The Sequel

AuthorTopic: The Sequel
Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
Profile #0
We need more polls around here. You know what to do.

*The asterisk-adorned choices indicate that you can't say no, but these pretty much burn up development time. May make the game more expensive, or something. Consider this.

[ Sunday, April 09, 2006 01:01: Message edited by: Nick Ringer ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 24 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=bDusvNvDrsWO"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=bDusvNvDrsWO"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window IMAGE(votenow.gif)     IMAGE(voteresults.gif)

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One of these words is mispelled.
Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #1
Hmm.

Well, most of those things would be nice, and we could always use a new plot twist. But it won't happen (realistically), so...

- Archmagus Micael

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"You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage
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My Scenarios:
Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong?
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Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website).
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Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
Profile #2
Do you think anyone will choose "I do not want to be able to shape?" Shaping is the hallmark of the Geneforge series; you take away shaping, you're left with an Avernum that has a few quirks.

As for everything else I checked that I can remember:

New Spells: He should keep taking from Exile. Multitarget spells would be nice. So would summoning.

New Creations: A must. Probably the aforementioned Sea Drayk and maybe a creation that splits in two when you kill it, like a Doomguard.

Another thing that would be cool (but isn't going to happen) would be creation melding. You could blend an artila with a fyora for an essence cost and have a fire-and-acid spitting snake. Or blend a drayk with a battle alpha and you get a huge, two-legged reptilian fire-breathing monster (sort of like a Drakon actually)

Sholai: I think that they should be another faction. Maybe the Sholai look down on the warring peoples of Terrestia and decide that shaping caused it all. They try to wipe out all shaping with advanced magic or something. It would be interesting to lead raids on shaping halls and fight both the rebels and shapers as they battle.

New Factions: I think that four factions is a perfectly reasonable number. Sholai, Rebels, Loyalists, and Awakened. The Awakened need to come back again. Period.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Agent
Member # 5814
Profile #3
Different starting areas would be cool and not that hard to do.

Let's see, a type of new creation... Well, being able to Shape Serviles would be interesting as long as I can give them weapons. Maybe Fire Creations could get some sort of heavy melee creature that explodes, like a useful Pyroroamer. And Magic Creations could get a creature that charms its enemies. The Battle Creations could get some sort of slow-moving seige engine late in the game.

I want a Light spell, yo. And possibly some sort of Healing spell that drains HP from my allies. I enjoy kicking the dog. Maybe some sort of spell that chains damage around, like Lightning Chain in W3.

The Sholai should definitely be in G4. Jeff set himself up for a good, interesting plot when he needed a villain in G1. I haven't played G2, but I don't recall there being much Sholai action. So the Sholai are unused, while they should be the main players.

I just wish that for once Jeff wouldn't stick in three or so mines. It gets kind of old after a while.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon
Well, I'm at least pretty

Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #4
No, the Sholai don't appear in G2 at all. (Edit: They are mentioned by name in dialogue twice, but that's it.) For G2's setting and plot, that was acceptable. However, the one Sholai thrown into G3 didn't seem as acceptable. (I haven't actually played past the demo of G3, but I did read through all the scripts.)

Dikiyoba wouldn't mind being a Sholai rather than a Shaper in G4.

[ Sunday, April 09, 2006 09:20: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ]
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #5
The poll is missing the main complaint about the Geneforge series so far:

I don't want to play yet another shaper apprentice, who has to deal with the changing world around him. There are many other options:

- a high ranking Shaper or Rebel agent, who is having doubts about his missions

- a human warrior/mage who lives in a town that ends up on a front line

- a member of the Awakened, ready to come out of their hiding place

Playing Shloai might pose the same problem as playing yet another Shaper apprentice: the loss of immersion due to disconnect between IC and OOC knowledge. The player already knows all about canisters, servile factions, etc. So when the character is surprized by these things it breaks the connection between player and character.

As for the technical aspects of the game listed in your poll, I think the game is good enough already. Sure, more spells, more creations, more technical toys like day/night cycle, etc. are always good, but they are not going to have much impact on my decision whether to buy Geneforge 4.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #6
I'm still working through GF1, but I would like more multiple target or area effect spells than searing orbs. Having to haste just to have a real chance versus multiple monsters is a bother. I've been using crystals for a second spell attack and trying to use speed pods to keep from getting swarmed. I usually am out of spray crystals when I face 3 or more attackers.

I haven't shaped yet, but it should always be an option. Maybe leave it to the middle of the game so you develope other skills first.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
Profile #7
I couldn't possibly have thought of everything ... although I expected complaint/ridicule based on the "I do not want to be able to Shape" it was my subtle way of reminding voters that Jeff had specifically announced (Zeviz!) the fact that the PC would not be a Shaper. Also I was going for completeness. No, I did not actually expect anyone to select it.

Wonko: can you clarify what you meant about spells? I've never played Exile. I too would like to see more multitarget spells, perhaps some that aren't too expensive -- but I guess that's what spray/swarm crystals are for. And what is summoning?

The Sholai should have their own faction though, for sure. Although they didn't seem very magical; Geneforge gave the impression that they were sailors and tradesmen (though there were a couple mages in there), and Shapers would have a better grasp of magic and stuff than ousiders. Unless, since the expedition to Sucia (which seems to have occurred quite a few years ago), the Sholai have come upon new powers: it's possible the conspirators against Trajkov (hidden in the valley north of Pentil and the caves around Kazg) returned to Sholai lands.

I think the Awakened were too peaceful and, despite their newly gained powers in Geneforge 2, seem to have been eradicated or scattered into the mountains. Their nonagression just didn't cut it with the oppressive Shapers and crazy Drakons.

I want more side quests. Little ones, like the Servile in Icy End who wants a piece of cake. That damn near made me cry.

Something I really liked in Geneforge 3 was the ability to command troops (Dhonal's Isle). It wasn't terribly interactive, but having "commanding" conversation options in Geneforge 4 would be really nice ... for example "I'll go east with the creations. You take the troops north."

I would want the ability to equip creations. How often do slain Battle Alphas drop Chitin Armor? I think humanoid creations should be able to wear armor. Servile/Human NPC's (Alwan, Greta) should equip just like the PC, weapons and all. I heard someone mention doggy sweaters for Roamers a while back ...

How about a headgear slot? I thought "pants" were an okay addition to the arsenal. Shouldn't you get a "Blessed Beanie" or a "Shaped Helmet?" The Guardian graphic wears a helmet, anyway. As far as hands, maybe you can wield two weapons (as opposed to right hand weapon, left hand shield).

That 30,000 coin limit kind of bothers me. Perhaps you can acquire a bigger purse/wallet/sack? Maybe there should be a bank? Also, why can't I haggle over prices? Leadership should affect trading ...

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One of these words is mispelled.
Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00
Agent
Member # 4574
Profile #8
Regarding Shaping:
When Jeff said that you wouldn't be a Shaper I'm sure he meant loyalist. Even if he didn't he also said that all of that was subject to change.
Regarding Awakened:
That is exactly what I've been saying! It's a god damn war, the Awakened are going to have to stop being so passive.
Regarding Money Limits:
If you want to take things realisticly think that your carrying around 30,000 coins like carrying around a feather. Plus computers have limits, duh.

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Pass the sauerkraut and chips please.
Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #9
It would be nice to play someone in the middle, on neither side.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #10
quote:
Originally written by Nick Ringer:

I couldn't possibly have thought of everything ... although I expected complaint/ridicule based on the "I do not want to be able to Shape" it was my subtle way of reminding voters that Jeff had specifically announced (Zeviz!) the fact that the PC would not be a Shaper. Also I was going for completeness. No, I did not actually expect anyone to select it.
...

I guess I wasn't very clear in my post. The main idea is that I want a character that knows as much as I do about the world of Geneforge. Some people talked about playing as Shloai, but that has a potential to be as bad as playing a Shaper apprentice:

My Character: I wonder what that glowing thing is.
Me: It's a skill canister, idiot.
* My Character touches the canister. *
My Character: Wow, I wonder where that power came from.
Me: Genetic engineering.

My Character: Wow, these serviles are unusually intelligent.
Me: Yes, they are called Taker, they originated in Kazg on Sulica island, etc, etc.

My character: I wonder who is behind these monster plagues.
Me: Rentar-Ihrno. Sorry, wrong game. I meant to say "a bunch of power-hungry Drakons and/or canister-crazed Shapers".

Conversations like the ones above tend to ruin the immersion, which had usually been one of the best atributes of Spidweb games. I wouldn't have a problem playing a high-ranking Shaper (in fact, a top agent, who is beginning to question his missions would be quite fun), as long as that Shaper knows as much as I do about the Geneforge world.

[ Sunday, April 09, 2006 21:12: Message edited by: Zeviz ]

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
Profile #11
quote:
Originally written by Nick Ringer:

Wonko: can you clarify what you meant about spells? I've never played Exile. I too would like to see more multitarget spells, perhaps some that aren't too expensive -- but I guess that's what spray/swarm crystals are for. And what is summoning?
You seriously don't know what summoning is? You've never played Avernum or Exile or Nethergate?
Boy, you're missing a lot. In any case, summoning spells summon creatures to fight for you that disappear after a limited time. They're usually not that useful, but they're fun.
Jeff could even have an option when shaping something to make it disappear after a short time, like those fading creations that defended the spawners on Harmony Isle. Making a fading creation would be cheaper.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
Profile #12
I see.

That sounds nice. Since J.V. introduced "fading" creations in Geneforge 3, it would be reasonable to include them in the sequel. You can, perhaps, make tougher creations than you normally could; since they fade away, you don't have to maintain them.

JVFC: you bring up an interesting point. Let me dig up what he actually said:
quote:
Originally written by Spidweb:

Since the end of Geneforge 3, the rebellion against the Shapers has begun. You will play rebels, not Shapers, though you will develop shaping abilities early in the game. Without shaping, it's not Geneforge.

At this point, your character can be a human or a servile. There will be three character classes that take the role of Shaper/Agent/Guardian. I really like how that set works.

The skill list will stay the same, most likely, as I think it works very well. There will probably be 3 new creations and 8 new spells.

There will be three overall factions/sets of endings, but one of them is more hidden than the others.

A number of characters from Geneforge 3 will return.

I want the game to have many more scripted events and big battles. It's a war, and I want you to be mixed up in it.

I've never been entirely happy with how mines and traps work, so I'm tinkering with that. I want to find a way for Tool Use heavy zones to be a more fun experience.

I want to rework stealth so it's clearer what's going on and when a creature can see you.

He says that "your character can be a human or a servile," which indicates that you wouldn't be a Shaper. However -- and this is kind of splitting hairs -- so-called "Shapers" are really humans who have been named so by joining the sect. He could mean anything.

Also, Jeffers indicated that we will be able to shape. So there goes my one entry in the poll. Doesn't mean I can't write it.

He shoots down some of my other ideas in that post, and confirms my desire to fight in big battles.

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One of these words is mispelled.
Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #13
Originally by Zeviz:

quote:
My Character: I wonder what that glowing thing is.
Me: It's a skill canister, idiot.
* My Character touches the canister. *
My Character: Wow, I wonder where that power came from.
Me: Genetic engineering.

My Character: Wow, these serviles are unusually intelligent.
Me: Yes, they are called Taker, they originated in Kazg on Sulica island, etc, etc.

My character: I wonder who is behind these monster plagues.
Me: Rentar-Ihrno. Sorry, wrong game. I meant to say "a bunch of power-hungry Drakons and/or canister-crazed Shapers".
Hmm. Dikiyoba's conversations tend to go like this:

Diki's character: What is that? Whatever it is, I want it!
Dikiyoba: Oh look. Another canister. No, you may not use it yet. If you do, you will not be able to train in it later. It's all about raising stats to ridiculous levels.
Diki's character: It is? But I thought I was a loyalist, not a Barzite.
Dikiyoba: You're unaligned so that you can trade and train with as many people as possible.
Diki's character: Okay.
Dikiyoba: Hey! There's a robe on the ground! It's worth two coins! Get it! Get it!
Diki's character: Wow. Only one hundred more of these robes and I can buy a new spell!


Edit: Extended script.

[ Monday, April 10, 2006 08:23: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ]
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5754
Profile #14
The Awakened could be in. There's more than one way to win a war. They sit could on the sidelines keeping the war going whatever possible way and when both sides are weak come in and force peace.
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 716
Profile #15
The main thing I didn't like about Geneforge 3 was having to be a Loyalist who thought that basicly they are god or a Rebel who was into destroying everything.

What about the people in between who just want to get on with their lives? I like a middle ground and didn't agree with either side.

