Avernum 5 Early, Early Notes

Pages

AuthorTopic: Avernum 5 Early, Early Notes
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #125
Roguelikes and Avernum are really not alike at all. I love my Angband, but I wouldn't want to play Avernum Angband-style.

—Alorael, who thinks some of that is the party aspect. Angband has very all or nothing death. It's no fun to be killed by that off-screen drolem, but you can roll a new character immediately. In Avernum you'd be stuck with the painful decision of what to do with a crippled party missing half its members but still technically playable.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #126
quote:
Originally written by The Absolute Value of Nalyd is Zero:

The return of death by petrification. The A4 "Freeze" effect was annoying, but nowhere near as deadly.
Agreed. Freezing is just annoying... petrification was a death I could get behind.

--------------------
Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games."

Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #127
Petrification seemed arbitrary and overpowered. Freezing wasn't an automatic death sentence, which made it a much more interesting threat. The character is still pretty much out of the fight until you either fix the problem or allow monsters to do their chompy-stabby-burny thing.

—Alorael, who is thinking of the ToM ruins demon here. Having to go through a battle short a character or two is traumatic, but it's even more fun when you can hold onto the hope that those characters will be available later if you can just keep those horrible things from gnawing their essential bits off.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #128
quote:
Originally written by Allegant:

Petrification seemed arbitrary and overpowered.
If you can prepare for it, it's not that bad. Casting Radiant Shield, wearing a Crystal Necklace, and having high Luck all help you survive petrification. Couple that with a high magic resistance, and the petrification gaze becomes pretty useless. Which ends up benefiting you in the end, because the basilisk would keep firing it at you, wasting it's turns.

--------------------
Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #129
An all-or-nothing effect that's more likely to be "nothing" than "all" is still an all-or-nothing effect.

--------------------
The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #130
I still find it preferable to the Dumbfounding drain ray that Gazers used to fire. That was just cruel.

--------------------
Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #131
Mung demons did the same thing as gazers in some games. I used to send my spellcasters in retreat since they can heal, bless, and haste at any distance.

Being able to raise dead characters should have a financial cost so you have to choose between raising a dead party member or reloading and replaying a difficult fight.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #132
quote:
Originally written by Randomizer:

Being able to raise dead characters should have a financial cost so you have to choose between raising a dead party member or reloading and replaying a difficult fight.
That's hardly a decision. Reloading is the obvious way to go.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 1934
Profile Homepage #133
quote:
Originally written by Randomizer:

Mung demons did the same thing as gazers in some games. I used to send my spellcasters in retreat since they can heal, bless, and haste at any distance.

This is why I always invested at least one skill point in Priest spells. Not only did it distract the Gazers, but they could also heal themselves if needed.

--------------------
You acquire an item: Radio Free Foil
Posts: 1169 | Registered: Monday, September 23 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 7745
Profile #134
Okay, maybe we should have revivals but make the consequences greater, i just really hated it in A4 when i hit the cave slimes, died, went back to priest, killed another, died, went back to priest, and so on until they're all dead... it just makes for boring, unrealistic gameplay...

In my opinion, it should be harder to die but with greater consequences...

However don't reduce experience as i hate games that affect Exp when you die...

Also, thinking about it, the idea of having recruitable heroes was pretty stupid.. i like just having my 4 tough guys
Posts: 59 | Registered: Thursday, December 7 2006 08:00
Warrior
Member # 7745
Profile #135
Oh, and another thing is the world map...
I want the part/world map like in A1-3 as it meant you could always get money/equip and made it sustainable rather than running out of enemies. The removal of this was a shame in A4. Oh and also don't make it real-time like Geneforge, because it makes it less strategic.
Posts: 59 | Registered: Thursday, December 7 2006 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #136
Please don't double post. Edit in whatever you have to add.

I agree about the map, but mostly because the world felt strangely small with no outdoors mode. I also agree about all turn-based, but again just because I don't like playing click-hunt on rapidly moving targets.

—Alorael, who is pretty sure that the penalty for losing a party member is having to go back to town to heal, thus wasting your time. There's plenty of incentive to stop getting killed by those slimes.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
Profile #137
quote:
Okay, maybe we should have revivals but make the consequences greater, i just really hated it in A4 when i hit the cave slimes, died, went back to priest, killed another, died, went back to priest, and so on until they're all dead... it just makes for boring, unrealistic gameplay...

Perhaps try playing to avoid having to use revival. And, if you do die simply REFUSE to revive your lost member.

FOcus on your strategy, why are YOU having to use revive so often. Are you simply hacking as many monsters as you can until you lose a party member, or are you looking for a strategy which will allow you to win the battle without a lost member? Hmmm...

Edit: Crypto, I wasn't being sarcastic, but re-reading my post I wasn't being clear. My point was to rationalize the options, controlling gameplay from the designer (roguelike) by limiting when and how to restart or by turning that aspect over to the player's control. And then offering some justification about why you might choose option B. Of course, both game types tend to have partial solutions built into them to deal with the potentially catastrophic loss of a character - but I perefer games that let me control when and how I deal with such events.

[ Friday, February 02, 2007 10:44: Message edited by: Trolling for Karma ]

--------------------
"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #138
Another thing - Use a different portal system. The double teleport that the pylons used was annoying, especially on slower computers.

--------------------
May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #139
The problem you experienced with the cave slimes was not a revival problem, it was a monster problem. Those cave slimes SUCKED. They were boring, but also numerous and somewhat difficult. At least there weren't map twenty sections of them like with the chitrachs, but they were definitely not one of the highlights of A4. Every time I hit one and it spawned multiple new slimes, I sighed.

And here, here about that stupid portal. I don't think I would have minded clicking twice by itself, but it was click, load, click, load -- forcing me to alternate paying attention and waiting in a very irritating pattern.

[ Friday, February 02, 2007 13:34: Message edited by: @ ]

--------------------
Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #140
The teleportation system in A4 was still a big improvement over A2 and A3 for convenience.

--------------------
"I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5186
Profile Homepage #141
quote:
Originally written by Micawber.:

The teleportation system in A4 was still a big improvement over A2 and A3 for convenience.
Agreed but it was still annoying.
Posts: 64 | Registered: Friday, November 12 2004 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #142
I didn't like the teleportation system. I would've preferred real outdoors.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 6670
Profile Homepage #143
Yeah, I'm curious why JV didn't put the multiple destination option on every pylon instead of just the Grand Central Station one. The IC explaination of how the pylons work would have to be altered, but other than that it would just be a scripting thing as far as I can tell.

--------------------
This Hour Has 22 Minutes is a satirical examination of daily events. Some viewers may not share this sense of humour.

Warning! To Nazi war criminals in Canada! Your decades are numbered.
- This Hour Has 22 Minutes Opening
Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #144
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

I didn't like the teleportation system. I would've preferred real outdoors.
Seconded. And those cave slimes were just annoying... waste of precious spell points. That said, they made combat more interesting, though perhaps it wasn't a good interesting.

--------------------
Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games."

Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #145
Oh, and the return of the Farsight spell. Maybe as an ability instead of a spell, though. It always seemed like it should be harder.

--------------------
May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #146
Without secret passages, there's not much point to the Far Sight spell.

Not that I ever used it to begin with, but still.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
Profile #147
I too missed the outdoors. Wandering around as a lonely pixel on a screen of tiny symbols. MAde you feel that avernum was a really big cave, the caverns were something to behold. And it was different. Now the game has too much of the "sameness" feel, the outdoors and the villages are too similar in how you explore them and discover Avernum.

--------------------
"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 7745
Profile #148
Bring back secret passages.
Bring back A1 revival system.
Bring back world/party map.
Make Vahnati a playable race.
Keep A4 movement system, instead of tile-by-tile when in towns.
Quicksave/Quickload.
Remove cave slimes.

Will add more as i think of them...

[ Sunday, February 04, 2007 07:07: Message edited by: jamesmcm ]
Posts: 59 | Registered: Thursday, December 7 2006 08:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #149
Well in Avernum 4, we already have Quicksave/Quickload (F3/F4), and Jeff has already stated he doesn't want the Vahnatai to lose their alien-ness, so he won't make them a playable race.

The cave slimes aren't so bad. I just don't want to see any more chitrach infestations.

--------------------
"I can't read this thread with that image. But then, that's not a complaint." -Scorpius

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00

Pages