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Singleton party in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #42
I've been taking a break from my singleton game. He's still at the Tower Colony, fuming over his inability to do anything with Kelner's Dispel Barrier reward for his recent heroics upstairs.

I went back to a save before I gave him his last Mage spell level and bumped Priest up to 8 to get Heal. It's a long way to Divine Retribution...like 8 more levels! So, I probably wasted one Mage Spell level, but I'm not going back that far to undo it. I checked around from an old endgame, and I didn't find a mage who sells Dispel Barrier anywhere, which is what I was pretty sure I remembered was the case. So, I will buy and hold onto all the Piercing Crystals I get my hands on. I seem to remember most of them come from caches later in the game, however. I'd like to at least do all the testing shade locations if I can.

As for levelling-up, he's at Level 27, well ahead of where someone hitting the Tower would normally be, so I am coming out ahead of a party of four in individual level. Obviously, I am not four times ahead or even two times ahead of four PC's in level, but I might be 50% ahead at present. This is due mostly to quest rewards, rather than monster kill points.

[ Thursday, December 29, 2005 19:18: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Singleton party in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #37
Pilgrim’s Progress: How I got from Mertis to the Tower in Five Easy Steps.

My singleton is holding his own just fine against all challenges still. I finished the Spiral Crypt no trouble. Well, a little trouble. It’s not even the main quest in the crypt which was so pesky. It was the undead keeper of the mayor’s sash which proved a bit annoying with his Freeze Spell. I’m trying to keep things general enough so they are not specific spoilers, especially since Slarty hasn’t been here yet. It took three tries. I ran in, acided each pylon twice, darted back out and waited for it to die. Finally, when only the keeper was left, I acided him and ran back out around the corner. He followed me and we exchanged blows, the difference being that mine actually hit him. But eventually he hit me with the Freeze Spell effectively and my tank had to sit there and take a few occasional blows until finally he woke up. After that, I made quick work of him.

So, even though I haven’t totally cleared out the Honeycomb and need to go back to Athron’s Lair, I thought I’d go down to the Tower Colony and take care of a little business there and earn myself Dispel Barrier finally. This is one confrontation I have been worried about. But, as it turns out, it was also very easy, once I got a strategy down. Basically, hasted and facing the big boy at the end, I darted into line of sight, dumped him with acid, and darted back out of sight. He never moves, and if I wasn’t in sight during his turn, he’d only occasionally summon up some critters. When the critters ran over and got in my way, I’d spend a turn or two removing them, making sure to be out of big boy’s sights at the end of my turn. Instead of using Repel Spirit on him at 6 SP, which did about 40 damage, I just kept dumping acid on his head at 3 SP and an average of around 33 damage per turn. It took a while, but big boy just crumpled eventually.

Imagine the shouting when I realized that my reward of Dispel Barrier is granted by way of being given access to....a spellbook. Oops. And....arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh! I totally forgot this factor. This totally botches up the training path I was on. I was just finishing my mage spells and could have now moved back to priest or defensive stats. Except I have no way to actually acquire Dispel Barrier now. Anyone know offhand, how many Arcane Lore it takes to read that book? I could of course use the editor and find out. Right now, I’m a bit too consternated, and wondering what to do. I think I wasted one or two mage spell levels, if I am NOT going to be going to Dispel Barrier. That’s 18 freaking points.

This just got a lot less possible, or at least a lot less fun at the moment. Barriers hereafter are largely too strong for piercing crystals, I believe, including the one in the Honeycomb I bumped into already. I can’t remember if there is any barrier I actually need to get through to win the game. Can anyone think of any I am going to be in trouble without being able to dispel? It’s quite possible that there aren’t any critical ones, actually. Mostly they guard spellbooks...and the testing rooms. Maybe the latter are dispellable by crystal, though even they aren’t essential.