As for the other some more spells for multiple targets would be great.
Posts: 53 | Registered: Wednesday, March 6 2002 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #16
There has to be enough exposition for new customers who start playing with Geneforge 4. So the only alternatives I see are for our characters to be neophytes who have to learn, or instructors who have to teach. But it might be a tad weird for a player new to the game to get a dialog option to reel off an explanation of canisters. Is it worse to have your character know much less than you, or much more?

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #17
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

... Is it worse to have your character know much less than you, or much more?
I'd say that knowing less is far worse, because in most cases character already knows at least a little more and there is a standard way of dealing with this:

"You haven't talked to Alwan much, because he is in another grade, but you know that he is one of the top students and always exibited examplary behavior..." is a much more natural way to cover gap between player and character knowledge than:

Narrator: "Serviles are supposed to be dumb and you are extremely surprized to find one that appears to be intelligent."
Character: "Wow. An intelligent servile!"
Player: "Surprized?! I've just played two whole games of interacting with intelligent serviles."

A better way to handle above situation would be:
Narrator: "You finally see one of the intelligent serviles you've heard so much about. He looks just like a regular one, but you remember from your briefing that these creatures posess dangerous cunning and intelligence."

Things that character knows and player doesn't are parts of the game world that can be wowen into the story. Things that player knows and character doesn't are things that he has to forget in order to connect with the character. And in all RPs, the less disconnect there is between IC and OOC knowledge, the easier it is to enjoy the game.

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6754
Profile #18
... speaking of which, I always found it odd that Alwan calls you "Shaper." He was supposed to be closer to becoming one than you ...

I sort of like my character not knowing what I do. But I'm weird that way; I can see where other people don't.

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One of these words is mispelled.
Posts: 284 | Registered: Tuesday, January 31 2006 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2245
Profile Homepage #19
quote:
I guess I wasn't very clear in my post. The main idea is that I want a character that knows as much as I do about the world of Geneforge. Some people talked about playing as Shloai, but that has a potential to be as bad as playing a Shaper apprentice:

My Character: I wonder what that glowing thing is.
Me: It's a skill canister, idiot.
* My Character touches the canister. *
My Character: Wow, I wonder where that power came from.
Me: Genetic engineering.

My Character: Wow, these serviles are unusually intelligent.
Me: Yes, they are called Taker, they originated in Kazg on Sulica island, etc, etc.

My character: I wonder who is behind these monster plagues.
Me: Rentar-Ihrno. Sorry, wrong game. I meant to say "a bunch of power-hungry Drakons and/or canister-crazed Shapers".

Conversations like the ones above tend to ruin the immersion,

What about this one? It's a parody of Futurama... in case anyone is confused.

Jeff narrating: "You're entering a realm which is unusual. Maybe it's magic or contains some kind of mutated creation. The second one. Prepare to enter ... The Scary Geneforge.

Please send a bunch of meddling imbeciles round back to show an unusual interest in *Char_Name*, a Shaper apprentice with little skill or intelligence who's about to have an unfortunate accident.

Char_Name: "Oh no! Disaster just occurred, but I conveniently have remained unharmed. However, I now need to change my underwear *sigh*.

Char_Name: What's this? Power word 'Reload' to ensure my success, despite my lack of skill or competence? I must be in Avernum!
Huh? I'm an ugly SoB, and am actually longing for the graphics of Exile 1? I must really be ... in hell, erm, I mean, Geneforge!

[A drakon appears at his side.]

Drakon: No, *Char_Name*. You're not in heaven or hell. You just being approached by a bunch of rebels, who will most likely persuade you to their cause, despite the years of systematic brainwashing and propaganda that you have been subjected to in Shaper society. But don't worry, the outcome of 'Join the Rebels' scenario and 'Join the Shapers' scenario is essentially identical, so you won't miss out on much, no matter your choice.

*Charname in hall of Shaper Council *

*Char_Name*: There's a drakon building a Geneforge! You've gotta believe me!

Shaper council: Why should we believe you? You're Rentar Ihnro!

[He holds up a mirror and *Char_name* sees the reflection of Rentar Inhro.]

Char_Name: No! My loyal creations, please help me!

Drayk: You forgot to give us the minimum requirement of 2 intelligent points, n00b. We're on strike.

Avid Spiderweb fan: Saw it comin'!

[ Saturday, April 15, 2006 21:10: Message edited by: Waylander ]

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VIVE LA TAKERS!
VIVE LA REBELLION!
VIVE LA GHALDRING!
Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00