Spidweb Keygens
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Apprentice
Member # 17415
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written Monday, April 28 2008 06:34
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So, I was wondering what does Jeff think of the fact that every single one of his games, has a working keygen? I am wondering why he does not change the system so it isn't so easy to "hack" it. I am also wondering whether or not he really cares, or if he is content with a small percent of the subscribing players of his games, being legal. And if he is content, is that small percent making you enough money that you don't need another job, or do you have somehting else then aking games. And if you do do something other then make games, what is that? -------------------- It's a lonely thing floating out on the sea. Posts: 14 | Registered: Monday, April 28 2008 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, April 28 2008 06:53
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Jeff makes computer games as his full-time occupation. What he thinks of those things is that they're bad enough that talking about them here is a bannable offense, so don't. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7557
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written Monday, April 28 2008 06:55
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I am wondering if I should comment here, but I'll take a chance. I sometimes wonder the wisdom of using the same system all the time throughout his games, as it has proved amazingly easy to crack. Will Jeff ever try a new system? Would be interesting to see how many members stop posting in the new forums afterwards :P (Awaits lock & stock) -------------------- *Eyes potential targets* Posts: 942 | Registered: Sunday, October 8 2006 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Monday, April 28 2008 07:05
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I think Jeff counts on many people being honest enough to pay for the games even if they could steal it, and that the bulk of people who are dishonest will find a way to steal his games anyway, even if a tougher system is put into place. Dikiyoba. -------------------- Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded • Episode 5: Spiderweb Resistance Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, April 28 2008 08:27
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quote:I think he has been successful in counting on humanity to be honest. Because it is far easier to pay the guy 20 or 30 bucks than spend hours searching for a virus laden keygen. -------------------- Synergy, et al - "I don't get it." Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, April 28 2008 09:53
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Jeff has explained his philosophy before, and it's (slowly) spread. Make a game irritating enough to pirate, and most people will pay because $25 is worth less than hours and blood pressure wasted. Many pirates don't purchase, either; they either pirate or do without. So Jeff can be angry at people who steal his games, but most of them probably aren't lost sales. They're just irritants. That said, I'd bet that most players of his games don't register them at all. Of those who register, the vast majority probably do it legally. Remember, most computer users aren't savvy enough to manage to crack his games even if it occurs to them to do so. We on the forums are a minority; we're not even the target demographic! Ultimately, making the games harder to crack would probably make them more irritating for customers and cost sales, it would take time, and in the end it still probably wouldn't result in a huge drop in piracy or a huge increase in games purchased. Not worth the effort. —Alorael, who will add only that Jeff is probably paid for his occasional freelance columns of game design, particularly being an indy shareware developer, and that most of his income apparently comes from selling these games. It works well enough for him. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, April 28 2008 11:07
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quote:That's a safe bet. At some point in an interview, Jeff cited the ratio of people who download demos to people who actually register, and IIRC his registering percentage was something like 2% or 3% (which, as far as these things go, is pretty good — many game-designers do worse). That said, why is this topic not locked? -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 17415
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written Monday, April 28 2008 11:21
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I never really considered that the people who d hack, aren't going to start buying it once they can't hack it. But I still think it's much too easy to hack, that average person whether or not they are willing to buy it, can find a hack in under 10 minutes me thinks. But either way, if security is beefed up or not, I don't think anything will change I suppose. And why would this topic be locked, it's not breaking any rules as far as I know. -------------------- It's a lonely thing floating out on the sea. Posts: 14 | Registered: Monday, April 28 2008 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, April 28 2008 11:38
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This isn't locked because it's only distasteful and it could conceivably be productive. So to push it along, what would you, BlueRivets, suggest as a way to make the games more secure? —Alorael, who sees enough piracy of games by big-name companies with serious protection schemes that he's pretty sure any effective means would be prohibitively expensive or difficult. Doubly so if it still needs to leave the game downloadable and playable without an internet connection. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, April 28 2008 11:52
