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I like it, but... in Avernum 4
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #24
Because "what she believes is right" is so obviously not right that the train of thought usually stops right there. She's stupidly clinging to something that's clearly evil. That's a generic evil villain.

Rentar is dead. Dead dead dead. In A5, people will talk about how dead she is. So says Jeff.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Spiderweb Monthly Stats - February 2007 in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #27
I agree with Imban on this, though: Infernal Flamming Muffin is now "Iffy" as far as I'm concerned.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Spiderweb IRL in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #4
Three, I believe. Here I'm counting anyone who I've ever spoken to in person who also has an account on these boards, regardless of chronology, so I'm counting that I've met Slarty, for example, even though we met looong before I was on Spidweb (and even before NK0P).

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Has anyone ever tried... in Blades of Avernum Editor
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #1
See this thread for a discussion of Geneforge in BoA possibilities. No one has released a scenario doing this, but we've given a crossover some thought.

Um, but that particular plot sounds as though it lacks promise.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Spiderweb Monthly Stats - February 2007 in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #21
How am I still in the top ten?

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Jeff, please respond - Magic and Avernum 5 in Avernum 4
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #18
At some point while making Exodus, I noted the following:

BoA has thirty statuses, but the default spellset can only affect sixteen (if I've counted right) of those, and it can only usefully confer about eight.

To put it another way, there is no way to poison a creature, and the only spell that will do acid damage is Spray Acid, which does so little damage that it's not worth it. This is a non-trivial point, because there are seven kinds of damage, and spells can only significantly inflict four kinds on a regular basis: fire, cold, magic, and weapon.

Similarly, there are seven kinds of fields, and the default spellset can only create one. Area-of-effect spells, mainstays in the Exile engine, are gone from Avernum, and their replacements are not quite the same.

[ Sunday, February 18, 2007 18:16: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
What have you been reading lately? in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #320
When you clearly don't understand the rules, it's easy to be confused when the rules are implemented.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #55
SoT: The trick is "properly trained," I would argue. None of us here know about trireme crew training, but I'd be surprised if no classicist knows, and I'd also be surprised if it weren't very thorough.

There is no doubt that ancient Greek warriors were pretty darn strong, because they wore hoplite armor and were still able to move around (and we have a good sense of what hoplite armor looked like, because we've dug up reasonably intact pieces of it). But again, we have to be careful with our comparisons: are we comparing average physical strength of modern people to ancient Greeks, or are we comparing strength of modern athletes to Greek rowers? I would contend that we moderns are on average pretty fat and slothful, and the Greeks probably had much more stamina, whether or not they had more muscle mass. Our athletes are another thing again, though.

Once we start getting into issues of diet and exact body composition, we have to start specifying more than just "ancient Greece." The pre-classical Mycenean Greeks had a radically different diet from the Athenians of the 4th and 5th centuries B.C., judging by skeletal remains, for example.

And ancient people were not all short. Many of them were, and average heights were probably lower than they are now, but there have always been some exceptionally tall people (especially among the rich and well-fed), and there were some six-footers even then (again judging by skeletal remains).

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Oldbiehood -- Analysis in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #37
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

I think I know who TM is, but Kelandon thinks I don't.
Again, no.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #47
quote:
Originally written by Kyrek:

With little strength, you wouldn't be able to row very well.
I wouldn't, no, but I'm not much of an athlete. :P Our modern athletes are pretty darn strong, though, and once you have a fair bit of sheer muscle power, perfect technique matters a lot more than slight increases in muscle power.

quote:
Some of it is technique, but technigue doesn't make up for the speed at which the Greeks could row.
How can you possibly know this? Have you done the biomechanical calculations?

quote:
The modern oarsmen of the trireme could keep a pace of 9 knots for only seconds.
I reject the idea that the modern imitation was a definitive test of what is possible. Before the 1970's, surely people attempted the Spartathlon and failed, and they must have said that the Phidippides story wasn't possible. Now we know that it is possible (but still not necessarily true), because people succeeded.

But the fact that we tried and failed once doesn't mean that it's not possible. That's just a silly idea.

[ Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:24: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Oldbiehood -- Analysis in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #26
Riibu, I'd put you in the very beginning of the third generation (whereas I'm at the very end). Obviously the distinction is somewhat arbitrary, but that's how I'd make it.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Oldbiehood -- Analysis in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #23
quote:
Originally written by The Dikiyora:

While I realize that I am most certainly not in your generation, I must object. I know exactly who TM is and I was able to see him in action (fortunately or unfortunately).
I didn't say "nothing." I said "very little."

quote:
Originally written by Nuclear Socks:

Uh, Kel? I'm pretty sure TM is one of the oldbies of oldbies as well as being the king of kings. He was definitely around on day one of the Ikonboard, and I'm reasonably certain he was around for the pre-Spiderweb boards.
TM arrived between the Third Contest and the Fourth Contest, which puts him squarely in the very end of 2000 or somewhere in 2001. That's close enough to the dawn of the Ikonboard that I count him in the second generation.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Rate Homeland : The Stone of Night in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #33
They're trying to destroy the evidence of the horror once unleashed upon the unsuspecting inhabitants of this plane of existence.

I once had the inclination to borrow my friend's computer to try to play Homeland, just to see what was so bad about it. I sat down until the feeling passed.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #45
Eh, I can't actually speak to this on the basis of a real assessment of the evidence, as I wanted — no real time. But I do think it's worth pointing out that certain things that seem at first glance to be pure speculation — classical pronunciation is my favorite example — can in fact be known pretty darn solidly. We've actually solved the question of how the Greeks and Romans spoke, which seems completely impossible at first.

With that in mind, I don't doubt that the Greeks rowed faster than we can easily imitate. After all, they had been rowing triremes for centuries and had handed techniques down by word-of-mouth for that entire time. Rowers rowed their entire lives. They were in better shape than we are, by and large, but our stronger athletes are probably comparable to their manual laborers in strength. Nevertheless, as was pointed out, technique matters much more than raw strength in rowing, and their technique was probably unparalleled.

All of this suggests that they could very well have rowed triremes faster than we can, but none of it proves that they were genetically stronger than we are. For comparison, the ancient Greeks had bards who had memorized the entire epic cycle — that is, the Iliad, the Odyssey, and six other epics of comparable magnitude (the Cypria, the Aithiopis, the Little Iliad, the Sack of Ilion, the Returns, and the Telegony) — and probably a handful of other epic poems, too. They had hundreds of thousands of lines of poetry memorized at instant recall. Does this prove that they had better memories than we do? No, it just shows that, when people learn from the time that they can speak to memorize poems and songs, they can learn volumes that seem unfathomable to those of us who don't spend our entire days learning and reciting poetry. There are bards today — a precious few, but some Irish or Eastern European or other bards remain today — who can do the same with their own poetic traditions.

Likewise, I don't doubt that the Greeks could row at a pace that seems incredible today, but it wasn't due to genetic differences; it was just a matter of practice and technique.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Oldbiehood -- Analysis in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #16
The best explanation I've heard of the oldbie/newbie distinction as it applies to Spidweb went something like this:

The SW community has seen about four generations of members. The first generation, represented by Alec, Drakefyre, Stareye, Thuryl, and others, is the group of people who have been around since long before there was a SW company board, people who were on the mailing list or Aceron's boards or the Lyceum or something pre-Spidweb. These people remember the early days of BoE and things that aren't even on the web anywhere anymore because they were so long ago.

The second generation, represented by Alo, TM, and such, is the group of people who joined shortly before or shortly after the UBB got going. These people remember the Ikonboard or were around just after the switch from it, and they remember the "glory" days of Misc.

The third generation, represented by Aran, me, and the like, is the group of people who joined a few years after the UBB got going. We've been around since the earliest stuff in the PPPs (more or less), but we can't speak too much about Misc or Aceron or people and things that vanished quite some time ago.

The fourth generation, represented by Nioca and others who joined around the same time as he did, is the group of people who have joined within the past year or so. This crowd has seen very little of TM on these boards and nothing of Misc, and they know the major designers for BoA better than the major designers for BoE.

Why place dividing markers where I did? Because they seem to work. This system recognizes that Djur was newer than Alec, that Aran is newer than TM, that Dikiyoba is newer than I am, but doesn't distinguish unduly between, say, Drew and SoT.

[ Friday, February 16, 2007 22:02: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
hello in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #1
Does this make sense and I'm just missing it, or is it as it appears?

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #23
EDIT: *jedi hand-wave* This isn't the double post you're looking for.

[ Thursday, February 15, 2007 15:56: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #22
quote:
Originally written by Aurabolt:

I'm not saying that the Athenians didn't go to battle, I'm saying that they weren't warmongers and incredible tacticians like the Spartans were. They were good, but Sparta was REALLY good.
Again, no. Athenians fought as many wars as the Spartans did, and they beat the Spartans in war sometimes. This distinction is something that middle-school history books make, but it doesn't hold up in real research.

There was definitely a big cultural difference between the two, but it was not as simple and clear-cut as this.

quote:
Also, the records of Grecian times seems to point to a civilization filled with philosophy, indulgence, and to be frank, procrastination. (like our modern society doesn't...yeah right.)Of course Socrates' "guardian" was of able mind AND body, but there was really a strict boundary between them.
Uh, definitely no. A very small fraction was able to have some leisure time. The overwhelming majority did backbreaking labor that would make you sweat just to watch it. They were a heck of a lot more in shape, by and large, than we are.

I also intend to address SoT's questions of evidence, but I don't have time now. Perhaps in a day or two.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #15
quote:
Originally written by Aurabolt:

I have to ask; Are we talking Spartans, Athenians, or Greeks in general? I could totally see the Spartans being that strong since they were an oligaichic society built on war, but it's hard to see the Athenians having that increased strength.
No. This distinction is made to sound more than it actually was by history books. The Athenians were pretty darn strong and athletic too. Competitive sports were huge throughout Greece, and everyone did everything by hand, because there was no other way. The Athenians went to war often, too.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #5
There are two aspects to the story, of course: there's the pre-battle 150-mile 2-day journey and then there's the post-battle marathon all at once. I was objecting to the former, not the latter (which is obviously possible, and could well be fatal due to dehydration, particularly after a battle).

I retract my previous objection, though, based on the fact that some utter freaks can apparently pull this off. If we can, there's no doubt that the ancients could have, too.

In other words, it's possible. And Herodotus does mention how long it took, but he doesn't make a big deal of it the way that he does of many other feats of athletic prowess.

[ Wednesday, February 14, 2007 17:59: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
The Ancient Greeks in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #1
Eh, 150 miles in two days is 75 miles per day. I'd be perfectly willing to believe 25 miles per day; that's easy for anyone living prior to modern slothdom. I'd even believe 50 miles per day for a world-class athlete of the ancient world. But 75 miles per day means running three and a half marathons (!) in a day, which would probably mean at least eight hours of running even for a world-class athlete, which... er... has an outside chance of being possible, but if it were accomplished, it would be a spectacular athletic feat.

The fact that Herodotus doesn't make much of how long it took is pretty damning to the story. He was very fond of recording any story of accomplishment, even if he thought it was spurious, as he notes. Either he had heard of the runner (who he names) but hadn't heard the full story — which seems unlikely — or that part wasn't made up until later.

Then again, the survivals of things resembling fact in what was once thought to be mere folk-tale or fiction have been pretty shocking (i.e. the Iliad and the Trojan War).

[ Wednesday, February 14, 2007 17:59: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
February Blades of Avernum Chat in Blades of Avernum
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #12
If it lasts into the evening, maybe. Probably not, though.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Valentines' Day Suprise in General
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #16
quote:
Originally written by moonear:

Oh, and I'm getting in on change your day too.
That sounds like a self-help holiday. "Change your day! You have the power to make a bad day into a good one!"

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
I wish to play in this game in Russia in Geneforge 4: Rebellion
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #5
Getting the fonts to work properly might require some effort on Jeff's part, which lowers the likelihood, too.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00

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