Suicide
Pages
| Author | Topic: Suicide |
|---|---|
|
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
|
written Wednesday, March 17 2004 07:04
Profile
Homepage
Have the two of you taken up beating yourselves with hammers or something? Failure to spell anything like correctly is never a good thing. -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX ...there really is nothing that can compare to hot gay sex with a mythological icon. --665 Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 4066
|
written Wednesday, March 17 2004 07:35
Profile
101st reply Posts: 19 | Registered: Friday, March 5 2004 08:00 |
|
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
|
written Wednesday, March 17 2004 10:37
Profile
Please decease. -_- Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
|
written Wednesday, March 17 2004 11:25
Profile
-------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 4034
|
written Wednesday, March 17 2004 11:28
Profile
quote:Imban is right you guys are sorely off topic and need to stop spamming, If you haven't noticed this is a rather serious topic as well. -------------------- "When one thinks to him or herself about who they really are, They usually come out of it empty handed for the question be -not who am i-, but -what have i acheived?-" Experimental forum Posts: 113 | Registered: Friday, February 27 2004 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 335
|
written Wednesday, March 17 2004 15:15
Profile
Homepage
The goal of suicide bombing isn't the death of the perpetrator, it's the death of others. I'd classify that differently from suicide as a form of escape. As far as I know, very few people commit suicide for religious reasons, and most of them are part of lunatic cults. Most people who commit suicide either do so with no particular thoughts on Providence or do so with the added guilt of knowing they have sinned against God by taking their lives. ?Alorael, who doesn't see how religion is any more relevant to suicide-motivated depression than it is to pneumonia. If you get sick, you get sick. God (probably) isn't pulling strings to orchestrate who gets what. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3801
|
written Wednesday, March 17 2004 16:58
Profile
Homepage
quote:So much for that idea eh? -------------------- Only the insane equate pain with success. Posts: 323 | Registered: Thursday, December 18 2003 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
|
written Wednesday, March 17 2004 17:06
Profile
Homepage
Chuck! Imban! Thank you for defending the topic against the bulies. If nothing else helps, we can move our discussion elsewhere. quote:Whenever I had thoughts like veering off the highway at 100m/h against a bridge pier or ? when I lost any concern about a cover up as an accident ? closing the garage with the moror running, I did not care about any of your questions but the last one. I just wanted to get rid of all the ****. Now that I can think in a more relaxed way, I will try to answer your questions as honestly as I can. 1. What is the role of Providence in the affairs of men? I find the idea of Providence hard to reconcile with my illusion of a free will. I do not "know" whether my will is free, though. How could I possibly find out? The relevant aspect of this question for me is whether I feel responsible for my decisions or delegate the responsibility to some unfathomable instance. Need I to say more? 2. what does life mean? As a definition, I would say living structures adapt to change. Take some form of clouds for example: convection rolls that form similarly in a pot with fluid heated from below or in the presence of some ongoing chemical reaction. I would not call this life because it does not store information on a molecular level, where far more complex structures are possible. As soon as there is "life", any change in the medium elicits defensive changes in the living organism as if it had known what reaction would be helpful for survival under such conditions. Apart from the definition, what do you mean by the "meaning" of something? Does the "meaning" have to be universal by belonging to the phenomenon itself or may it be purely attached in some arbitrary way by us humans? Take the stellar constellations as an example. The stars in any one of them may be further apart from each other than from the earth and have little more in common than that they appear under similar angles to observers on he earth. In particular, they do not form any common stucture in the universe. However, in blissful ignorance of that, our ancestors identified the constellations as structures in their sky, gave them names and invented all kinds of folklore about them that made sense as a mnemonic tool. The constellations certainly meant something to them in spite of their arbitrariness. More general, finding any meaning in our world makes our world easier to remember and to predict. Our inborn urge to find meanings makes us find mnemonic connections between things and gives us an advantage for survival. Imho, the meaning of many things is in the eye of the beholder and its usefulness can be measured by the extent to which it makes our world simpler. Only natural scientists work on the project to establish a universal meaning for the phenomena in our world. It is so much simpler to remember and transmit to you the meaningful name "pi" than the number itself 3.141592 (See, I forgot the rest!) (to be continued.) with 3. What makes a life worthwhile? 4. How should we love our lives? 5. How does each of us fit into the grander design? [ Wednesday, March 17, 2004 17:09: Message edited by: yet another procrastinator ] Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 3521
|
written Wednesday, March 17 2004 17:44
Profile
Oddly enough, although I'm a generally happy, well-adjusted individual, I often find myself viewing suicide not as a current option, but as an almost unavoidable eventuality. It's doubtful that I possess any notable mental disorders, chemical imbalances, or anything of the sort. My major problem is that I seem to view life as a sort of dead-end trek. I'm lazy to a fault and seem to possess no natural motivation or ambition whatsoever. Although I'm able to recognize these qualities in myself, however, I haven't an inkling as to how to gain more motivation, or how to light the fire of ambition and drive in myself, which seems to have been extinguished for as long as I can remember. As an unavoidable consequence of my lack of motivation, I find myself unable to accomplish nearly any goal I undertake. My grades suffer, I am inexcusably lax in terms of maintaining friendships and keeping in contact with my loving family, and I'm entirely unable to make the slightest bit of a move on any girl I may be attracted to. The guilt is deepened by my constant awareness of my own potential, a potential which is certainly quite large, but almost entirely unexploited and wasted. Guilt and negativity plague me constantly. Occasionally I'll accomplish something rather notable, and the feelings will vanish temporarily, but they always return with time. Immersing myself in various entertainments will distract me from my troubles, but the pleasures resulting from these pastimes are always painfully temporary. The vicious cyle of negativity is such that I doubt my chances of "success" ever-more strongly with each passing day, and my hope for the future, once moderately present, has been extinguished. I hang around, though, largely for the sake of those that care for me, and due to my own, still-powerful love for myself. However, I am quite aware that I cannot persist in this manner for much longer. As the disappointments and failures caused by my ineffectuality mount, day by day, my guilt and negativity are slowly advancing to form a sort of vegetative despair. What will happen when this despair finally takes a complete hold of me, when I find myself unable to complete the slightest task, when I finish confining myself within a psychological cage? It is no pretty thought. Suicide, while a sickening thought, might well be my only option at such a point. -------------------- Stughalf "The death-knell of the republic had rung as soon as the active power became lodged in the hands of those who sought, not to do justice to all citizens, rich and poor alike, but to stand for one special class and for its interests as opposed to the interests of others."- Theodore Roosevelt, 1903. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 2476
|
written Thursday, March 18 2004 01:37
Profile
Kick me, if you think me an unwelcome intruder, Stughalf. "that I seem to view life as a sort of dead-end trek" meaning that without knowing how you've manoevoured yourself in a dead-end trek? "I haven't an inkling as to how to gain more motivation" meaning the motivation is not on the path you've chosen to follow? "how to light the fire...which seems to have been extinguished" meaning it is not where you look for it? Your fire is who you are. Its sparkles when you express 'your Self'. Maybe your 'ineffectuality' is not caused by any failure, but by a strong inner drive to be who you are, and not who your 'persona' wants you to be. Maybe you misunderstood something when you were younger and instead of adding outward strength to your inner potential chose to abandon the part that carries your light. Maybe that part does not accept your decision and does not let you go on with it. How many people do you know who'd be content and efficient living with what to you seems a cage and an empty shell? I guess quite a few. How come you feel its emptiness? What part of you makes you aware? How come you know how shallow success and achievement are, if pursued for their own sake? How come you want something else, something more 'true'? What part of yourself does know? Could you imagine listening to it, asking it what it wants? What it truly and deeply needs? What it knows? Do not expect immediate answers. But thoughts will come, feelings will come that point you in the right direction. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 3694
|
written Thursday, March 18 2004 05:21
Profile
I know just hou Stughalf feels - I feel much the same way. Only difference is that there seems to be someone out to keep me down, and therefore I have no intention of committing suicide - who or what-ever wants me down has to kill me itself. I'm not saying that "suicide is for cowards" or anything like it, just that I'd rather not do it. If someone else does it, let me know why so that I can understand. (e.g. Political suicide.) Oh, by the way, those aren't suicide bombers, they're homicide bombers and idiots as well. -------------------- And that was exactly the point of itself. Takes advantage of the easily offended. Reports of my demise are extremely accurate except for the fact that they refer to my clone. Posts: 137 | Registered: Monday, November 17 2003 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 4034
