Profile for *i
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | *i |
| Member number | 6 |
| Title | The Establishment |
| Postcount | 3726 |
| Homepage | |
| Registered | Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
Recent posts
Pages
| Author | Recent posts |
|---|---|
| I Want to Crush Your Dreams. in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, January 12 2006 16:07
Profile
Sounds pretty good. I agree with Kel, make it something simple. Maybe even kill a "gremlin" infiltrator for them. quote:This might be a bit too obvious. I wouldn't just chalk this up to a normal dream as it gives way too much away about the motives of the Gremlins and what happened. Perhaps the party sort of comes out of it in a daze, dreamlike state (the party thinks they are dreaming) where they are wandering around a Gremlin Grove, perhaps even killing some Gremlins. A gremlin sees them and casts a spell on them and they "wake up" back in their beds. They conclude that they must be dreaming about the oncoming attack. Convine the player that the "dream" is what will be rather than what "was". quote:Revenge is a strong motive, especially for a nameless, faceless party that is undeveloped. Personally it would make me a bit uneasy to just be told I should take revenge for people that I (the player now) have never even met. Perhaps keep some of the soldiers still alive. Gremlins are hedonistic folk and would probably keep some captives to jeer and torture. Rescue is a lot easier to swallow as it goes to the premise that the party is noble and generally good, which is almost universally accepted as the alignment of a nameless party. [ Thursday, January 12, 2006 16:08: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Helping Jeff advertise in Avernum 4 | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, January 12 2006 15:53
Profile
You misunderstand me Alorael, I'm saying that the formula of: build levels, find Bob, do missions for Bob, win game is old and tired. The problem is, as I said, is not that Bob exists, it's that largely he just sits there and dispenses missions. Lord Rahul, Anaximander, the GF2 Bobs merely sit on their thrones and give out missions and rewards and that's it as far as the story is concerned. Of course, Bob is just one example I was using. Villains in Jeff's games tend to be the same way. They sit in their tower/castle/whatever until the party comes to smite them. This applies to virtually every character in Jeff's games. They are largely inactive in Jeff's world. The only people that have real active roles are those that are in the party. Now the party should have a very active role and the world should respond to them; however, as part of the reaction to the party's actions the characters should react in more interesting ways. Let's take An Apology from Blades of Exile. We had Bob, who is calling himself Xenophon and we have the villain who is Kriken. Xenophon does send the party on missions, but he also partakes in the action. Kriken also does not just sit in his tower. He does things to bug the party, he reacts to the actions. Am I saying Jeff should make something like An Apology? No. Am I saying his characters are shallow and largely inactive? Absolutely. EDIT: I'll add this as I was going to write this but forgot: I don't mind if Jeff uses the above formula once in a while. One or two games, that would be great. However, when all games start following the same basic pattern it forces me to conclude that Jeff is stuck in a design modality. Is the modality bad? Not intrinsically so. Is the modality bad when used over and over again? To that I answer any modality is bad when used over and over again. [ Thursday, January 12, 2006 16:17: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Demons or not? in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, January 12 2006 15:21
Profile
The town was called Erox. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Helping Jeff advertise in Avernum 4 | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, January 12 2006 13:45
Profile
My main complaint is that Jeff has not really done a whole lot original in a long time. Yeah, Exile was great because it was new. Nethergate was pretty neat, although I have one complaint on that which I will discuss later. Avernum was just a rehashing of Exile, no new ideas there. GF1 was actually pretty cool in premise, but somewhat klunky. GF2 and GF3 started out being interesting, but quickly devolved. A4 is pushed by the plot which is quite unoriginal and is a departure from the explore mode. My main problem is that Jeff's games do not really have what authors would call characters. Sure, they have constructs in the story, but there are not a whole lot of people who stand out very much. The commonality in this is we have the premise of, find Bob (the generic guy who gives out the major missions throughout Jeff's games), do them, and get loot. A1/A2 didn't really have a central Bob character in them and neither did GF1. In A3 it was Anaximander. In Nethergate and GF2 it was the leader of whichever side you picked (do these X missions to win the game). In GF3 it was Lord Rahul (if you choose the Shapers) or Akari Blaze and Litalia (for the rebels). In A4 it was Houghton and King Starrus. Is Bob needed? Probably so. However, the person that gives the missions is a generic construct. Now Litalia changes this somewhat in GF3, but otherwise all of the characters I mentioned above could be interchanged with any other personality and it would work just fine. Why is this so important? Well, it leads to the patented Jeff Vogel formula of game design: 1) Start game, kill stuff, collect loot and direction to Bob. 2) Locate Bob and do X missions for him. 3) You win. Look at A4, everything up to the Castle is pretty much (1). Everything else before that exists for the purpose of leveling up and making the game longer. Sure we have the Alien Marking, but that's the justification to see Bob. So we find Bob (err...Houghton) and we do his missions three. Jeff does something potentially really cool here and kills off Bob, I mean Houghton. Now with Houghton dead, there could be something interesting here. However, Bob is quickly resurrected and jumps into the guise of King Starrus, pretty much the same person with a different name and office. We do two more missions and win. Look at the Shaper side of GF3. Greenwood and Harmony Isle are leveling up distractions. I suppose this is not quite fair as it does develop the "enemy" better than