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Wouldnt an Exile/Avernum MMORPG be awesome? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, October 24 2006 12:58 Profile Homepage #26
quote:
Originally written by Rotdhizon Calzone:

quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

2. Turn-based format doesn't sound very good for MMO play.
That's bunk! The direct forerunners of MMORPGs were all turn-based, and I can attest that the systems worked quite well. Most famously, there was the original Neverwinter Nights on AOL, which was based on the SSI Gold Box engine. There was also the Shadow of Yserbius (and its prequel whose name I forget) done by Sierra on INN. Great games. Personally I prefered them to MUDs precisely because they were turn-based, and they didn't require that my eyes be constantly glued to the screen the whole time I played for fear of not healing a companion in time to prevent his death, or my own.
How did these games work? Did turns last several minutes to make sure everybody got a chance to act? What happened if you failed to act during your turn? How many players were there in each world/server/whatever?

PS Alorael's description makes Exile/Avernum 1 sound like a very logical setting for a MMORPG.

[ Tuesday, October 24, 2006 13:03: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Ever Wonder How Vlish Get Around? in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, October 24 2006 08:59 Profile Homepage #30
quote:
Originally written by *i:

...
There are very minimal amounts in the atmosphere, unless in the Geneforge world everyone talks with a high pitched voice. :P
...
Servile (*speaking in squeaky, high-pitched voice*): Hi, you are cute.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Fantasy writers don't read fantasy books? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, October 24 2006 08:27 Profile Homepage #8
The more a person reads, the better their command of language, understanding of subjects they read about, etc. One of the reasons "classics" are considered classic is that the language used is much more rich than a person could get from just watching TV all day.

It's probably not necessary for fiction writers to read the same kind of fiction they write, but if they don't read anything at all, their writing quality will not be very high.

[ Tuesday, October 24, 2006 08:29: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Emancipated! in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, October 24 2006 08:13 Profile Homepage #12
If relations in a family are so messed up that it takes a court order to make daughter talk to her parents, I doubt anything good will come out of that conversation. And as in every place where abortion was made illegal, the main result of this proposition would be an increase in illegal abortions, with all related health problems.

PS By the way, Salmon, this is the California proposition I wanted to post. It's kind of strange to see two contriversial propositions appearing simultaneously in different states. I wonder if there is some sort of national campaign going on. Are there same propositions (a restriction on eminent doman with some surprises hidden in the text, and a parental notification for abortions) in other states as well?

EDIT: I just remembered that I was going to post a different issue. Oregon doesn't happen to have a proposition about increasing punishments for sexual offenses, does it?

[ Tuesday, October 24, 2006 09:49: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Spiders of all ages... in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, October 24 2006 07:59 Profile Homepage #22
About age range, I guess Nioca is implying that anybody over 22 is too old to be playing these games. :)

quote:
Originally written by Robert Daniel Oliver:

quote:
Originally written by Andraste:

That's very nice Tullegolar.
I'm sure others thought the same about you.
Wait, you mean Tullegolar isn't 9? :P
We are talking about physical age here, not mental age. :P

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Census Slartificus in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Monday, October 23 2006 11:24 Profile Homepage #16
Favorite adjective Reminder to myself: don't forget to think of something funny to go here before posting.
Favorite city founded before 0 Babel, for its famous architectural project.
Favorite computer or video game released before 1990 I didn't have a computer at that time.
Favorite historical war What's an "ahistorical war"?
Favorite method of execution Firing squad, followed by hanging, followed by burning, followed by shooting ashes out of a canon to make sure the person is really, really, really dead. (A similar method was used for False Dmitri II (a pretender to Russian throne who brought along Polish invasion to support his claim))
Favorite philosopher other than Socrates [insert a joke here]
Favorite poet Anybody who 1) lived in Russia in XIXth century, 2) was included in school textbooks, 3) wrote poems that were short enough to easily memorise when assigned as homework.
Favorite politican (living or dead) dead
Favorite scurrilous talk show host dead
Favorite young children's book (i.e., a picture book) de... Sorry, what were you asking about?

