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Nethergate Owners in Nethergate
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #4
Nethergate was the first Spiderweb game I ever came across. I downloaded the demo from some demo-download website or other in May 2001, and practically spent all my time playing it for several days. When I came upon the Shareware Barrier, I unhesitatingly registered it, as I just had to play the rest of it. It's easily Jeff Vogel's masterpiece, and indeed is probably the best game I've ever played. In fact I like it so much, I'm tempted to send Jeff extra money every now and then just out of appreciation. Instead, though, I just buy every game of his that comes out, which are all quite good but only Avernum 1 and Geneforge 1 have come close to matching its quality.

PS — I'm a bit puzzled by the "quite short" comment. I spent just about the same amount of time playing through Nethergate all the way as I did with massive games like Avernum 3. You really have to play it through twice, once as Celts and once as Romans, to play the whole game.

[ Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:11: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
How do we pronounce... in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #15
Mine is pronounced "IK shee" with the emphasis on the "IK."

This is a shortening of the full name Icshicoath, which is pronounced "ik shih KOE ath" with the emphasis on "KOE."

This topic reminds me of some of the upperclass English surnames that are so messed up it's impossible to guess how they're pronounced—you either know how to say them, or you don't. Featherstonehaugh being pronounced "Fanshaw" for instance. (An exaggerated example created by P.G. Wodehouse, unless I'm much mistaken, but there are some reason English surnames that are about that bad!)

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
I can't pick things up? But I'm not encumbered. in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #7
Yes, my day count in Geneforge 3 was bumped up like nobody's business because I had several drop spots on the various islands, and could never remember where I put that Shaped Blade or Demon's Bile, so I spent a lot of time wandering around —

"Is this the right town? No, but there's some nice stuff here I had piled up that I can sell... Oh look, here's a Wand of the Inferno! I didn't even know I'd come across one of those. And lookee here, another magic spike thing! I love these! Why on earth did I leave this *here* of all places?"

—Repeat for 15 days...
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
I can't pick things up? But I'm not encumbered. in Geneforge
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #7
Yes, my day count in Geneforge 3 was bumped up like nobody's business because I had several drop spots on the various islands, and could never remember where I put that Shaped Blade or Demon's Bile, so I spent a lot of time wandering around —

"Is this the right town? No, but there's some nice stuff here I had piled up that I can sell... Oh look, here's a Wand of the Inferno! I didn't even know I'd come across one of those. And lookee here, another magic spike thing! I love these! Why on earth did I leave this *here* of all places?"

—Repeat for 15 days...

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Good ol' Sucia Island in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #6
Geneforge 1 is a real classic in every sense of the word.

In retrospect, probably the best thing about the first game is how much it encapsulated with minimal story elements. It showed the player so much by showing so little, giving you both an insider's and outsider's view of Shaper society without actually depicting it, but by letting you explore the ruins of their handiwork. This always fires the imagination more than a detailed first-person exploration of a living and breathing Shaper colony, such as we encountered in a limited way in Geneforge 2 and then fully in 3.

It showed traditional Shaper procedures, and then the introduction of a "rogue" element in the form of Danette's Geneforge project. And then outsiders come along, see the injustice of Shaper tradition, and decide to use that rogue element to rectify Shaper injustice. And you're thrown in the middle and get to choose how to influence events.

Pure classic. I'm almost—almost, mind you—sorry that such a game was followed by sequels. The sequels added their own variations on this theme, and carried it through pretty well, though neither equaled the first in terms of originaltiy, impact, and overall story quality.. But future games in the series will have to work very hard to get up to the first game's very high standards.

I think after I'm done playing Geneforge 3 through again, I may go back and play the first game one more time. I've played through the first one about three or four times, since it's so good.

The best thing that could happen, in my opinion, in a Geneforge 4 is for the Shapers to split into sects, arguing over how many of their "barred" experiements—including the Geneforge—should be used in fighting their war with Ghaldring. They're loosing the war, and are desperate for anything that'll give them an edge. (My character at the end of the third game was all souped-up on canisters yet fighting for the Shapers, and I wasn't just tolerated by most other Shapers for my artificial abilties but valued for them, and this shows that the schism is already starting.) That would bring the real moral dilemma absent especially in Geneforge 3. Should they use the powers that enabled their enemy to appear in order to defeat that enemy? Will using such knowledge and powers cause them to become just like the enemy they hate so much?
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Good ol' Sucia Island in Geneforge
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #6
Geneforge 1 is a real classic in every sense of the word.

In retrospect, probably the best thing about the first game is how much it encapsulated with minimal story elements. It showed the player so much by showing so little, giving you both an insider's and outsider's view of Shaper society without actually depicting it, but by letting you explore the ruins of their handiwork. This always fires the imagination more than a detailed first-person exploration of a living and breathing Shaper colony, such as we encountered in a limited way in Geneforge 2 and then fully in 3.

It showed traditional Shaper procedures, and then the introduction of a "rogue" element in the form of Danette's Geneforge project. And then outsiders come along, see the injustice of Shaper tradition, and decide to use that rogue element to rectify Shaper injustice. And you're thrown in the middle and get to choose how to influence events.

Pure classic. I'm almost—almost, mind you—sorry that such a game was followed by sequels. The sequels added their own variations on this theme, and carried it through pretty well, though neither equaled the first in terms of originaltiy, impact, and overall story quality.. But future games in the series will have to work very hard to get up to the first game's very high standards.

I think after I'm done playing Geneforge 3 through again, I may go back and play the first game one more time. I've played through the first one about three or four times, since it's so good.

The best thing that could happen, in my opinion, in a Geneforge 4 is for the Shapers to split into sects, arguing over how many of their "barred" experiements—including the Geneforge—should be used in fighting their war with Ghaldring. They're loosing the war, and are desperate for anything that'll give them an edge. (My character at the end of the third game was all souped-up on canisters yet fighting for the Shapers, and I wasn't just tolerated by most other Shapers for my artificial abilties but valued for them, and this shows that the schism is already starting.) That would bring the real moral dilemma absent especially in Geneforge 3. Should they use the powers that enabled their enemy to appear in order to defeat that enemy? Will using such knowledge and powers cause them to become just like the enemy they hate so much?

--------------------
The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Strange Geneforge 3 Error in Tech Support
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #6
Well, I finally resorted to visiting www.doctormacdirect.com, a website offering Macintosh technical support, and read their "Free Advice" page. To make a long story short, my Quicktime preferences files (in my user account library) had become corrupt somehow or other, so after throwing them away everything was fixed. Videos now play correctly, Geneforge 3 works, as does EV Nova. I've had preference files corrupted in the past on my iBook, and know that such things are usually inexplicable freak occurences that don't occur twice with the same software. I've re-installed the Dent du Midi program and used it, and it works fine. If I'm feeling particularly adventuresome tomorrow, I may try re-installing Audacity as I really need its noise filtering feature when editing audio files recorded from old LP records...

Anyway, so if anyone reading this ever comes upon a similar problem, try locating your preference files for the program causing you trouble and put them in the trash. WIth most programs, starting the program up again will create fresh new preference files. If it's a shareware program, though, your registration might be lost, and you may have to write the company you bought it from to get a new key. Of course, it's a good idea to back up preference files for shareware programs right after you register it!
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Fave creation in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #9
For me, enemy rotghroths caused the greatest amount of harm—they're hard to hit, yet can hit you almost every time, doing lots of damage, and slow you down. If you're playing as a lone agent, dealing with even two rotghroths at once is a nightmare.

Yet I like the Inferno Worm best. I just wish the player could make them...
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Strange Geneforge 3 Error in Tech Support
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #5
After posting the crash log Panther generated when EV Nova autoquit on the Ambrosia bulletin boards, I looked through it more closely and noticed this bit. I've included all the header information from the crash log, and an excerpt detailing something called "Thread 2" which apparently crashed:

==========

Date/Time: 2005-05-24 16:53:26 -0700
OS Version: 10.3.5 (Build 7P36)
Report Version: 2

Command: EV Nova
Path: /Applications/EV Nova 1.0.8/EV Nova
Version: ??? (???)
PID: 266
Thread: 2

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000000

Thread 2 Crashed:
0 ...ple.QuickTimeMPEG.component 0x8105fb78 S_ComputeDCT27 + 0x18
1 ...ple.QuickTimeMPEG.component 0x8105d108 ParseMpaLayer2Stereo + 0xab0
2 ...ple.QuickTimeMPEG.component 0x8105acd8 SetupThenDoMpaFrameDecode + 0x118
3 ...ple.QuickTimeMPEG.component 0x81058348 S_DoFrameDecodeWrapper + 0x64
4 ...ple.QuickTimeMPEG.component 0x81057cbc S_DoFrame + 0x60
5 ...ple.QuickTimeMPEG.component 0x81057a9c S_ParseAudioStreamForever + 0x214
6 ...ple.QuickTimeMPEG.component 0x81057870 AudioThreadEntry + 0xa0
7 ...ple.QuickTimeMPEG.component 0x8103bee4 MacThreadFunc + 0x78
8 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900246e8 _pthread_body + 0x28

==========

So I'm beginning to wonder if one of the two audio programs did something to Quicktime. I'm using Quicktime version 6.5.2. iTunes seems to be unaffected, so maybe it's the video component or something that was messed up. To confirm this, I tried to play a Quicktime MPG clip which I've seen many times before with no problems, and received the following error:

"You may experience problems playing a sound track in "StarWarsEpisodeIIITeaser.mpg" because a software component needed by the movie could not be opened. Would you like to close the movie or continue?"

I can't imagine what either of these two audio programs would be doing to video files, so maybe it is EV Nova after all. I don't know...

Should I re-install Quicktime?
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Strange Geneforge 3 Error in Tech Support
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

I've installed Audacity and have no problems with it, so it's likely your problem is with DdM.
I've left a similar cry for help on Ambrosia's message boards, as well as emailing the creators of Audacity and DdM. Hopefully someone will have some idea of what the heck is going on.
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Strange Geneforge 3 Error in Tech Support
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #3
I assume with OS X if you throw away the folder containing the program, that is "uninstalling" it? Some OS 9 installers used to make an installer log that kept track of all the files the newly installed program created or altered. That feature seems to be gone in X, and I really miss that. All OS X programs I've installed were either as disk images or SIT files. Starting up a program for the first time will often cause the application to alter other files as it "settles in," but there seems to be no way of keeping track of what it's doing.

I deleted the EV Nova folder. But the problem remains...

[ Tuesday, May 24, 2005 17:39: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Strange Geneforge 3 Error in Tech Support
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #0
I've had no problems with Geneforge 3 until today, when I installed some new software. Now whenever I try to launch the application, the resolution switches, then switches back, then the application quits and gives me a little dialogue box saying "Failed To Open Sound Channels" with "Okay" being the only clickable button.

The programs I installed today are:

Dent du Midi (http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/audio/dentdumidi.html) — an application for letting MIDI files to be imported into GarageBand

Aucaity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) — allows you to edit and record sound files

EV Nova (Ambrosia game)

I know the culprit has to be one of these three. EV Nova also wouldn't work when I launched it, so I deduced the problem was one of the first two. I deleted the applications folders from my harddrive, and tried to start Geneforge 3. Didn't work. I'm afraid one of these two programs messed with my system files, in which case I'll never be able to track down the problem and fix it.
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Geneforge Tongue-Twisters & Limericks in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #3
The servant mind is serving fine.
It oversees the silver mine.
    There're gems there too:
    Red, white, green, blue;
And serviles working overtime.
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
The Vlish Lord. in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #5
Sounds like Darth Vlish is in the making... :P

But in all seriousness, this is a pretty neat concept you've got here. Interesting backstory, unusual approach to the game, etc.
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Geneforge Tongue-Twisters & Limericks in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #0
Well, I finished Geneforge 3 a few weeks ago, but got caught up in other things in the meantime and haven't visited the forums in quite a while. I haven't read anything in this forum since the very end of March, and can't even face the possibility of plowing through such a huge backlog of stuff.

I planned to write an in-depth review, setting out all my praise, observations, dissections, and criticisms of the newest installment in this fascinating series, discuss the moral dilemmas that confront the players, and study character interactions.

But I couldn't be bothered with that either.

So here, instead, is a small handful of tongue-twisters and limericks I've concocted over the last few weeks on various Geneforge themes. Far less time-consuming that reading backlog postings or writing an in-depth review, and, if I may say so, probably far more rewarding.

==========

The shapely Shaper shepherdess tenderly tends her fleeceless flock of fiery fyoras.

Barzahl bawls out his rebel rabble in the rubble of Rising for ruining his sneaky schemes for forging genes.

==========

Danette (Shaper lady researcher)
Made Geneforge, reputation-besmircher.
Now island in ruin
Yet plots are a-brewin'—
The makings of rogues and much murder!

Jars of green goo tickle eye,
Much favored by untrained Sholai.
Great powers they give.
Barred creatures make live!
Loyal Shapers need not apply.

==========

Everyone is invited to add their own tongue-twisters and limericks here. Strict adherence to established continuity is not required, though a vague resemblance to known facts will be appreciated. Poetic license is encouraged. Approximate rhyme is acceptable in limericks. Variant pronunciation of proper names is also acceptable ("Sholai" can end with either "lie" or "lay"), depending on nothing more than personal preference and convenience.

Just as a final word, I liked Geneforge 3 despite some flaws and disappointments, but I liked Jeff's new baby book and "The Story About the Toddler" pages even better.

[ Friday, May 20, 2005 17:02: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
RWG in Richard White Games
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #39
quote:
Originally written by My Friend:

A hypothetical species with seventeen different types of cones, all detecting wavelengths in the green portion of the spectrum, would not be able to see color like us at all, but it would be very good at telling greens apart since they would seem like entirely different "primary" colors rather than shades of one primary color.
So I guess Irishmen are an alien species from outer space? :P

EDIT: Hmmm. Perhaps I should clarify that, yes?

Irishmen are reputed to be able to distinguish between something like 48 different shades of green, in their native country alone. In my opinion, to accomplish such a feat would require some seriously non-standard ocular biological hardware. Q.E.D.

[ Monday, April 18, 2005 11:58: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Are there any plans for multiplayer games? in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #13
While I won't try to contradict the fact that mutliplayer computer games are extraordinarily popular, I for one despise them and stick to games that I can play by myself. Which is one reason why I love Spiderweb Software so much, and am glad to know that they have no plans to branch out into that style of gameplay. :)

--------------------
The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
RWG in Richard White Games
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #17
quote:
Originally written by Intelligent, interesting individual:

—Alorael, who isn't sure why it's so much fun to bash GC. It is fun, though, so everyone joins in.
Yes, even Icshi, a (the?) Galactic Core fan — who actually enjoyed the game a fair bit and thought it was very entertaining though would never stretch the point and say it was a good game — lets rip an occasional derisive comment about it since it is deserving of periodic scorn:

It's a shallow game, and not much thought went into it, but it's an acceptable way to while away a few hours in mindless yet satisfying amusement. Conquering the known galaxy has never been easier! How very democratic, that even the lowliest of strategic morons can eliminate his opponents in a spectacular fashion and in record time to boot!
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Should Nethergate 2 come out after A4 and BOG? in Nethergate
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #2
May God and all his Divine Host of Angels forbid that Nethergate is ever sullied by a sequel. It is inherently a stand-alone work. A sequel would only muddy the crystal-clear waters and cheapen what is Jeff Vogel's finest work to date.

I like having Avernum and Geneforge sequels flying out the wazoo like foam-soaked donkeys, but Nethergate was so different than anything else he's done, and it should remain unique.

...And no, I'm not sure what "flying out the wazoo like foam-soaked donkeys" means exactly. But you get the idea.

EDIT: I would write a lengthy and passionate argument for my objections, but I'm pressed for time. Lost starts in ten minutes, and I have to go to bed right afterwards because I have to awaken myself at the Hour of Beelzebub (7 am) for a trip tomorrow, and will be gone for four days. And so slips by another Golden Opportunity for Icshi to wax eloquent on a burning topic close to his heart.

[ Wednesday, March 30, 2005 17:51: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Another Pathetic & Premature Geneforge 3 Topic in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #8
I was wondering that myself. I guess we'll know once someone makes it all the way through the game, or gets the first batch of hintbooks to be shipped out (I ordered mine on Monday so I should be getting mine sometime soon).

I just know that the information about the demo says you can play only the first 24 of the 91 total zones in the game. I'm inclined to think Jeff counts these [b]"sub-zones"[/b] (like the Refugee cave under the South Kentia Gate) as going towards the total number.

And no, the possibility of having sub-zones had never occurred to me — I merely estimated the number of zones total. Quite frankly I'm not too keen on the whole sub-zone idea. You can't jump to them very easily since they're not on the world map. Still, since the game takes place on a series of islands, it is perhaps a necessary evil for space/display reasons.

[ Wednesday, March 30, 2005 17:42: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Another Pathetic & Premature Geneforge 3 Topic in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #6
quote:
Originally written by Icshi:

there should be about 91 in the third game.
Bingo! Right on the dot.

quote:
I therefore tentatively project at least a 18.4 MB BIN file
Hmmm. Not so hot. It ended up being just 17.4 MB. So my estimate was off by a whole MB.

Ah well, 50% aint' bad.

<Icshi then does a silly dance, celebrating a nigglingly trivial victory. Whereas in fact all the first estimate proves is that Jeff can also do basic math — "Er, 84 minus 77 equals 7, and, let's see [sips coffee], 7 plus 84 equals 91. So I guess that's a good number of zones to put into the third game..." — and the second was just plain silly.>
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
canister effects in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #7
I absolutely adore canisters. I can easily gobble up an entire room full of them without hesitating about the known side effects. The insanity aspect makes the power you wield a little more entertaining.

Ah! Sucia Island, full of unused canisters! <slurp, gobble gobble>. Mmmm! A little snack to tide me over until I get to use the Geneforge...
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Geneforge 3 available for Macintosh in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #38
quote:
Originally written by Khoth:

quote:
Someone or other said:
After experimenting with "pick-up" characters in GF2, and being continually frustrated with their blundering stupidity, I've sworn never to let an NPC join.
You get to control Alwan and Greta, so you don't need to worry about blundering stupidity. They're actually rather useful.

That was me...

So, you get to control them, eh? I may try that out.

In GF2 I got really mad at my companions when I raided the Radiant College and sabotaged their whatsit. Hostile energy was being excuded at an alarming rate, and everybody in the place wanted to kill us, so what should we do? Run for our lives? Or stick real close to the source of the radiation, flinging puny acid bolts at every Drayk and Ur-Glaahk that comes close? :rolleyes: Fine, you stay there and do that, then. Excuse me while I run for my life. I lost about half my party because those fools would rather die a pointless death than skeedadle and continue living. I guess maybe they had chronic depression problems and that seemed the only way out.

I don't think too much of GF3's story so far. Still, I'm still well within the "demo" section (even though I'm now registered!) and those are seldom very stellar storywise. I shall reserve judgement.

[ Tuesday, March 29, 2005 16:05: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Really Really Weird Downloading Bug in Tech Support
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #11
The Mystery of Mysteries deepens. Last week I downloaded some files via FTP using Safari and experienced no problems whatsoever. Yesterday I downloaded Geneforge 3 the same way, and again no problems.

I guess it was some unpredictable Safari software hickup. :confused:
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Male/Female Characters in Geneforge Series
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #1
The artist in question would be, I believe, the magnificent Andrew Hunter, who not only does the character artwork but the startup screens as well. He's really terrific, but I have to say I'm surprised at how he did that Guardian...

He did good work with Ambrosia's Ferazel's Wand, too. The game play is so-so, but the art is fantastic (though he didn't do the landscape backgrounds).
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00

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