Humans Only
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 19:29
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I'm with Lar on this one. People do things for others because they receive some benefit from it as well. Kindness is motivated by a desire for the approval of our peers or at the very least a desire to feel good about ourselves. That doesn't make people evil, but it does make everything we do self-interested. I'm not sure that humans are naturally anything, but I think people on the whole tend to be indifferent with a slight tendency towards evil. —Alorael, who makes no apologies for his cynicism. It is, after all, motivated by self-interest. He can feel better about himself if he looks down on people in general. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 19:50
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People are people. (...so why should it be you and I should get along so awfully? DUM DUM DUM!) 75% Pacifist 60% Citizen 45% Guardian 30% Altruist 25% Hedonist 20% Miscreant 20% Loner 15% Conqueror 10% Narcissist 10% Destroyer "Citizen" weirds me out a bit, especially since the quiz won't let you read descriptions for anything save your first choice. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 19:51
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I am not sure. I my self, I try to do the right thing, well, because it is the right thing to do. I am not looking for anything for doing it. I just don't want to feel guilty for not doing anything at all. I even try to do the right thing even when it conflicts with my own morals and ethics. An example. My morals do not agree with homosexuality. However, I do not go out of my way to cause trouble about it. Live, and let live. So long as it is kept behind closed doors, I have no issue and do not become involved. However, if I saw somebody tormenting somebody because of their homosexuality, I would have to step in and do something about it to satisfy my own code of ethics. Perhaps that is what good is, doing the right thing even when you don't agree with it. How could this be considered self interest or being selfish? I can't say for sure what people are. But we have choices. Some people make bad ones, some make good ones, and some choose to not make them at all and spend their lives as victims. Perhaps that is what evil is, drifting aimlessly and doing nothing at all. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 20:05
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Narcissist 75% Altruist 65% Destroyer 60% Hedonist 60% Citizen 55% Loner 55% Guardian 45% Conqueror 45% Pacifist 35% Miscreant 35% Congratulations. You are a Narcissist. You probably believe in your own powers and abilities over that of other people. Vanity is something you have in spades. Take this and your second result and combine them to get your result. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Too Sexy for my Title
Member # 5654
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 20:07
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Congratulations. You are a pacifist. A pacifist is someone who values life above all else, and thinks peace is more important than anything else. Combine this with your second result to get your answer. Pacifist 95% Guardian 60% Loner 40% Citizen 35% Altruist 30% Miscreant30% Narcissist30% Hedonist 25% Conqueror 20% Destroyer 10% Posts: 1035 | Registered: Friday, April 1 2005 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 20:10
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quote:But compassion is not kindness, Alo. And it has as little to do with self-interest as with putting others' interests above your own. It's more related to empathy than sympathy - walking a mile in your neighbour's shoes. To quote Albert Einstein: 'A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.' -------------------- Polaris Rache's A3 Site reformatted 2/3 done Rache's A3 Site, original version Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Too Sexy for my Title
Member # 5654
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 20:22
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quote:Heh, I know people who think they are above others. They're kind of funny, really. quote:That's a lie. I've seen so many people use that argument, and at some point in my life I almost bought it myself, but it's so untrue. I do agree that most acts are self-interested, and that most people do things for others to make themselves feel better and generous. However, this is not true in all cases. I've literally done things that have made me miserable just because it'd make others happy. One could argue that seeing them happy makes us happy, but I don't think that's what you're saying. Edit: quote:I agree with "We aren't naturally anything, and on the whole tend to be indifferent", but I don't feel good agreeing with the last statement. [ Thursday, November 02, 2006 20:25: Message edited by: Kitana ] Posts: 1035 | Registered: Friday, April 1 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2836
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 20:33
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You scored as Pacifist. Congratulations. You are a pacifist. A pacifist is someone who values life above all else, and thinks peace is more important than anything else. Combine this with your second result to get your answer. Pacifist 80% Hedonist 65% Citizen 60% Loner 60% Guardian 55% Miscreant 45% Altruist 45% Destroyer 45% Narcissist 30% Conqueror 30% [ Thursday, November 02, 2006 20:33: Message edited by: The Stew Boy ] Posts: 587 | Registered: Tuesday, April 1 2003 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 20:36
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I have the highest narcissist score by 45% ... but at least I use my narcissism for good, not evil. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 20:37
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Heh. True to form, this topic degenerates into a quiz topic. In fact... NO! I feel the inexorable pull. Help me! I'm supposed to be asking about realloc's efficiency, not taking quizzes! Nooo... quote:EDIT: Haha! The minute I put my Evil Overlord Helmet on, my Narcissim score doubles Drakey! -------------------- IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD: quote: [ Thursday, November 02, 2006 20:39: Message edited by: Dintiradan ] Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 20:56
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Pacifist: 90% Citizen :75% Guardian: 70% Loner: 50% Hedonist: 40% Altruist: 35% Miscreant: 20% Narcissist: 10% Destroyer: 5% Conqueror: 5% Dikiyoba isn't entirely sure about this test. Dikiyoba thinks Loner should be higher. Maybe it would make more sense if Dikiyoba saw the description for it. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 20:57
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quote:I just felt like quoting that to put emphasis on what I thought was a nice joke. Regarding the original question, I will begin by defining evil acts those that are selfish and garner rewards directly at the expense of others. I think that people tend to be more naturally evil, but the element of good is still inherent within them. The only problem is that in almost every case, self-interest will triumph over altruism, i.e., people usually only do good for others after they have taken care of themselves and have the free time to engage in these humanitarian endeavors. Building off Alorael's argument about seeking praise, I contend that every action and decision is ultimately what the person wants, even if it involves complete selflessness without hope for any recognition. The mother who gives up her food for her child decided to do so because the guilt would have been worse than the hunger. So in this way, every decision is in a person's self-interest. I have an entire argument laid out in my head, but it is late so I'll finish this up tomorrow. Go ahead and attack the unfinished product if you like; it'll help me find the holes in my midnight logic. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 21:31
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That's exactly what I'm saying, Marlenny. You can do a good deed for someone at your own expense and never get any recognition for it, but you do it because you feel good about doing it. If you genuinely just became miserable, you wouldn't do it. I don't think it devalues kindness or generosity in any way. It just explains the psychology (or maybe philosophy) of being nice to people. Ef: I agree that the word wasn't right, but we understand what Tully means. —Alorael, who recently witnessed a wonderful exchange. One individual proclaimed, "People are all terrible," to which another invidivual quickly replied, "I'm not a person." Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 21:56
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quote:I have a hard time thinking about that without having it devalue my estimation of kindness... not sure why. I just like thinking that it's something beyond psychology... even though I see the logic to the explanation. Meh. In my mind, humanity is beyond definitions... which makes arguing that point incredibly difficult. (And continuing the degeneration of this thread into yet another quiz topic - thanks Salmon - I scored as Guardian and Pacifist... those questions were horribly written) -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 22:12
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It's entirely possible to do good deeds for others even though you don't get the recognition and feel miserable about doing it, There are other reasons including guilt, obligation, or it may be the easy way out. Still there are very few altruists out there and you may not know what the motivation was. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 22:14
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quote:No problem. It had been a while since the quiz meme. I was just lucky that I was on alert and found the appropriate quiz before this topic turned into another shouting match. But, as a guardian-pacifist I'm sure you understand my motivations. ;) -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Thursday, November 2 2006 23:11
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quote:There is no such thing as human nature. There are common traits, but the lens of society modifies their perception strongly enough to prevent their forming a coherent gestalt. The idea that humans share a common basis of behavior, that any human being left alone will automatically behave in a good or evil fashion, is an intellectual atavism. Are we 'good'? Are we 'evil'? No; we are nothing of the sort. Our behavior is governed by external circumstances (whether or not you believe in free will, you have to acknowledge that - you can't instanteously become Pope or brother of a closeted homosexual or a professional hit man or a fat man in the path of an oncoming train.) and that behavior may be something you could call 'good' or 'evil'. That's as close as we get. Biologically speaking? We're not as greedy as you think. [ Thursday, November 02, 2006 23:18: Message edited by: The Worst Man Ever ] Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
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written Friday, November 3 2006 00:11
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I don't think that humans can be classified in that way either. Nobody is good, and nobody is evil. Most opposing sides are just that, nothing more. It's often just a matter of perspective. Now, there are occasions where actions are good or evil. Hitler's actions against the Jews were evil, but as hard as it is to admit, Hitler could not have been all bad. There must have been something good about him, even if the majority of his actions were prodominantly evil. The same goes for everyone. I've known a lot of really great people personally, and you hear about great people in history. People that stood up for other people, and then lost their lives for it. But that's just one side of the spectrum. On the other side, they have committed evil deeds in their lives as well. In any case, however, it's not our duty to judge mankind as being "good" or "evil". Heck, it's not even our duty to judge ourselves that way. Our responsibility is to be as good as we can be, despite knowing that we're still not perfect. Now, on a slightly different subject, Lt. Sullust mentioned self-interest. This isn't necessarily evil, but it often leads to greed and selfishness, which in turn lead to theft, rape, murder, etc. I've been brought up to believe that greed and selfishness are evils, so to speak. However, there is a near black and white difference between selfishness and personal goals. It's more than just a positive or negative connotation. -------------------- Do not provoke the turtles. They do not like being provoked. -Lenar My website: Nemesis' Refuge Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Friday, November 3 2006 01:40
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quote:The question doesn't really make sense, because regardless of how you wish to define them, we wouldn't be aware of either, if we didn't contain both. You can't have a concept of light without having experienced darkness too. -------------------- Polaris Rache's A3 Site reformatted 2/3 done Rache's A3 Site, original version Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3870
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written Friday, November 3 2006 02:56
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quote:At face value, this is interesting question. Looking more closely, it's nonsense, like ef said. I note you use the word "naturally" - what is your definition for this in the context? Are you suggesting that humans are born one way or another, and ethical behavior is genetic? Your question also generalizes. Are all humans naturally ethical or unethical (which I gather you mean by good or evil), and those who behave otherwise are going against their nature? Are they doing so consciously? There is evidence that humans can behave in certain ways without being aware of their reasons for doing so. If it is possible to unconsciously go against one's nature, then how can we know that this nature existed in the first place? Doesn't that turn the entire debate into pure speculation and sophistry? Finally, what code of ethical behavior are you defining as "good"? For example, is a religious or non-religious person evil? Is an opponent of abortion good? Or are you just using the generic concept of not harming other humans? Posts: 156 | Registered: Thursday, January 8 2004 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Friday, November 3 2006 03:39
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quote:Just that. [ Friday, November 03, 2006 04:12: Message edited by: Guardian Magma ] -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Friday, November 3 2006 04:57
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In the state of nature, there is no right or wrong.  Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 32
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written Friday, November 3 2006 06:17
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You scored as Pacifist. Congratulations. You are a pacifist. A pacifist is someone who values life above all else, and thinks peace is more important than anything else. Combine this with your second result to get your answer. Pacifist: 95% Citizen: 60% Guardian: 55% Loner: 45% Conqueror: 40% Altruist: 35% Destroyer: 35% Hedonist: 25% Miscreant: 20% Narcissist: 15% -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Friday, November 3 2006 06:33
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Guardian 75% Pacifist 65% Citizen 60% Altruist 50% Loner 35% Conqueror 30% Miscreant 30% Destroyer 15% Hedonist 10% Narcissist 5% n/t i didnt already know -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Friday, November 3 2006 10:25
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Lame. "Oh, Tullegolar, I can't answer that question, there are too many facets, wah." Give me a break, I asked for comments on human nature. You've nothing to say about the subject? Are humans guided by society, greed, emotions, empathy? Nothing? I was expecting more interesting answers and viewpoints. Most of you would rather avoid saying anything, it seems. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |