Avernum 5 Early, Early Notes

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Author	Topic: Avernum 5 Early, Early Notes
Agnessa Warrior Member # 43	written Friday, December 8 2006 14:36 Profile #25 Hurrah! Now--for a plot that doesn't squeeze you along like toothpaste in a tube? I didn't mind the limits on where to go/what to do in Exile/Avernum 2's first chapters, but from the return to the ToM on, it was very open. The first game was completely open (except for the whole 'go here too soon, you get whomped' aspect), and there was a sense of wide-openness in game three, even if there were certain lines that had to be drawn straight. A4, OTOH, felt so constrained 'do not deviate from plot, straight lines only'. Being more free to wander around in squiggly lines w/o getting one's nose whacked with a paper for being a bad puppy (so to speak) ... that's probably my top wish. Posts: 145 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Gavin Lifecrafter Member # 7538	written Friday, December 8 2006 15:16 Profile Homepage #26 You know, I've sometimes wondered why there are never any Vahnatai PCs. I figured that by BoA we'd probably have them available to play as characters, but it didn't turn out that way. -------------------- Do not provoke the turtles. They do not like being provoked. -Lenar My website: Nemesis' Refuge Posts: 743 \| Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Friday, December 8 2006 15:26 Profile Homepage #27 quote: Originally written by Nemesis: You know, I've sometimes wondered why there are never any Vahnatai PCs. I figured that by BoA we'd probably have them available to play as characters, but it didn't turn out that way. According to Jeff, "the Vahnatai will never be PCs because they're supposed to be alien and incomprehensible to humans." -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Ephesos Law Bringer Member # 4153	written Friday, December 8 2006 15:35 Profile Homepage #28 Yay boats! quote: Originally written by Spidweb: "Now all that's missing is secret passages. Wall bumping plz!" Nope. Okay, fine. As long as there are secret passages in some form... Nature/Cave Lore triggers, or maybe just Luck. They definitely added to the atmosphere of previous Avernums in an amazing way. quote: Originally written by Spidweb: One of the nice things about setting a game is the underworld is, dude, there are always more caves. :-) Yay! That's what I had been hoping for. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 \| Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
VCH Shaper Member # 247	written Friday, December 8 2006 15:45 Profile Homepage #29 quote: Originally written by Spidweb: "Now all that's missing is secret passages. Wall bumping plz!" Nope. The new area is up a certain remote river (visited in early games but not Avernum 4). The obstructions in it were cleared by workers sent by the king to reach new areas for Avernum's growing population. There are predictable problems arising from this, but they aren't the main focus of the plot. One of the nice things about setting a game is the underworld is, dude, there are always more caves. :-) - Jeff Vogel Hmm now where could that be? ;) -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 \| Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Friday, December 8 2006 16:22 Profile Homepage #30 But... but... I didn't kill Rentar, I let her go! quote: Vahnatai will never be PCs because they're supposed to be alien and incomprehensible to humans. This is exactly why they would make great PCs. It would be a whole new game, right? Edit: I hated secret passages. It pains me to think of how much content I may or may not have missed just because I didn't run face first into every single wall in the game. [ Friday, December 08, 2006 16:23: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ] -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
*i The Establishment Member # 6	written Friday, December 8 2006 16:25 Profile #31 Sometimes death is the best thing for a character's development. Let them become history. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Friday, December 8 2006 16:35 Profile Homepage #32 Stop saying that! It's not official, and I will not believe it until it is. By the way, Rentar was legendary before Erika was even born! -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Synergy Shaper Member # 6292	written Friday, December 8 2006 16:43 Profile #33 quote: Originally written by i: Sometimes death is the best thing for a character's development. Let them become history.* I wonder if this would work for ET? -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 \| Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Friday, December 8 2006 16:47 Profile Homepage #34 quote: Originally written by Spidweb: The new area is up a certain remote river (visited in early games but not Avernum 4). The obstructions in it were cleared by workers sent by the king to reach new areas for Avernum's growing population. Good! This is what I was hoping for. I'm glad. quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: Here's something Dikiyoba is wondering. Dark Waters of A2 and Exodus both follow a river full of waterfalls downstream. How do people ever travel upstream? Exodus also has a bunch of land routes for backtracking, which you do a fair bit in the scenario (going from Nakhtha back to the first Camp by land, for instance). Presumably merchants during the height of the slith empire would have gone overland bypassed the waterfalls both ways, since going down a waterfall is fine and good for adventurers, but it's not as good for someone laden down with goods for sale and money. Still, the difficulty of passing helps to explain how the cities lost touch with each other and became independent as the empire collapsed. It's not so easy to get from Thassaka to Vasskolis that it would be inconceivable that the two cities could lose contact. I assumed in Dark Waters that people didn't travel upstream all that much. It seemed a pretty isolated and difficult passage, and I don't remember if there was any reason to believe that people had ever gone down or up it very frequently. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Friday, December 8 2006 16:57 Profile Homepage #35 quote: Synergy: I wonder if this would work for ET? quote: Randomizer: ET - you'll probably fade away into obscurity and be lost for all time when Jeff purges the board to make space for Geneforge X and Avernum 11. Apparently not. Besides, that would make me a martyr, and there can only be one, true martyr... -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Randomizer Law Bringer Member # 6785	written Friday, December 8 2006 17:12 Profile #36 ET - you can die and be forgotten without becoming a martyr (except in your own mind). Getting to explore an adjacent area will allow for starting characters to build up before getting into trouble. Of course this ruins my idea that we start off as surface tourists with no really useful skills going off the beaten track. Posts: 4643 \| Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Amyth Shaper Member # 7472	written Friday, December 8 2006 17:12 Profile Homepage #37 quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: But... but... I didn't kill Rentar, I let her go! Then she must have been crushed during the cave-in. Or another band of adventurers followed right behind you and killed her. :P quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: Stop saying that! It's not official, and I will not believe it until it is. Tullegolar... She's gone. She's gone, Tullegolar, and there's nothing you can do to help her. I'm sorry for your loss. Here's to hoping you find love again someday. This touching message is sponsored by: :P -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet • Foul Hordes Posts: 2686 \| Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Synergy Shaper Member # 6292	written Friday, December 8 2006 17:25 Profile #38 quote: Originally written by Mysterious Man: Hey Jeff, will you put me in your next game? I'd love the recognition. The name is Ty. Now there's no more mystery. Time to change your nick. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 \| Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Friday, December 8 2006 17:28 Profile Homepage #39 Originally by Nioca: quote: quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: But... but... I didn't kill Rentar, I let her go! Then she must have been crushed during the cave-in. Or another band of adventurers followed right behind you and killed her. :P It was the GIFTS. They were afraid they were going to lose their status as the most loved and despised creatures in Avernum, so they killed her. quote: quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: Stop saying that! It's not official, and I will not believe it until it is. Tullegolar... She's gone. She's gone, Tullegolar, and there's nothing you can do to help her. I'm sorry for your loss. Here's to hoping you find love again someday. This touching message is sponsored by: :P Dikiyoba sees the board has finally converted you to our snide ways. Posts: 4346 \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Andraste Agent Member # 1934	written Friday, December 8 2006 19:31 Profile Homepage #40 Can I get a quick re cap for the ending in Avernum 4? I didn't register it. I know Rentar did it, and these Darkside Loyalists are bad, but is there anything else important? [ Friday, December 08, 2006 19:33: Message edited by: Andraste ] -------------------- You acquire an item: Radio Free Foil Posts: 1169 \| Registered: Monday, September 23 2002 07:00
*i The Establishment Member # 6	written Friday, December 8 2006 19:43 Profile #41 The main quest, you have the choice as to whether to kill Rentar, let her escape, or convince her to go back to her people for judgment. Canon seems to be that Rentar dies at the end. The Darkside Loyalist leader, the optional side quest, escapes. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Friday, December 8 2006 20:02 Profile Homepage #42 quote: Originally written by i: Canon seems to be that Rentar dies at the end. What makes you say that? Until Jeff uses the word 'dead' she could just as easily be alive in the Vahnatai lands. Just because she is not making an appearance in the next game proves nothing. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156* \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Friday, December 8 2006 20:49 Profile Homepage #43 Towards the end of beta testing, I mentioned that I was glad that Rentar was gone, because she had been a problem in Blades scenarios (people bringing her back to have her final revenge, but the scenarios really sucked). Jeff had this to say: "In canon, she is dead. DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD. In Avernum 5, people will talk about how seriously, seriously dead she is." -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Emperor Tullegolar Shaper Member # 7420	written Friday, December 8 2006 21:10 Profile Homepage #44 I don't believe you. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 \| Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Friday, December 8 2006 21:10 Profile Homepage #45 I was kind of hoping for Geneforge-esque multiple-ending vagueness. "Nobody has heard from Rentar-Ihrno for a while. Not since she made a mess of Avernum a few years back. Hank says a bunch of adventurers killed her, but I heard from Fred that they handed her over to some other vahnatai for justice. I'm just glad she's not here anymore." —Alorael, who can live with DEAD DEAD DEAD too. Now Avernum has a huge power vacuum, though. Without Garzahd, Erika, or Rentar, all the major players are lacking in stupendous mages. Solberg is nice and all, but he isn't the kind to move mountains. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Slarty Raven v. Writing Desk Member # 261	written Friday, December 8 2006 21:14 Profile Homepage #46 One question about boats: are we talking Avernum style boats (yay), or Geneforge 3 style boats, which have to be one of the few Spiderweb inventions I completely and totally despise? quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: By the way, Rentar was legendary before Erika was even born! Technically, Rentar was only asleep before Erika was born. But seriously, the implication of what the Olgai Council and other Vahnatai say in E/A 2 is that Rentar was not legendary -- she wasn't even the most powerful Vahnatai mage extant. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 \| Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Friday, December 8 2006 21:37 Profile Homepage #47 quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: But... but... I didn't kill Rentar, I let her go! Tough. I deliberately beat her without Erika's help to avoid killing off Erika. Canon still has her dead. :( Besides, the "judged by her people" has its own implications. -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Bob. Lifecrafter Member # 6700	written Saturday, December 9 2006 08:22 Profile Homepage #48 I always got the impression that Rentar-Ihrno was merely a tolerated presence put into good use by the Council, and that she only rose to power in the vacuum that would have occurred after Glantris-Bok died. Hmm... Boats = :) Elevation = :) No wall bumping = :( Would it be too much to ask for an expansion to the spell library? I mean, it's a little underwhelming when you end the game with powerful arch-wizards and fighter-priests who only know twenty spells apiece. And while discussing spells, what's wrong with a few novelty spells? Who doesn't like using Sticks to Snakes just because they can? Let's see... as for actual speculation.... A4 brought back area of effect spells. Now... will A5 bring back field and wall spells? -------------------- The Silent Assassin wonders if there will poison again. Specifically, rat poison; as one of his food grenades misfired in the lab last night and has brought the neighborhood's rodent population to our back door. -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 \| Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00
*i The Establishment Member # 6	written Saturday, December 9 2006 08:29 Profile #49 I think simplicity is a virtue with the spell library. Although I would like to see a greater number of scripted monster special spells. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 \| Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00