A Few Advance Notes On Geneforge 4

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AuthorTopic: A Few Advance Notes On Geneforge 4
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #225
The thought of GIFTS in Geneforge is just as awful as Shapers in Avernum.
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 7002
Profile #226
In Avernum 5, all of the GIFTS need to die a horrible death. That way nothing like like this will pop up again. It could even be a Quest.

EDIT: Though that would probably set them down the "Lets Bring Back The GIFTS" path.

[ Wednesday, April 26, 2006 08:28: Message edited by: Mr.Bookworm ]

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Polaris
Posts: 193 | Registered: Thursday, April 6 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #227
I want a cannister of Raid to get rid of the Giant Intelligent Talking Roaches. Especially the ones that think I'm cute.

A servile as a starting character would normally be a warrior (guardian), but there were some implications that serviles could use cannisters under certain circumstances. So it might be possible for them to acquire spells (agent) and maybe some shaper powers by maybe using existing equipment. After all the Takers in Geneforge 1 were using the vats to get creations.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Warrior
Member # 6875
Profile Homepage #228
quote:
Hey what about the other intelligent insects!
GIFTR: Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Roaches.
Nu, those things are gross and dirty and ew. The spiders are friendly and clean. =)

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Your mom's face! XD
Posts: 77 | Registered: Wednesday, March 8 2006 08:00
BANNED
Member # 6432
Profile #229
The GIFTS won't be very happy with you considering that the GIFTR are their friends.

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I hate you all
Posts: 165 | Registered: Friday, October 28 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 7067
Profile #230
"A servile as a starting character" Reading this again brought this to mind.
IMAGE(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h308/Silentinspace/AC.jpg)
(This image is not against being a servile in geneforge 4 it was just what came to my mind.)

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"I knocked him out, but I managed to hit the reply button before he fell down."-The person behind him.
Posts: 153 | Registered: Monday, April 24 2006 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
Profile #231
As long as we're so pathetically off topic:

I have always hated the way the serviles looked, with their big, pointy noses. A little too inhuman for me, you know? Who agrees? I think they should look more childish, and live up to their name. And now for one of my characteristic sketches:

IMAGE(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3684/serviles8ti.png)

Didn't turn out how I expected. Tried to make a fat, sad looking creature.

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One of these words is mispelled.
Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5161
Profile #232
Hehe... this isn't really a FEW advance notes on G4 anymore is it?

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blah blah blah
Posts: 78 | Registered: Thursday, November 4 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
Profile #233
There have only been a FEW notes by Jeff himself.

Fortunately, he (in my opinion, correctly) predicted that more people would read further comments if he made a new thread, which he did.

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One of these words is mispelled.
Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #234
You could have been:
quote:

This doesn't make any logical sense, though. Why would an intelligent servile fight for himself to be killed and imprisoned?

I'm not the one who proposed the scenario. However, siding with the Rebellion doesn't seem like a fantastic option if you want to be 'free'. Power crazed drakons, and canister abusing humans, who have a habit of oppressing the ordinary serviles/drayks/humans, and sending them out as cannon fodder.

In fact, the Drakons and rogue Shapers remind me of the pigs from Animal Farm. Not much of a better alternative than the humans.

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #235
Originally by the Waylander:

quote:
In fact, the Drakons and rogue Shapers remind me of the pigs from Animal Farm. Not much of a better alternative than the humans.
The pigs were actually worse than the humans, as I recall.

All creations are equal, but some creations are more equal than others!

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
Profile #236
The rebels at least have delusions of freedom.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #237
Wouldn't that be a fantastic G4 Easter egg? An isolated farmyard area populated with talking, spell-casting Ornks, with appropriate names. Ornks have always looked more porcine than bovine to me. Plus it's the perfect place for the mandatory Create Ornk canister.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #238
I still want to see an Ornkithopter.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
Profile #239
As long as we're talking about Animal Farm, can we have Ornk playing cards and gambling with humans at the end?

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One of these words is mispelled.
Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00
Warrior
Member # 7002
Profile #240
That would be a nice little Easter Egg area...
The 4 Create Ornk canisters you need to create the Gornk(God of Ornks) would each be guarded in caverns by the Tornk(Terror Ornk), the Wornk(War Ornk), and the Pornk(Plague Ornk). After you killed one of these ornks, in you acquire a Ornk Key. After collecting all three, you would be able to access the small building in the center of the map, where you would face off against Napolean, the Big Pork, his 9 trained Huge Roamers, several Humans(armed with Shaped Lances and Aura of Flames), and Shapers(I'm sure you don't need an explanation as to what they could do). After you beat them, you would get the 4th Create Ornk canister, and the choice between 5 "Ornk Items". Either: the Ornkbone Claymore, the Ornkskin Slippers, the Ornkmeat Charm, the All-Ornk Protecter, and the Ornksteel Gauntlets.

Table of Ornk Items:
Ornkbone Claymore- (60-200 damage), +2 to all Primary Stats
Ornkskin Slippers- +80% Armor, +4 to Dextirity, Parry, and QA
Ornkmeat Charm- +2 to EVERY stat
All-Ornk Protecter- +100% Armor, +4 to Endurance and Str.
Ornksteel Gauntlets- +75% Armor, +5 to Lead., Mech. and Magic Skills

Table of Boss Ornks:
Tornk: Can cast all spells and inflicts Terror in melee.
Wornk: Can cast Strong Daze. Has 12 AP. 100-300 damage
Pornk: Inflicts every kind of status ailment every turn.
Napolean: Has combined powers of all the other Boss Ornks

NOTE: Within this area, you can find a cavern with the rebel creations. They are led by Snowball, Ornk of the People.They are very willing to help you if you treat them nice...

NOTE2: A side quest is to rescue the Battle Alpha named Boxer from death at the Armor Factory.

NOTE3: You can go buy some very nice Spells, Canisters, Armor, and Weapons from the Drakon youth Moses Blaze. They even say, for the right price, he'll tell you some very interesting information...

NOTE4: I have way to much time on my hands.

EDIT: The Ornk "tree" would look something like this:
1- Ornk-Same thing as the last 3 games.
2- Battle Ornk-A blue Ornk with 10 AP and increased stats
3- Ur-Ornk- A insanely powerful red Ornk.
4- Gornk (God of Ornks)-Can kill a Drakon in 2 hits. Gold colored.

[ Thursday, May 04, 2006 20:13: Message edited by: Mr.Bookworm ]

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Polaris
Posts: 193 | Registered: Thursday, April 6 2006 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 6161
Profile #241
quote:
Originally written by Dolphin.:

The thought of GIFTS in Geneforge is just as awful as Shapers in Avernum.
I had a horrible vision that shapers did exist in Avernum.

Take a look at the names:
drake - drayk
dragon - drakon
gazer - gazer
eyebeast - eyebeast
vahnatai shaper - shaper

Are those slight variations the corruption of language over time? Are the vahnatai the carnister-twisted, super-mutated, crystallinised remnants of humans from the archaic shaper civillisation in which we are some young apprentices?
Posts: 20 | Registered: Saturday, July 30 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 7067
Profile #242
"Are those slight variations the corruption of language over time? Are the vahnatai the carnister-twisted, super-mutated, crystallinised remnants of humans from the archaic shaper civillisation in which we are some young apprentices?"

Many people have thought of this before. (look at the Avenum 4 forum) Personaly I think they did not want to take canisters so they developed some sort of christal thing that would change them. (It might be wearing off with time, the A4 vahnatai seemed to be gaining weight.)

"drake - drayk
dragon - drakon
gazer - gazer
eyebeast - eyebeast
vahnatai shaper - shaper"

Yes, this is true (probably because the same person made them up)but, look there are others out there.

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"I knocked him out, but I managed to hit the reply button before he fell down."-The person behind him.
Posts: 153 | Registered: Monday, April 24 2006 07:00
Skip to My Lou
Member # 40
Profile Homepage #243
Long before A4 came out I proposed "Vahnatai Creationism Theory With A Twist" in General, I don't feel like looking for it though.

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Take the Personality Test!
Deep down, you wish you were a stick figure.
Posts: 1629 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #244
There really needs to be some kind of equivalent to the...

Hold on, this deserves its own topic.

EDIT: Be enlightened.

[ Saturday, May 06, 2006 11:29: Message edited by: His and Her Meaty Appendage ]

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 7555
Profile #245
Fun... I find it hard to wait. Too bad there's still so much time to wait for it... :) Especially since I'm a PC user.

For both nostalgy and discussion purposes, here's a (very very long) mail I sent SpiderWeb about a year ago:

quote:

Hello,
I've played all three games in the Geneforge series and want to add to
the many compliments you have probably already received for it. I
spent much of my so little time playing Geneforge with enthusiasm, and
definately the games' playability are their strongest quality.
Although I liked 'Geneforge III' less than its predecessors, You do
seem to try and supply the user with more small game features with
every new version.

As adequate in a feedback, here is what I would like to see in the
next Geneforge, should one ever be created (Even though it does not
currently seem likely). I think some of the following can greatly
improve the game's playability, some would contribute to its
reliability and some are just plain neat. This is rather long, I hope
you are ready...:

1. Authority and control - Since powerful Shapers can many times gain
control over some rogue creation, of even one of a less powerful
Shaper, I think a change in the whole control system in the game could
be in order. Now a creation's owner is always predetermined, outside
of some specific creations you could take over with Leadership skills
or temporary uses of the Dominate spell. I think that every creation
should have some 'loyalty' quality or something like that, depending
on its intelligence, creature type, creator (level/skills/etc), the
distance from its creator perhaps, the creations around (type/owner)
and specific circumstances. If it gets under some limit, the creature
might go rogue. If it gets even lower and a powerful Shaper is around,
the creation might choose to join him/her. This quality may or may not
be visible to the player, but I think it would add a new dimension to
the game. I envision some very powerful Shaper going through a land
full of very weak, rogue creations (the such that would barely give
any exprerience anyway) and just collecting them all by gaining
control over them, to later use them as an army against some other
strong enemy. I also see a Guardian with weak shaping skills doing
most of his/her fighting by hand, since creations wandering too far go
rogue or join the powerful enemy Shaper. Finally, a moderate Shaper
might choose to create a strong but smart Thahd and not a stronger
Clawbug, since the enemy Thahds are more likely to join and army of
other Thahds. Or perhaps a mind-tricking Vlish would contiribute.
This may possibly add more only in advanced parts of the game, and
should not take effect too often (A player would not like to start the
game with its initial Fyora going rogue), but might add some very
interesting aspects. It would be more interesting but much more
complicated if these effects would remain when one travels (going to
another area).

2. Guards and Ambushes - One of the important things points RPGs, in
my opinion, and indeed one that seems to have received some attention
in Genefore, is giving the player the feeling that his/her actions
affect and change the world, that he/she is not playing in a static
environment. Here is an idea to greatly improve this, in my opinion: A
strong Shaper might be able to leave a loyal creation to guard some
area (not in the current map), just like enemy Shaper many times do
(e.g. Litalia leaving creations to guard over entrances to important
locations, and many other examples). This might require some very high
skills like authority, creature intelligence and perhaps extra essence
(maybe leave an essence pod?), however.
Since it seems the next Geneforge might be in much of a war setting,
this might prove useful in both protecting areas and making the people
of a town like you more (or less, depending on who the guard should
protect...). I do admit, however, that this feature might be somewhat
problematic in the current style of the game.

3. Mines and Traps - I think that the ability to create and place
mines would be very nice, since it is related to being a good Shaper,
and most players feel that they are quite good Shapers (e.g. in
'Geneforge I' after you use the Geneforge...). This might be very
useful in intercepting patrols or tricking enemies that are strong but
foolish. In addition to creating them, a player with good Mechanics
skill might be able to change to behavior of a mine (i.e. to only
damage creations, or even ones of a specific type). The same might go
for pylons and other living traps. This feature might simply add to
the variety and reliability in the game if it is limited to the curent
area (i.e. your mines disappear/go back to their initial behavior when
you travel), and might otherwise join my previous point (2) in
changing the style of the game (e.g. one could plant mines in the
entrance to a town if an attack is likely). But again, this change in
game style may not be wanted.

4. Creation Intelligence and Abilities - I think creations should be
able to do more than just fight (and sometimes suicide on mines for
their creator). It seems logical that in order to well infiltrate a
city of hostile Drayks, one would create a very intelligent and loyal
Drayk. The Drayk might be able to talk others into believing things a
Shaper might never be able to (since they hate Shapers). In the
extreme, a powerful Shaper might simply be able to create a Servile
(and the implications of this need not be specified).
A smaller change but still useful, is finally giving creations the
ability to use spells like a Shaper - the player should be able to
choose from the spells the creations can case, and not just choose
between a ranged and melee attack letting the creation use its default
attack (e.g. a Terror Vlish might have several mind spells to choose
from).

5. Skills and Learning - I think a very nice ability would be to learn
not only from people and canisters, but also from experience. This
means that if you kill or even see many Cryoas and inspect them,
having a high Fire Shaping skill might enable you to learn how to
create one (or improve the type you can already create). It seems
logical that a powerful Shaper would be able to immitate creations
seen elsewhere. Perhaps some new skill might contirbute to this
ability, such as 'Anatomy', but this may also pend only Shaping
skills. This would greatly improve the game reliablity and playablity
in my view, as well as simply be fun.
Another option to this, second in betterness but yet nice, is giving
ability points as well as skill points to let the user choose what to
improve (given that the Shaping skills are adequate of course). As I
said, I like the other option much more.

6. Small Issues - There are several things in the game that simply
disturb me in that they seem too artificial or just annoying.
One reliability issue is the fact that killing a store owner would
give you close to nothing whereas giving him/her some money would give
you rare equipment, or the other way around. I think any store should
have its entire gold and equipment available to thievery (quietly) and
robbery (by force). There are many other game features that might help
to prevent a player from abusing this (e.g. guarding the money and
equipment in some safe near the store with a sealed door and traps,
but it must be synchronized with what you buy/sell!).Another reliability issue is the use of boats and the such (in
'Genefore III') - it is not very logical that a simple boat (not a
hard-to-anchor ship or such) would only be able to take you to one
specific place. Perhaps the whole use of boats is problematic here...
Some annoying feature in 'Genefore III', in my opinion, is the
'special' areas to which you cannot travel. I think every area change
should be available in the travel map, even if it originates in the
center of an area...I think the improvement of creations gives no reason to want to keep
or help a specific creation, since even given unlimited experience,
your creation can only get as far as your essence permits - or in
other words - as well as you can create a new one. So one would
usually absorb a creation and go to some friendly town to recreate it.
I think that if creation experience would become more relevant, and if
improving your creations would not require any essence, you would try
harder to keep your creations alive (and not send them to their death
to clear a path of mines), and sometimes send them to train by killing
weaker rogues, etc. One would also likely invest more in creating an
loyal creation (accroding to my point (1) to keep it for along time,
thus encouraging a player to act like a responsible Shaper and not
some crazy human with Shaping abilities.Finally, the ability to Shape during battle seems important. If
enemy shapers and Spwners can do it, why can't I? You could limit the
abuse of this feature by taking many action points for such a thing,
or requiring a relatively quiet envorinment (e.g. the Shaper is not
attacked in the relevant round, etc.). Perhaps creations created in
battle should also be weaker, since the Shaper can give less attention
and concentration. And as introduced in 'Genefore III', maybe a very
strong Shaper should be able to create Fading creations that would
waste essence (i.e. use up an essence pod) and disappear in travel or
such.That's it!
I hope there would indeed come a 'Geneforge IV' anytime soon, and that
you would consider my suggestions for the very least... :)
Thank you for your time!
Yoav.


Posts: 1 | Registered: Saturday, October 7 2006 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #246
Why not repost this in a new topic considering this one is over three months since the last post?

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00

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