|
written Thursday, March 18 2004 05:24
Profile
Boy, I ment for those questions to help sum up the topic but I see now that its impossible. I forgot to answer my own questions  1. Providence. As far as Gods role in my life, well i'm a christian I believe he is all powerful, His will is my life, so his role in my life is pretty much up to him. 2. Life's meaning I believe(as a christian) that life's meaning is to worship god. Worshiping god doesnt take up my whole life but it leaves a pretty big impression as to why i'm here. 3. Worthwhile Well I love to live. My life is made worthwhile because of my family. I could not stand to but them in a position where they will have to mourn over me before my natural death(another question should suicide be considered a natural death? I think not) 4. 5. I dont know if I could answer those questions at this moment. -------------------- "When one thinks to him or herself about who they really are, They usually come out of it empty handed for the question be -not who am i-, but -what have i acheived?-" Experimental forum Posts: 113 | Registered: Friday, February 27 2004 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 2628
|
written Thursday, March 18 2004 06:07
Profile
Homepage
I don't think you can sum up a topic as personal as this one. We all have different outlooks on life, death and suicide. I'm not sure I want this topic to fade off the boards - in Australia suicide is a serious social issue, and I'm sure it is in other parts of the world too. I think it's a good thing we've been able to discuss it (and mostly with sensitivity), as it's a subject that's often swept under the carpet. quote:The role of Providence in the affairs of men? I'm a Christian, and I can see how God has affected my life. But that's how He's affected my life, and it doesn't necessarily apply to anyone else or to the human race as a whole. What does life mean? Heh, I'm 41 and haven't got this one figured out. Maybe I'll let you know after my next birthday (with a wink to the Douglas Adams fans on the board). What's made my life worthwhile? Setting myself some achievable goals that will satisfy me on an intellectual and emotional level, and working towards achieving them. And these are my goals, not goals set for me by the demands, needs or wishes of family, friends or community. How should we love our lives? This is going to sound so preachy - and it's just my opinion. We need to cherish and value ourselves for our strengths and our weaknesses. We don't have to be perfect, it's ok to be less than perfect. We need to appreciate our uniqueness, no two people are alike. It's ok to be different, diversity is cool. How does each of us fit into the grander design? Tough question. I don't know that there is a 'grander design'. God gave us free will, I don't believe we live lives that are preplanned by God to fit some grander design of His. Kyna [ Thursday, March 18, 2004 06:12: Message edited by: Kyna ] -------------------- We meet and part now over all the world; we, the lost company, take hands together in the night, forget the night in our brief happiness, silently. -- Judith Wright My website Posts: 512 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 4034
|
written Thursday, March 18 2004 07:29
Profile
I agree with Kyna on the last two questions. -------------------- "When one thinks to him or herself about who they really are, They usually come out of it empty handed for the question be -not who am i-, but -what have i acheived?-" Experimental forum Posts: 113 | Registered: Friday, February 27 2004 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 2775
|
written Thursday, March 18 2004 07:36
Profile
Homepage
When I was 14 I thought about stealing one of my stepfather's guns and shooting him and my mom and going off robbing gas stations until someone shot me. I decided I didn't want to hurt people (including myself) badly enough to do that, so I didn't do it. But I felt totally an outsider in everything and trusted no one. My goal became to drink enough so I didn't care what was going on around me, and the thought of doing this at night made me able to face the day. It was a poor coping strategy, but it's what I learned. Once my mom walked into the living room with a loaded shotgun and announced she was going to kill herself. I got the gun away from her and hid the shells. It surprised me that I could do anything like that. Much later in life I learned self-acceptance with a lot of help from many people and now I can face the day with optimism instead of alcohol. Because a lot of people helped me, I don't hate and distrust everyone as I once did. When I hear of someone killing themselves, I can easily imagine it being me when I was younger. -------------------- "I can't give you brains," said the Wizard of Oz to the Scarecrow, "but I can give you a diploma." - L. Frank Baum Posts: 381 | Registered: Sunday, March 16 2003 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 4034
|
written Thursday, March 18 2004 07:58
Profile
My Quasimodo yours is a truly insperational story. I salute you for your acts of courage to save yourself and your family. -------------------- "When one thinks to him or herself about who they really are, They usually come out of it empty handed for the question be -not who am i-, but -what have i acheived?-" Experimental forum Posts: 113 | Registered: Friday, February 27 2004 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 73