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Protection Money. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 20:58 Profile Homepage #2
The point of insurance companies is to charge people [slightly more than] an average person like that is expected to cost them. The more information they have, the better formulas they can develop. If people with bad credit history are more likely to crash their cars, they should have higher car insurance. If they aren't, but are being charged more, that's a matter for state insurance comissioner, rather than ballot measure.

PS I doubt poverty has anything to do with credit rating. People who are used to counting every penny are probably less likely to overload their credit cards.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Fourty-Two is not adding up. in SubTerra
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 19:41 Profile Homepage #3
It turns out I was thinking of the wrong level. In this one, the answer is to drop 4 stones on the left and 2 on the right, putting them over holes in leftmost positions of corresponding sections. If that still doesn't make sence, I can e-mail you my replay of the level.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
The long awaited Census topic! in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 15:41 Profile Homepage #22
When was the last time that:
You showered? Recently, depending on what's considered to be recent.
You lost your cell phone? Where? Cell phone? Where is my cell phone... Not in my pockets, not near the door... Ah, here it is right in front of me on the table.
You lost your keys? Locked them somewhere? My keys are currently locked in my house. Good thing I am in my house too.
You cut your hair? You mean myself? The result wouldn't be pretty.
You overslept? Sleep is overrate, so any sleep could be considered oversleeping.

Current:
Mode of transportation? Earth. It is carrying me around the sun at a pretty good speed.
Book you are reading? These boards have enough words to make a novel. A very bizzare novel, but still...
Model of cell phone? The one with buttons, a screen, a small antena, and a bunch of electronic components inside.
Jewlery you are wearing? Does 10$ watch count as jewlry? It doesn't matter, because I am not currently wearing it either.
Game you are playing? Making up amusing answers to this survey.

Fav:
Cartoon? you can include cartoons that you used to like Does KoL qualify because of its stick-figure graphics?
Baseball team? One that doesn't exits.
Location? Out of the ones I've been to? Earth.
SW oldbie The one who has a cat that's both alive and dead.
SW newbie? Person(s) who make(s) these boards more fun.

Have you ever?
Stalked someone? I am watching you. Muahahaha.
Been in love? The question's form implies that condition no longer applies, which does apply to me.
Missed TM? Yes, but I'll use a sniper rifle next time.
Gotten lost? Still looking for the meaning of life.
Thrown a pie at someone? π (Consider yourself thrown a π at.)

Random
First quote that pops into your head? Let's see how long I can prevent myself from thinking of any quotes... "Go vote!" Ok that didn't last long. (quote...quote...vote...go vote)
Name a red object in your room Big red letters promising 0%APR if I sign up for yet another credit card.
Name a song that makes you sad Anything that I hear on the radio that sounds so bad that I can do a better job, despite having no singing ability.
If you could remove a person from history, who would it be? Removing anybody important would cause so many changes to the world, that our current world would become unrecognizable. Among other things, it would likely mean that I'd never be born. Which would mean I wouldn'be be able to remove that person. Which would mean the world would be back to present state... Timetravel paradoxes are fun.
If you could call someone a 'best friend', who would that be? Does giving something a name alter its fundamental reality? Ponder that quandary.

EDIT: Missed "favorite" in "location" question.

[ Sunday, October 22, 2006 18:25: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Which game to play? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 14:21 Profile Homepage #62
quote:
Originally written by How:

Thanks guys for the useful info re: encumberance.
Actually, I am NOT in combat mode. I'm not split up. Only see one guy. I entered and exited combat mode once to be certain. So, why can't I rest? Is this some kinda bug?
Rechecked: The message is "No resting during an attack". I see no attack.
You just have to leave the city and go back in. The game doesn't realize that attack is over.

As for re-rolling the characters, doing that after every defeat might get very frustrating, considering that it's possible to wonder into battles that are too tough for you without knowing what to expect. It's possible to play in ironman mode, but I wouldn't recommend it for your first playthrough.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Wouldnt an Exile/Avernum MMORPG be awesome? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 14:11 Profile Homepage #2
1. Jeff said that he has neither ability nor desire to make MMORPGs.

2. Turn-based format doesn't sound very good for MMO play.

If you are simply suggesting an online game set in Exile/Avernum universe by with different game mechanics, sure that might be fun. However, it wouldn't happen for the reasons mentioned.

PS There was a thread here recently talking about online games people play. Kingdom of Loathing seemed to be the most popular one.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Here's you break kid. You're gonna be a star! in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 13:57 Profile Homepage #9
quote:
Originally written by The Stew Boy:

quote:
BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF OREGON:
The Oregon Revised Statutes shall be revised by adding the following section, which section shall read:
Section 1. On personal state income tax returns for tax years beginning on or after Jan 1, 2007, a deduction shall be allowed against income for each dependent, taxpayer, and spouse, lawfully claimed as an exemption on an Oregon taxpayer's federal income tax return. The total amount of the deduction allowed on the state income tax return shall not be less than the total amount of the deduction allower for all exemptions onthe taxpayers federal tax return.
(a) Any legislative Act repealing or delaying implementation of all or part of this section, or decreasing the amount of the deduction enacted by this section shall be deemed to be a tax increase and subject to the supermajority requirement of the Oregon Constitution and the prohibition on attachment of an emergency clause to the Act.
(b) A taxpayer shall have the option of using the existing Exemption Credit, or a larger Exemption Credit adopted by the state legislative assembly , in lieu of the deduction set forth in this section, if the taxpayer would pay a lower tax using the Exemption Credit than by taking the deduction enacted by this section.
Can someone please explain this to me? No, don't snigger, I really don't understand it.
This proposition talks about tax exemptions. "Exemptions" are discounts people get on their taxes for every "dependant" they have. ("Dependant" is a person they care for, such as a child, or a non-working spouse.) The idea of this proposal is to make this discount for Oregon state tax at least as high as it is for Federal tax. It also includes several statements saying "this discount can never be removed or decreased without direct divine intervention." (It doesn't really say "divine intervention", but it requires any change to be approved by a 67% vote, which is close enough.)

The first problem with this is that Federal tax rate is several times higher than state tax rate, so giving same discount on state tax as on federal tax would put much higher emphasis on that discount. The second problem is that, as written, it seems that the discount would grow exponentially with family size, because it says that each dependant would get the same discount federal government gives to all dependants together. And the final problem is that cutting taxes is nice, but only if you say what state servicies (social security, schools, roads, police, etc.) you want to stop paying for.

[ Sunday, October 22, 2006 14:02: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
It's where the rubber hits the road. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 13:45 Profile Homepage #29
quote:
Originally written by -X-:

-X- wonders what your arguments for his alleged noobness would be, as you have so far presented none.
Your posting gimmick is as dumb and almost as annoying as 1337-speak. So you are almost as much of a noob as somebody who uses 1337.

Sorry for being so hard on you, but we have too many posting gimmicks already and I don't want any more new members to think that posting gimmicks are cool. They aren't. At best they are tolerable. In most cases, they make you look like an idiot.

PS Having a sig longer than your average post is also not very nice, but that is a common problem and you wouldn't be singled out if that was the only thing wrong with your posting style.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Fourty-Two is not adding up. in SubTerra
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 13:34 Profile Homepage #1
Positions of the stones you drop correspond to positions of the stones falling at the top. Dropping stones in the same position on both left and right sides makes the corresponding bit in the answer shift by 1 position. I don't remember the answer, but it's not too hard to figure out (if you don't play in hard mode) if you do a couple experiments to see what dropping individual stones (or pairs of stones from both left and right) does. If you want the exact answer, I'll look it up.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Which game to play? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 00:11 Profile Homepage #48
I just checked and it looks like you are right. I haven't played Exile for so long that I've forgotten about details like that.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Which game to play? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Sunday, October 22 2006 00:05 Profile Homepage #46
quote:
Originally written by Andraste:

No, I don't think you could have been doing that, How.
Yea, you have to be in combat mode to hurt anything.
That's only true in some Avernums. In Exile, you can fight without entering combat mode by just walking into monsters. (Helpful when you are going through area full of monsters that are too weak for you and don't want to bother with combat mode.)

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Which game to play? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Saturday, October 21 2006 23:39 Profile Homepage #43
In Exile, you have to enter "combat mode" by clicking the large sword icon on the right edge of the toolbar. When you enter combat mode, your party splits up and your characters act one at a time. The commands at the bottom also change, but it's pretty obvious what they do. (Cast mage/priest spells, use ranged attack, etc. The difference between Shield button and "wait" command is that "wait" simply lets all your other characters move and returns to the active character before the round is over, while Shield ends the round for this character completely.)

The only time your party will not take up 6 different squares when combat starts is if there isn't enough place for them to do so. In that case, several characters will occupy the same spot until you move them away.

When the combat is over and you press "End" button, your party all gathers on the spot where one of your characters was standing.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
What do you do when you're on the boards? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Saturday, October 21 2006 22:53 Profile Homepage #20
I can't multitask, so when I am reading the boards, I am not doing anything else. Which means that I am [not] working if I am here during the work hours, and [not] sleeping when I am here at a time like this. Although the last "not" might be questionable.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Which game to play? in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Saturday, October 21 2006 22:44 Profile Homepage #41
quote:
Originally written by How:

quote:
Originally written by Andraste:

You really like the grouped up party more?
I'm not bashing your decision, but I like the Avernum system of fighting without going into combat mode.
To each his own I guess.
Right you are. I was mistaken. I find the combat system of Exile 2 very confusing and difficult to decipiher.
Well, back to Avernum 2.
What exactly do you fing confusing in Exile system? (That part of the game was almost entirely unchanged between two series, aside from Avernum's removal of most of fun spells.)

PS Looks like we might have an Exile v. Avernum debate again. Haven't had one of those in a while. :)

[ Saturday, October 21, 2006 22:45: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Here's you break kid. You're gonna be a star! in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Saturday, October 21 2006 22:30 Profile Homepage #7
More lottery tickets for me! Wheeeeee!

By the way, did I understand correctly that you can deduct for each dependent the same amount you deduct on the federal return for all dependents? So if you have enough kids, the state of Oregon will have to pay you, instead of you paying taxes. Yes to the 20-child families!

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Episode 3: A New Game in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Saturday, October 21 2006 22:09 Profile Homepage #59
Very nice. Especially poor Tyranicus' death scene and the evil overlord's plotting.

When you have so many characters, everybody saying "me too" gets a little repetative, but other than that this script is as fun as the last two.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
It began in New London in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, October 20 2006 21:19 Profile Homepage #27
After this conversation I talked to my parents about elections and found out that the same measure is on California ballot. I then had to explain to them that nobody is going to take away their house tomorrow even if they vote "no" and that the measure is infinitely more likely to cost them (through increased taxes) than to help them.

So here is the California version of this. I am bolding the things that raise red flags for me.
quote:

Proposition 90 - Government Acquisition, Regulation of Private Property. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.

- Bars state and local governments from condemning or damaging private property to promote other private projects or uses.
- Limits government's authority to adopt certain land use, houseing, consumer, environmental and workplace laws and regulations, except when necessary to preserve public health or safety.
- Voids unpublished eminent domain court decisions.
- Defines "just compensation."
- Government must occupy condemned property or lease property for public use.
- Condemned private property must be offered for resale to prior owner or owner's heir at current fair market vale if government abandons condemnation's objective.
- Exempts certain governmental actions.
Why would a law against "abuse of eminent domain" include restrictions on consumer, environmental, and workpalce laws? Why does this have to be written into the constitution? What "unpublished court decisions" are they planning to overturn?

So I turn past a couple of pages and look at who is presenting the arguments:
quote:

Arguments in favor of proposition 90
...
Manuel Romero, Eminent Domain Abuse Victim
Bob Blue, Eminent Domain Abuse Victim
Pastor Roem Agustin, Eminent Domain Abuse Victim

Rebuttal to Argument in Favor of Proposition 90
...
Kenneth W. Willis, President League of California Homeowners
Chief Michael L. Warren, President California Fire Chiefs Association
Jacqueline Jacobberger, President League of Women Voters of California

Arguments Against Proposition 90
...
Chief Michael L. Warren, President California Fire Chiefs Association
Chief Steve Krull, President California Police Chiefs Association
Edward Thompson, Jr., California Director American Farmland Trust

Rebuttal to Arguments Against Proposition 90
DON'T BE FOOLED BY SPECIAL INTERESTS!!!
Proposition 90 protects...
...
Mimi Walters, Honorary Chair California Protect Our Homes Coalition
Martyn B. Hopper, California Director National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB)
John M. Revelli, Eminent Domain Abuse Victim
A list like that would be enough to make it clear which way to vote even without reading the text. On one side we have firefighters, League of Women Voters, poliecemen, California branch of "American Farmland Trust" and "California Homeowners". The last 2 organizations I've never heard of, but the first 3 are the groups whose priorities are often similar to mine.

On the other side we have 4 "Eminent Domain Abuse Victims" - a loaded way of saying "we couldn't find 6 organizations to endorse this", along with a group with fake name that was obviously created just to promote this measure (did anybody ever hear of "California Protect Our Homes Coalition"?) and some business group.

I also included the first line of "rebuttal to arguments against", just because I found that caps-locked line about special interests to be very amusing, especially when directed by a group of businessmen at representatives of organizations with a reputation for protecting the public.

I was also going to post several examples of "surprises" burried in the text of the Proposition, but this post is getting too long. (Here is one example from analysis by the legislative analyst: "...the broad language of the measure suggests that its provisions could apply to a variety of future governmental requirements that impose economic losses on property owners. These laws and rules could include requirements relating, for example, to employment conditions, apartment prices, endangered species, historical preservation, and consumer financial protection.")

The moral of the story: before you vote for anything, make sure you understand all implications of your decision.

[ Friday, October 20, 2006 21:35: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
It's where the rubber hits the road. in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, October 20 2006 16:09 Profile Homepage #10
Salmon, making checkboxes that you can check only one of was very evil. Option 1 was too amusing not to check, so this measure has my support. :P

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
It began in New London in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, October 20 2006 15:48 Profile Homepage #24
quote:
Originally written by Ghouloca:

quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

The poll is currently 65% for vs. 25% against, so this thread looks like a good example of why Bush managed to win two terms in a row and why we have a Republican governor in California.
I was under the impression that yes was to limit the seizure of private property.
That's my point: your impression is right as far as it goes, but you missed that "yes" vote also makes it more expensive to build public works projects such as schools and roads. If you don't think government should be building schools and other infrastructure, you are entitled to your opinion, but I doubt that is the case. :)

PS I haven't read the measure outside of this thread, so Salmon could just be playing devil's advocate in his last couple of posts, but it's usually enough to look at supporters and opponents lists to decide whom the proposed measure is really benefiting. I doubt that realtors would be pouring tons of money into passing a law to benefit average people, and League of Women Voters would be defending interests of WalMart.

[ Friday, October 20, 2006 16:04: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
It began in New London in General
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Friday, October 20 2006 15:19 Profile Homepage #22
The poll is currently 65% for vs. 25% against, so this thread looks like a good example of why Bush managed to win two terms in a row and why we have a Republican governor in California.

From what I understood from Salmon's posts, the measure would make it much more expensive to use eminent domain for anything, including schools, roads, and other things left-leaning Spidwebbers would find appealing. Here is the key part:
quote:
Also, or further, the state will pay all legal fees if the final accepted offer from the state is higher than the initial offer by the state.
Looks like Salmon already explained the implications of this while I was wondering whether to post, so I have only one things to add.

When looking at any ballot measure the first thing to look at is who is supporting it and who is opposing it, ignoring the names of fake organisations and looking for thing you recognise. In this case we have:
quote:
Pro ballot measure parties...
David Hunnicutt (chief petitioner, Neighbors helping Neighbors Committee, 12 paid opinions)
Oregon Assoc of REALTORS.

Anti ballot measure parties...
League of Women Voters of Oregon
American Planning Association
Basically, it's realtors with enough money to buy lots of ad space vs. League of Women Voters and whomever that planning association represents. ("Neighbors helping Neighbors Committee" sounds like a typical name of a fake organisation created to conceal the identity of real backers of a measure.)

PS In case my initial paragraph wasn't clear, I think this thread is a good example of how easy it is to fool people into voting for things that go against their views or best interests. Here we have mostly liberal Spidwebbers overwhelmingly voting for a measure that would benefit realtors at the expense of public works projects. The issue of government taking land to benefit other private entities seems to be used as a cover to sneak in a law that would have much more far-reaching consequences.

[ Friday, October 20, 2006 15:21: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
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