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Ever bought someone a Spiderweb game as a gift? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, September 11 2007 09:30 Profile Homepage #4
quote:
Originally written by Ming:

...
I know the site says "no prior Geneforge experience required", but are there a lot of inside references in Geneforge 4 that he'll miss?
...
Just like with Exile/Avernum trilogy, the games of Geneforge series take place in the same universe, but in a different setting. So each game could be played on its own, although you can appreciate references to previous games only if you have actually played them. On the other hand, since the Geneforge games have multiple different endings, if you had reached the ending opposite from the one assumed by the following games, you might be a little annoyed. So it's really up to you.

[ Tuesday, September 11, 2007 09:32: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
noob info in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, September 10 2007 22:36 Profile Homepage #90
Now we'll have to kill you.

(PS Ming, in case you haven't figured out by now, Alorael is the person to whom you were replying. He was so secretive about his age that people began making up random numbers, which eventually evolved into a joke about a Korean transvestite pedophile living in Alaska.)

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded. Something like that anyway. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, September 9 2007 16:36 Profile Homepage #106
If the rest of the chapters maintain the same quality, I don't mind waiting a week for each of them. :)

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Is this "SubTerra"? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Saturday, September 8 2007 21:51 Profile Homepage #7
quote:
Originally written by Ming:

...
I also found this "Galactic Core" game, but only through a Google search, that must be the Richard White games: Galactic Core, Lost Souls, and Ocean Bound (not sure if these were all offered here or not).
...
Seems like you can still download the demo but can't order it. Chromite Software also seems to be a dead link.
...
You probably can still buy the games from Spidweb. At least some people bought some of them relatively recently. However, almost everybody says that the games aren't worth buying anyway.

As for SubTerra, it's now free, and is definitely worth downloading if you like puzzle games.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
noob info in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, September 7 2007 17:04 Profile Homepage #80
quote:
Originally written by Jewel:

Ok, shorter list... but I like the rules that show the culture of our community (ie. Alo with his sniper rifle) so it'll probably be more then 20 long.

*goes to weed more*

Edit:
Down to 47. Only 16 are 'do not's and I think half of those are based on humor.

I really would hate to take out anything else...

*flashes sad puppy dog eyes for approval*
Much better now. :)

Although I still prefer Ash's version of your rule #28. (I mean rule #43 in the original list.) :P

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
What are you learning right now? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, September 7 2007 17:00 Profile Homepage #54
quote:
Originally written by Sticky:

...
Odd, cause I always get 'Oh, so you have to go to grad school to even hope for a job' on the physics degree, which isn't quite true, but on the career level it is.

What B.A/B.S. does send you straight into a job these days though? R.N. I guess, business sometimes, and maybe journalism people?
Also, most engineering degrees. At least in fields like computer "science" and electrical engineering, BS or MS are enough for most jobs.

You generally need Phd for research jobs, and since almost all jobs in astronomy, physics, and other basic sciences are research related, you need advanced degrees for them.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
What are you learning right now? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, September 6 2007 19:29 Profile Homepage #40
Since my previous post sounded a bit harsh, let me clarify that I don't consider jobs like tech support and construction to be inferior to engineering jobs. All I am saying is that a university degree has different value in different fields.

Different kinds of jobs require different kinds of education: for manual jobs, your experience is the main thing that matters, with certification required in some areas. For jobs like a network administrator, you often need a lot of certificates. For the engineering jobs, the amount of "basic" knowledge required can't be covered by a short class, so a university degree serves the same purpose as certification for a plumber or an IT technician. The degree alone can't get you a job, but it sure helps, and is often required.

It all depends on what kind of work you want to get after college. (Note that nowhere do I mention my opinion about value of "liberal arts" degrees. :) )

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
What are you learning right now? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, September 6 2007 18:38 Profile Homepage #37
quote:
Originally written by macdude22:

If I may make a suggestion to all the budding university students out there. Study what you want, don't succumb to the my parents say I should do this or well I need to do that to get a career BS.

...

What do I do? I'm a tech guru at a small private college.
...
The problem with your advice is that for most jobs in the engineering, medical, and many other fields, a university degree is a requirement if you don't want your resume to go straight into garbage can.

You can major in underwater basket-weaving and still get a job as a "tech guru" or a building contractor. However, you wouldn't be able to get a job as a circuit designer or a civil engineer without the right degree.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Spiderweb Archives? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, September 6 2007 14:52 Profile Homepage #10
quote:
Originally written by An Iffy Shaped Milk Bottle:

There is no way to view them?
Enjoy: http://web.archive.org/web/20011205084001/http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi

Only a couple of actual topics are still in archive, but if people view them often enough they might not get purged.

Which reminds me:
Aran, do you have any plans to archive the older threads still available in waybackmachine? They do remove old pages with time, so every time I look for them (once in a few years :P ) there are fewer threads there.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
noob info in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Wednesday, September 5 2007 13:38 Profile Homepage #66
quote:
Originally written by Jewel:

Edit: The list is updated. The order is still up in the air for many especially those lower on the list, and I'm 20 short of my goal. Suggestions after Zeviz's list have yet to be considered.

400
I am sorry to say, but after reading the updated list I have to agree with Salmon's complaint. The original list was obviously silly. My list tried to maintain the silly mood while keeping only serious information. But cutting all the silliness out, and merging the two together makes an overly-harsh sounding list. Just take a look at new rules 2 through 6. Putting this at the top of the list and repeating the same thing several times, makes Jeff sound like a terrible dictator who bans people that look at him wrong way. (Yes, I remember the Ash incident, but that was a single incident in the 6 year history of these boards. Most regular members will never talk to Jeff directly anyway.)

So I'd suggest at least removing all redundant rules and reordering the list to start with more humorous-but-serious things like the 1337 speak rule, rather than "obey the admins. Rule #5 is an example of the ones that really should go, because it creates a false impression. I've seen boards where any criticism of the company tends to mysteriously disappear, along with the members who posted it, and that rule makes Spidweb sound like such a board. (In fact, that whole CoC makes Spidweb sound like a rather unpleasant place.)

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
What are you learning right now? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Wednesday, September 5 2007 13:10 Profile Homepage #3
quote:
Originally written by Dintiradan:

CMPUT 301 Introduction to Software Engineering
CMPUT 304 Algorithms II
CMPUT 366 Intelligent Systems
PHIL 365 Philosophy of Computing
PSYCO 258 Cognitive Psychology
Looks like after the failure of Teh Deth Ray, our resident evil overlord decided to work on a mind control device instead. :)

PS I had similar curriculum in college, but with less psychology and philosophy and more hardware and systems classes.

[ Wednesday, September 05, 2007 13:11: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
To whom it may concern. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Wednesday, September 5 2007 13:05 Profile Homepage #8
Looks like this is turning into a survey, so...

1. You are not worthy of beholding the awsomeness of PPP archive, unless you can read them through lynx.

2. I can demonstrate Ed's presumed "hacking" techniques ... just give me your login name and password. :P

3. Yes, everybody here has been killed multiple times by armies of noobs, friendly fire, etc.

4. Yes. The best methods include, but are not limited to:
a) Don't have any.
b) Use stick figure cartoons to distract them.
c) Be the master of the turtle pit.

PS If you wanted boring real answers, just read Alorael's post.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Worst product name ever in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, August 31 2007 16:43 Profile Homepage #26
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Sarcasmon:

I guess mine flew right over your head, man.
You mean like ... people in ... South Africa ... who like ... read these boards without ... without a computer or a sence of humor and ... and in Iraq didn't get our values and your jokes?

Or were you asking whether people got your reference to LA riots?

[ Friday, August 31, 2007 16:45: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
noob info in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, August 31 2007 16:37 Profile Homepage #29
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Sarcasmon:

How about a list of positive aspects of the boards. I'm sick to death of seeing all this crap about what a person shouldn't do, when it would be a heck of a lot nicer to see positive examples.
I was just summarizing the original list. (Mainly I was just very bored at work. :P ) The rules do tend to focus on the punishments. That's just the nature of rules. However, if you have a list of positive examples, it would be good too.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
noob info in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, August 31 2007 14:43 Profile Homepage #25
I've tried to summarize the serious parts of the list in a fun way and came up with the following. Not sure if you want to use it in addition to/instead of the original thread, but here it is:

1. Leave your sanity at the door.*

2. While it is not necessary to continually maintain the level of discourse appropriate for instructional process at a major academic institution, if u rite like this or use teh 1337 u'll be laft of teh boardz and teh intrawebz.

3. All gimmicks should be considered the property of their current users and stolen at your own risk. Potential penalties for violation include, but are not limited to sniping, mocking, unfavorable portrayal in forum fiction, and spontaneous combustion.

4. While exact Spidweb pantheon is subject to debates and holy wars, Jeff Vogel (Member #1, Spidweb) is undisputed supreme god for the following reasons:
- He has created these forums.
- He has the power to destroy these forums.
- He sets the rules to guide us and the laws to judge us.
- He sets moderators to watch over us.
- He smites all those who challenge his authority, banishing them from existence.

5. Members number 2, 3, 6, and 7 are all immediate agents of Jeff and their decrees should be treated with proper respect.

6. Do not start a new thread for a subject that was recently discussed.

7. Do not post in a thread that is too old.

8. If the combination of rules 6 and 7 above is preventing you from discussing certain subjects you can pray to Richard White, Chthulhu, or some other resident deity for guidance. Or just use your best judgment.

9. Do not feed the trolls. (Unless you enjoy being troll food.)

10. If you are easily offended, don't get involved in political, religious, philosophical, or any other kind of discussion, debate, argument, or conversation. (This is the internet, after all, even if we try to maintain a civil environment.)

11. Like every good bridge, this place has its trolls. Don't try to emulate them. Even the most prominent of them sometimes get banned, and you don't have any Get out of Jail Free cards yet.

12. Using these boards as a chatroom, starting posting games, or spamming (unless it's very funny) are reliable ways to get a custom title. Unfortunately that custom title is "Canned".

13. If the custom title of "Canned" is not sufficient for you, you can continue the behaviors that earned it and you'll be upgraded to "Banned".

14. Most other custom titles are bestowed by Drakey on those he finds worthy while he is sufficiently drunk. Asking for a custom title is the best way to make sure you'll never get one. (Just look at Alorael.)

15. Making "in before the lock" posts, starting threads about karma, or starting excessively frequent postcount celebrations will give you as much popularity as wearing a chunk of moldy cheese on your head.

16. Reading the entire thread before you post, while not strictly required, is a good way to avoid looking like a fool.

17. The UBB software that runs these forums has a short attention span. Posting complete works of literature in a single thread causes the board to forget that the thread ever existed. Regular threads that reach about 20 pages of long posts also stretch the board's patience, causing some pages to disappear.

18. Intentionally using the board's peculiar memory described above to destroy threads is a good way to get a custom title "Banned".

19. There are also ways to annoy individual members to get fun retribution (like being stubbed by mechanical pencil, or sniped), but I'll let those members renew their threats themselves.

20. Any "top 10" type of list is guaranteed to grow to at least 100 entries. :P

* - Neither Spiderweb Software, nor its employees, minions, or pet tarantulas are in any way affiliated with this list, and should not be held responsible for any incidental, consequential, coincidental, or sequential damages that might result from following the advice herein.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
[PPP] Search function redux in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, August 30 2007 22:03 Profile Homepage #4
Is this going to become a "find your oldest post in PPP archive" thread? (I am not objecting, just asking.)

On topic, Aran, could you connect PPP with endeavor database to get the post context on the day they were posted. (You are getting current member names, but it would be even better to get the member names, locations, and custom titles from the closest available snapshot in endeavor, or the information you got when parsing through original archives, whichever is more current.) This would present the posts as closely as possible to the way they appeared when posted.

And talking about endeavor database, could you include a feature for looking up all archived PDNs for a certain member number. That would be very helpful for looking up random members who seem to have been active before, but whom I can't recognize based on profile alone.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Maddness or Genius??? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, August 30 2007 21:54 Profile Homepage #14
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

As an alternate idea, perhaps there is no correlation between geniuses and madness. Perhaps there are just a lot more people out there with mental health problems than commonly realized and we are just more likely to know about the problems of geniuses than we are of average people because geniuses get so much more exposure than average people.
I don't remember the exact list of insane famous people, but most of the mental problems in it weren't the kinds of things that could be easily missed in an average person. It's true that some mental problems might be more common than expected, but there might also be a connection between genius and madness. I've also heard bits of a radio show about it, and they've mentioned some artists who couldn't write any songs while they were on anti-depressants, but had severe problems when they stopped taking medication, to the point of one of them killing himself. So at least in that case the creativity seemed to be directly related to insanity.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded. Something like that anyway. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, August 30 2007 21:48 Profile Homepage #48
quote:
Originally written by Atheosking:

quote:
Originally written by Drythentor:

I don't think I made it. I've hardly been active recently. Ah, well.
And you are? :P
Look at his signature. Only one member has posted homemade cat comics here recently. (I am using "Recently" somewhat loosely.) Not being recognized looks like a common penalty for changing PDNs.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Worst product name ever in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, August 30 2007 13:16 Profile Homepage #14
Maybe the people naming this product had the right marketing idea: Instead of trying to break into the oversaturated high tech market in places like California, they are going for the underserved demographic in the deep south. How many high tech companies actually try to market specifically to KKK members? :P

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Man or God in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, August 30 2007 13:09 Profile Homepage #33
quote:
Originally written by John Q. Random:

...
I know a few people who have found religion, although not fundamentalism, but I know a few more people who have lost their faith. The average person seems to act on inertia, judging by the fact that most people maintain the religion they're born into, and there are a few outliers who switch.
...
I've actually had the opposite experience in college: A large proportion of the people going to Orthodox servicies were rased secular, Reform, or Conservative. And many Orthodox kids became a lot less religious in college. It might be that college is the time of change, so I saw a disproportionate number of people changing, but it seems to me that people are more likely to resist things they've been taught as children and at least try the opposite way of life for themselves. It could be that after college all of these people went back to their original belief systems, but I don't think so.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
noob info in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, August 30 2007 08:50 Profile Homepage #15
If we are updating the list, here is a very necessary one:

104. No matter how obvious the joke, some people will take it seriously.

PS Any copy of this list needs to include the whole thread, because many jokes make sence only in their original context.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Maddness or Genius??? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, August 30 2007 08:36 Profile Homepage #10
There does seem to be a connection between unusual mental ability and mental health problems. I don't remember the list, but it seems that a lot of famous people had some sort of mental health problem ranging from clinical insanity like the one described in the movie "A Beautiful Mind" to depression leading to suicide (Alan Turing) to messed up personal life (Einstein). Van Gough is just another example of this. According to a biography I've read, he didn't just randomly cut off his ear, but he showed all symptoms of insanity that got progressively worse (seeing things that weren't there, etc.)

There might even be some types of metal problems common for certain types of great people. For example, a large proportion of famous poets were so depressed that they killed themselves. Many political leaders are paranoid, etc.

I am not sure why there is this correlation between genius and insanity. Perhaps it takes a broken mind to come up with something that is far enough out of the ordinary to be considered "genius".

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded. Something like that anyway. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, August 27 2007 11:49 Profile Homepage #37
Very nice story, as usual. :)

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Educational Segregation in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, August 27 2007 11:46 Profile Homepage #23
That's a good point about American high school diploma being the lowest common denominator.
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

...
I'm curious how the Russian system works now, and how the Soviet system used to work.

The American system is a one-size-fits-all high school diploma. So the minimum requirements to obtain it are comparatively low. The maximum amount of education that one can obtain in an American high school is considerably higher.
In Russia the last two grades are also optional and you can go to trade school instead. They've also transitioned from 10 to 11 year system in late 80s/early 90s, expanding first 3 years to 4. (And starting at 6, rather than 7 years old.)

So you can either go to a trade school after 9th grade (8th under old system), or go to university after 11th grade (10th under old system).

However, there are also public "kindergardens" that start from around age 3 and go until school at age 6. (Both parents work in Russia/USSR, so there had to be an institution to take care of children.) Unlike American kindergardens, Russian ones don't teach reading and writing, but I assume they still help start kids' development earlier.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Educational Segregation in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, August 27 2007 11:05 Profile Homepage #19
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Sarcasmon:

...
quote:
One of the biggest problems is that American schools are run the same way as medieval universities, with each teacher the complete master of their classroom, protected by a tenure and only loosely guided by state education requirements. A system like that relies on each teacher being a brilliant educator, capable of developing a curriculum, making up good tests (a skill that takes years to master), keeping the students' attention, oh, and perhaps even teaching the material. Teachers like this do exist, but there will never be enough of them to fill every class in every school, no matter how much you pay.
I have no idea what school system you are describing. It wasn't that way when I went to school, and isn't remotely like that in the school district where I currently reside.
I was under the impression that all American teachers are expected to make their own tests and lesson plans. I also heard that the concept of "tenure", developed to allow university professors to criticize the government, is applied in America to protect math and science teach who don't care about their students or the subjects they teach. Please correct me if this isn't the case.

quote:
quote:
The solution that top education systems in the world have come up with is to have curriculum designed by professionals. You can't staff each classroom with a brilliant educator capable of making good lesson plans and fair tests that don't have to be graded on a curve, but you can find enough of them for a curriculum development commission. This is the approach taken by Russia and, I think, other countries with top school systems.
This is the system that Oregon is leaning toward, with centrally developed curricula and testing schema. It sucks. It ignores that different students have different needs, and punishes students, teachers, and districts when they veer from the pre-set goals of the "head in the clouds" curricula developers.
In reality, there are very few teachers who can do better than the pre-designed curriculum. (And if that is the case, they should be helping design a better one.) However, if these teachers can prove that their curriculum works better, they should be allowed to use it.

quote:
quote:
As for the results of the two approaches: coming from an 8th grade in a good Russian school, my math level had matched at least 11th grade in a very good American school, and science level was also a couple grades ahead of my counterparts in an equally good American school. (It's harder to compare science level directly, because in Russia Chemistry, Physics, etc. are taught simultaneously, instead of teaching Physics in 9th grade, chemistry in 10th, etc.)
In 11th grade I was taking Pre-Calc, Trig, AP Physics and AP Biology, AP English, and History of the Ancient World. I find it incredible that Russian children are taught those subjects 3 years prior. My high school was public, and the only one I was eligible to attend.
When entering high school, I was placed into pre-Calculus, was able to take AP Physics without taking regular one, and was pretty bored by regular Chemistry. I also had known (although largely forgotten) names, locations on map, and capitals of all countries of the world, and had had several years of history, including world history (which probably included most of things covered by American ancient history class). In literature, I would have been expected to read War and Peace in 9th or 10th grade in Russia. To be fair, I went to a good school in Moscow, so an average school in a remote province would obviously have much lower standard. However, I've found a good school in San Francisco Bay Area to have curriculum similar to the one you've described.

quote:
quote:
PS As for original question of separating students by ability, it's hard to strike the right balance between every single student being forced to adhere to the same curriculum (Russian approach) and nobody being challenged to show any effort (American approach). The right answer is somewhere in between, but I don't know where.
I don't see that as the American approach. My teachers challenged me, and other students, every day. 20+ years later I see teachers still challenging students to bring forth their best. I find it disheartening that your view is so dismal, when I see hope, despite the many challenges faced by a publicly funded education system.
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In all the American schools I've seen, you can graduate high school knowing only the most basic math (addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, perhaps with a few "advanced" topics like percentages). You also can gradute taking only a couple basic science classes and remedial English. I wouldn't call that "challenging students".

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