The Sky Is Falling...?

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AuthorTopic: The Sky Is Falling...?
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #275
I'd suggest that if you see that the tone of my words overall is complaint, then that is your own projection. I'm pointing out an irony, curiosity, or hypocrisy as I observe it in the world around me. Perhaps I am more amused than anything else by all this. How do you know? Projection is rampant in the online world where we are reduced to typed words.

Six weeks inert is not long-dead, and what I posted was directly relevant to this thread. Long dead to me, is TM keeping a thread around for years to congratulate himself on his latest name change for himself.

-S-

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #276
I recently read Collapse by Jared Diamond, so let me present my thoughts by using one of its ideas. Basically, the book presented case studies of societies that damaged their environment and died out, plus a few examples of societies that halted the damage they were doing to the environment and survived. One of the reasons a society may collapse instead of change is due to an insulated elite. If the privileged have a way to escape from the damage--in the short term only!--then they have no incentive to change their ways. In the long run, they will suffer the consequences along with everyone else.

Due to globalization, the entire planet is one virtually one big society and Americans are an insulated elite. We can ship our discarded electronics to China and let the Chinese worry about the heavy metals and toxins inside them. If our water is bad, we can buy bottled water. If we erode our soil, we can afford fertilizer or buy food from elsewhere. But eventually it will catch up to us. Probably not as a total collapse, but in other ways. (Since you probably agree that environmental degradation has an enormous toll on our lives, health, and happiness, I'm not going to list examples unless you ask me to.)

Anyway, since we're so insulated, An Inconvenient Truth is meant to be a wake up call, to make (or continue to make) people look at the long-term and not the short-term. The specifics may not be perfect, but the underlying call for change is spot on. And if it scares some people in the process, well, I don't like it, but I'd rather have people be scared in theory than in reality.

And that's why your example of someone who moved inland for fear of sea level rising is rather absurd. Yes, it may be tragic. But that person or family had the ability to move. They could find a job inland. They had the money to buy a different house. They are in no risk of hunger or disease. In the scheme of things, they're not losing much. The corrected sea level rise is 40 cm in a century. That's 8 cm every 5 years. That may not seem like much here in America; just a few more houses on the immediate coastline washed out in storms, probably. But what will be the fate of the extremely low-lying and densely populated Bangladesh. I don't know, but if we are to be concerned about the people who move away from the coast for fear of sea level rise, then shouldn't we be concerned for the Bangladeshi too?

That's just an example, and nothing we can do about it, but if An Inconvenient Truth or similar activism can change the way we look at the planet, can make us live a little wiser, then we have the potential to avert future disasters. And I think that's the underlying goal--to change people--of this documentary, not whether the ice caps melt or not.

PS: Dikiyoba found Dikiyoba's link by reading your second link. You'll note both sources originally gave eleven errors, instead of nine. It seems people aren't capable of getting a single number right 100% of the time. It's certainly not a good thing that Al Gore got some things wrong in his documentary, but out of all the facts and opinions he had to sort through to make it, it's not surprising. For instance, "climate change makes hurricanes worse" was already common speculation before the movie, at least in Dikiyoba's life. So while we do need to be wary, we can't dismiss things so easily.

Edit: Typos.

[ Thursday, November 01, 2007 18:39: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ]

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Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #277
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

How many people now live in dread about the doomed future of their once celebrated home by the ocean they hoped to pass of to future generations, or has been a family homestead for generations?
Um, zero. You're being ridiculous.

quote:
I spent my whole childhood in a degree of dread about the end of the world soon to come based on stuff in the Revelation, thanks to the foolish beliefs of those around me, as I was growing up.
Not everyone has been as blatantly indoctrinated as you. Not everyone belongs to your demographic group. Maybe you're just easy to indoctrinate, which is your fault, not the fault of whoever said anything that you happened to overhear and therefore believe.

quote:
Who said this discussion should be taken seriously? Serious is tedious, tra la la.
Good to know that your points are as spurious as they appear to be.

quote:
But I did have a serious point made in a seemingly absurd context.
Unless your serious point was that Godwin's Law is valid, your means of making it was enough to undermine any conceivable point you could have made.

[ Thursday, November 01, 2007 19:51: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #278
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

I'd suggest that if you see that the tone of my words overall is complaint, then that is your own projection. I'm pointing out an irony, curiosity, or hypocrisy as I observe it in the world around me. Perhaps I am more amused than anything else by all this. How do you know? Projection is rampant in the online world where we are reduced to typed words.
If you think words cannot convey quite clearly, I invite you to read more. If you think your words aren't conveying quite clearly, I invite you to look at the way everyone else has regarded them in context. You're delivering a tone, intentionally or not. If you don't want that tone, you need to work harder on another one.

—Alorael, who has no trouble believing you're amused. The tone of your amusement isn't at all lighthearted, though.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #279
Alorael: Hmm, just how many people is everyone? Are you their spokesman? It is possible to be any number of things at once. My amusement in this context is wry amusement mixed with disgust and a half dozen other things. I freely shift from any one to another in the moment. I think people online often tend to paint others in broad strokes, and miss a lot of variation or nuance once they get a picture of you in their head, having never met you. Meanwhile, In the biggest context, I am not worried at all about what Al Gore or anyone is doing, nor afraid for us or the planet (even if we do virtually blot ourselves off it,) but that's one of those paradoxes that doesn't bear elaboration here.

Dikiyoba: Okay. Nicely communicated. I am very much onboard with the idea that we are on the brink of ruining our environment and truly need to make dramatic changes to give ourselves a future, at the cost of much personal sacrifice if need be. I am not convinced that changing our climate is one of those things we have much to do with, or the most concerning thing happening to this planet, but we might end up focusing on it to the near exclusion and bankruptcy of more immediately pressing matters.

Kel: Whatever. The usual disconnect. Indoctrinating children is one of the easiest and most prevalent things done on the planet. Do you imagine you, or virtually anyone, is excluded from these processes? It's what we do.

-S-

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #280
FLUFFYKITTENKILLER!

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
"Making poorly-sourced claims is not the same as determining something."
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #281
IMAGE(http://www.caroline-dorchestercountyfair.org/images/billy_goat_eating_grass_hc.gif)

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My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art
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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #282
Originally by Synergy:

quote:
Dikiyoba: Okay. Nicely communicated. I am very much onboard with the idea that we are on the brink of ruining our environment and truly need to make dramatic changes to give ourselves a future, at the cost of much personal sacrifice if need be. I am not convinced that changing our climate is one of those things we have much to do with, or the most concerning thing happening to this planet, but we might end up focusing on it to the near exclusion and bankruptcy of more immediately pressing matters.
But why are you (since this conversation resumed, at least) displaying so much skepticism for global warming without balancing it with the discussion of environmental problems that you want people to focus on? If global warming isn't important, then tell me what is important. If Al Gore is wrong and global warming isn't real, why shouldn't I go back to business as usual?

Dikiyoba.

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Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #283
Synergy, you are coming across as somebody who is just trolling for a fight. Especially with comments like the following:
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

...
quote:
Hitler had his minions develop policies to deal with idiots in their world, but I can't say I like the results.
And now you've proven that this discussion cannot be taken seriously.
Who said this discussion should be taken seriously? Serious is tedious, tra la la. It’s just a discussion with nothing more at stake than anyone chooses to put there — perhaps ego, let’s say. ...

First you post a bunch of inflammatory rhetoric (you can't get much more inflammatory than random Hitler comparisons), then you say "chill, dude" when people are offended, and then you are surprised why nobody takes you seriously. If you are looking for a kindergarten-style exchange of insults, you can certainly find it, but don't be surprised if people start automatically hitting "Page Down" when they see your name next to a post.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #284
Zeviz, It doesn't matter to me one bit who pays me any attention or not. Nor is it even "important." This thread is not "important." This forum is not "important." I engage the dialog I choose and controversy, because I enjoy talking about such things, and gauging the perceptions of others on various things. It's not "serious" business, and it's not "important." I say what I mean, and I try not to play games, but I don't take myself or anyone else here "seriously." I made my Hitler comment with absolute sincerity. Any person here could have been a tyrant, a killer, a pimp, a prostitute under the necessary circumstances. Don't fool yourself to think you are inherently incapable.

Derisive attitudes towards those we consider stupider or less worthy or inferior to ourselves is the exact same energy that at extreme fuels genocides. You find this statement controversial? I stand by my statement. I'm not saying Kel is like Hitler. I'm saying I found his attitude towards the "idiots" of the world disturbing. Quality is more significant to me than quantity. Attitude is quality. How far we run with it is the quantity. I do take issue when I witness conceit toward the underdogs of the world, so yeah, I feel some outrage when I see it. It's definitely one of my buttons, and I'm not apologizing for it for one second. Kel's a fine, and reasonable man overall, but it pissed me off to see that attitude expressed.

Based on your opinion of my dialoging style, am I right in assuming that I can expect to not see you posting in response to my posts in the future? Not that it is at all "important" either way.

Diki - Global warming is real. That was never the debate. A lot of the earlier content of this thread was focusing on alternate explanations for what is actually causing it. ADDIT: This thread is about global warming, not environmentalism. My interest here is limited to that topic, though I am concerned about the way humanity is pooping in its own nest to the degree it will soon be unfit to inhabit.

-S-

[ Friday, November 02, 2007 13:42: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #285
My point was simply that the fact that some people are damn fools cannot itself be blamed on Albert A. Gore. With respect to the phrasing, as noted above, blame the uncharitable sentiment on general irritation.

But damn it, Synergy, you can't have it both ways: either you care about this discussion (in which case your flippant attitude with respect to what you've written and how people read it is fake) or you don't (in which case you shouldn't be getting pissed off in the first place).

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #286
Did UBB eat the tail of this thread? Anything past page 8 appears to be gone. If so, it was meant to be.

-S-

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #287
Yeah, and kudos to Drakey for snipping and fixing it.

What happened was that Stillness showed up, I threatened to shoot some seals, and his response killed the thread. It was epic.

I still need to go out and kill some seals.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted"
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #288
Wait a minute...If the order of events is 1 I showed up and 2 you responded, how is it that my response killed the thread?

Edit: Lemme guess. You are killing seals to balance for the loss in polar bears?

[ Saturday, November 03, 2007 03:12: Message edited by: Stillness ]
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #289
Maybe a mod should lock this topic, to "preserve" the "fine" "discussion."

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
"Making poorly-sourced claims is not the same as determining something."
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #290
quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

Wait a minute...If the order of events is 1 I showed up and 2 you responded, how is it that my response killed the thread?
You responded to his response. It was that response that killed the thread, you thread-killer.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #291
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

You responded to his response.
No I didn't. I never saw his response. I do have to be honest and say that I saw a white screen after I posted and the thread started behaving oddly which made me think I was the culprit. But now one has to wonder if seals aren't all he's after. Hide your threads!

EDIT: I'll leave you all with the proof Salmon didn't want you to see that humans are behind global warming:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EDIP71Lviys

[ Saturday, November 03, 2007 10:03: Message edited by: Stillness ]
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #292
I will consider this disruption by the climate gods to be a mercy killing, but I see I missed some further drama and twists in the meantime. I only had saved page 11 out of the missing 9-12 on my computer. UBB really is a treacherous beast on longer threads that have a gap of time in them later on, it would appear. I won't do that again. My apologies.

-S-

P.S. Does anyone have saved webpages for the original page 8, 9, 10, and 12?

[ Saturday, November 03, 2007 13:20: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #293
It is absurd to suggest that these anecdotal episodes of thread destruction, even if they do represent a long-term trend, can possibly have been caused be the actions of any of us puny humans, insignificant as we are in comparison with the vastness of UBB.

In fact, I hereby propound the Gaea Hypothesis of UBB. Far from being an inert engine, UBB has a mysterious synergetic wisdom. It knows what it needs, and takes accordingly.

Sometimes it needs threads, or at least parts of them, to enrich the soil from which new threads will spring. Apparently, just now it needed a few pages of this stuff. So we should not mourn or complain.

And definitely not taunt.

[ Saturday, November 03, 2007 14:58: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ]

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
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ZOMG! Climate change is killing the UBB!!!!!!1!

Edit - Thanks for the link Stillness, further proof that blue hats cause climate change, while not strictly necessary, is always welcomed.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted"
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #295
It strikes me as odd that Aran's PPP4 also erased the part of the archive that was erased here. Conspiracies within conspiracies! This is also to be blamed for any double posting or mysterious editing that may happen. Or not. ... You decide.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted"
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #296
I don't generally like bumping topics, but I like that Synergy has gotten tired of pretending to know physics and medicine and has moved on to pretending to know climatology. Perhaps next he'll pretend to know economics and tell us about how welfare creates a disincentive to work and most black mothers have children so they can drive Cadillacs. Or maybe he'll pretend to know history and tell us the Holocaust was a big ol' myth perpetrated by the Elders of Zion, albeit a useful one because friendship with the world-dominating Jewish people holds the key to God's blessing. Any which way, his evidently inescapable compulsion to traduce science with his ridiculous, debased scholarship in contrarian buncombe makes him pretty entertaining.

I love this guy. He's so wrong about everything of substance; it's like he couldn't be right if he wanted to. And he's ostensibly got a decade on me, which I suspect he spent landing on his head.

[ Monday, November 12, 2007 11:55: Message edited by: Najosz Thjsza Kjras ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #297
Evidently this is the reason that topic-locking exists.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #298
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Salmon:

It strikes me as odd that Aran's PPP4 also erased the part of the archive that was erased here. Conspiracies within conspiracies! This is also to be blamed for any double posting or mysterious editing that may happen. Or not. ... You decide.
It wasn't erased. My mirroring spider just does not take into account that the topic length can decrease if a topic is destroyed. When it crawled the boards to see if the "last post" date changed (indicating a new post), it also updated the length, which went down to 205. This caused the deleted pages to drop from view.

What is scary is that the post ids (which are normally permanent) dropped. If you delete a post, you get a gap in the numbers. This time, we're reusing ids that were already used. 193 to 204 (this post) have been used twice.

Fortunately, my spider declined to overwrite the old posts with these new ones - not sure why; possibly a bug or a formatting error. The database still has the original posts, up to 285 by Kelandon.

I will have to ensure, after locking this thread, that the rest of the thread is also archived, receiving new numbers.

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