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Root of all evil in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Wednesday, January 26 2005 12:04 Profile #129
quote:
Originally written by SkeleTony:

Our universe has limits as described by our physical laws and theories and these same laws of behavior/operation rule out transcendent gods.
This statement is the root of my disagreement with your argument. These physical laws and theories were created by human beings, and we are the ones applying them to the universe, not the other way around. Throughout human history, new laws and theories have surplanted old ones, turning the scientific world on its head. Isn't it a bit brazen to assume that what we understand now is truth? At best, you're applying an imperfect tool to a potentially infinite subject. How can you be so confident?

[ Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:05: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Repeal Amendment XXII in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Wednesday, January 26 2005 07:27 Profile #12
Despite being a dem, I would be utterly okay with McCain in '08.

The fact that a president is eligible for two terms is bad enough as it is. I think a single 6 year term would be better - more could be accomplished in that duration than in four years, and decisions would hopefully be less politicized, as there would be no reelection at stake.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Root of all evil in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Wednesday, January 26 2005 06:14 Profile #125
SkeleTony: I still think that everything you're asserting is flawed because it's limited by what you're able to perceive, whether on your own or with some tool. We *now* have the tools to prove to a blind person that color exists, but that wasn't so a hundred years ago. We have the tools to accomplish and prove all kinds of things that previously didn't exist. Who are you to say we won't develop the tools or the senses to discover whether God exists? That seems short-sighted to me.

I'm willing to agree that, going head to head, the Christian God is as unbelievable as Santa Claus. This is because there's pretty good evidence that both were constructed by man. However, there is nothing close to an adequate explanation for existence, of which our world represents an infinitesimal part. Assuming you accept the Big Bang theory, there are still big questions out there: What happened before that? How can something come out of nothing? It really can't, based on the logic that you espouse, because your logic is chained to the existence of time and the laws of cause and effect. It seems to me that there must be something else going on that's bigger than/different than/outside the fourth dimension. That's a pretty big crack to fill - do you have a good or sound explanation?

I don't worship God because, like you, I don't see evidence of any sort of interaction with the world. We could be just as insignificant as ants, for all I know. However, I am unable to rule out the possibility of something divine out there, because for me everything about existing is just so crazy, when I stop to think about it. Maybe I'm just not that smart and am too easily overawed, but it seems to me to be foolish to rule out possibilities, however unsettling they may be.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Root of all evil in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Tuesday, January 25 2005 12:52 Profile #118
quote:
Originally written by SkeleTony:

Now let's say the claimant tells me that vampires are entities which exist, just as I exist, but are not bound by linear time, are "undead"(defined as having will, survival instincts, emotions and intellect but not being physically "alive"), omniscient(defined as knowing ALL, even that which has not yet come to pass), omnimalevolent(purely "evil" and omnipresent(everywhere at once). THIS "vampire" I will be a 'strong' a-vampirist' towards.

Why?

For the same reason I conclude that round squares do not exist. Because a sentient cannot know that which has not transpired yet and even if he COULD, he cannot maintain a "will((ability to ponder or make decisions himself) if he has such certainty of knowledge. ALso this entity cannot be omnimalevolent AND omnipresent in a universe where ANY "good" exists for any reason. Teh existence of "good" cannot be explained by other free willed beings because these beings also could not have said free will if these vampires have certainty of knowledge of events which are yet to transpire.

and so on...
A blind person could make a similar assertion about color not existing, if he was limited to his terms and his current comprehension of color. As things stand, our current comprehension of a god/gods/God is based on our understanding of concepts like infinity/omniscience/omnipotence which, based on our very finiteness, I believe are impossible to conceive of in full, just as a blind person can't conceive of color.

Certainly, for practical purposes, color does not exist for the blind person. Likewise, for you and I, God as defined by any of the world's religions may not be apparent. However, using the logic you present to rule out the existence of a god/gods/God, even one couched in the terms of one of the major world religions, seems to me to be the height of arrogance, because frankly, you and I have no means of truly comprehending the infinite, omnipresent, and omniscient, let alone what's occurring on Earth outside of the realm of our experience). It's as though we lack a sense to perceive these things, just as a blind person lacks sight. Given that, it seems a bit hasty to me to make such a weighty assertion such as "God does not exist in reality."

EDIT: Please also note that I think that the major world religions are just as arrogant in asserting that they have the monopoly on the concept of the divine. Given how little any of us know about "Life, the Universe, and Everything," I think the most reasonable assertion is that the jury's still out on divinity.

[ Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:56: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Root of all evil in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Monday, January 24 2005 12:41 Profile #111
The topic is looking for the root of all evil, not necessarily the cause. As for the cause, I would say that sentience is necessary for the production of evil, but not sufficient; evil requires both a stimulus (some act) as well as someone perceiving the act and passing judgement on it (from the sentience).
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Root of all evil in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Monday, January 24 2005 09:23 Profile #109
I guess good and evil are truly relative, as we freely assign these values to natural occurances. The alligator probably saw the dog as either a threat to its nest or as food (or both!), but probably doesn't consider its act to be good or evil. You love your dog, and so see the act as evil. A neighbor, on the other hand, who was annoyed by your dog's shrill bark early in the morning as well as the "gifts" it left in his lawn could see the alligator's act as a good thing.

I think this is a great example of how the root of evil is sentience. :)

[ Monday, January 24, 2005 09:25: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Root of all evil in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Monday, January 24 2005 06:11 Profile #104
To SkeleTony - I think you've done a good job defining how ours is a world of limitations. I think that using this as a basis for explaining god(s) out of the picture is incorrect, however. In your definition, you assert that a god would have to follow the limitations of our universe. In essence, this seems to me to be assuming that a god would have to obey the rules as we understand them. I think the flaw here is that we certainly don't have a monopoly on the rules (they've tended to change over the years, and undoubtedly will continue to do so), and given that, there's no reason why god(s) could not exist outside the scope of our (what I perceive to be very) limited perception and obsession with limitation. It does not follow that because I am finite, everything else must be. A person declaiming the existence of God seems to me not disimilar to a blind person declaiming the existence of color.

To Alex - Lighten up, man. This is all for fun.

For others - Does the root of evil necessarily have to be evil itself? I would argue that sapience/sentience is not.

[ Monday, January 24, 2005 06:13: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Root of all evil in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Wednesday, January 19 2005 11:52 Profile #35
Having given it some thought, I think that the root of all evil is society. Given that there seems to be some sort of consensus here (I'm kind of grasping at straws) that the state of nature the animals live in is not evil, evil can only be rooted in what humanity has done to avoid the state of nature. In creating rules (whether divinely inspired or no), certain behaviors, actions, or things/people themselves become outliers, and so are considered evil.

The temptation then is to condemn society, but I think to do so is mistaken, given all the benefits or "good" that society provides. In fact, I think one could just as easily assert that society is the root of all good as well.

[ Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:54: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Root of all evil in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Tuesday, January 18 2005 05:42 Profile #18
Perhaps it isn't the root of evil, but a good right hand of evil would be oil. It inspires greed and war. It creates single-resource extraction societies, which keep the rich rich and seem to promote extremism amongst the desperate poor. Our economies depend on it like a drug. I'm waiting for other energy sources to be developed so that we can kick the habit.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Age Poll in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Tuesday, January 18 2005 05:34 Profile #29
"It's deja vu all over again"

- Yogi Berra

Get some culture, people! Learn more about Yogi here.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Age Poll in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Friday, January 14 2005 11:53 Profile #10
Look here.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Age Poll in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Friday, January 14 2005 11:16 Profile #8
Deja vu all over again.

I'm 27.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
New look for www.spidweb.com in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Friday, January 14 2005 05:35 Profile #26
Hey - don't knock arcade jump & runs! Hudson's Adventure Island was one of my faves back in the day. :D
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
New look for www.spidweb.com in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Thursday, January 13 2005 13:04 Profile #0
I dig it. What do y'all think?
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Fantasy Stories in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Wednesday, January 12 2005 06:50 Profile #15
quote:
Originally written by Aedrac:

I'm currently writing (off and on) a "fantasy story" which is done in the style of a Homeric Epic. Yes, it is indeed an epic, and will be very long when I finish. I started the project with the knowledge that I won't finish until I'm well into my adulthood.

I'm on the 3rd book (kinda just started it), and so far it's about a young man who turns out as a savior to his people, with a little help of the Gods, of course. This is as much of a learning project as it is a constructive one: I've been researching the little style-oids of Homer and have been digging up examples of certain Gods' personalities. Quite fun.
You're writing in dactylic hexameter?
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Avernum vs Exile in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Friday, January 7 2005 11:13 Profile #8
quote:
Originally written by Lighter:

*plays spooky music* Aargh! it's the topic that wouldn't die!
Actually, this is the topic that won't die.

Someone please lock this.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Speculating about Avernum 4's plot in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Thursday, January 6 2005 12:06 Profile #76
I kind of enjoyed the Warcraft III approach of having an utterly outside influence come into play that turn all interracial relations on their heads in the game world. I reckon this would be the sort of approach Jeff will have to take in order to make the game fresh, given the progressively increasing scope from game to game in the series. Unfortunately, demonic/alien/whatever invasion has been done to death. Still, there are other cliches around to draw upon... time travel, cross-dimensional travel, meeting the people on the moon, an evil force drawing down the death comet, the messianic hero, etc.

[ Thursday, January 06, 2005 12:32: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Recommended Reading in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Thursday, January 6 2005 05:21 Profile #38
Dude, nothing really all that substantive happened in his last four books or so, and that's after about 3600 pages, at over $100 total for the hardbacks - not worth it. There's too much better concise and cogent literature out there that doesn't rip off Frank Herbert and others.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Recommended Reading in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Wednesday, January 5 2005 12:05 Profile #34
I just thought that Jordan's plot was going nowhere, and so lost interest. The wheels were spinning, but they weren't touching the ground.

I think that Goodkind, on the other hand, has some serious issues. The spinoff into Objectivism aside, his writing incorporates what seems to me to be an obsessive amount of misogyny, which is a bit of a turn-off in my book.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Recommended Reading in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Wednesday, January 5 2005 05:22 Profile #31
quote:
Originally written by Seilike:

I'll put a vote against Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. He could be a good writer, but he needs a severe beating from his editor. The books go on and on without ever really getting anywhere.
I'll second that. His series was good through about book 4, and then I lost track and, shortly after, interest.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Spiderweb Software games... On handhelds? in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Monday, January 3 2005 09:38 Profile #14
quote:
Originally written by Aedrac:

While I was only using Nintendo as an example, we'll stay with it. Nindendo owns rights to the games put on it's consoles, that's how they even get there. I was really thinking more of Microsoft and the XBox when I made that comparison, but whatever.

And secondly, cross-platform gaming has nothing to do with anything I said. I'm sorry.
Nintendo owns the rights to license, or grant its "seal of approval" on particular products, but it doesn't "own the rights" to the games put onto its consoles, and the cross-platform issue has everything to do with it. Consider Mortal Kombat Deception. This game was developed for every platform under the sun, and I assure you, Midway, not Nintendo, "owns the rights" to it. While Midway may have reduced some of the edgier aspects of their game to honor Nintendo's reputation as a more family-oriented system, it still likely owes little to them. If Nintendo "owned the rights" to every game on its platform, then why would it allow cross-platform games at all? It certainly doesn't for its own brands - Mario, Metroid, Zelda.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Recommended Reading in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Monday, January 3 2005 09:19 Profile #28
quote:
Originally written by Tea and Toast with a Red Dragon:

If you truly like Gabriel Garcia Marquez, you will probably like Isabel Allende, The House of the Spirits. It is as good but different. Magical realism is a wonderful form of writing.
I read Allende first and was charmed, but having since read Marquez, I now find her works to be incredibly derivative. Granted, she has her own very interesting familial political edge, but otherwise, in every way Marquez has been superior.

[ Monday, January 03, 2005 09:20: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Spiderweb Software games... On handhelds? in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Monday, January 3 2005 07:10 Profile #12
quote:
Originally written by Aedrac:

I hope you realize that the DS is owned by Nintendo, therefore everything on it is owned by Nintendo. I also hope you realize that the console game world is much different than the PC game world.
I know that you want to be cool and add to the smackdown, but you're wrong. All software developed for Nintendo platforms is not owned exclusively by Nintendo; just think of any of the dozens of titles that are cross-platform (e.g. most fighting games, Megaman franchise, Sega titles), as well as any of the well-known third party developers that obviously aren't owned by Nintendo (e.g. Capcom, Konami).

On your second point, I would argue that the two worlds are growing closer together all the time, as console systems are matching/surpassing the capabilities of PCs. Consider several prominent PC-console cross platform titles such as Knights of the Old Republic or Halo. Hell, Final Fantasy VII was even released for PC years ago, and if you want to go even further back, Ultima III and IV made it from the PC to the NES, a system far less capable than today's handhelds.

Please think before you post.

For the record, I agree that the premise for this topic is dumb, and not worth speculating on.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
C++ question in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Wednesday, December 29 2004 12:50 Profile #2
I second that. If you're building it with ASCII characters (which I assume to be the case, given you're a beginner), your only option would be to clear the screen and then redraw the table.

[ Wednesday, December 29, 2004 12:51: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Avernum 4 wish list. in General
Drew
By Committee
Member # 4233
 written Wednesday, December 29 2004 05:50 Profile #6
quote:
Originally written by The assassin whose named 'Gao':

My wish is having a real animating characters (like geneforge) and play as different kind of people (like vahnatai) .
And let player choose side like nethergate .
Or let player join any side like geneforge .
That would be great .

(And little hand drawn picture like in geneforge would be great.)
Your moniker makes the grammar angels weep.

Read about "whose" here.

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to Spiderweb. Leave your sanity at the door.

[ Wednesday, December 29, 2004 05:58: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ]
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00

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