"Policing" ourselves?

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AuthorTopic: "Policing" ourselves?
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #77
An idea about the causes and origins that cannot be verified is a hypothesis. ID is a hypothesis. Invisible gremlins pulling invisibile strings to draw masses together is a hypothesis for the cause of gravity.

—Alorael, who will give ID credit for accepting evolution. The two aren't really mutually exclusive, because evolution describes only the mechanisms and ID only the cause. The problem is that ID seems to take on the role of mechanism as well, somehow, which makes it no more than drawn out creationsm.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
Profile Homepage #78
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Scientific theories make testable predictions. Intelligent design predicts a lack of evidence.
So is string theory "scientific" then? Last time I checked, is was not according to your definition yet what else but a theory would you call this great effort in mathematical physics going on since decades?

Let us not quarrel over words but rather read what we each have to say before we post.

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The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine)
Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #79
String theory is trying to make testable predictions. So far it has not succeeded, but it does differ from doctrines which accept untestability as a goal. String theory is a scientific failure (so far), but it is scientific.

General relativity, by the way, does explain what gravity is, in a way that Newtonian gravitation does not. Einsteinian gravity is the geometry of spacetime: time runs slower the closer you are to a massive object. And this is a true reduction, and not just a begging of the question, Why does time run slower?

Time passes, everywhere, and this we have always known. Einstein tells us to admit the possibility that it passes differently in different places. Why not? Once the prospect of variable time flow is raised, we realize that our naive assumption that time marches everywhere in lockstep was simply arbitrary and unwarranted. So what would happen then, we ask, if time did flow differently in different places? This question can be answered, without making any additional assumptions, and the answer is that the effects would be exactly those that in Newton's day we called gravity. The beautiful conclusion, then, is that gravity IS differential time flow.

We always had spacetime geometry, though before we thought it was trivial; and before we also had gravitational force. After Einstein, instead of these two things, we have only one.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #80
Einstein doesn't tell us where gravity comes from, though, because he can only say that it comes from the fact that it comes from spacetime. So where does that come from? Sooner or later we run into the problem of why the uniform works at all, and then we're stuck throwing around hypotheses or just shrugging.

—Alorael, who may have to start telling time in megalithic inches now.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #81
After a certain point, the answer to the question "Why" is "That question has been asked under a false premise."

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
Profile Homepage #82
I have occasion to revive this topic due to the following post:
quote:
Jumpin' Salmon ½ Man, ½ Amazing Member # 5755 written May 07, 2006 11:18 PM

Humans are gifted with the luxury of hindsight, and the feeling of emotional loss that may accompany it. It probably would have been "better" if native Americans had been 100% eliminated.
It would have meant much less suffering on the Rez, including the chronic alcoholism, drug addiction, and suicide that plague native Americans.
We could have marveled over artifacts such as spearpoints and pointed at intricate weavings or cave paintings and nodded sagely, confident that those long lost peoples were noble savages, one with the earth and able to communicate with the animals.

Bleagh.
I find this post is derogatory to a racial minority and violates the CoC. What do the oldbies think of this? Am I too sensitive? I do not want to be counted as a member of a forum where such offensive rubbish is posted.

[ Monday, May 08, 2006 08:37: Message edited by: too long, don't read, too many CRs ]

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The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine)
Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #83
You know, maybe the "Bleagh" at the end of the post denoted sarcasm... in fact, the post just sounds somewhere between mildly tongue-in-cheek and blatantly cynical.

Okay, at least the revival makes sense. But I think that this topic could've just faded away, and nobody would've had to think of it again, misunderstanding or no.

And seriously, we've had much more offensive stuff posted here than that.

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #84
Originally by too long, don't read, too many CRs:

quote:
Am I too sensitive?
Forgive my bluntness and lack of tact (those are some of my shortcomings), but yes. You are on the sensitive side in a forum that is fairly insensitive at times. I say this not because of the specific example you just sited, but for other instances, like your name change.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #85
quote:
Originally written by too long, don't read, too many CRs:

I have occasion to revive this topic due to the following post:
...

Topic revival is frowned upon.

Especially when there are already 3 other topics discussing the same thing.

Especially after this topic moved on to discussing something else.

Especially when you are responding to something said in a different thread which is still active.

Especially when you yourself have just posted something else in the thread from which you are taking this post without replying to it.

I like seeing some serious discussions here, but having 5 threads dealing with genocides, fascists, and murderers near the top of page 1 is way too much for a board dedicated to computer games.

[ Monday, May 08, 2006 10:43: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #86
I take JS's post as Swiftian sarcasm. Impressively multi-pronged, too.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #87
quote:
Originally written by too long, don't read, too many CRs:

I have occasion to revive this topic due to the following post:
quote:
Jumpin' Salmon ½ Man, ½ Amazing Member # 5755 written May 07, 2006 11:18 PM

Humans are gifted with the luxury of hindsight, and the feeling of emotional loss that may accompany it. It probably would have been "better" if native Americans had been 100% eliminated.
It would have meant much less suffering on the Rez, including the chronic alcoholism, drug addiction, and suicide that plague native Americans.
We could have marveled over artifacts such as spearpoints and pointed at intricate weavings or cave paintings and nodded sagely, confident that those long lost peoples were noble savages, one with the earth and able to communicate with the animals.

Bleagh.
I find this post is derogatory to a racial minority and violates the CoC. What do the oldbies think of this? Am I too sensitive? I do not want to be counted as a member of a forum where such offensive rubbish is posted.

Too kraut, didn't read
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
Profile Homepage #88
How would you react to some corresponding Swiftean sarcasm about H. failing to "complete" the Holocaust?
I ask for consistence in standards.

--------------------
The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine)
Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #89
quote:
Originally written by too kraut, don't read:

How would you react to some corresponding Swiftean sarcasm about H. failing to "complete" the Holocaust?
I ask for consistence in standards.

In case you still don't understand Salmon's post, it contains two main ideas:

1. Pointing out terrible conditions in which Native Americans still live on reservations.

2. Making fun of the "noble savage" stereotype that used to be quite popular and is still alive in some circles.

So to answer your question, if somebody made similar statement about antisemitism in modern world and Hitler, I'd be thankful for his support. And by the way, there was a Jewish antisemitic cartoon contest recently, in responce to Iranian antisemitic cartoon contest. So as you can see, there is plenty of similar humor about Holocaust already.

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #90
quote:
Originally written by too kraut, don't read:

How would you react to some corresponding Swiftean sarcasm about H. failing to "complete" the Holocaust?
I ask for consistence in standards.

I'm pretty f-ing impressed that you hid your criticism of my post in this thread. Next time you have a problem with one of my posts, either suck it up or PM me.

It looks like your revival impressed a group of people. So, what is your agenda? Like the more read folks in here had noticed, I was making several points all at once, followed by a word of distaste to signify that the whole concept was undignified. I'd take the time to explain the whole cynical comment, but I can't seem to find it to be worth my time. Sorry. At least some other folks understood it.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
Profile Homepage #91
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Salmon:

quote:
Originally written by too kraut, don't read:

How would you react to some corresponding Swiftean sarcasm about H. failing to "complete" the Holocaust?
I ask for consistence in standards.

I'm pretty f-ing impressed that you hid your criticism of my post in this thread. Next time you have a problem with one of my posts, either suck it up or PM me.

It looks like your revival impressed a group of people. So, what is your agenda? Like the more read folks in here had noticed, I was making several points all at once, followed by a word of distaste to signify that the whole concept was undignified. I'd take the time to explain the whole cynical comment, but I can't seem to find it to be worth my time. Sorry. At least some other folks understood it.

Apparently this is taken to be a personal matter, so I should explain my personal sensitivity which may appear as an allergy. I stand by the part that is due to German education after WWII. More personally impressive were serious remarks that backed the Holocaust that I hit me like a bolt from the blue in conversation with otherwise "normal" people in Ireland and in Poland. I have no humor in anything that reminds me of that - even if it is by a misunderstanding.

--------------------
The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine)
Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
Profile #92
Zeviz:
quote:
I like seeing some serious discussions here, but having 5 threads dealing with genocides, fascists, and murderers near the top of page 1 is way too much for a board dedicated to computer games.


Lightening up the discusssion, check out these links. Not for the weak... then again, times sure have changed... what Americans were willing to do in WW2 to lampoon the enemy... imagine if we made a cartoon like this today about Iraq!

Once again... an original WW2 cartoon that they don't show much today!

Here's some Looney Tunes for you (take that Japan!)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=K...search=ww2

And don't think Disney is innocent either (right in der Fuehrer's face!)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=e...20commando

[ Wednesday, May 10, 2006 09:23: Message edited by: Strontium ]

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #93
Strontium: That was Zeviz, not me. Pay attention.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
Profile #94
Brain cramp

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
BANNED
Member # 2064
Profile #95
Hmm. It seems my actions have lead to repercussions much larger than I had expected.

quote:
Back to OM's original post. Apart from revealing gross lack of information - unless he was trolling - he asked for an exchange of opinion and - since then - is absent from the whole discussion as far as I see.
The topic was made mainly as an experiment, and observation means, and I refrained from continuing it in respect for Aran, though most of the damage had already been done. I would post my full views here, but I don't think anyone would want that now would they. The human race has, and always will be primitive in ways. The strongest man will win. Today, that is translated as the man with the most weapons and followers. The government tries to control that, and change the foundation of humanity, which will not succeed in the long run. was a man that attempted to follow the basic laws of humans to gain dominance, and while he died, does anyone here think he truely failed to get his point by? I'll stop now before this becomes even more of an all out flamewar. I see no need to appologize for my views, though I am sorry if people have lost family members/friends to the actions of Adolf Hitler.

[ Thursday, May 11, 2006 09:04: Message edited by: Yours Sincerely, The Boogyman. ]

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I am an idiot.
Posts: 775 | Registered: Friday, October 11 2002 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #96
quote:
Originally written by Yours Sincerely, The Boogyman.:

The government tries to control that, and change the foundation of humanity, which will not succeed in the long run. was a man that attempted to follow the basic laws of humans to gain nce, and while he died, does anyone here think he truely failed to get his point by?
Something to ponder: every leader in history who lived by the philosophy "might makes right" was eventually defeated by another leader with more might behind him. Is that fact a refutation or a vindication of those leaders' principles?

[ Thursday, May 11, 2006 01:24: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3980
Profile Homepage #98
quote:
Originally written by Yours Sincerely, The Boogyman.:

The human race has, and always will be primitive in ways. The strongest man will win. ... clip ... Adolf Hitler.
No. We have survived as social and cultural communities.
Think of the survival of the Jews over the millenia.
Then think of the Nazi secular and other Millenarianism.
Survival does not hinge on individual strength but on intact families and grass-roots communities.
Think of our cultural values as rules derived from experience over the ages.
H. had to fail because he had no insight in the importance of values that went beyond egocentric hybris. He did proclaim:
quote:
What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race...so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission alloted it by the creator of the universe.
Notice his ignorance of culture in favor of biologic race. Races are not associated with values. Even so, it was all bogus because his whole time scale was "personal" rather than eternal. This was observed by Pope Pius XII:
quote:
Ich müsste mich sehr, sehr täuschen, wenn dies hier ein gutes Ende nehmen sollte. Dieser Mensch ist völlig von sich selbst besessen, alles, was ihm nicht dient, verwirft er, was er sagt und schreibt, trägt den Stempel seiner Selbstsucht, dieser Mensch geht über Leichen und tritt nieder, was ihm im Weg ist - ich kann nur nicht begreifen, dass selbst so viele von den Besten in Deutschland dies nicht sehen, oder wenigstens aus dem, was er schreibt und sagt, eine Lehre zu ziehen - wer von all diesen hat überhaupt das haarsträubende Buch »Mein Kampf« gelesen?" - über Adolf Hitler, 1929
This was epitomizedby a leading Nazi (cannot come up with the name at the moment) as "Mein Gesetz heißt Adolf Hitler", i.e. "My law is called Adolf Hitler". In the end H. deemed the Germans not worthy of himself and ordered explicitly complete selfdestruction. Göring was similar. Think of his words upon being captured "At least 12 years of a decent life." These guys maximized individual "strength".
Then read what Thuryl rightly observed in the post above.

What you admire as primitive strength is just inadequate compensation for lack of socialisation of a loser, imho. Watch out there are more around!

[ Monday, May 15, 2006 03:35: Message edited by: too kraut, don't read ]

--------------------
The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.
The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference.
The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference.
And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference.
Because of indifference, one dies before one actually dies. (not mine)
Posts: 311 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #99
I think, by the way, that I have found a satisfactory answer to the question I posed: anyone who would claim that might makes right understands neither might nor right.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00

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