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There is something about diminishing returns that may come into play here. Sure, Jeff could get better "security" on his games, but at what cost? I'm sure, since his family (plus 1 employee) depends on this income, that he has carefully considered the costs and benefits. He could easily implement certain things, but he has stated that it isn't worth his time. Is he going to pursue all thieves? Probably not. Is he going to make it hard for honest people to steal his game? Yes, he does that. Because, frankly if you are the type of person that searches for keygens in order to make a game playable, you haven't grasped the ease of spending 30 seconds to place a web order, or 120 seconds to place a telephone order, and probably don't have the $28 anyways. You'll see some folks just play the demo over and over. This is because they aren't the type of person which looks for keygens, and have admitted that they can't afford the game. They might buy it later on though. I'm sure Jeff could make some sort of one-use ftp passphrase system to allow full-version downloads, but this would hurt dial-up purchasers who would essentially be buying it twice. I think Jeff has it nailed, unless someone can think of another system which has no more costs than the current one, and brings more benefits to both his bottom line and customers. -------------------- Synergy, et al - "I don't get it." Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 14343
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written Monday, April 28 2008 13:24
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I myself have seen keygens available on peer to peer sites (and no, I didn't download them I was just doing a search out of curiousity) and wondered what Jeff thinks of them. Maybe he's hoping that the people who do use the keygens will buy the game eventually? or that they will find out about his other games and start playing them and eventually make purchases? Sorta like a test run or something.... [ Monday, April 28, 2008 13:26: Message edited by: TobyLinn ] -------------------- "And if I had the choice I'd take the voice I got / Cause it was hard to find. / You know I've come too far to wind up right back where I started." - Concrete Blonde (True) http://tobylinn.awardspace.com http://toby-linn.stumbleupon.com/ Posts: 72 | Registered: Wednesday, February 20 2008 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Monday, April 28 2008 13:54
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quote:It's unlikely that somebody who has the full game will pay $30 dollars to get the same thing again. I think an important thing is pricing - even at the slightly higher $28/30 price tag, they're way cheaper than any "professional" game. I can pay £13 or so pounds for a SW game that I'll be playing for a long time, or £30 for a game from a big company that I might play for, if not an equal length of time given my BoA fanboi status, a similar one. Financially, SW games appeal to me, and it just so happens that I feel Jeff's games are good enough for him to be charging more - in effect, I'm getting a bargain. Salmon: You shouldn't have censored that. Let's add a little spice to the thread! -------------------- Nikki's Nook - a heart on a string that's about to be cut. Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, April 28 2008 14:34
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It was a direct quote from JV, and I did that more to protect his interests than my own. :P -------------------- Synergy, et al - "I don't get it." Argon - "I'm at a loss for words..." Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Monday, April 28 2008 14:47
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When I had sent Jeff links to some cracks of his games hosted on sites whose usage policy prohibits that kind of illegal content, his response was something like "thanks, but people who use cracks aren't our target audience". quote:Correction: somebody who has a stolen (cracked) version is unlikely to be the kind of person who pays for games he plays. (Although I've heard of a few exceptions.) There are some shareware programs for which I paid registration fee despite being satisfied with free version, just because I wanted to support the developers. PS This reminds me, I haven't paid for KoL in over a year. (Their "donation" system has such a strong ingame benefit that I think of it more as purchasing game wealth than as supporting game development. So sometimes you can get more by giving people less and appealing for help more directly.) [ Monday, April 28, 2008 14:50: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Board Administrator
Member # 1
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written Monday, April 28 2008 15:03
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I think it is obvious that it is upsetting. Nobody enjoys having people steal from you or your family. It is completely impossible to make something hackerproof. That doesn't mean that the theft is moral or, really, anything but theft. My main goal is to keep honest customers from suffering due to the actions of the thieves. I think that is all that needs saying. All this thread does is advertise keygens to people who might not know about them. - Jeff Vogel -------------------- Official Board Admin spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |