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Power Corrupts in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #46
The book of Job is, like many books in the Bible, a pastiche. We can detect at least three stylistically and thematically separate stories: the long middle part in which Job suffers and argues with his (supposed) friends; the short penultimate dialogue between Job and God; and the frame in which Satan initially talks God into testing Job, and then at the end Job gets new stuff and a new family.

Many people still wish to assume that the entire book in its current form is a divine revelation; but even these people are not required to interpret the different parts of the book in the same way. For instance, I take the frame story ironically. It casts it all as God's test of Job, when the main theme of the story is, of course, Job's test of God; the point is that both tests are unfair.

The 'whirlwind' scene provides an answer to the problem of evil that is by no means reassuring, but silences me as it does Job: "When was the last time you commanded the morning?" What would we know about how to run a universe, or about the issues and purposes that need to be considered by a being who can run a universe?

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Power Corrupts in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #42
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

[QUOTE]Originally written by Student of Trinity:
[qb]...
The problem with this proof is external to the proof itself and lies in the definition of "God":

Pretty much everyone agrees that the problem with the ontological proof is somewhere in its step from definition to reality. The hard part is explaining exactly what and where the problem is. Most people figure that Immanuel Kant came closest to it, but a lot of people find his explanation insufficiently clear.

As far as your explanation goes, Zeviz, the whole point of this 'proof' is that a definition is not an assumption. Anselm could just as well have said, "Consider the greatest possible being", without mentioning the term "God". It would then be a rather trivial observation that, "Hey! 'Greatest possible being' is pretty much what everyone normally calls 'God', isn't it?"

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Power Corrupts in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #18
Some say that God is not mocked, but even theology is much less mockable than one might think. Heck, the Ontological Proof had Bertrand Russell going, for a little while.

"By definition, God is the greatest of all possible beings. A non-existent being is clearly less great than one which exists. Therefore God must exist." (Anselm of Canterbury, 11th century).

It's hard to imagine who might actually be convinced by this argument; but major philosophers ever since Anselm have struggled to put their fingers precisely on what is wrong with it.

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Geneforge 4 spells in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #7
Eight new spells is a lot. There are already quite a pile of spells in G3. Are there really eight new things to do? Maybe some of the eight will replace existing ones, but have similar effects.

Unlock is good, and with it as a precedent for magical control over mechanical items, anti-mine and -trap magic seems quite plausible. Jeff has also said that he is trying to revamp mines and traps to make them more interesting. So I'm thinking that maybe several of the new spells will be trap-related.

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Geneforge without the Geneforge in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #0
The Geneforge world has a lot of interesting things going for it even apart from the major plot arc that drives the game series (Geneforge to Drakons to Rebellion to ?). I want to see what happens next, of course. But it would also be cool to have some looser, more open-ended games where you could just mess around as a Shaper -- maybe prequels, set in the good old days before Danette had her bright idea.

Explore a wild region and establish a Shaper colony. Develop a mine. Or exterminate a rogue Shaper, then become obsessed with his mad vision, take over his spooky lab, follow clues in his notes leading to quests for rare components, conjure some netherworld fiend, construct a horrific monstrosity, and terrorize the world.

Or anything else. We don't need geneforges to have a good time.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
A Few Advance Notes On Geneforge 4 in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #191
Thanks for the effort on that one post. Keep it up and you'll find these are fun and friendly boards. It's just that we use basic writing skills as a kind of spam filter: experience amply shows that people who can't or won't write clearly very rarely have any worthwhile ideas to contribute. So we mock them or ignore them.

Shouldn't we instead bend over backwards to decipher the postings of dyslexic newbies who won't take a few seconds to punctuate or spellcheck?

Maybe, but we don't. It's a harsh, cruel world out here on the internet. If the pedophiles don't get you, the grammar cops may. Sink or swim.

(Okay, that's my noob patrol duty done for the month. Tag, whoever's up next.)