[ Tuesday, December 27, 2005 01:52: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Hack and slash, slash, slash, slash, slash, slash... in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #3
Curiously enough, hacking through all the chitrachs as a singleton was easier than with my previous parties of four. He has over 3/4 poison immunity, and parries or dodges 7/8 chitrach blows, so it was easy to send him in anywhere and just hack away, casting the occasional Icy Rain, fireball, or Lightning Spray if things got too crowded for my liking. Hasted and blessed and shielded, he carved through them pretty effectively. Riposte wasn't that big a deal with the plated chits...maybe it happened 1/3 or 1/4 of the time, perhaps due to my high Blademaster.

P.S. I agree about too many chitrachs. They become very tedious indeed. More does not equal better. Frequently, more is less. I'd rather see something very clever than something that seems interminable.

[ Tuesday, December 27, 2005 02:00: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
The Avernite 4 Christmas in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #11
And one of us even had time to write the thing. ;)

Here is Jeff's reply, which showed up today:

"Heh, that's fun. Did you post it to the boards?"

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Giscard in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #3
I believe it only takes four bottles of wine to make the gremlin happy. You found the two in the storeroom, and the one sold by the wine seller east of Formello. There are two bottles upstairs in a locker in Giscard's house. There is one in the Gremlin Cave near Silvar. There is one in Hrosharr's bandit fortress in the SW Honeycomb. I think there is one other one in the E. Gallery somewhere...maybe in a bandit lair there.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Singleton party in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #28
My Divinely Touched Kitty has made it to Mertis and has already hit Hosharr’s HQ and the guardian drake at Athron’s Lair. I was working my way to the heart of the Spiral Crypt, but just ran out of Piercing Crystals. Oops. I’d have more if I’d been able to uncover caches in this game. I never had this problem before.

He’s at Level 25 which is a bit whacked. Normally, PC’s are in the upper teens or so when they hit Mertis. I think that it is quite possible a singleton will gain higher levels than possible with any more than one PC, maybe just due to the points awarded for all the quests being given to one PC alone. These don’t seem to be altered by Level, unlike monster kills.

He’s still dodging nearly everything, though not quite as consistently as he was in the E. Gallery. I am falling quite behind on Priest Spells and need one or two mage spell levels to get Dispel Barrier still, and the Tower Colony is not far off. I also need more strength than the five I have, but just can’t afford to do it now—need to get Dispel Barrier. The real question is whether I can keep up with my spell levels to any reasonable amount. Getting to Divine Retribution is going to take a lot of SP. That might have to happen via Strine’s Knowledge Brews near the end. I’m also not sure that I’m going to be able to keep this dodge-ability up over the next portion of the game as I focus on bringing up some spell levels mostly.

I have the Clover Boots, so my Luck is at 7. Blademaster is at 13. I never really needed to buy those two levels of Melee Weapons, probably. Oh, and I’m rolling in loot now..14,000 and counting, with nothing I need to spend it on, or can, since I am behind on my spells.

I got the Emerald Chestguard successfully. I did it two ways. The first is so stupidly easy, I am quite sure Jeff forgot to make it necessary to get through Nociduas to get at the armor, instead of just sneaking by him. I also tried taking him and his pet demon off the map, and succeeded on my second or third attempt, but it took 8 Invulnerabilty Potions to do it, which is rather ridiculous. I played onward from the sneaky thief success and saved my potions. Killing Noci and his summons only netted me about 65 XP anyway. Big deal.

What Alo said in the other thread about a singleton only winding up with 1/4 a party’s points in the end, that’s my point exactly when I suggest making a singleton with at least 2x the normal 75 starting points. My singleton is way ahead on level, but way behind on skills. It’s triage every time I invest new SP’s. I don’t know if I can get him to Divine Retribution at all, actually. I might have to strategize otherwise, and maybe go up to Divine Fire or take the mage up to Fireblast instead, and focus otherwise on remaining largely unhittable. All my spell levels are at exactly 2. Minor Heal is feeling wimpy now, maybe because I of my relatively low spell levels and the fact I have no Spellcraft at all yet. Oh, there’s something to go spend some money on....and Magery too.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Singleton party in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #27
So, my singleton game continues. I have nearly finished mopping up two of three bandit leaders in the E. Gallery. I am getting 0-1 point per Thug, six or seven points per goblin bandit, and 3-6 points per chitrach.

It's kind of ridiculous, but almost nothing is hitting me right now. Maybe one of eight times, something hits me. I even deflect half or more magic thrown at me. Even the chits are missing, which gives me enough time to run them through before getting poisoned, at least when I am handling one or two at a time. It will be interesting to see how I survive a couple of the chit ambushes coming up.

I am getting this great dodge-ability from 4 Dex, 4 Luck, 4 Parry, and 2 Gymnastics, the latter two free from DT. I am surprised how effective this is, considering the relatively low numbers. I'm nearly at Level 18. I keep expecting this effort to break, but it's really going surprisingly well.

I'm still leveling up ahead of a party of four, and my kill points are actually more than 0-1 for many of my foes.

When I get charmed—as I did by a couple Mindreaper Spiders recently, nothing happens except I waste a few turns waiting for it to wear off.

This just might work.

[ Sunday, December 25, 2005 23:17: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Dodge maximizing in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #4
You could use those Knowledge Brews at the end to pump up Nature Lore, then walk over every square inch of the explored world to uncover all the caches. Cash it all in for a bit more training at Bargha or Fort Remote before the final 3 dungeons. Use the extra gained herbs to either add more Nature Lore or fill in any gaps in other skills.

This is one idea of what one/I might do with the situation. Also, as a singleton, I never have to make more than one of anything specially crafted, so I don't use extra mandrake, etc. making something like Answering Gauntlets. This should leave most ingredients for Knowledge Brews. Any extra Healing and Spiritual Herbs can be sold off at the end toward more spells or traning.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Are there secret passages? in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #34
Let's not quote this again.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
New info on skills, esp LUCK in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #12
All right, you talked me into it. I'm going to keep going with my unadulterated singleton as far as I can. If it fails, I may try a dual party next. Combat-wise, my singleton has been holding his own. He did just fine in the Draco Mines and Motrax Lair. If I can accept the fact I will never read a spellbook or open a cache, I could make this guy a decent tank, thief, and magician in the long run.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Secret Treasure on Slith Island in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #13
Seattle, where I live, and where Jeff lives, is nicknamed "The Emerald City".

This has been worthless trivia factoid #427c.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Secret Treasure on Slith Island in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #11
Is this a rhetorical question, like "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" - or - "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?"

What makes the Emerald Chestguard absolutely Sick in its merits, apart from its healthy various stat benefits, is the fact that it is 100% non-encumbering. This is ideal for a magician who can't otherwise wear heavy armor, but it does great on a fighter with a lot of other encumbrance too.

For this reason, though there is armor with better various stats in other ways, the Emerald Chestguard is, hands down, the best armor in the game, in my opinion.

[ Sunday, December 25, 2005 19:11: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
****ty Christmas and #@!%ing new year!! in General
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #15
I am thinking that Josephus might have left out any mention of Jesus because he didn't really make any immediate historical impact outside the numerous lives he is said to have personaly touched. In future decades after the death of Jesus around 34 A.D., as Christianity began to spread like wildfire, the impact became visible, though it was indirect. Josephus wrote in gruesome detail, the bloody horrors that befell the city of Jerusalem when it was sieged and ravaged by Titus and his armies in 70 A.D., fulfilling prophecies Jesus is said to have made about the destruction of the temple and the "end times" of the end of the age of the law in which the wise are told to flee the city when they see it encircled. Many did, especially Christians, so it is said. Those who remained behind were slaugthered.

Separate from its transparent pagan origins of being "Christianized" by Constantine in the third century so the masses could still have their old solstice festivals, what is weird and overwrought about Christmas to me is this overcelebration of a baby being born. If one believes in the Christ, then it is his resurrection (and not even his death) which is real moment of his life to celebrate. It's a cute story, but the birth of the baby in a smelly stable was the least important part of his whole life. So why do so many obsess over it? It's perpetual focus on a cute, helpless baby view of God, rather than focusing on one of real power, victory, or maturity.

[ Sunday, December 25, 2005 19:23: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Early Gear in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #3
There are two steel spears to be had near Fort Monastery, and they can be yours without killing and friendlies just as soon as you can fight your way to them, which is from the very beginning.

One is in the pit in the nephil camp to the east of the fort, and the other is in a pit by the fisherman along the river, south of the fort. Fight a few nephils or a few more goblins and bats to get there.

EDIT: Oops, you're right..I was talking about iron spears. I wasn't even thinking an actual steel spear would be anywhere near Fort Monastery.

[ Monday, December 26, 2005 08:36: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
New info on skills, esp LUCK in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #10
It sure isn't much fun holding off on all these poorly-located trainers. I think one good approach to playing a game is to role play as if you don't know what trainers lie ahead or where...and do what seems intuitive: invest in the skills you want and need right now. Any decently built party of four, even on Torment, can and should do quite well even without "perfect" conservation of all possible skill point assignment. It becomes more critical for a party of one or two. I think a party of two is doable without editing.

I am giving my singleton PC 80 skill points worth of Knowledge Elixirs with the Bodrie editor just now, though, because I want the starting skill points of two PC's to work with. I will bring up his Arcane Lore and Nature Lore now, as I would have if I had been playing with all the points all along. I will still face some brutally difficult strategic battles as a singleton and the usual level-up problems, so it will be no walk in the park. I have the original unadulterated game saved as well, in case I want to ever play it out and see if it could even be successful.

[ Sunday, December 25, 2005 18:40: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Marsh Worm Fangs in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #0
Weirdness...I never saw this before. In the NE corner of the E. Gallery, you'll bump into a marsh worm or two, which have added (so far) two "marsh worm fangs" to my Special Items inventory, as if they were another trophy quest. Yet no one ever gives this quest, nor does the hint book refer to marsh worms or fangs at all. Has anyone actually found someone asking for marsh worm fangs, or is this an anomaly left over from some abandoned quest idea?

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Erika's Ruins Gate in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #6
Perhaps it will help (someone) to mention that Erika's ruins on the other side of the river is a LONG way round, and a lot of fighting through various foes to get there. You can visit the east half of Erika's ruins on the east side of the river right after getting through Spire. It will be quite a while before one makes it to the other side of the river and back down that far south. But the thing to remember is to step on the rune on the ground when you get there.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
The Avernite 4 Christmas in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #9
quote:
Originally written by Cirion:

Well put together though it was, I doubt anyone would actually pay you for it.
It was a labor of love. Free of charge to the motley and multitudinous denizens of Spiderweb. And remember—you get what you pay for. ;)

quote:
How did Jeff like it?
I'm not sure. I think he has had better things to do with his Christmas so far. If his response is amusing enough, I'll post it here when I get it.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Editor avaliable in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #19
Thanks Hawk and Duality. I got your updated version of the editor, Hawk. Just so you are aware, the version you modified has the 2000 gold per iron bar feature in it. I don't want that, so I edited it back to normal, and fixed up the grammar for the Knowledge Elixirs to my liking. Yeah, not so hard to do, after all. Now I can set up a singleton with the Skill Points of two PCs.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
The Avernite 4 Christmas in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #7
Actually, I'd be even happier if they just gave me the money they spent buying 50 billion powerball tickets.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Singleton party in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #22
I think Jeff is making a mistake in intentionally crippling singleton play, as if there were something inherently insulting about the very concept. A number of people enjoy the challenge, and why make party size optional at all if one or maybe even two PC's can't really play a game through in any proper way satisfactorily? This only takes away from the variety and challenge of gaming experience—or its replayability.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
New info on skills, esp LUCK in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #8
My nephil has 57 armor, only 54 of which I can account for. Is there a base armor value of 4? If half my armor rating is added to fire/cold resistance, then that should be 32 armor to get the 16 fire/cold resistance points I can't account for, but half my armor rating would be 27 or 28.5. Could you go through an example from a PC of your own how you think this works?

Also, at some point, you/we should resummarize what we think we know now about investing in skills. Clearly Luck is worthy of a certain amount of investment and going overboard for Gymnastics is probably not particularly useful. Looks also like Strength is worth bumping up to at least 8-10 for a fighter.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Singleton party in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #19
A duo would be a good challenge as well. I was thinking about that a bit while undertaking the singleton challenge.

My singleton is about where Slarty is with his feline foursome evidently, in the E. Gallery, whittling away at the east half. I'm at Level 16 now, and getting pretty much no points for kills, unless it's something much tougher than me. I'm getting nearly all my XP from completing quests only. Money is actually a problem, having missed so many caches and some thieving already. I have trained in melee and quick action in Silvar, but still need arcane lore, defense, and hardiness—then spellcraft and magery too if I can afford it later. I'll be getting a lot more loot out of the E. Gallery. I'm only a fourth through it so far.

I might have to forgo Arcane Lore entirely. I can't see being able to afford the points for it, and I think I can do without spellbooks entirely. It would be good to figure out how much Spell levels 1-5 really affect spell strength, and how much difference there is between level 1and 2 especially. Many spells just increase duration, which is not a big deal for the most part.

I will keep going with this singleton as long as I can actually make progress. The Tower Colony will be an interesting challenge and it will involve Invulnerability Potions. Whether I can survive it or not remains to be seen.

I think it would be a more representative challenge, considering this game engine, to be able to edit in at least 2 PC's worth of skill points at the beginning. It can only predictably be workable really, if one can either level up faster and further as a singleton or start out with more points. I will be interested to see if I stay ahead of the curve (My party of four DT nephils is in Mertis right now at levels 17-18).

I have 9 Blademaster already...not sure why I put 2 points in melee instead of something else first. I came into the E. Gallery with some 8000 gold. I have 4 parry, 5 sharpshooter, 2 gymnastics, 5 magery, 4 bows - all free from my traits and race. I only have 5 priest and 7 mage...I have unlock doors, but need to get up to lightning spray.

What's really hurting too is Strength, Dex ,and End are all at 4, and Intelligence at 3. It's very hard finding the right time to bump any of these up. Luck is 4, Tool Use 11.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
New info on skills, esp LUCK in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #2
Slarty said:

FIRE, COLD, and ELECTRICITY
+2% per Hardiness
+4% per Resistance
+1% per Luck
+9% (fixed) if Divinely Touched

But I can't figure out where my singleton is getting some Fire and Cold resistance by this model. He's got 9% for being DT and 4% more from Luck, but he's got 29% total in each without using any items. Where's the other 16% coming from? I have no hardiness and no resistance yet. All I can guess is +4% per level of Endurance, as I have 4 of that.

Nice work, by the way.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Singleton party in Avernum 4
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #15
A little update. I'm to Fort Draco. Level 8. 6 Blademaster, 3 Parry, 3 Sharpshooter all due to Traits alone. It's getting tougher. Some of those nephil clans were tricky. Strength through Dexterity are all at only 3.

But amazingly, with these lame stats, lizards, nephils, and skeletons mostly can't hit me. Battles involve bless/protect, and mostly don't get hit while I strike two hits of sword (better) or bow (good) to take out most foes. It is apparent that I do have to be a tank, because I get surrounded by foes frequently and have to defend myself long enough to whittle them away to nothing. I am dreading the fights I know are coming up under the Fort Draco mines and in the Motrax caves by Formello.

My Tool Use is falling far short already, so I will be coming back later for numerous things. I have uncovered the one cache near Fort Monastery which, apparently, has zero Nature Lore requirement. It is going to be some time before I read my first spell book. Survival till Cotra is the Big Quest Part I. Getting the Emerald Chestguard will be the Big Quest Part 2.

Divine Fire, Enduring Shield and Divine Retribution are the only priest spells I don't already have which I really need ultimately, and Divine Fire is a ways off now. First, I'll get mage spells to Lightning Spray and Unlock Doors.

Where's your kitty squad at now, Slartucker? (I'm also curious where your nickname comes from?)

[ Saturday, December 24, 2005 23:26: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00

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