Suicide
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Lifecrafter
Member # 233
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written Wednesday, March 10 2004 18:15
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quote:Yes, it would. Most suicides are well planed however. People who act on impulse are usually unsuccessful and regret it after they recover. I know a few people who have tried, and a few who have been sucessful. It seems like everyone I know has some sort of mental illness. Runs in the family, but I can't explain it in my friends. Which it another good point. If it's inherited, how can you blame it on the individual. I might as well say that it's my great great grandmothers fault for having kids. :rolleyes: Reincarnation scares me beause all I can think of is "isn't once enough?" It would be like the movie Ground Hog Day, only you wake up with a hangover every morning. Which is one reason I'm not having kids. -------------------- I'm just too selfish to be Zen. I mean, once you lose yourself and reach total enlightenment you don't care what the answer was in the first place. Ultimately a few good friends and a bag of Doritos is a better investment. There is no such thing as an over-active imagination. Hmm... These games are addictive and quite possibly dangerous. I fear the FDA will start regulating RPGs. Posts: 728 | Registered: Monday, October 29 2001 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Wednesday, March 10 2004 19:45
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Je dois ma vie à l'éternité. [ Wednesday, March 10, 2004 19:46: Message edited by: Custer, Reloaded ] -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX Misogynism is the wave of the future, but it sure pisses the womenfolk off. Shocking, isn't it? Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2940
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written Wednesday, March 10 2004 22:13
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Another reason I can think of to explain the increasing number of suicides in teens and in today's society in general is the value they give to their lives. Since kids we are surrounded with empty messages of fullfilment(sp?) from products, to uni. titles,to who knows what. Back in the early days of humanity everyone had to strive and fight every single day to survive, from getting their daily bread to protecting themselves or their loved ones from the dangers of the world was a hard fight. This, I believe, made them apreciate the sole purpose of living, breathing and feel the world around them. Ofcourse, in a fastfood internet message board society it is hard to get a grip on basic things like this. -------------------- "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve it through not dying." Posts: 469 | Registered: Thursday, May 1 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3310
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 00:01
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A great deal of people who attempts suicide, doesn't really want to die, when it comes to core. Often, to attempt to kill oneself is more like a last desperate call for aid, one that nobody can ignore. Posts: 756 | Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00 |
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DELETED Member # 21
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 01:18
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Seaweed is right about some suicides: I think it's very hard to generalise. Person A takes an overdose when he is sure his girlfriend is coming to see him: she then takes responsibility for the situation and he uses it as an emotional lever for the rest of the duration of the relationship. Person B makes all the preparations to kill himself, taking painkillers and alcohol, and making a pool out of waterproof tarpaulin, but pulls back from cutting his wrists with a circular saw because of the thought of his children. Person C hangs himself in his stairwell when he knows he will not be disturbed. You can't generalise about these three, who were all depressed, and say thay were all cries for help. In at least one case the act was a rational way out of what seemed an impossible situation. Depression is an illness, and it can be helped with medication, and as Alorael says, it is shameful to stigmatise mental illness, compared with physical illness. Ironically it is sometimes as somebody is recovering that they have the enrgy to act, as in the very depths of depression one does not have the will even to die. -------------------- KazeArctica: Oh yes. KazeArctica: Oh YES Posts: 93 | Registered: Sunday, September 30 2001 22:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4034
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 05:23
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I noticed that most of the topics displayed here talk about teens, well adults go through just as much, even more the some teens to. I think the only reason they don't do suicide as often is because they are more mature and not so much brought down by others people opinions of them. But adult suicide is still a major topic. So please let up on us poor teens. A young man in the town I'm currently living in took his lafe by throwing himself off of a bridge, it was his second attempt. Why would and adult want so badly as to end a life that seemed perfect for him. -------------------- "When one thinks to him or herself about who they really are, They usually come out of it empty handed for the question be -not who am i-, but -what have i acheived?-" Experimental forum Posts: 113 | Registered: Friday, February 27 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4034
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 05:45
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quote:I'm not talking about sitting a baby down, alone and watching it try to pick itself up. I'm setting a baby down with help from its mother to help it learn to walk. Where did you get a paraplegic baby? -------------------- "When one thinks to him or herself about who they really are, They usually come out of it empty handed for the question be -not who am i-, but -what have i acheived?-" Experimental forum Posts: 113 | Registered: Friday, February 27 2004 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1993
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 06:17