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
A Change of Structure in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #119
Baa, humbug.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Changes for Sequel in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #13
There's always room for re-balancing, but on the other hand, it's not as though this is Starcraft, with infinite replayability in online multiplayer arenas. If Guardians are a bit harder than Agents, why is that a problem? If Glaahks are weak, maybe they're the price you pay for specializing in Magic Shaping (Gazers being the delayed reward).

I like Glaahks and Terror Vlish, too — don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that perfect balance isn't really the point, as long as things aren't ridiculously out of whack.

And, anyway, the way to freshen up the series after 3 installments is not just to tweak all the balances or give Rotdhizons a ranged acid attack. Jeff will need to make more significant changes than that — and it seems that he is making them. Those will probably mess up the balance again, anyway.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Puresteel Soul Blade? in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #5
quote:
Originally written by Nick Ringer:

I seem to recall there being a Puresteel Soulblade held by a Guardian-resembling specter somewhere in Benerii-Uss. It's the same area where you can talk the imprisoned gazers into attacking Akkat with you. Anyway, I got the gazers to smoke the crap out of him, he's to the north of their cell.
Really? There are a couple of non-soul Puresteel Blades in the game, I believe, but I thought there was only one way to get the PSB in G2. Can anyone confirm this report?

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
A Few Advance Notes On Geneforge 4 in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #176
sorry about not reading your long block of words you typed it fast and im busy. if you want people to read your words youll have to make the extra effort to include capitals punctuation and paragraph breaks otherwise they wont bother reading because it will be too much trouble for them and they are not getting paid to do this after all.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
A Change of Structure in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #116
It's not directly relevant to me at the moment, but:

"Nobleman" inhales. It's vague: any actual noble titles -- duke, count, even obscure ones like margrave -- would all sound much cooler. It has no good link to any Spiderweb games. And it's not gender neutral.

I'm not too thrilled with Royal Advisor either. Sure, technically it might be a powerful post; but who aspires to be a mere advisor to the real power? What kind of impressive, high-ranking title is that?

Keeping the Exile/Avernum theme, what's actually better than a Sage, as something that might or might not be on your side, and commands respect either way? A Vengeful Shade!

You have to admit, 'Vengeful Shade' rocks.

[ Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:47: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ]

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
US Conflict Avatars in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #99
Hey, if I don't get the avatar I want, I'm going to take my marbles and go home.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Power! in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #6
After using the Geneforge and clearing the Inner Crypt to pick up Danette's Belt, I figured my Agent was indestructible, so I tried going for a casual stroll back through the Inner Crypt before leaving for the mainland. 'Casual stroll' meant not staying in combat mode the whole time. I blew through the first few encounters, of course, but got overwhelmed surprisingly soon. Even the Geneforge doesn't truly beat the Inner Crypt.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Puresteel Soul Blade? in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #2
Which game? In G3, by the time you can get the PSB, you don't need the PSB, or anything else for that matter.

But you can also acquire a Puresteel Soulblade in G2, if you join the Takers and chat to the right creature. It comes at a price, and opinion is divided over whether the price is worthwhile, especially when you include the opportunity cost of not wielding the Guardian's Claymore. But you can decide for yourself.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
A Change of Structure in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #99
I repeat my proposal that Alorael be given the empty string as a title.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Descriptions in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #11
The laws of physics are fundamentally dimensionless, so the distinction between mass and length is almost as arbitrary as that between metres and yards. The natural conversion factor is that 1 metre equals approximately 1.35 x 10^27 kilograms.

So this guy's mass is about one and a half times that of the planet Jupiter. I hope he's not a close friend.

[ Tuesday, April 18, 2006 09:06: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ]

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Where is Icshi? in Richard White Games
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #0
It's been a while, and the place just isn't the same.

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 38 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=QCBMCCUllexW"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=QCBMCCUllexW"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window IMAGE(votenow.gif)     IMAGE(voteresults.gif)

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
US Conflict Avatars in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #52
Okay. Uh. Look.

I'll try to live up to whatever obligation I've taken on by selecting the Revolution as my 'US Conflict Avatar', if any. But if there is any, I'll have to be filled in on what it is. I rather thought we were just contributing snide reflections on the fact that the US of A has crammed a fair amount of violence into its relatively short history. If there's any more to it than that, I need a short review.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Happy Easter To All! in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #32
The Easter Bunny stocking up?

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
US Conflict Avatars in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #46
I take the American Revolution, in which thirteen colonies rebelled against their rightful king, shed blood to cut taxes, and called it all patriotism.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
I Guess I Just Don't Get It in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #20
I found it was pretty good after I looted Rahul's bedroom, but I'm not sure I can say I was a god until much later. I was playing on Torment, but perhaps more importantly, I shot myself in the foot with my initial skill distribution. Remembering how great Parry was for Guardians in G2, I poured everything into it, only to discover that in G3 it had been nerfed pretty well. Actually I think it's better now -- it's a good skill in G3, and it almost broke the game in G2. But I was a long time building up my Strength and Endurance to decent levels after that initial mistake. Plus I was role-playing an extreme loyalist, so I only brought Alwan with me -- and Alwan has a high negative pressure. With Greta, things would have been much easier.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Are FRPGs inherently gerontocratic? in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #19
I guess any powerful item had better be difficult to make. (Though the alternative of easy power suddenly becoming available also has mythology of a sort. "God didn't create men equal: Samuel Colt did.") But the task of uncovering enough ancient lore to find or activate an ancient artifact actually seems a lot more doable than the task of constructing one from scratch. More to the point, a reader can follow the process of digging up ancient scrolls and unravelling old riddles. Making a story about that sort of thing interesting, while avoiding deus ex machina, is almost a standard process.

Making a story about a major new invention is a lot harder. You'd have to give the reader some idea of how it works, yet make it seem impressively difficult to understand, without resorting to mumbo-jumbo that just sounds arbitrary. That is, the constraints that make the invention difficult have to be convincing, but so does the trick that makes the invention work. And that's probably really hard. In reality you can't seem to maintain both conditions; the transition from impossible to trivial is quick. Most revolutionary inventions of real history seem obvious enough in hindsight that if we met them in fiction, we'd never believe people didn't see them before.

But why wouldn't we believe that? Isn't it just because we can't believe that the wonderful folk of the past could really have been as dumb as us today? Hmmm.

How many successful attempts at invention fantasies are there? Actually, I think Geneforge is a good one. So perhaps is Newton's Cannon, though its sequels degenerate miserably. Interestingly, both these examples use the same device, of making the creative trick seem convincing by making it analogous to scientific insights that readers know from the real world, but which are completely novel in the fictional world. So the reader's reaction, when the rabbit is pulled out of the hat, is to say, "Wow! Of course!", instead of, "Where the hell did that come from?". Pretty clever, that. Too bad it will only work until we run out of familiar science.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Thieve's World in General
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #6
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

(This was just a vacuum fluctuation, I wasn't really here.)
Good link, actually.

I read a few of the early Thieves' World books, and liked them, but I guess I must have agreed that the series went downhill, because I stopped following at some point. I think TW was the first of the 'shared world' series that became a sort of fashion for a while in the late 80's and early 90's. The other one that I remember best is Merovingen Nights, presided over by C.J. Cherryh. It wandered a fair bit in the middle, but it's the only example in Cherryh's work where her typical sudden, violent ending actually makes sense. Apparently it takes her twenty volumes to reach a real climax, as opposed to the fake ones that wrap up her shorter series.

[ Friday, April 14, 2006 21:26: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ]

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
The Sequel in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #16
There has to be enough exposition for new customers who start playing with Geneforge 4. So the only alternatives I see are for our characters to be neophytes who have to learn, or instructors who have to teach. But it might be a tad weird for a player new to the game to get a dialog option to reel off an explanation of canisters. Is it worse to have your character know much less than you, or much more?

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
A Few Advance Notes On Geneforge 4 in Geneforge Series
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #167
The Wornks have finally convinced me. There has been an Easter egg 'Create Ornk' canister in every Geneforge game. The next one should also give you Create Ornk, but once you have it, there should be possibilities (possibly activated by a cheat code) to upgrade this to Pack Ornk and War Ornk. And a War Ornk should be a joke creation that is far stronger than anything else in the game.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00

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