Avernum 4

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AuthorTopic: Avernum 4
Warrior
Member # 3035
Profile Homepage #25
probably a pre-quil (okay i can't spell so sue me) to avernum. I 'll buy it if the demo is good... i'm going to buy geneforege 3 first though...

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Posts: 73 | Registered: Monday, May 26 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4256
Profile #26
quote:
quote:Originally written by The Almighty Doer of Stuff:
As a side note, I intend to create a couple different RPG engines (maybe other types too, like platformers) once I learn to program, that will come with extremely powerful, easy to use editors. If I release any more modules/scenarios after the initial one that comes with the program, I'll also try not to ignore the community's ideas. And I'll frequently upgrade and not be a jerk. Best of all, they may be free. But that last part is to be decided. Hopefully I'll get enough money to start a store/arcade that will support me financially. Of course, this is not going to happen for several years, so this is all useless info for now.

A couple? Do you have any goddamn idea how hard and time-consuming it is to make such an engine? And then to provide quality content development tools? One such product is enough work for a lifetime, believe me.

Well if you have a staff of 500 people working for your nifty little company then.... Or then again maybe he was being sarcastic
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But as to the A4 thing- The sparkly engine would be nice- but I never enjoyed the Avernum series as much as Exile. It never had the same appeal as that magical CD with a demo RPG on it 10 years ago. I kinda agree that once something is pretty much rapped up, it is difficult to unrap it. I think that something before the start of A1 would be the most appealing though. I'll at least try the demo whatever it though.

[ Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:02: Message edited by: macrsp ]
Posts: 564 | Registered: Wednesday, April 14 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #27
On the bright side, there will be a demo. We'll be able to see if the game is worth playing or not. And if there are enough people who hate it, it will send the right message to Jeff.

This assumes, of course, that the community here and at closely connected boards (Lyceum and company) is a significant portion of Jeff's playerbase. He doesn't seem to think so, but I'm sure a real rejection just by the people here would hurt.

—Alorael, who supposes that if enough people bought four or five copies of Nethergate Jeff might be persuaded to go with that instead of Avernum. So if you have more money than sense, go for it.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #28
quote:
Originally written by Andrea:

quote:
Originally written by The Almighty Doer of Stuff:

As a side note, I intend to create a couple different RPG engines (maybe other types too, like platformers) once I learn to program, that will come with extremely powerful, easy to use editors. If I release any more modules/scenarios after the initial one that comes with the program, I'll also try not to ignore the community's ideas. And I'll frequently upgrade and not be a jerk. Best of all, they may be free. But that last part is to be decided. Hopefully I'll get enough money to start a store/arcade that will support me financially. Of course, this is not going to happen for several years, so this is all useless info for now.
A couple? Do you have any goddamn idea how hard and time-consuming it is to make such an engine? And then to provide quality content development tools? One such product is enough work for a lifetime, believe me.

Well, obviously not in quick succession. It would be over many years. But it's still several years off before I can even start, so it doesn't matter right now anyway.

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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3368
Profile #29
If you can be vahnatai,then i'm in.

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"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending"
Posts: 287 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4973
Profile #30
quote:
i'm going to buy geneforege 3 first though...
Lets hear it for Geneforge! It gets my vote (not to mention my money).

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There are three kinds of people in the world: those who think, those who think they think, and those who would rather die than think.
Posts: 104 | Registered: Thursday, September 16 2004 07:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #31
Geneforge... What mindless, inane, poseur rubbish. Also known as "Pokeforge," or "Deep philosophical discourse from a fourth-grade Libertarian." I'll likely end up playing Geneforge 3, but I won't buy it.

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人 た ち を 燃 え る た め に 俺 は か れ ら に 火 を 上 げ る か ら 死 ん だ
Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #32
You can dislike Geneforge. I'm not a huge fan myself, although it's for reasons of engine and not of plot. I, however, fail to see the hand evil pokespiracy in every game that involves summoning creatures. It's present in some, yes, but not all. Geneforge isn't one of them.

—Alorael, who also thinks complaining about the plot is questionable. Okay, you disagree with it politically. Does that make it bad? Doesn't it at least beat A3 (and 95% of other games available)?
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #33
I think I'm with Alo on this one, I don't see much connection between Genoforge and Pokeman. I won't end up buying Genoforge3, either, unless some people I respect here really recommend it. But that's doubtful.

And I can't say I'm really a fan of most plots in Jeff's games. I was awed by the concept behind Exile1 when it came out because it felt so fresh. But now, with the likes of A3, I just dislike the whole scheme of "the vahnatai really did do it!" Probably just me, but isn't it always?

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Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
Profile #34
My retro-active spoiler-alert just kicked in.

EDIT: Notice how my post count is 667? Meaning I passed 666. Without making any noise about it! I think I deserve some recognition here, what?

[ Wednesday, September 29, 2004 21:24: Message edited by: Seaweed ]

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Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3898
Profile #35
The thought of an Avernum 4 makes me cringe. It seems to me as if Jeff is trying to make sure that no outside company will ever try to steal his BoA idea by making it so redundant, disliked, and just plain ****y the way he tried to do to BoE.

And if an Avernum 4 game was a prequel, then there would soon be an Avernum 5, an Avernum 6, (all prequels) an Avernum 7, 8, 9, (all sequels), and dear olf Jeff Vogel would suffer the same fate as a person who tried to do the same thing with a series of movies that rhymed with Car Wars.

Let us all pray for a NG2, before we get a Bandit Busywork 2.

[ Wednesday, September 29, 2004 19:46: Message edited by: Dallerdin ]

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LINKAGE
Posts: 364 | Registered: Saturday, January 17 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3804
Profile #36
Just a note about a prequel, with the name it seems unlikely. If he's really going to call it 'Avernum 4' then it will probably be a follow up, otherwise it would have been 'Before Avernum' or something.

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"This......is a TREE! What's it for?" -Exile III
Posts: 75 | Registered: Saturday, December 20 2003 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3870
Profile Homepage #37
Heh... how about Avernum 0, Avernum -1 and Avernum -2?

As for me, I'll judge A4 when I see it. That, at least, is an advantage of shareware. Still, I don't have high hopes... :rolleyes:

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Posts: 156 | Registered: Thursday, January 8 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
Profile #38
Avernum: The beginning
Avernum: Genesis

Avernum 4 could tell the story of the First Expedition. You know, "a small band of Empire adventurers descended to the unexplored caves where dragons and demons freely roamed etc".

Only then it would have to end with everyone being slaughtered. A pity.

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Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3870
Profile Homepage #39
No, then he'd change the history of Ermarian, and make the First Expedition a success instead. So much for historical continuity.

That's why I sincerely hope he doesn't fiddle around with the past of the games. He'd only mess it up, I'm certain.

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"Toleration is not the opposite of intoleration, but is the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms. The one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience, and the other of granting it."
---Thomas Paine

Posts: 156 | Registered: Thursday, January 8 2004 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #40
quote:
Originally written by Seaweed:

Avernum 4 could tell the story of the First Expedition. You know, "a small band of Empire adventurers descended to the unexplored caves where dragons and demons freely roamed etc".

Only then it would have to end with everyone being slaughtered. A pity.

This, I believe, would be a fiercely interesting game: Skip the useless leve-building since you already have Demonslayer, Giantslayer, Smite, etc, and have every tactical challenge revolve around the situations of the members of the expedition- each chapter could be the story of each member. (And it's not assumed that every one of them died- just that their equipment scattered. After all, there IS a physical exit to Exile/Avernum at that point, and since falling off of a cliff inevitably means that the person is still alive, it's plenty feasible that they might only be assumed to be dead.) The various chapters would be gauntlets where the single party member could have people join his/her crew, and most paths end in slaughter- there would be lots of fleeing.

Unfortunately, there would be few (if any) goblin dungeons and little senseless slaughtering. So much for that idea.

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人 た ち を 燃 え る た め に 俺 は か れ ら に 火 を 上 げ る か ら 死 ん だ
Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3870
Profile Homepage #41
Sounds like a challenge to make into a good plot, eh? If you ever do, I'll be sure to try it. If only to see how you'll contrive to put philosophical symbolism into it. :D

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"Toleration is not the opposite of intoleration, but is the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms. The one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience, and the other of granting it."
---Thomas Paine

Posts: 156 | Registered: Thursday, January 8 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 618
Profile Homepage #42
Actually, wasn't the exact words "killed down to a man and a woman", implying to my mind that they might have survived to escape.

Though considering the four-PC party system, well so much for that idea.

Thinking about it, it might be interesting to see a BoA/BoE scenario based on the concept. It could be interesting if carried well.

[ Thursday, September 30, 2004 05:59: Message edited by: FatBatMonkey ]

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Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio
Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #43
They would not necessarily have been killed. If they made it to Vahnati lands or Slith Lands they may have been imprisoned. Politely made into permanent guests of the Vahnati or slith leaders.

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Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #44
Rentar-Ihrno's vahnatai were Resting at the time, though. There are other clans, of course, but those seem to be the nearest, making contact with others less likely.

The sliths had already been exiled by that point, too, meaning that the huge steel door in the bottom of Lost Bahssikava would have been sealed shut already, which would mean that in order to come into contact with sliths other than the ones in Avernum proper, they would've had to find another route back to the slith homeland. I suppose that's possible, though.

EDIT: And I'm betting it's a sequel, not a prequel, as much as the latter would rock the former.

[ Thursday, September 30, 2004 09:30: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3035
Profile Homepage #45
well who knows...for all we know it could be a prequel thats shows the first (or whatever) exapedtion into avernum from the surface...first encounters with the lizard people (can't spell there names) and such

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Posts: 73 | Registered: Monday, May 26 2003 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #46
I think the dumbest thing in the world is to complain and pass judgment on something before you've even seen/used/tasted it. What does this ever get you? Smug satisfaction of knowing you were right? Way to go.

Also, I don't think it's worth getting worked up over plot details. Ultimately, the particulars of the story and concept of Avernum are proprietarily Jeff's to do with as he pleases, much like the way Lucas reserves the right to determine the Star Wars story. Fan fiction, however well done, is still fan fiction. As far as Avernum 4 goes, if the story seems to be compelling enough, then buy it. If not, let it go.

As for new plot possibilities in a fictional world, there are many options. For example, just have the story take place 500 years after the end of Avernum 3. By then, everything could be different. Chronicle the invasion of Avernum by the race of ocean dwellers no one had encountered before. Uncover the secret evil that the vahnatai have been keeping in check, until now. There are tons of possibilities.

And as for whether there should even be an Avernum 4, why not? Avernum is Jeff's brand, and if using his brand recognition guarantees him more sales, he may as well use it - it makes financial sense.

Seaweed - claiming that all the best works come in trilogies is largely unfounded. How about Harry Potter? The Chronicles of Narnia? the Baldur's Gate series? Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey-Maturin series (20 books)?

And for whoever says there should be an Exile 4 before an Avernum 4, take ten seconds and actually think about that statement, would you?

I for one am excited about the possibilities of a new engine.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #47
A4 - hmmm.

Probably not that good an idea. The scenario designers for one would throw a big baby tantrum, and others, as seen above, will just try throwing any old thing in to say it's crap. The fact is... It's Jeff's game, his world, etc, but we've all gotten so used to ASSUMING things about it, that we don't like it when people break our hallucinations.

That saying, you could have Avernum 4, in a similar vein to like a new type of Portal, which sends you back years and years and years, into the time when the Vahnatai lived on the surface. A game like that would start off based in the present, but would solve lot of un-solved quesions in the Avernum world. If so... Annoying A4-haters... STUFF IT!

AND he's saying that there's a new engine, which means that it most likely will be unlike anything we've currently faced. It could be exciting, or rubbish. Ofcourse, it would HAVE to be based similarly to the original Avernum controls, but it could just be a new upgrade. I mean, the Exile 1, Exile 2, Exile 3, and Blades of Exile all used different engines, as he learnt how to make them better and better.

Anyway, thought I'd contribute to this discussion, bring some sense back to it, so on. :D

I think what we all need reminding of is the fact that it isn't OUR world, we don't have any large part to play in it. I's Jeff's world, Jeff's choice what happens. We're just here for the ride :cool: .

- Archmagi Micael

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"You dare Trifle with Exile?" - Erika the Archmage
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Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Babelicious
Member # 3149
Profile Homepage #48
Making an Avernum 4 is like making a Jurassic Park 3.

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I've got a pyg in a poke.
Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #49
I understand what you are implying - that the entire Jurassic Park story had been told. Consider though that we're not just dealing with a story surrounding a particular set of characters or events, but an entire fantasy world with large thematic involvement of relations between cultures above and below the ground. Still lots of room for possibilities!

Maybe making an Avernum 4 is like making a Warcraft 2 or a Baldur's Gate 2. There seems to be a lack of faith in Jeff's creative abilities, as he's been rehashing Exile into Avernum for quite a while. Let's not forget he also created Nethergate and Geneforge, as well as two scenario builders. All in all, I think it's quite an accomplishment for one person, as you could probably attest to from your own experience as well, Djur. :)

[ Thursday, September 30, 2004 10:59: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00

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