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quote:Non, je ne regrette rien. Because I could make the decision after, not to try it again. Because I could see, that I have some duties to my beeing here. One life will never be enough time to do them all, so the idea of reincarnation can save you from suicide by chasing yourself to death ...  ( ^ "" ` -------------------- ^ö^ Vegetarians are sexy. Solar power is the wave of the future. Posts: 1420 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 07:14
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Once again, Chuck, you are failing to see the fact that some people's minds are very chemically different to you or I. You are simply taking how you react to situations, and presuming the rest of humanity would act in a similar way. Let me say once again: Suicide is rarely to do with someone's strength as a person. It is overwhelmingly to do with a chemical inbalance in their brain. -------------------- KazeArctica: "Imagine...wangs everywhere...and tentacles. Nothing but wangs and tentacles! And no pants!" Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 08:03
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I must disagree there. I think the majority of suicides - or people with suicidal tendencies - aren't caused by a biological or chemical sickness. That doesn't say they have a conscious choice, or should be blamed for 'weakness', of course. But it's a psychological disorder, that is, caused by psychological motives. Anyone, imho, can be driven to suicidal notions, they don't have to have a 'chemical imbalance' in their brain. Not that that diminishes the problem in any way; it is probably just as hard to cure a psychological depression as a 'normal' sickness. -------------------- Visit The Santharian Dream and its RP board. Or the Encyclopaedia Ermariana! Got a brain? Go to Polaris! "It is as if everyone had lost their sense To a conspiracy for downfall and desperance And a wisp it is they have chosen as their beacon." Reinhard Mey (freely translated). Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4034
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 09:28
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I agree with Arancaytar I dont think that a chemical unbalance is the cause of suicide. If that was true we would be to much like animals,in my opinion. -------------------- "When one thinks to him or herself about who they really are, They usually come out of it empty handed for the question be -not who am i-, but -what have i acheived?-" Experimental forum Posts: 113 | Registered: Friday, February 27 2004 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 10:03
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quote:Not all suicides are the outcome of depression. But when they are the neurotransmitter serotonin always plays a part. Depression is treated - and treated successfully - with substances that regulate the output of serotonin. A lot of people tend to feel slightly down and/or depressed during the winter months, a season where serotonin production is low due to lack of sun and light. That's why light therapy, even sun studio helps a bit. It's interesting that the traditional spices in christmas cookies all work to maximize serotonin production. Our ancestors used what they found helpful. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 10:40
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Whether chemical imbalances are present in a majority of cases or not is a matter for scientific studies; I don't happen to have figures on hand. However, I suspect that for people with "suicidal tendencies" -- those for whom suicide is an ever-present thought, as opposed to those who get really upset at one point and try it once -- chemical imbalances are present more than you might think. And what, perchance, separates us fundamentally from animals, Chuck? While we do have more complicated brains -- "bigger" is not strictly correct, because a gorilla's brain is larger than a human's, because a gorilla's head is larger, and it's more a matter of what will fit inside the skull, according to what I've read, but "more complicated" works -- doesn't that just imply that the chemistry of our brains is fundamental to understanding human issues, like, say, depression? Huh. Interesting thought. Do mice (or lab rats) suffer from depression? Do their brains make serotonin, and if so, what happens when those amounts drop below normal levels? What about, say, monkeys or apes? We have physicists out there... do we have some biologists, too, who might be able to answer this? -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM, newly updated to v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 10:55
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The belief of chemical/bioligical causes for suicide may be related to the genetic cause-claim for homosexuality (I am not in the least implying that homosexuality is a disease, thank you). In both cases, the proclaimed physical touchable nature of the condition may bring a recognized status in our imperfect society with it. quote:Deplorable as this may be, imho it does not help to denigrate ourselves for refusing such a recognized status in our heart to the respective minority - because denigration of anxiety is no remedy against it. My hypothesis is that strong, non-depressed, heterosexuals tend to be afraid of questions concerning their rightful belonging to the majority and relish the enhanced self-assurance and righteousness that results if they can see themselves standing out against some minority (Crusaders need infidels to confirm their identity to themselves). It is not politically correct and even stupid - but that is the way we are. I do not think that attributing depression to a physical or homosexuality to a genetic cause will help against this anxiety about our own identity - but accepting that we have a weak side in ourselves might help a long way (read the e.g. "Kiss of the spiderwoman" for details) so that whatever minorities can feel accepted in our midst. [ Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:09: Message edited by: yet another procrastinator ] Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 11:33
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I feel uncomfortable with this. quote:How can you call anyone strong whose identity and selfassurance are dependant on belonging to the majority? Who fears to be questioned? Isn't that a sign of terrible weakness? quote:Nothing wrong with accepting our fear. But neither depression nor homosexuality are weaknesses that you have to protect your identity from. Or did I misunderstand you? -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 12:04
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quote:In approaching animal behavior, a cynical view is often the most correct one to take. An animal will rarely, if ever, act in a manner that has a good chance of adversely affecting its reproductive success. Some animals have been observed seemingly in a state of grief, often after the death of a companion or mate, but suicide still very rarely results from such a predicament. -------------------- Stughalf "The death-knell of the republic had rung as soon as the active power became lodged in the hands of those who sought, not to do justice to all citizens, rich and poor alike, but to stand for one special class and for its interests as opposed to the interests of others."- Theodore Roosevelt, 1903. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 12:23
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ef: You understood me better than I could have imagined. However, you did not need to be convinced - I guess. I tried to take the perspective of a macho male adolescent, who - deep down - is not very secure about his male (heterosexual) and sane identity, because this perspective is not uncommon on this board. I can identify with this perspective because it is still in my repertoire and I am still not sure in how far it influences my feeling and thinking (keeping it in check most of the time ,I hope). The contradictions that you pointed out are part of the perspective and imho are the cause of the anxiety I mentioned. Did you grow up without internal contradictions in your role? Lucky you. But then how can you formulate so well what I tried to suggest (albeit clumsily): quote:Will you allow me to use this idea in my signature? [ Thursday, March 11, 2004 13:32: Message edited by: yet another procrastinator ] Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 14:35
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If you like that thought, use it. quote:I'm female. That's why. I'm straight, but if I were not I would not lose one particle of feminine identity. And working with depressive women has taught me how extraordinarily strong they are. This is a male conflict, partly due to your tendency to identify with thought, with what you think is right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable. Thought gives you a direction, structures, defines, ensures control. It's easier for me. My innermost identity is based on feeling, not on thought. As long as I follow my feeling within a relationship I'm in tune with myself and feel to be honestly myself. Women's conflicts with role models refer to other aspects of life, as for instance how to be a good mother and yet have a life of your own. [ Friday, March 12, 2004 01:38: Message edited by: ef ] -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 15:19
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quote:Obviously his life didn't seem perfect to him, even if it did seem so to you. It may have been something you didn't know. Or it may have been clinical depression, again caused by chemical imbalance. Teenagers are prone to it because of elevated hormone levels that may cause regulation problems, but adults can and do become clinically depressed. quote:Someone who is depressed has a mind that is not functioning physically in the same way as yours. Keeping the will to live is a struggle for them, and the simple aid of a few pills can make all the difference. You wouldn't give someone with limited control of their legs no help in walking. Don't give someone with limited control of their emotions no help in staying sane and alive. More graphically, if your legs were hacked off, would you like people to tell you to get up and shake it off or would you like someone to stop the bleeding and attach prostheses? [Edit: Formattin[i]g problem[/i]s.] ?Alorael, who has a bipolar cousin. While he is medicated he is normal and fairly happy, although his life is in shambles form the first onset of his disorder. When he's off medication, he is a completely different person, and sometimes suicidal. Which situation is more normal and healthy? Is medication a sign of weakness or just a sign of different needs? [ Thursday, March 11, 2004 15:21: Message edited by: Alorael ] Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 1229
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written Thursday, March 11 2004 21:54
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quote:Just as a bit of trivia: I read that during the period of our history when romanticism flourished, when the book The Sorrows of Young Werther was published, it was once banned because the suicide rate went up when it hit the shelves! Strange beings, we humans are. Posts: 69 | Registered: Tuesday, May 28 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2628
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written Friday, March 12 2004 00:44
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Interesting discussion so far. If you're not interested in self-disclosure, skip this post. 11 years ago my youngest brother (he was in his mid twenties) committed suicide. It was a carefully planned act and none of us have ever been able to fathom why. I've come to terms with the fact that we'll never know why, other family members haven't come to terms with this yet. My mother is still convinced it was "her fault" somehow, when there's no fault to be apportioned. I've attempted suicide twice in my life. Each time I was at a low point in my life, and I honestly couldn't see any way out of the bad situation I was in. Fortunately, after the 2nd time (about 5 years ago) I was diagnosed with depression and post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), I was prescribed medication with regulated my serotonin levels and had some cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT). Last year I finally felt that I was 'rational' enough to make some major life changes, and I'm now happier than I'd ever believed was possible. I think the depression is finally gone  , although I still have the PTSD and have experienced symptoms this week.I think it was the combination of medication, CBT and loving support from family members (especially my children and my mother) that helped me. The serotonin regulated my brain chemistry, enabling me to get on with life while I was going through CBT. The CBT helped me to get over the perfectionist tendencies that were instilled in me from childhood. Some of us learn that it's not ok to make mistakes - and when we screw up we can carry the guilt for a very long time. For people who learn to be perfectionists, when our lives screw up it's a MAJOR disaster psychologically. We think that nobody likes us, that we're total failures, that nobody will miss us, that the world would be a far better place if we'd never existed and the only thing to do is to remove ourselves from the world - with the added benefit that this would end the pain we're feeling. And this is where the loving support did it's part. People had faith in me when I didn't have any in myself, and that got me through. At first I underwent treatment to justify their faith in me, eventually I reached the point where I wanted to recover for my own sake. I believe that both depression and PTSD are valid illnesses. My GP recently described PTSD as an injury (there are some studies that indicate it causes physical changes to the brain). The fact that people can recover from depression, or manage it with medication, indicates that it's an illness and not some moral flaw or weakness that deserves to be stigmatized. BTW, at the time of my first attempt there were a lot of things going wrong in my life - the final straw came when the man I was married to at the time told me to "snap out of it" within 2 months of my grandfather passing away and my brother's suicide. Telling a depressed person to "pull themselves together" only makes them feel like more of a failure and hastens the decision to suicide. Kyna -------------------- We meet and part now over all the world; we, the lost company, take hands together in the night, forget the night in our brief happiness, silently. -- Judith Wright My website Posts: 512 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |
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DELETED Member # 21
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written Friday, March 12 2004 02:31
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Thanks Kyna for being so honest. I hope that things continue to improve for you and you continue to heal. The maturity of most of the posts in this topic has been most impressive. It's a very difficult subject and proves to have touched several people here. Thank you all for being sensitive. -------------------- KazeArctica: Oh yes. KazeArctica: Oh YES Posts: 93 | Registered: Sunday, September 30 2001 22:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
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written Friday, March 12 2004 03:18
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I find it remarkable that so much encouragement originates from the relatively few experienced females on this board. Thank you! I still try to analyse though because I am afraid that just "feeling my felings"(ef) would carry me away, I might loose control - call that a male weakness if you want to. I sense there is something to learn, however, from what Kyna and ef wrote: quote: quote:We tend to see only part of ourselves - call it tunnel vision or a huge blind spot. Machos do not see their weak side, perfectionists do not see their failures and the fact that they may be loveable even if they are not perfect, and depressed people (at least women according to ef) do not see their strength. It can be overwhelming if we start so see something completely unexpected about ourselves. It is the same power that depresses the perfectionist who has failed and that gives hope to the depressive patient who sees that others value his/her life more than (s)he him/herself. Let us not forget to tap that power as soon as we can in favor of the helpful pills. We may all be at risk of depression but we cannot all take pills. [ Friday, March 12, 2004 03:25: Message edited by: yet another procrastinator ] Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4034
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written Friday, March 12 2004 05:34
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quote:elf put what I was saying about weakness in better words. Thank you anyway if chemicals control are thoughts, feelings, emotions. wouldnt we be much like animals that follow instict. wouldnt we chose to mate a specific time of the year instead of at random? Would it be chemicals right now that are telling me to wright this? -------------------- "When one thinks to him or herself about who they really are, They usually come out of it empty handed for the question be -not who am i-, but -what have i acheived?-" Experimental forum Posts: 113 | Registered: Friday, February 27 2004 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Friday, March 12 2004 06:37
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quote:Biocybernetics researches the mechanisms of control and regulation within living systems. Biologically we are a living system, consisting of a myriad of selfregulating circles that are all interwoven and work together. Thought and feeling trigger biochemical responses: your bloodpressure may rise when you see an exciting movie. The impulse to write may not be physical (though I know we could have a neverending debate over this point), but if you move your hands and type, a complex and complicated chain of neural and biochemical reactions has taken place to make that possible. Even minimal lack of a transmitter substance (and serotonin is a transmitter) can lead to major disturbances within regulation circles that need that substance's presence to be triggered into action. quote:I apologize for using your paragraph to get my own message through. Machos do not see their soft side; perfectionists do not see that they try to freeze themselves into the 'perfect form', while what makes them lovable is their openness to movement and change. Depressed people feel the heavy weight of power they possess but block and cannot use. [ Friday, March 12, 2004 06:44: Message edited by: ef ] -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |