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Originally written by Indifferent Salmon:

Any other questions on how Native Americans get treated?

Like most land animals, they require large areas to roam and collect forage. They also like interaction with others of their own species and tend to appreciate being noticed.

We've taken their land and confined them to limited areas of unfamiliar terrain. We've insisted that they learn a foriegn language and abandon all their customs. We mock them, insult them, name loser sports franchises after them, and now we seem to prefer discussions of economics over them.

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Originally written by Kelandon:

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Originally written by Student of Trinity:

So if we talk about the plumber shortage as a noteworthy problem, I presume that the question is whether this is going to be a grave and intractable crisis.

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I thought we were talking about what the best thing to do about it was. Letting it become a serious issue, cause a depression, and then fix itself over the course of a couple decades, all in the name of capitalist non-intervention, seems astonishingly stupid. If it's going to become a problem, it seems obvious that the best thing to do is to try to prevent it.

I'm not saying that I know exactly what to do, but I'm saying that "The market will correct itself" is too often a cop-out.

EDIT: The problem is the "in a couple of years" part. The market corrects itself eventually, but how long does it take, and what damage is done in the meantime? That's hard to predict.

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Originally written by Kelandon:

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Originally written by Leena:

Alec: Kel: You don't really have a shot with Marlenny.

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This one was the best, really. :P

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Originally written by Tyranicus:

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Originally written by Archmage Alex:

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Originally written by Zeviz:

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Originally written by too long, don't read, too many CRs:

... We need to understand why Asian kids from first generation immigrants are more likely to win highschool science prizes and transfer the essence of the magic potion. I just do not believe that these things are determined genetically. Maybe a special contest program would get American Indian kids motivated in some discipline that connects to their tradition.There should be plenty of potential sponsors who could buy publicity in this way.

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As somebody mentioned in "president" thread, an important reason Asians and Jews do so well in school is strong family support. The parents force children to study hard. And since the culture places high value on education (at least for Jews, don't know about Asians), children are also more motivated themselves. Unfortunately, American schools don't force students to work hard, so if parents don't force them, and students themselves don't care, you end up with high school graduates who can't pass a basic literacy test.

Financial incentives would be good, but every carrot also needs a stick. For example, tying a part of welfare payments to how well kids do in school. (To discourage them from dropping out to get a job, or stay on welfare.) Of course this would work only if we actually fix the school system, pay teachers enough that not only those who couldn't get a better job would go into teaching, etc. And that's unlikely to happen.

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Originally written by URL=hotmail.com:
Hot Male[/URL]

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Originally written by Zeviz:

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Originally written by d3m0n5L4y3r:

A better question is: why do all message boards have to have some stupid little inside-joke-icon? Make it funny, at least.

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Just like all other trends, some people like it and others pick it up to look cool.

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The older members of the Spidweb community are also very accustomed to each other. When a new member joins, they may feel awkward or left out. So, to attract attention, patronize older members, and make himself or herself seem one of the group, they will adapt the group's customs. They really have no idea of the basis of the custom, but they do it anyway.

<small>[ May 09, 2006, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: URL=hotmail.com]Hot Male[/URL ]</small>

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Originally written by too long, don't read, too many CRs:

I have occasion to revive this topic due to the following post:

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Jumpin' Salmon ½ Man, ½ Amazing Member # 5755 written May 07, 2006 11:18 PM

Humans are gifted with the luxury of hindsight, and the feeling of emotional loss that may accompany it. It probably would have been "better" if native Americans had been 100% eliminated.
It would have meant much less suffering on the Rez, including the chronic alcoholism, drug addiction, and suicide that plague native Americans. We could have marveled over artifacts such as spearpoints and pointed at intricate weavings or cave paintings and nodded sagely, confident that those long lost peoples were noble savages, one with the earth and able to communicate with the animals.

Bleagh.

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I find this post is derogatory to a racial minority and violates the CoC. What do the oldbies think of this? Am I too sensitive? I do not want to be counted as a member of a forum where such offensive rubbish is posted.

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Originally written by Major:

I think I have found the problem in this argument I'm only talking about where I live.

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Compared to African Americans and Hispanics, Native Americans are by and large forgotten about in the US as a whole. Perhaps silent is not the right word, unheard would be better.

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In the US yes in oklahoma no.
The Indians I know who actually live the life you describe - gov't money, no taxes, reservation and such - have had remarkably fast and poor lives. Maybe it's different from Oklahoma, but that seems to be the story for the American southwest in general.

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How many people can name at least two African American civil rights leaders? How many can name the equivalent for Native Americans?

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I can't name two for either :P
But, yes blacks have made a big deal about it compared to indians.
You can't name two for either? I learned about Malcolm X and MLK in middle school. And if there's something wrong, there ought to be a big deal made, oughtn't there?

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As far as what's been done relative to the atrocities (which pale in comparison to other minorities), it has been pathetically small. Not saying absolutely nothing, but comparatively nothing.

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Yes again for the US no again for oklahoma(I'm not saying that they are as bad as other races(I hate that term) it's just that they getting alot.
You realize that Oklahoma has near to no indigenous population, right? The Indians living there are there as a consequence of being driven out of Georgia on foot. Look up the 'Trail of Tears' sometime. While the current situation might seem unjust to you, it's been worse... much worse.

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Also, saying their privledged really is sort of insulting considering that statistics put their average economic status well below all other ethnic groups in the US.

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Ok I maybe shouldn't have put such emphises on privledged. But, I was just trying to point out that they aren't doing bad here.
Maybe not the visible ones. The ones on the reservation tend to live pretty piss-poor lives no matter where the reservation is.

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Face it, we destroyed them and have done very little to get them up to the level as everyone else.

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Has any other nation given another nation it's own nation when they conquered them? Oh and by the way there up to the level here. :) (I am 1/32 indian myself)

There's really no comparison in history for what the US did to the Indians (and other American countries, too - I'm just more familiar with here). And even if there were, would we really want to console ourselves saying 'Hey, we're at least better than that'? It's kind of like people who look at Iraq and say 'Hey, at least we aren't like Saddam Hussein'. As if we can't do any better.

And I'm 1/16... uncle tom. :P

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Originally written by Strontium:


It is also true that Germany systematically went about defying the Allies, breaking the Treaty of Versailles and rearming, etc for several years and started a war without any real opposition. IT has been argued by some that the Allies were looking to the east as the real threat (Communisim) and were hoping that Germany and Russia would slit each others throats as they stood idly by. Note too that even after the war started, the western border was thinly defended and there was opportunity to invade from France, in support of Poland, but the allies stood by and watched Poland fall. This too was a realistic opportunity to stop Hitler, in the early stages of a war yes, but surely would have prevented many millions of deaths.

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Originally written by Kelandon:

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Originally written by Student of Trinity:

There's nothing like a devastating plague to turn a settled continent into a new frontier, with lots of job opportunities for everyone left.

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Which leads me back to my main point: Black Death caused the Renaissance.

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Originally written by Dagon:

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Originally written by Dolphin.:

Hmm, mail order Germans huh, Aran…

Oh, uh, moving along…

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I assure you that I cannot be ordered, by mail, catalogue or otherwise. You'll have to make do with the photo threads.

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Originally written by *i:

How do we control and deal with the spread of deadly epidemics in a highly connected global society?

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Originally written by Butt Paladin:

Increasing federal spending for public education. Massive increases of foreign aid to stave off starvation and easily-preventable diseases. Repealing Welfare-2-Work and replacing it with a social net capable of catching something smaller than a barn. Strengthening Affirmative Action to solve the massive unemployment rate of urban blacks (and males in particular). Increased public transportation spending to allow said urban African-Americans to reach their jobs. Massive tax hikes for the rich. Nuclear disarmament. Nuclear power. Increase of minimum wage to a liveable minimum. Socialized health care. Recognition of labor unions. Disestablishing religion. Prohibiting corporations from hiring children abroad and forcing globalized corporations to pay a minimum wage for all workers abroad.

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Originally written by spy-there:


Saunders and her man look indeed very happy on that picture. As if they were recently married. Hence congrats to your lucky match, Saunders.

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Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

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Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

Why so indignant? Isn't that just what you've been proposing needs to be done to the 'Muslim theocracies'? If you're going to play by barbaric rules, don't turn around and get pissy if the other side is in the habit of the same.

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I suggest reading the posts you quote before you comment about them. My reasoning for what needs to be done to the muslim theocracys is because of this.

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