Avernum 4

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AuthorTopic: Avernum 4
Lifecrafter
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Suppose Kelandon is right and A4 is about a war between the Empire and the Vahnatai. What role would the avernites play in that conflict? It seems likely that Avernum (and Upper Avernum) immidiately would be conquered by the Vahnatai. With Erika dead Avernum wouldn't stand a chance.

Would the Empire care enough to put up a real fight for the caves? How would the avernites feel getting caught between two major powers? They would be forced to pick sides. Might they even join the Vahnatai? I think most people down there still recall the Empire war, and how they Vahnatai helped them out. And the Vahnatai haven't really got any quarrel with Avernum (though it's hard to predict how they would act).

Ok, so that was rambling. Now to the reason of this post. In case of a Empire vs. Vahnatai war, would it be to radical to play as a Vahnatai? Maybe even something like Nethergate, in which you can play the same adventure seen from both sides? I think the idea is rather interesting, but I don't think Jeff would agree.

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Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
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Profile #151
I think it would be interesting if the Avernites decided to overthrow the Empire. That would make for a fun game.

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Posts: 287 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #152
Think cold war. Increasing rebellious activity in the empire-- with arms supplied by both the Vahnati and elements in Avernum. Quickfire and plague treaty with Vahnati. Magical arms escalation. Contested border disputes with the Vahnati, Slith, and Empire. Hidden Vahnati bases in Avernum and the Empire. Think imperial help versus the invading slith hordes and intrigue with the Vahnati. Lots more room for intrigue, a greater variety of spells, crafting and advanced alchemy skills, advanced fighting skills, more items, many more monster types, a better ability to include traps including mines, trapped chests. Improved animations, cut scenes, and ability to add up to 4 NPCs I'd think. Improved dialogue and monster AI. This is just a guess.

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Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
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Although the vahnatai may have won the battle in a2, with the avernites, i'd have to say the empire would be victorious. Not only do they have the strength in numbers, they also have deadly archers compared with the vahnatai warriors, mages compared with vahnatai mages (order mages-vahnatai lords) and the vahnatai can't go aboveland, giving the empire a great advantage.

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Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
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Profile #154
I'm certain that the Vahnatai's forces will engage the Empire again in Avernum 4.

Perhaps your ultimate goal in Avernum 4 will be to convince Rentar-Ihrno to stop tormenting the denizens of the Empire's settlements somehow.

In my insight, it's incomprehensible that Rentar-Ihrno, who is so wise and intelligent, attempted to exterminate all life on the surface of the planet... An unrealistic fact.

quote:
Originally written by -08:

Not only do they have the strength in numbers, they also have deadly archers compared with the vahnatai warriors, mages compared with vahnatai mages (order mages-vahnatai lords)
The magery skills of the Vahnatai are far superior to the magery skills of mankind in the Trilogy of Avernum.

[ Saturday, November 27, 2004 07:26: Message edited by: Mind ]
Posts: 356 | Registered: Tuesday, April 6 2004 07:00
Lifecrafter
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Profile #155
quote:
Originally written by Mind:

In my insight, it's incomprehensible that Rentar-Ihrno, who is so wise and intelligent, attempted to exterminate all life on the surface of the planet... An unrealistic fact.

…say that again?

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You can never frighten me,
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Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 5238
Profile #156
Originally written by Mind:
In my insight, it's incomprehensible that Rentar-Ihrno, who is so wise and intelligent, attempted to exterminate all life on the surface of the planet... An unrealistic fact.

I think there's a Vahnatai in our midst.
Rentar was stark-raving, starting with the theft of certain gems.

PS:how do you quote?

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Posts: 27 | Registered: Saturday, November 27 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
Profile Homepage #157
quote:
Originally written by -08:

Although the vahnatai may have won the battle in a2, with the avernites, i'd have to say the empire would be victorious. Not only do they have the strength in numbers, they also have deadly archers compared with the vahnatai warriors, mages compared with vahnatai mages (order mages-vahnatai lords) and the vahnatai can't go aboveland, giving the empire a great advantage.
They can't go aboveground? Where'd you get that?
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
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It seems to be a common belief in the community, with no actual evidence behind it. In fact, the existence of ancient architecture of probable Vahnatai origin on the surface strongly suggests that the Vahnatai lived there once.

They do probably prefer conditions in the caves, though.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #159
I think some vahnatai say somewhere that sunlight hurts their eyes. On the other hand, there are both vahnatai explorers in a surface crypt who probably got there on the surface (somehow unnoticed) and the vahnatai who attack you past Tinraya but still outdoors and on the surface.

—Alorael, who would guess that the vahnatai are able to adapt to sunlight almost as well as humans born in Avernum. Certainly the slithzerikai were always subterranean until A3 and they seem to do fine in your party (and in the Golddale mines, although they may have reached them from below and not from the surface).
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 2627
Profile Homepage #160
quote:
Originally written by Kreshweed:


Ok, so that was rambling. Now to the reason of this post. In case of a Empire vs. Vahnatai war, would it be to radical to play as a Vahnatai? Maybe even something like Nethergate, in which you can play the same adventure seen from both sides? I think the idea is rather interesting, but I don't think Jeff would agree.

Playing as Vahnatai would be a cool idea.

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Posts: 81 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
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I'm still scratching my head over the "Vahnatai can't go to the surface" thing.

They CAME from the surface. They may be photosensitive, like the human Exiles, but I've not seen anything that says they can't go to the surface.

Even the sliths do okay on the surface.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Warrior
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Profile Homepage #162
Being able to have Vahnatai PC's would be cool.

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Posts: 81 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00
Off With Their Heads
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Arenax, people agree with you. There's no need to belabor the point.

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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
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Profile Homepage #164
Vahnatai can go to the surface without problems, they're just not comfortable doing it.

Remember when the party first leaves Fort Emergence and arrives at the surface - the strong light and open space is described as very unpleasant and disorienting because you're not used to it.

The Vahnatai have dwelled below-ground for thousands of years; evolution might have kicked in already. I'm sure those bulbous eyes weren't that large when they left the surface. Think Gollum. ;)

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Warrior
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quote:
Originally written by Also rather a nutcase.:



The thing to fear, of course, is that with Jeff bringing out his own canon information, some designers might turn this into a free-for-all and we have dozens of different versions.


That's what the theory of parralell universes is useful for.

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Posts: 81 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
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Profile Homepage #166
quote:
Originally written by And Passed, and never Sight he Saw:

The Vahnatai have dwelled below-ground for thousands of years; evolution might have kicked in already. I'm sure those bulbous eyes weren't that large when they left the surface. Think Gollum. ;)
Gollum did fine, too. :P
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by [b:
ARRR-enax[/b]]
I'm still scratching my head over the "Vahnatai can't go to the surface" thing.

Ohhh, sorry guys. I just thought I remembered something from BOE that the vahnatai in the cave in the first scenario says they can't go to the surface. My mind isnt the best at remembering. :) Thanks for clearing it up though.

However, the surface is still a disadvantage for tehm, especially after tliving all those years in the caves.

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Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00
Warrior
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Profile Homepage #168
quote:
Originally written by ARRR-enax:

Gollum did fine, too.
"We hates that big bright face in the sky! It spies on us! It burns us, it burns us!"

He did, but you can't say he was comfortable. If it hadn't been for the ring, he'd have stayed in his cool shady caves. :P

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Posts: 156 | Registered: Thursday, January 8 2004 08:00
For Carnage, Apply Within
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IIRC, being on the surface is mildly debilitating for the Vahnatai, not merely uncomfortable. I think this was part of the reasoning behind their using plagues rather than attacking directly. But I can't remember exactly what the Vahnatai in that surface crypt said, so I may be wrong.
Posts: 567 | Registered: Friday, October 5 2001 07:00
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I doubt they'd make a headon fight anyway. They are powerful, but I don't think they're that dumb to fight in an environment they aren't comfortable with, as well as they don't have strength in numbers. (I know, I keep bringing up that point :P )But, say they did win, they'd sustain heavy losses.

Wait, I just had a thought. If they thought chitrachs were hard, then they're in for a battle! Besides, plagues were a much smarter choice. Its methodical, the victims wouldn't know who did it, and they could retain their numbers.

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Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
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I always got the sense that chitrachs were a problem for vahnatai like locusts are a problem for human, only chitrachs are slightly more likely to skip the crops and eat the farmers. They're just big, violent bugs, but they come in inconvenient hordes.

—Alorael, who also thinks that just about anything is a threat when most of your people are still in cold storage and your cities are in ruins. Besides, chitrachs may lay their eggs in vahnatai brains.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
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I agree. They wouldn't have sent the party in A2 after them if getting rid of them was a critical thing. They always seemed like pests to me.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
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Behind the scenes:

"So, here we have these stupid humans who want to have a quest from us. What should I make them do?"

"Dunno... something useless and funny I guess, like go through some of those old training areas."

"Hey! I got a better idea! Why not let them do some pest controlling? The bugs are really getting out of hand now."

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"So, humans. You have been chosen for this most noble and honorable Quest. You are to save our homeland by slaying the icky bu---, ah, lethal monsters that anno---, ah, endanger us. Are you prepared to take on this critical task, human heros?"

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"See? Flattery and appeal to self-importance. Works every time with those idiots."

:P

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The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
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Yeah, I never thought of it that way. I guess the Chitrachs are like A-2 threats, whereas the Hydras are A-1 threats. :)

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Posts: 394 | Registered: Saturday, November 20 2004 08:00

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