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Were there to be a new spiderweb series... in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #16
quote:
Originally written by Chaotic Wisdom:

I don't thnk a turn-based game would realy interest the SW community.
Um, what? All SW games so far are essentially turn-based.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Love in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #35
quote:
Originally written by wz. As:

So what if everyone tells you your child is a dick?
When people tell parents this, it's generally in an attempt to make the parents improve their children's behaviour. I think that's perfectly consistent with my hypothesis.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Love in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #33
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

Unconditional love may make a bit more sense if you think of a parent's love for a child. Maybe you need to have a child to appreciate this, but you're somehow stuck rooting for the kid permanently. If they're good, you're happy; if they're spiteful, petty, or odoriferous, you want them to get better, and you're willing to stick with them until they do.
I'd find it interesting to examine what conditions actually do attach themselves to this "unconditional" love (or, if I may coin what I think to be a more precise term, "behaviour-independent love"). Clearly it's not simply conditional on them being children, since parents don't show the same behaviour-independent love for other people's children. It's also not simply conditional on them being one's own biological children, since adoptive parents seem able to treat adopted children as they would treat biological children. On the other hand, it can't simply be conditional on having spent time raising the child, since a parent who has separated from the custodial parent of a child will often spend considerable time and effort trying to obtain access to a child the parent has rarely or never seen.

Clearly also the conditions for a parent to show behaviour-independent love for its children are not culturally universal, since there have been cultures throughout history in which it's perfectly acceptable for parents to kill disobedient children. Seems like that'd be a big improvement nowadays: we'd solve the overpopulation problem and the juvenile delinquency problem in one fell swoop.

Okay, so it turns out I can't make one reasonable post about children without my hatred of them showing through. So sue me.

Seriously, though, my suspicion is that the primary cause of behaviour-independent parent-child love is intense social pressure on parents to display behaviour-independent love for children which society deems them to be responsible for. Any negative feelings toward those children are repressed or dismissed as not being the way one "really" feels about one's children, regardless of how common or how strong those negative feelings are relative to the positive ones. In cases where this cognitive dissonance can no longer be maintained, postnatal depression results, because the parent feels at fault for being unable to live up to an impossible standard.

In essence, then, my argument is that the concept of behaviour-independent love is a self-delusion, albeit possibly a well-motivated one.

[ Friday, August 04, 2006 18:23: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Question about demonslayer. in Avernum 4
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #3
If you have high Tool Use, you can turn off the control panel in the southwest that spawns the golems, allowing you to explore the dungeon more freely.

In any case, Demonslayer is reached from one of the southern entrances to the centre area. Operate the control panels around the outer edge of the building to open gates.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Graphics Hoard Unleashed Upon Ye in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #32
Your effort is much appreciated. There's no need to rush; it'll be a couple of months before the scenario comes out and I can use one of the regular ogre or giant graphics as a stand-in until the final release. Don't feel any pressure to make the balloon unless you feel like it and have the time; I can probably even make it myself, although it might not be very good if I do.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Graphics Hoard Unleashed Upon Ye in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #29
Some very nice work there, especially the latest axeman graphic.

So any news on that balloon and giant, Slith? No pressure or anything, of course.

[ Thursday, August 03, 2006 17:12: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
SW & ST Fusion! in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #7
Hey, I'm Papa Legba. Awesome.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Books and movies in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #15
I suppose the big exception would be movies based on Philip K. Dick books, which tend to be, if not better than the books, then certainly more accessible.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Love in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #26
quote:
Originally written by Laurina:

I believe in unconditional love too.
What the heck is "unconditional love" even supposed to mean? Unconditional love for a person isn't unconditional; it's conditional on the fact that they are that person, unless you love everyone and everything in the universe exactly equally.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
The Great SW Photo Captioning Contest in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #32
Aran, didn't you say you had a picture in mind to post? It seems like it's time for it.

In fact, as a general suggestion, one new picture per day seems reasonable.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Love in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #16
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

Also, the original remark did acknowledge love as a real phenomenon, and not just a misnomer for pheremones. I'd say that no amount of evolutionary utility really has any implications for ontology. Many organisms rely on gravity for reproduction or even survival, but gravity is hardly a figment of evolution.
So you're implying that love might be written into the laws of physics? That rustling sound you just heard was my right eyebrow disappearing above my hairline.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Character Fighting Order in Avernum 4
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #4
Fighters at medium levels can easily afford (and benefit significantly from) a lot of Quick Action, so I'm surprised that anyone's mages are acting earlier than their fighters.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #88
quote:
Originally written by Waylander:

Thuryl, I'm also curious as to whether you are a vegetarian. You present arguments which are often used by the rational proponents of the animal rights movement, in that all sentient being have intrinsic value.
I'm not a vegetarian, but I probably ought to be; I don't regard my lifestyle as a good moral example. (Those of you who follow General may remember my little "become an aid worker or shut up" speech about morality: I have, by and large, chosen to shut up, but as evidenced by this thread I sometimes fail even at that.)

[ Thursday, August 03, 2006 01:05: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Major Error: Expression TOO LONG in Blades of Avernum Editor
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #18
quote:
Originally written by Garrison:

First of all, why do you need to check the locations of every single PC? Couldn't you just store the leader PC number in a variable and check that? I ask this because, according to the way you set up the code, if any PC is on a no-dig spot, no one else can dig.
Actually, unless I'm seriously misunderstanding the code (which I'm not), it's currently possible to dig as long as any PC is on a diggable spot.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Major Error: Expression TOO LONG in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #18
quote:
Originally written by Garrison:

First of all, why do you need to check the locations of every single PC? Couldn't you just store the leader PC number in a variable and check that? I ask this because, according to the way you set up the code, if any PC is on a no-dig spot, no one else can dig.
Actually, unless I'm seriously misunderstanding the code (which I'm not), it's currently possible to dig as long as any PC is on a diggable spot.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Love in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #14
As anyone who's played tennis knows, love is what you have when you have nothing else.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Effects of skills, esp. Magical Efficiency in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #1
This is all really interesting stuff, and I for one am grateful for the time and effort you spent experimenting with QS and ME. Good job!

I might collect some data myself when I have the time, which, at the moment, I don't.

[ Wednesday, August 02, 2006 02:01: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
The Great SW Photo Captioning Contest in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #0
Okay, so here's how this is going to go.

Someone posts a photo. Other people supply humorous captions for it. When everyone gets bored of that photo, someone else posts a new photo. I'll start.

IMAGE(http://thuryl.desperance.net/attention.jpg)

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #77
quote:
Originally written by Savage Ed Walcott:

Also, I've explained multiple ways a machine's "personality" could easily be stored, saved, or replaced. The same can't be said for a human, hence the frailty and uniqueness of human life.
There's no evidence in the games that Shapers have the degree of control over creations' minds that you've been implying. In fact, there's considerable evidence against it; if Shapers could really fine-tune the personalities of their creations, there wouldn't be a need for all those shackles and discipline wands you see around the place.

quote:
Also, I've said that humans are exempt from the same considerations because creations have some primary utility, and perceivable intelligence is a byproduct of shaping them for more and more advanced purposes.
What you haven't explained is why the process by which their existence came about should have any relevance to their inherent value. Irrespective of creations' instrumental value (that is, their usefulness to others), they also possess value purely by virtue of being sentient beings with their own interests. A creation which won't follow orders may have little or no instrumental value, but it still has inherent value deriving from the fact of its consciousness and ability to experience fulfilment of its interests.

Well, that's more or less how my preferred ethical system sees things, anyway. Of course, as we seem to have a fundamental disagreement of principles here, that may not be worth much. Full disclosure time: what moral axioms do you hold? If you can't or won't answer that, then which three moral philosophers do you most admire?

[ Tuesday, August 01, 2006 06:20: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
A Small Beta in Blades of Avernum Editor
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #6
quote:
Originally written by Niemand:

If anyone is wondering the reason so much of what I used is old/deprecated stuff, the resources used by BoA are deprecated, and I borrowed the key grapic adjusting code from the 3D BoA Editor, so it uses Quickdraw.
The 3D Editor's graphic-adjustment code is derived from BoA (Jeff sent Isaac the relevant portion of the code on request), so you can blame that on Jeff as well. :P

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
A Small Beta in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #6
quote:
Originally written by Niemand:

If anyone is wondering the reason so much of what I used is old/deprecated stuff, the resources used by BoA are deprecated, and I borrowed the key grapic adjusting code from the 3D BoA Editor, so it uses Quickdraw.
The 3D Editor's graphic-adjustment code is derived from BoA (Jeff sent Isaac the relevant portion of the code on request), so you can blame that on Jeff as well. :P

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #75
quote:
Originally written by T:

quote:
Originally written by Savage Ed Walcott:

Other than someone saying they were starting to personally dislike me because they didn't agree with me (like I care)
Disdain, especially when you go out of your way to point out your disdain, is not a proper attitude; he is, after all, a human being with rights and emotions.

To give the devil his due, he can't really be blamed for starting that one. :P

And I don't dislike him because I disagree with his arguments; I dislike him because he appears to be a hippie.

[ Tuesday, August 01, 2006 01:02: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Abandonware in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #39
quote:
Originally written by Meeshka:

But most of all I like King's Bounty. I still play it sometimes when I get tired of conquering the world trying to win tough fights in the new turn-time strategies.
Ooh, King's Bounty. Now I get a chance to brag.

I played KB for a long time, until I finally managed to achieve what I'm pretty sure is a perfect game: every artifact found, every castle garrisoned and every villain defeated, on Impossible difficulty, with a total of only 2 followers killed. Final score something around 48000, if I recall correctly. Anyone else here ever match or beat that record? :P

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #55
I've been trying very hard to avoid resorting to ad hominem arguments in this discussion, but it's difficult; the more I hear of your arguments, the less I like you. You appear to believe that anything produced by a human is necessarily inferior in some way to anything which is not produced by a human. It seems to me that this is a very narrow-minded and rather misanthropic attitude. If, as you say, human life has value because of the human capacity for originality, then to deny that we could create something as great as ourselves is to deny our own humanity.

[ Sunday, July 30, 2006 05:45: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper hypocrisy vs. Shaper tragedy (SPOILERS) in Geneforge Series
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #52
quote:
Human is NOT, nor never should be, a replaceable commodity. I personally feel all natural life is inherently superior to any imitation that could be produced by man aided by technology or magic.
Personal feelings are not a sound basis for an ethical system.

quote:
That's not to say that for specific purposes, imitations couldn't be built to perform tasks that are hazardous to the natural beings that created them. However, those artificial beings inherently can't be equal in value to the beings that created them because they are a replaceable, inherently disposable imitation of the natural world.
What do you mean by "natural" and "artificial"? It seems impossible to draw any objective distinction between the two. If humans are natural creatures, doesn't that mean anything produced by humans must also be natural?

[ Saturday, July 29, 2006 22:59: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00

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