|
written Thursday, March 18 2004 11:20
Profile
Stughalf- Sounds like clinical depression to me. You should probably go see a psychologist about it so you can get treatment. Trust me, I know the symptoms. I'm fairly certain I have depression, and I talked to my guidance counselor about it today. She listed the symptoms. They were pretty much what you just said. As for the five questions... Providence: "Hey look! It's Vinny Camley! I'm bored. I think I'll kick him around a bit." I don't believe in God. I used to, until I realized the Bible was a load of crap, among other things. But I won't go there right now because I don't feel like it. Life's Meaning: I don't know. I have better things to worry about right now. I'll think about it when I'm through with my education, start my computer game business, and have time. What Makes Life Worthwhile: Not much. But that's probably the lack of neurotransmitters talking. I don't feel like answering the other questions. My semi-conscious mind is completely blank at the moment and I'd like to keep it that way. -------------------- My BoE graphics archive is finally getting started! Yay! I hope you like my graphics.My BoE Graphics An absurdly fun Flash game- Refridgerator Raid! --------- The Lyceum- A board for BoE. Yes it is. Really. Stop staring at me! Stop it, I say! Oh, sorry... Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
|
written Thursday, March 18 2004 11:40
Profile
Homepage
As an outsider here among so many Christian believers, I wanted to know: Is the suicide rate among Christian believers any lower than among the total population? Looking for an answer I found more than I had been looking for: an intersting website: American Association of Suicidology (AAS)(goal: to understand and prevent suicide and the following facts about suicide that pertain to the membership on this board: 1. Within a typical high school classroom (did not say how many students), it is likely that three students (one boy and two girls) have made a suicide attempt in the past year. (Four times more men than women kill themselves; but three times more women than men attempt suicide.) In self-report surveys, one in five high school students have stated that they have seriously considered attempting suicide during the preceding 12 months. Suicide ranks third as a cause of death among young (15-24) Americans behind accidents and homicide. 2. Socially isolated white male adolescents are generally found to be at high risk of completing suicide. 3. The vast majority of individuals who are suicidal often display clues and warning signs. So we as a community with many adolescent, socially isolated computer game players are highly likely to receive signals of suicidal persons! What should we look for and what can we do? A suicidal person might be suicidal if he or she: * Talks about committing suicide * Has trouble eating or sleeping * Experiences drastic changes in behavior * Withdraws from friends and/or social activities * Loses interest in hobbies, work, school, etc. * Prepares for death by making out a will and final arrangements * Gives away prized possessions * Has attempted suicide before * Takes unnecessary risks * Has had recent severe losses * Is preoccupied with death and dying * Loses interest in their personal appearance * Increases their use of alcohol or drugs What To Do Here are some ways to be helpful to someone who is threatening suicide: * Be direct. Talk openly and matter-of-factly about suicide. * Be willing to listen. Allow expressions of feelings. Accept the feelings. * Be non-judgmental. Don?t debate whether suicide is right or wrong, or feelings are good or bad. Don?t lecture on the value of life. (The recent homosexuality topic has illustrated how judgemental attitude influences communication. Let me summarize: it is not easy.) * Get involved. Become available. Show interest and support. * Don?t dare him or her to do it. * Don?t act shocked. This will put distance between you. * Don?t be sworn to secrecy. Seek support. * Offer hope that alternatives are available but do not offer glib reassurance. * Take action. Remove means, such as guns or stockpiled pills. * Get help from persons or agencies specializing in crisis intervention and suicide prevention. What to do if you feel suicidal If you find yourself feeling suicidal you need to get the appropriate help from a professional as soon as possible The following resources are available to help you: In the US: Internet: www.suicidehotlines.com Telephone: 1-800-784-2433 In the UK: Internet: www.samaritans.org Telephone: 08457 90 90 90 e-mail: jo@samaritans.org In Australia: Internet: www.samaritans.org.au Telephone (0 9381 5555 or 1800 198 313 email: jo@befrienders.org P.S. I am a member of the local parish for purely practical reasons: Imho, the parish provides a structure in which the families can embed themselves at the local level, I support this. If only they would not keep shooting themselves in the foot by talking so much about faith. [ Friday, March 19, 2004 10:05: Message edited by: yet another procrastinator ] Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 3621
|
written Monday, March 22 2004 14:34
Profile
The subject is very difficult, just because I don't know if I am going to help or to cause harm. According to me, suicide has ties with the need to explore. Humans like to explore : traveling, sport, feelings (drugs), taking risk. Suicide is, according to me, part of the risk. Drugs is not only for sad/depressive people. It is also an exploration (many great singers died because of drugs). I really appreciate that some people want to travel as far as their mind wants to go. I know it is dangerous, and sometimes I'd like to stop the process (what normal people call help), but sometimes I prefer to just let them go. Sometimes people go too far, but you could say the same thing for sailors. And sometimes people come back, and they may then bring us things (thoughts, feelings) than only they can bring. Posts: 62 | Registered: Thursday, October 30 2003 08:00 |
|
Babelicious
Member # 3149
|
written Monday, March 22 2004 19:06
Profile
Homepage
By the way, the fact that more women try to commit suicide but more men succeed is due to the simple fact that men kill themselves in rather final, violent ways (shooting, jumping off buildings, hanging) while women tend to commit suicide in a less determined fashion (overdose, wrist-slitting). This suggests to me that, in addition to men simply being culturally predisposed to more violent solutions, women may be less likely to attempt suicide with the full intent of dying. I.E., women may sometimes attempt suicide with a subconscious desire to be 'saved.' Our society certainly makes that a possibility. -------------------- Beatoff Valley: A story told out of order. Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
|
written Monday, March 22 2004 22:14
Profile
Homepage
quote:In the long run, nobody can stop a person who is determined to kill him/herself. So help can only be effective for those suicidal persons who are not in their right mind, i.e. who feel that they have to do it and who do not really really want to die. They are like blind people crossing a busy road without noticing. I cannot believe that there is anything to be learned from letting them go. What about those who want to risk their life in order to explore? Bull-fighting and extreme sports are at least entertaining. But what about the astronauts who explore the limits. Do they bring back anymore feelings or knowledge just because others have died? I feel, we should respect our own life and risk it only for endeavors that are worth it. Roman gladiators - fighting for their life in order to entertain - have no appeal for me. Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
|
Triad Mage
Member # 7
|
written Tuesday, March 23 2004 01:19
Profile
Homepage
Most Roman gladiators had no choice in the matter. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Vahnatai Did Do It desperance.net - We're Everywhere The Arena - God Will Sort The Dead ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
|
written Tuesday, March 23 2004 03:07
Profile
Homepage
I agree: quote:I do understand the appeal that people have after they have survived some sort of crisis or catharsis. They tend to have a view for the essentials in life and to be more forgiving. In addition, experience with one's personal limits is an important part of maturity. But risking one's life just for this end - like bungee jumping without checking for a brain aneurysm or the risk of a retinal detachment - seems imho extremely selfish and irreverent to my family and my society who have invested heavily in me. I admit to find it extremely difficult to stay non-judgmental in this respect. What do you think? [ Tuesday, March 23, 2004 03:09: Message edited by: yet another procrastinator ] Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 2628
|
written Tuesday, March 23 2004 03:59
Profile
Homepage
quote:Many of those great singers died because they had a problem with drug abuse. Those deaths were tragedies, not something to glorify. The biggest risk anyone can take (and one we do every day) is simply to live and to go on living. To make choices and accept the consequences of those choices. Every choice we make is a risk - do I go to this college or that one, ask that person out or not, accept this job or not, eat my own cooking (and for me, that one's a HUGE risk  )I've never understood 'adrenaline junkies' who have to live out on the edge so that they can feel they are living. There are many ways to explore our lives and our world without losing sanity, breaking bones or risking lives. Perhaps the closest I can come to understanding the adrenaline high is vicariously, through surviving close fights in MUDs and RPGs. [ Tuesday, March 23, 2004 04:01: Message edited by: Kyna ] -------------------- We meet and part now over all the world; we, the lost company, take hands together in the night, forget the night in our brief happiness, silently. -- Judith Wright My website Posts: 512 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 2476
|
written Tuesday, March 23 2004 05:42
Profile
quote:I agree, Kyna. But there are those who need to explore the very limits of their potentials. quote:To gain freedom, to open doors within you that otherwise won't open, some need to take risks that may seem unruly and outrageous to those who never feel that urge. Some have to walk on the edge and balance themselves there. Which is possible without dying or losing your sanity. [ Tuesday, March 23, 2004 06:08: Message edited by: ef ] -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |