, November 12 2007 05:52
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quote:PWNT -------------------- The Noble and Ancient Order of Polaris - We're Not Yet Dead. Encyclopedia • Blades Forge • Archives • Stats • RSS (This Topic / Forum) • Blog • NaNoWriMo Did-chat thentagoespyet jumund fori is jus, hat onlime gly nertan ne gethen Firyoubbit 'obio.' Decorum deserves a whole line of my signature, and an entry in your bookmarks. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, November 12 2007 07:12
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When all is said and done, the Bible is a book. It may be literally true, as a disturbing number of latter-day interpreters assert, or not. It may be a divine work or not. But it's a book. Analysis of it is literary criticism. What other literary critics have the gall to assert that their understanding of the text is the One True Way? I know the lit crit debates can get heated, but they usually stick to "I'm right!" and "you're wrong!" without delving into "everyone who formulates any conceivable position other than mine is wrong!" —Alorael, who wishes he had the gumption to declare that he had received a new divine text in the form of Cliffs Notes for the Bible. Yes, God has acknowledged ambiguity and some errors in transcription and translation (the Bible as protein), and He has in His wisdom provided a new, clearer, and more succinct guide to goodness. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, November 12 2007 07:26
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He and She is not amoosed. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central "Making poorly-sourced claims is not the same as determining something." Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Monday, November 12 2007 09:16
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quote:I don't think he meant the Ten Commandments themselves, but rather enforcing them. -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, November 12 2007 09:48
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quote:The Ten Commandments only applies to Jews. Other religions fall under the 7 Noahic Laws given after the Flood. It's the Christian misinterpretation of what Jewish laws they wish to follow that leads to killing Hindus and others. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 10578
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written Monday, November 12 2007 15:14
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Excalibur is a great televangelist in the making. :rolleyes: Define "great." Lenar's style is much better. Yay, historical context!!! About time... :) -------------------- "We were meant to live for so much more. Have we lost ourselves?" - Switchfoot ---- My poetry Posts: 432 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2007 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Monday, November 12 2007 15:53
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quote:I'm pretty sure the Noahide laws also nail the Hindus - I think 'polytheism' is one of those universal offenses. Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Monday, November 12 2007 16:26
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quote:I don't have enough formal education to give rabbinical sources, but I've heard that whenever the Bible says "he shall surely die", the punishment is supposed to come from heavenly court. So if somebody decides to randomly start walking around killing Jews who break 10 commandments, or killing Hindus for breaking Noahide Laws, that person would be guilty not only of murder, but of blasphemy (deciding to pass yourself the judgment that should have been passed by the heavenly court). PS Talking about Jewish laws perverted by some Cristian sects, the only place Old Testament mentions homosexuality is the same part that includes dietary laws and other religious restrictions. However, for some reason there is no talk about a constitutional amendment against eating pork, and no states are passing laws that give criminal penalties for eating cheeseburgers. [ Monday, November 12, 2007 16:28: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Monday, November 12 2007 16:43
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re: the 'he shall surely die' thing: you're right there. But I'm fairly sure he was using that sort of language to justify use of the death penalty in an ideal judicial system - which is, uh, a little blasphemous, but hey. One of the more persistent habits of Protestants in general and evangelicals in specific is their coopting of random Jewish practices, and being fulsomely enthusiastic about the 'Jewish race' and so on. They call that 'philosemitism', and it's somewhat counterintuitive, but chances are fairly good it's actually at least as responsible for the Holocaust as anti-semitism. The only people in the intellectual mainstream defending the Jews from the Nazis' ridiculous propaganda didn't care about individual Jews much, but considered Jews in the aggregate some kind of theological instrument. Either which way, the Jews themselves weren't human - and they wound up being stripped of rights and murdered. It's difficult to treat someone as a human being with rights and privileges when you're thinking of them as part of a concept. If you haven't seen Rapture Ready, you definitely should. The lunatic fringe of the evangelical movement does a lot of weird things that people in a civilized society take the absence of for granted. Especially in an area like Israel politics, it's taken for granted a lot of the time by conservative Jews that evangelical support for Israel is a benign historical coincidence. And that... doesn't bear out so well, when you get right down to it. [ Monday, November 12, 2007 16:45: Message edited by: Najosz Thjsza Kjras ] Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |