Profile for Arancaytar

Error message

Deprecated function: implode(): Passing glue string after array is deprecated. Swap the parameters in drupal_get_feeds() (line 394 of /var/www/pied-piper.ermarian.net/includes/common.inc).

Recent posts

Pages

AuthorRecent posts
Spiderweb Software - One Year On in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #28
Some things are too dreadful to contemplate.

Edit: Post 1984 rocks, especially in a world where the book seems more and more applicable every day...

[ Saturday, October 02, 2004 15:38: Message edited by: Also rather a nutcase. ]

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Spiderweb Software - One Year On in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #25
Also, he spammed his way to account 4000 already.

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Spiderweb Software - One Year On in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #23
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

That's a lie, RC.
Is RC Mark Jibollik? :eek:

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Editor? in Blades of Avernum
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #3
Windows Editor

Mac Editor

I had trouble finding it as well when I downloaded the game. The link should perhaps be on the BoA game page as well as the scenario workshop...

[ Friday, October 01, 2004 16:40: Message edited by: Also rather a nutcase. ]

--------------------
Encyclopaedia ErmarianaForum ArchivesForum StatisticsRSS [Topic / Forum]
My BlogPolarisI eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
How to raise money? in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #37
150+% IQ? Why do you still post here? I'm so dumb I've only 135, and even I wonder why I spend so much time on this board!

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Avernum 4 in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #50
Y'know, from the "It's His Property" angle, and justifying it financially, a lot of things are possible to justify, as has been discussed in 2 (two) threads this week already.

Why should Jeff fix any bug at all? Once a game's bought, it's bought! Suing someone over 30$, especially from abroad, costs much more than it would benefit. Why should Jeff give his designer community any support? Those are HIS games, you know, not theirs. Plus, it's cheaper to make money of all those 8-year-olds and septugenarian eskimos than fix some obscure shortcoming of an outdated engine. [/sarcasm].

I don't hold Harry Potter and the Chronicles of Narnia proofs of the contrary. They rather prove the point itself. Harry Potter would have been better off either as one trilogy, or as an ongoing series like Starwars (and I would never have read it in that case). As it is, seven books are too much to form together as an arcing, gripping plot. Things repeat; you can stop after any one book and never feel as if you have to read the next (try that with Lord of the Rings). And I don't want to discuss Narnia now... :rolleyes:

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Spiderweb Software - One Year On in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #3
Ha! I've been here for 1 1/3 years! :D

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Jeff's rep and the Perils of Creating a Scenario Editor in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #30
quote:
take a look at how much better JV's support for BoA already is than his support for BoE was
Were you here when BoE came out? Were you involved in the early designer community, or did you ever seek Jeff's support on the game at that time?

If not: How would you or I know how good Spiderweb support was for BoE in the year after it came out? How could we assume how good support for BoA will be when it will be as old as BoE is now - and when Blades of Geneforge is the 'sparkling new engine' just out? :P

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Avernum 4 in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #21
Even if history becomes a muddle, here's to hoping that it will remain at two alternative histories. Assuming that Jeff will make one canon worldline, and those who don't follow it instead follow the fan-established one.

The thing to fear, of course, is that with Jeff bringing out his own canon information, some designers might turn this into a free-for-all and we have dozens of different versions.

But that remains to be seen.

Whatever happens, it's sure to give me more work for my encyclopedia, so I'm kind of eager to see it. :D

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"Really, Spiderweb is just a big, steaming pool of estrogen." --- Robin
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Avernum 4 in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #19
I meant 'potentially'. Nethergate is about powerful Romans discovering and conquering Britain, and about a conflict of worldly power (Romans) and magic (Celts and Elves, etc). The same themes and issues arise in Ermarian about Valorim, the Anama, magic being outlawed, etc.

GF is about all-powerful wizards creating living beings, who then develop an own will and rebel. If you look at Vahnatai creationism theories, it's much the same: Vahnatai make humans/troglos/etc., and have to leave the surface.

(Admittedly, that last example loses all value as an argument if Drakefyre developed Vahnatai Creationism after Geneforge came out.)

Anyway, the plot for both of these games could have been easily drawn into an Ermarian-based setting as well; that is what I'm getting at.

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"Really, Spiderweb is just a big, steaming pool of estrogen." --- Robin
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Avernum 4 in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #16
I don't see what the pessimism is all about. Of *course* it will conflict most horribly with everything that has been established by fans so far. I'm convinced there will in fact turn out to be six continents, none of which is Doston, Erika and Rentar-Ihrno are resurrected and become friends, and the name of the world turns out to be not Ermarian, but anything else that does not remotely sound the same. And guess Jeff's likely reaction to someone telling him about such a conflict.

Why so pessimistic? We know the way it's going to turn out anyway. :rolleyes:

------------------------------------------------

Edit: Of course, in order to not be unilaterally negative; you know what I'd like to see done with this world? Some exploration of background, not the same setting over and over. What 'Jeff-stuff' do we know of Vantanas except for the name? What of Pralgrad and Aizo? It is like he made up those continents to make his world deeper, but he never even remotely developed them, not even on a map (that was done by the arena, iirc).

If he ever went to the trouble of making a scenario set, for instance, before Avernum and in the time of Hawthorne II, or the time of the abandoning of Skylark Vale's school of magery, or the discovery of Vantanas... I'd pay anything for a game like that, and I'm convinced so would a lot of people.

Jeff seems to me like a piano player who only uses one range of keys over and over and over. If he makes anything new, he gets himself a new piano, like NG and Geneforge. But why not set other plots in Ermarian? It's all there, the conflict of magic and church, the conflict of magic and non-magical emperors, exploration of new continents, settling, founding of empires, treason, wars, Vahnatai creations turning against them, everything. There's Nethergate and Geneforge in Ermarian, and much more.

Instead Jeff chooses to run with what he had all the time. Cave. Escape to surface. Take revenge on surface. Defeat surface. Make peace with surface. Everything else set in the world is pitifully small, being a scenario. A small school of magery, a minor bandit lair, a Slith war and so on. I don't think it's only for the plot that A Small Rebellion is counted as the best of Jeff's scenarios. It's because for once, he actually sits down and develops his world, a large chunk of its geography, its history and its politics.

Why not do that again? :)

[ Monday, September 27, 2004 20:06: Message edited by: Also rather a nutcase. ]

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"Really, Spiderweb is just a big, steaming pool of estrogen." --- Robin
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Non-SW game recommendations in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #37
Beware of people who use more than 3 emoticons in a row for little apparent reason, especially concerning game reccomendations. It is not unlikely that the emoticons are a direct result of their gaming habits, if you get what I mean. :P

Edit: Just to clarify, this is not meant as an argument against any of the games suggested above. I was merely making fun of the Emoticons. I'd have probably said the same if he were suggesting Blades of Exile and EV Nova.

[ Monday, September 27, 2004 11:15: Message edited by: Also rather a nutcase. ]

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Non-SW game recommendations in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #32
EV Nova, yes, absolutely. It's the absolutely best Space simulation I've ever seen up to now (bar perhaps Mankind, but I don't like Real-Time MMORPGs as a rule).

The EV trial trial version is massive. Unlike other such games it manages to retain a deep plot in spite of its stunning graphics. Get it. :)

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Non-SW game recommendations in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #30
If it doesn't have to be Real Time (and assuming you can get an internet connection there), a rather nice online strategy simulation is Hyperiums (www.hyperiums.com). It doesn't have any graphics whatsoever (apart from applet-generated maps) and works in 'ticks', that is, combat, movement etc. are calculated every two hours or so. It's rather poor in detail, but once you get involved in an alliance, the game may become pretty interesting.
Free accounts are limited, and full membership costs 1$ a month, but many players will sell you time credits for game cash.

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Philosophical Implementation in Blades of Avernum
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #22
I didn't mind the philosophical part in any of the scenarios - hell, it's a pleasant sort of relief to be able to see it at first glance rather than having to fish for the symbolism and allegory for hours on end when reading a book. I get that enough when analyzing novels in school. What I didn't like was the total inability to choose. Especially noticeable in Roses of Reckoning (nice Great Gatsby cameos, btw). Okay, the vampires were probably evil, but who cares about it? Let the corrupt town die, right? Given a choice, I'd have simply left the story at that point. :P

--------------------
Encyclopaedia ErmarianaForum ArchivesForum StatisticsRSS [Topic / Forum]
My BlogPolarisI eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
How to raise money? in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #4
I've heard rumors about people actually doing that and succeeding. Might be urban myths though. The thing about it is that anyone who *does* fall for it will see little point in suing, because the legal support and fees would cost a hundred times that. :P And you know people still fall for Nigerian scams, no matter how widely known they are and how badly they're done...

Next idea: Get a dead donkey. Set up a raffle for 2$ tickets, with the donkey being the first prize. Sell 100 tickets. Then find the one guy who won, and tell him "Sorry, I'm afraid the donkey has died. Here are your 2§ back." :P

Edit: Seriously though, I don't know what the laws in the US exactly are on underage employment, but over here I've been able to mow my Grandma's lawn and stuff for some extra pocket money (at 15); it wouldn't have been much of an issue to do that for other people I know in the neighborhood as well. It'll probably just be real jobs you can't take.

[ Sunday, September 19, 2004 18:57: Message edited by: Also rather a nutcase. ]

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperment, and his superior intellect." --- ben
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Philosophical Implementation in Blades of Avernum
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #9
The thing is, to push a view point, the maker doesn't even have to be aware of doing it, or intending it. I was halfway through a plot draft for a scenario based on the Anama War when I realized the finished product, following this plan, was going to look like an allegorical, outright and obvious attack on Fundamentalism. I haven't yet started designing, because I want to get this out of the way first. I would hate to think of a work I complete as allegorical, or with any purpose beyond producing something for entertainment.

--------------------
Encyclopaedia ErmarianaForum ArchivesForum StatisticsRSS [Topic / Forum]
My BlogPolarisI eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Philosophical Implementation in Blades of Avernum
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #2
When you make a scenario that is not a shallow hack-only action thing, it seems quite easy to make the plot allegorical. Of course, anything with a plot contains a theme, and a message to the audience, just like literature.

I can't think of any reason why scenarios tend to make this message less subtle than books, but I suppose it is all a matter of skill (not technical designing skill, but plot design). Perhaps the fact that everything you put into a scenario is experienced directly by the player, while you can just 'overlook' key passages in a book, makes such things rise to the surface more easily.

All of TM's BoA works I've played (I haven't played many others yet, that is, many others that were worthwhile) have had a viewpoint to push. The views aren't radical in a way that I can't identify with any of them, but I don't like someone's moral ethics and opinions rubbed into my face when playing/reading something. :P

--------------------
Encyclopaedia ErmarianaForum ArchivesForum StatisticsRSS [Topic / Forum]
My BlogPolarisI eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
POV Ray Graphics in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #1
I have had my difficulties understanding the principles behind Jeff's marketing policies before, but I don't think this will happen. The costs for producing graphics are fixed. No matter how many people buy it, he pays the same to actually produce the graphics. Spidweb doesn't have a sufficiently large audience to make that investment profitable, I'm certain.

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperment, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Xian Living tool in Geneforge Series
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #16
You can get the Xian portable battery from Trajkoff, but only if you first remembered (every time you enter an area, within ten moves of entering it) to create a fyora, absorb it, create a Thahd, absorb it, *then* create an ornk and keep it alive until you reach the end of the area, then absorb it. If you entered a single map without doing this, you have lost the chance and have to start a new game.
Once you have the Xian battery, you need to recharge it with a special ability canister. There is only one canister that can recharge the battery, it's the one in the first map, that gives you Firebolt. I hope you didn't use it, because you have to reload otherwise.
To recharge the battery from the canister, plug it into the Xian cable that you can find in the cellar of Learned Pinner's house. In the cellar, you will need to evade the Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Serviles (GIFTS for short), because they will make your life miserable and may take the battery from you. In the southeast corner of the cellar, there's the cable, but it's plugged into an alarm that alerts the entire Awakened village. So once you take the cable, prepare to run as soon as you go up, because the Awakened are going to come after you.

Quickly return to the canister, plug the cable into the battery, smash the canister with the other end of the cable and hold the plug inside the essence until it's all evaporated. Take care not to touch the battery while that's happening though, because it'd give you an electric shock.

Congrats, you have now gotten a fully charged Xian battery, which you can use to activate the portal and escape to Fort Emergence! Way to go! :)

--------------------
Encyclopaedia ErmarianaForum ArchivesForum StatisticsRSS [Topic / Forum]
My BlogPolarisI eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Xian Living tool in Geneforge 2
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #16
You can get the Xian portable battery from Trajkoff, but only if you first remembered (every time you enter an area, within ten moves of entering it) to create a fyora, absorb it, create a Thahd, absorb it, *then* create an ornk and keep it alive until you reach the end of the area, then absorb it. If you entered a single map without doing this, you have lost the chance and have to start a new game.
Once you have the Xian battery, you need to recharge it with a special ability canister. There is only one canister that can recharge the battery, it's the one in the first map, that gives you Firebolt. I hope you didn't use it, because you have to reload otherwise.
To recharge the battery from the canister, plug it into the Xian cable that you can find in the cellar of Learned Pinner's house. In the cellar, you will need to evade the Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Serviles (GIFTS for short), because they will make your life miserable and may take the battery from you. In the southeast corner of the cellar, there's the cable, but it's plugged into an alarm that alerts the entire Awakened village. So once you take the cable, prepare to run as soon as you go up, because the Awakened are going to come after you.

Quickly return to the canister, plug the cable into the battery, smash the canister with the other end of the cable and hold the plug inside the essence until it's all evaporated. Take care not to touch the battery while that's happening though, because it'd give you an electric shock.

Congrats, you have now gotten a fully charged Xian battery, which you can use to activate the portal and escape to Fort Emergence! Way to go! :)

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Sigh. in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #10
quote:
Originally written by Imban:

Blame the brevity of my reply on my not having an actual computer of my own at the time. Still, I would have locked the topic anyway.
TYRANNY!

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Sigh. in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #6
Mind, don't let the flames get to you. They do nothing but prove your point.

The administration isn't being tyrannical, it's only reacting to the increasing population of idiots, both newbies and oldbies. I thought this place was ruled too strictly a year ago, but after seeing what kind of stuff goes on here, and visiting Desperance, I shudder to think what would happen without the strictness.

FBM: Agreed, except that this ship is sorta like the Titanic compared to the two-man lifeboats that most of the alternative forums are. Bluntly speaking, if this goes down, a ton of people will leave without ever turning back, or giving thought to switching to the other boards.

[ Friday, September 17, 2004 08:46: Message edited by: Also rather a nutcase. ]

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
How Low Can You Go? Yet another 'I'm Back' topic... in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #55
quote:
Originally written by ef:

quote:
Now that we have to use Euro instead of D-Mark they are all gone.
And that damn money even looks artificial.

Even though money *is* artificial from the start, isn't it? Of course we all wish it could grow from trees. :D

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
How Low Can You Go? Yet another 'I'm Back' topic... in General
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #37
Curiously enough, in a fantasy story or roleplay I'll often use other things than the metric system. Imperial sometimes, but occasionally totally made-up measures. It seems to give a more authentic tone to a fantasy setting for some reason.

--------------------
The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperment, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00

Pages