Profile for Jumpin Salmon


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Gender and RPGs in General
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #53
I think so Kel, I think so.

Sex == Bad.

In any event, I entered this discussion to protest certain statements about 1st edition AD&D, and I feel I have adequately done so. Socially awkward teens are the problem, not the RPGs, and the reasons that the teens are socially awkward? Who knows, but it may stem from low self-esteem. Not difficult to feel that way in our culture.

I did notice another geek show is on tv now, called The Big Bang Theory. Cute, not as awkward as Freaks and Geeks, but still watchable. And frankly, just a tad bit more real than the SVU garbage. (Caveat - I've never watched a prime-time crime/medicine drama outside CSI)

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Gender and RPGs in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #46
Wow. Talk about an axe to grind. Like I said elsewhere, a person can find something to complain about in anything. The point about human males being physically stronger in reality, is that most of the fantasy worlds are terrestrial in nature. There is no attempt to say that the PC is not human. Wouldn't you find it confusing to be confronted with a game structure that dictates humans are max 4 feet tall, blue, and change sex by hormone? It doesn't happen because that means they aren't humans. So, yeah. I find it perfectly reasonable to expect humans to be humans. If you want to have some other species be the main PC type, by all means. It would make for an interesting RP experience, although an alien one. I think specifically of that Blizzard game, with the zergs. Man, what a difference that was. Still though, as noted, Blizzard had to include "humans" in that PC type.

I did find the harlot table. It certainly wasn't easy, as it didn't appear in the index. I had to rely on the keen eyes of that paper writer, as in the decade of playing AD&D, and the 28 years of owning the DM guide, I have never once used Appendix C, page 192 for random town encounters. It appears you have a 7% chance that the random nighttime encounter will be with a hooker. Wow. Imagine the odds that a person trying to meet you will actually run into you. Without making too much of it, there are hookers in every major and minor city in this country. I imagine that if you spend all night walking around, there is a 7% chance that a successful roll for encounter every third round will find you meeting someone willing to trade services for cash. Heck, in some parts of the city it will be higher than that, and more frequent.
It's sad to me that it means so much to someone else that a real part of real human experience is evident in Gygax's rpg. It doesn't say anything about the guy except that he was trying to capture reality in an otherwise fantasy environment. A DM that was concerned wouldn't have those encounters available. Heck, make it a theocracy nation state with strict punishment against harlotry. Still though, there will be prostitutes. Just look at Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia. They have 'em.
I do find it funny though that the author gets so worked up against all of this, and it is all DM choice. They may have well railed against Webster's Dictionary. Heck, I bet Oxford's has better words, and may even tell you what they mean.
Addit- I tried reading, rather than skimming, the article. What I gather is that post pubescent males are the source of the problem. Apparently, what is happening is that they are sitting around a gaming table with the freedom to create any world situation they desire, which oddly enough revolves around sex. So, yeah, I can totally see a girl getting completely freaked out if they stumbled into that situation. But again, it isn't the RPG that is creating this situation. Well, I suppose you could blame them, much as fraternities are blamed for the the moral failings that occur within.
Maybe we're just true to our nature, and it sometimes gets amplified? I dunno, and I agree that no one should suffer through the indignity of being forced into a RP role they don't seek. Bad DMs are a dime a dozen, and there are flocks of male gamers who love them.
Re-addit - just because I appreciate the irony. The authors were so focused on finding any instance of stereotyping, that they made the mistake of saying "Given the lavish detail of these adjectives and nouns, it is not difficult to picture a group of young men seated around a gaming table, rolling percentage dice and guffawing at their luck. Picture also one or two young women who were allowed to join the game, and it becomes obvious how a female player might encounter a hostile, male-centered environment even when the male players welcome her and treat her well." This was focused at that harlot table, which contains 12 different "types" of prostitute. Oddly enough, that word wasn't used. What I appreciated was that on the previous page there were 20 types of drunk that could be encountered. Anyhow, it seems obvious that the authors were projecting, just a touch, when they wrote this paper. Whenever I see someone write "it is not difficult to picture" I cringe. They may as well hold up a sign stating "Come here to see our bias!"

[ Thursday, May 01, 2008 20:49: Message edited by: Jumpin Salmon ]

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Important Message About Board Upgrade in General
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #21
I was offending Microsoft, not anyone registered on this forum.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Gender and RPGs in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #39
Randomizer - there are no limits on charisma other than racial, and those limits are only vs non-same races.

Yes Slarty. A 00 exceptional strength means +3,000 weight allowance. But the 50 means +1,000. Open doors is essentially the same, but Bend Bars jumps from 25% to 40%. Given that exceptional human males in real life are, in fact, stronger than exceptional human females, this seems to be a decent representation.

Are you really just complaining because of how DMs would use the structure? It seems odd, really, to blame the system when in reality it is the Monty Haul mindset which creates the problem.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Gender and RPGs in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #36
First Edition rules state that a strength of 18 means 180 lbs in a military press. 18/00 is the same. Apparently, that means exceptional strength fighters are better able to use their strength, much like a trained cage fighter is better able to use that strength when compared against someone not trained to kill.

I think it boils down to perception. Anyone can find any fault they want in practically anything. I don't see, in the 1st edition rules, the misogyny that is seen by Zorro. Maybe having lived around women that don't play gender roles (or games) my entire life has created a me which isn't sensitized because it isn't part of my reality. I think it is kind of queer that fantasy artists place such an emphasis on EMPHASIZING characteristics. They give the women and men giant boobs, tiny waists, huge swords, and all of this is just caricature. I mean, how many people bought into the Norman-Gor milieu for real? That's just crazy.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Gender and RPGs in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #33
I have dim recollections of playing Pools, so I'll take your word on it. But really, other than physical muscle mass, what are the differences in the 6 characteristics between men and women? I don't recall seeing that either is smarter, wiser, or more dexterous. Zorro was talking about the AD&D First Edition rules, which I own, not a computer game based off of them. So, I do stand by my statement. I do not believe that any woman is capable of the feats of strength found in the tasks of the world's strongest.
Feel free to correct me. :)

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Gender and RPGs in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #29
This topic intrigues me, as it seems to dance around a central issue without actually touching it. Sexism, and some of the other big -isms, all deal with stereotypes, but concentrate on the negative aspects thereof. There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting that women, in general, are different than men. Some of the ways are superficial, some are not.

The trouble comes when blanket statements are made. Like, all women are weaker then men. Hah! Even more subversive are extrapolations, like women (since women give birth) are better caregivers then men. Or men are better soldiers than women. None of these is always true, or even mostly true. They are just an easy way to categorize people, and not persons. It would be far better to say that Mary, Sally, Nellie, and Steve are pretty weak, while John, Stefan, Michelle, and Sarah are fairly strong.

RPGs are essentially products that are marketed to a target audience. There is no escaping the commercialism of that, since it is what drives people to create. Vogel needs shelter, food, water, and warmth in order to care for himself and his family. Creating a marketable product gives him access to those things. He does a decent job of skirting around the various problems of sexism, by creating NPCs that are not standard gender roles. Female mayors and leaders, female soldiers. A lot of male shopkeepers, and the occasional husband wife team which puts the husband doing heavy work, and the wife doing light work. It would be interesting to have NPCs which occasionally traded tasks, but that level of minutiae in game development is likely to not pay off in additional sales, or maybe even get noticed. I mean, if every third visit to the lizard tender had him over at the healer, and his wife tending the lizards, would anyone notice?
quote:
By Zorro:
You know, we've come a long way from the old days of RPGs with blatant misogyny. In case you're too young to remember, the first edition AD&D game codified in the rules that women were weaker.

I remember playing DnD and then Ad&d and thinking how odd it was that portraits were so ... magnificent. Now it is obvious that it was marketing. The game text wasn't so sexist.
quote:
From First Edition rules, AD&D
Strength is a measure of muscle, endurance, and stamina combined. For purposes of relating this ability to some reality, assume that a character with a strngth of 3 is able to lift a maximum of 30 lbs weight above his or her head in a military press, while a character with 18 strength will be able to press 180 lbs in the same manner. ... Furthermore, fighters with an 18 strength are entitled to ... determine exceptional strength. This exceptional strength increases damage done and hit probability, and the weight a character can carry, as well as ability to force a door.

18/01-50 Maximum strength possible for human female (or gnome male)
18/00 Maximum human strength.

So, unless you are a fighter, males and females are of equal strength. There is a nod to exceptional strength in males being greater than that of females. This is real. But AD&D is not some deep well of stereotypes that has produced several generations of computer games filled with sexism.

That honor belongs to the creator of Conan, and the times in which he lived.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Important Message About Board Upgrade in General
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #16
Every other board update I have experienced requires a new cookie. Firefox does store passwords for you, but it does it by form, so you might have to re-fill it in, but it is stored for you. What? You don't use Firefox? I suppose Earth Month is over, so it is okay to go back to global warming/recession/pollution/asteroid impact causing Microsoft products.
You know. The ImInUrPuter Exploring one. Yeah. Nasty stuff. Get Firefox.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Future Series - What Would You Like? in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #63
The real Alorael™ would have enabled HTML for that post.

Imposter!

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
While We Wait for the Next Chapter in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #141
quote:
Originally written by Excalibur:

*Looks at original locked thread, looks here.....*

So, em, did I miss something?

Besides the request, in that thread, to keep non-episode related chatter to a minimum, and the resultant increase in said chatter?

I figure in time we will require OoC threads to accompany all serious threads. Or, we could just abstain from posting until the Update™.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Spidweb Keygens in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #12
It was a direct quote from JV, and I did that more to protect his interests than my own. :P

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Spidweb Keygens in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #9
There is something about diminishing returns that may come into play here. Sure, Jeff could get better "security" on his games, but at what cost? I'm sure, since his family (plus 1 employee) depends on this income, that he has carefully considered the costs and benefits. He could easily implement certain things, but he has stated that it isn't worth his time. Is he going to pursue all thieves? Probably not. Is he going to make it hard for honest people to steal his game? Yes, he does that. Because, frankly if you are the type of person that searches for keygens in order to make a game playable, you haven't grasped the ease of spending 30 seconds to place a web order, or 120 seconds to place a telephone order, and probably don't have the $28 anyways.
You'll see some folks just play the demo over and over. This is because they aren't the type of person which looks for keygens, and have admitted that they can't afford the game. They might buy it later on though. I'm sure Jeff could make some sort of one-use ftp passphrase system to allow full-version downloads, but this would hurt dial-up purchasers who would essentially be buying it twice. I think Jeff has it nailed, unless someone can think of another system which has no more costs than the current one, and brings more benefits to both his bottom line and customers.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Spidweb Keygens in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #4
quote:
Written by J Vogel:
Meh. That's what ******** do. Can't do anything about it.
I think he has been successful in counting on humanity to be honest. Because it is far easier to pay the guy 20 or 30 bucks than spend hours searching for a virus laden keygen.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
SPAM in General
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Profile #75
Over on this coast we equate Democrat with interferists, and Republican with de-regulation.

It turns out that neither is all that great a philosophy.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
A question. in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #35
quote:
Originally written by Goldenking:

War and famine simply aren't going to do it anymore
Don't forget, China has pollution, and with that comes famine. Interesting times. At some point, one of the predictive scripts will be accurate.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
So...after Avernum, and Geneforge is done...what's next? in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #3
Another thread on this.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
SPAM in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #65
Now now, just because you didn't start it, doesn't mean you can't participate.

Dang I miss Boston, a city where politics is more important than ... anything. Good times, and SoT is right, signature gatherers and the like rarely stood on formalities when pushing their agenda. Heh. I lived on Bunker Hill, and that was tame compared to some of the other areas. :rolleyes:

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
The great artists in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #13
My art collection is eclectic, at best. This is what hangs over the toilet.

IMAGE(http://www.rangelights.com/images/Public/100_3653.JPG)

All the old stuff, and oils, are stored away during construction. I've got some neat Persians that aren't attributed, as well as some old French watercolors. An ancestor was in the foreign service and received some nice gifts during that tenure. About all I can afford is the picture hooks. ;)

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
A question. in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #27
The only way to curb growth is to decrease population. With increasing demand for limited resources it is very likely that there will be a corrective reduction in world population.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
MicroSoft XP SP3 Is out! in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #28
Huh. Geneforge 4 works well with Windows 2000. And I know I've played the other games. What doesn't work well with W2k is the stuff designed for Vista or XP.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
A question. in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #23
So, are you saying that raptors can't be heat-shielded, or that no one has tried?

This could be a bizness opportunaty for someone.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Deathmatch Tournament -- Round Two, Part Two in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #67
But, this isn't real. Your job, what you do, is real. There is a vast difference. But whatever, I guess you are in charge.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
SPAM in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #59
Self-limiting as it may be, the Interwebs need an entrance exam.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Deathmatch Tournament -- Round Two, Part Two in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #60
Perhaps if this thread had an OoC version it would be treated with the respect it deserves?

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
An intellectual tidbit in General
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Member # 5755
Profile #17
Really. Not at all necessary to post that picture. It has absolutely no relation to this topic.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..."
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00

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