in A4. You get to Bob who now calls himself Lord Rahul, you do his missions three and you win. The Rebel side is a little more interesting as we do not meet the real Bob, now dressed in a Drakon costume and named Akari Blaze, until near the end. But even still, Litalia gives us our missions until replaced by Akari Blaze at the end. This is better because at least Bob is a little more active this game. Let's look at GF2. The game starts out as an interesting mystery until we discover the verdant areas. Well, we journey on until we find Bob (in this case Zakary, Barzahl, Learned Pinner, or Eaaas), we do whichever Bob incarnation's missions three and we win. Look at Nethergate. We meet Bob from the very beginning, we do the six missions or whatever and win. A3 is similar in that we always have Anaximander to report to (who just sits in his cramped office), but at least is not so direct in do these x things for me. So here's the deal: Jeff's games are formulaic. The names may change and a eye raising ripple may appear here and there (Houghton dying or the mystery with Shanti thing), but Jeff never capitalizes on it. If that's what you like, more power to you. However, I would like to see some new spark, some new charm, a break from the old formula where I have characters and motivations. What's the answer? I don't know, I'm not the one getting money to think up these things. This is not to say what Jeff has done is bad, it's actually decent. What troubles me is that it is the same game over and over again with different graphics, names, and text, but fundamentally the same. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Demons or not? in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, January 12 2006 11:40
Profile
What I'm doing in Chill Factor is a little on Efreets. My story is they were one of the two oldest races (Efreet and demons) from a time when the world was full of fire. They are like demons in many ways (attunement to fire, decent magic users, "immortal"), but different in others. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| 3rd test in Avernum 4 | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, January 12 2006 11:37
Profile
This it the test of magic right? You can only damage it with magic, and one particular type at a time. Watch the text screen to see what color it flashes and hit it with that type. Your fighters should only act as a shield for it, but should never actually strike the creature. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| The Power of a Shaper Glowing Skin in Geneforge Series | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, January 12 2006 07:06
Profile
Yes, this comes from the canisters. You really shouldn't use to many of those if you are concerned about such effects. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| I Want to Crush Your Dreams. in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, January 12 2006 06:40
Profile
For the record, in my last post, I was just saying use "we need to get food" as the motivation for your minor quest you want to do. I don't want to discourage your ideas, just want to challenge them and make you make sure that they make sense in addition to offering suggestions as to alternate methods of a approaching a similar situation. Your idea has a lot of potential, I just couldn't entirely make sense of it after reading it a few times the way you had written it; that's the main reason why I wrote up a alternate idea, because I couldn't fully understand it. I'd recommend you do something you want to do and has your own ideas, but that you really clearly work them out so other people can understand them. In somewhat response to Drakey's assertion: Hunger would serve as a hook or motivation to begin the plotline, a logical reason everyone can relate to. The charming would still be the focus of the story, the hunger just something to give the player a sense of urgency and direness. Then you have the choice of making the player aware he is slaughtering his fellow soldiers or not. Both are intriguing: Suppose as you suggest, everything changes so the player thinks he is slaughtering gremlins. The value you get is the "Oh, crap!" moment when the party wakes up. The other one is to make the player fully aware of his charmed state. Emulations sort of explores this concept. Both can be really good and effective. I'm leaning toward the first one becasue (1) it has not been explored as much and (2) it has shock value. I hope I've made you aware of a couple design choices you have in creating a storyline. Oh and, Drakefyre, when are we going to see that great scenario you intend to release? :P [ Thursday, January 12, 2006 06:50: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| BoA Crashes: Magus of Cattalon in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 16:40
Profile
quote:How nice of you to be specific of being able to solve these things. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| I Want to Crush Your Dreams. in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 16:38
Profile
I'm not sure I fully understand. At first you say the party gets charmed, then it is not, and then it is. I am not sure I know exactly when the party is charmed and when it is not and what is "real" and what is not. A few questions you should answer: 1) Why does the Empire want a remote, small, swampy, and otherwise seemingly unextraordinary island? What can they gain by a settlement? 2) The gremlins. Does the Empire know about them before hand? If so, why doesn't the Empire just do a full assault on them? 3) The first mission. What does it have to do with the main plotline? Why does the party need to do the mission other than to make the game longer? I would suggest doing the hunger thing I stated above as it makes a dire survival need. 4) When exactly does the charming go on? Who is the "wrong side" that you mention in your original post? 5) So the party wakes up. Why do they fight the fort captain? 6) How is the party going to get off this remote island after they sneak out? -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| BoA Crashes: Magus of Cattalon in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 14:33
Profile
Oh that, I pity the designer. APF had a similar problem with a move_to_new_town node. It works fine on the Mac and most of the time on the PC; however, once in a while PC users get this strange and otherwise undetectable and unfixable error. I'm guessing it is a systemic engine problem, beyond the reach of us designers. If anyone could prove me wrong, please do as it would be great to fix the damm thing. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Helping Jeff advertise in Avernum 4 | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 14:07
Profile
quote:Apparently you have not been around Spiderweb very long. :rolleyes: -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| I Want to Crush Your Dreams. in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 14:06
Profile
Okay, sounds interesting; just offering suggestions. Keep in mind this is NOT a topic for just posting scenario ideas that you have no intention of putting to scrutiny or even seeking advice on. So my question is, what sort of advice do you want with respect to design? [ Wednesday, January 11, 2006 14:06: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Geneforge 4: "Not a Shaper" in Geneforge Series | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 13:49
Profile
I believe there was one, sort of a diplomat. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| I Want to Crush Your Dreams. in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, January 11 2006 06:55
Profile
A few hints of suggestion: Skip the "first few minor missions". It would be interesting to have the fort be completely out of food from the beginning. The soldiers are starving and are getting desperate. I'd make the gremlins just very mischievous and always stay in hiding making stealthy kills; the powerful magical race is old hat. On a side note, for a longer BoA scenario, you could make food a usable item linked to a special node, if you do not eat for one day, you suffer consequences (like reduced endurance or something until you eat). Although I would keep it short enough that it probably would not matter. Have the party go out and find food. It's risky, but the situation is dire. Party finds orchard of fruit or something. Gets 'charmed' by Gremlins. Have eating the fruit make you feel a strange care-free sensation or something. Not knowing you have been charmed, you return to the fort with fruit, but the soldiers "attack you" once you are past the main gate. Actually, this is part of your perception. The party is told that they have to escape by opening the main gate (allowing the gremlins to enter). Wake up, return to gremlin fort, find gremlins engaged in huge party at fallen fort. Soldiers are kept for jeers and the such. You have to free the soldiers and defeat the gremlin leader. With their leader gone, the gremlins flee. This scenario is probably pretty short and simple. Probably only requires 3 towns (fort, the orchard, and the ruined fort) and 1 outdoor section, but still has enough plot twist to be interesting. [ Wednesday, January 11, 2006 06:58: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Lord Bhoralon's location in Avernum 4 | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 19:39
Profile
The demon you need to kill is in the section just west of the other one, the one directly under the tower, near the center. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Chat Reminder!! in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Tuesday, January 10 2006 14:43
Profile
Odd, I was able to get in just fine. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Chat Reminder!! in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, January 9 2006 21:10
Profile
The next chat will be held in less than 24 hours (as of the time of this post) on January, 10 at 6 pm EST. This chat will be using AOL Instant Messenger under a chatroom called 'blades'. For instructions, follow the link below. Hope to see you there! AIM Chat Instructions -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| AIM Blades Chats in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, January 9 2006 21:06
Profile
Are you able to log in and open AIM? -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| intro pictures in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, January 9 2006 21:02
Profile
That might be it. Every working file I see has a .cmg tag, not a .cmg.rscr tag. Try removing the .rscr part and see it works. If not, create a new .cmg file in ResFool and copy a couple images from an existing, working .cmg file for another scenario and try that one with your scenario. If it works, then try copying your original image in; it not, then we'll get to that if it comes up. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| intro pictures in Blades of Avernum | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, January 9 2006 21:02
Profile
That might be it. Every working file I see has a .cmg tag, not a .cmg.rscr tag. Try removing the .rscr part and see it works. If not, create a new .cmg file in ResFool and copy a couple images from an existing, working .cmg file for another scenario and try that one with your scenario. If it works, then try copying your original image in; it not, then we'll get to that if it comes up. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Basalt Fortress help, please (possible spoilers) in Avernum 4 | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, January 9 2006 14:42
Profile
Those doors will not open until you defeat Rentar-Ihrno. I take it you have made it to the lower level? If so, look for a lever north of the shrine, it is difficult to see. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Spring cleaning the forums for the New Year. in General | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, January 9 2006 06:56
Profile
Sorry, I figured nobody wanted things that were not posted in since sometime in 2004. EDIT: Large locked topics over a year old were first. Your post count will remain. [ Monday, January 09, 2006 06:59: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Spring cleaning the forums for the New Year. in General | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, January 9 2006 06:45
Profile
I generally delete things on general that are very large and over a year old to free up space. I figure no one really cares if no one has posted in it in over a year. Valley of Thunder fell into this category, I believe. [ Monday, January 09, 2006 06:46: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
| Av4 Character Editor... will one ever be made in Avernum 4 | |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Monday, January 9 2006 06:42
Profile
I doubt there will be a character editor. You can always cheat by modifying the scripts, however. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |