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Chat Update in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Friday, March 10 2006 11:20 Profile Homepage #59
Slarty pleads the fifth.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
If you had to pick... in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Friday, March 10 2006 11:08 Profile Homepage #48
Ferchrissakes, just sleep with each other and get it over already!
:cool:

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Chat Update in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Friday, March 10 2006 08:10 Profile Homepage #48
I do wonder just what these chats would be like if you were a part of them, Thralni.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Chat Update in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Thursday, March 9 2006 23:29 Profile Homepage #42
These chats will be the death of us all.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Worm Ouroboros in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Thursday, March 9 2006 13:24 Profile Homepage #3
Who else would you consider the genre's founders, OOC?

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
And Finally... in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Thursday, March 9 2006 12:45 Profile Homepage #13
It looks like he just hasn't played any of the Exile trilogy, and prefers the Avernum engine. He did put BoA at #2.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Next Game/Series in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Thursday, March 9 2006 10:22 Profile Homepage #30
Wow. That article sounded rather... jaded and bitter. Eesh.

Here's the thing. Jeff has two game worlds which have been extremely successful for him. Wildly, fantastically successful, by indie game developer standards.

There are people who play both and will download anything he makes. There are also plenty of people who are just Avernum fans, or just Geneforge fans. If there's a new Avernum game every year and a half, he'll hold onto a lot more of those particular fans than if there's a new Avernum game every three years. Same thing for Geneforge.

Given that he works alone and isn't about to abandon either Mac or PC, that means that if he wants to create an entirely new game, he does it at the risk of permanently and drastically decreasing the momentum of one of the established series.

Therefore, I suspect we will probably see a new series when the fan base of either Avernum or Geneforge starts to decline. And keep in mind that the VAST MAJORITY of the fan base are not the hardcore fans, or whatever you want to call the people on the forums.

(Before anyone starts crying "Geneforge 3" on me, I'm just looking at this from a sales perspective.)

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
I've made a script / story in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Thursday, March 9 2006 01:12 Profile Homepage #99
For once I think I agree with the spirit of all the posts. Now that that's out of the way, allow me to nitpick a few misuses of terminology I feel the need to stomp out:

quote:
Every sort of word or gender has its conjugation. This makes it for me only more tedious to want to learn it. I have to same problem with Latin: there are so many small irregularities and stems, that they have five different conjugations for the nouns, plus three more for neuter and female in two other groups (one group has the two combined).
This is not irregularity. Irregular words are words that don't follow a widely applicable pattern. For example, in English (as in many languages) the verb "to be" is irregular. Having multiple conjugations or declensions just means there are different flavors of regularity. Moreover, Latin is an astoundingly regular language. It has few irregularities compared with most languages.

quote:
I was immediatly attracted by the suffixes, as they seemed just dead simple for me. Just have some different words, stick a suffix behind it for gender, and then one for the case, and there is your first noun, instead of having to learn about 50 different forms for each type of stem
The distinction you are drawing between "suffixes" and "conjugation" is messed up -- maybe there is another English-Dutch translation problem here, and you mean something that is not being communicated by the words you are using? In Latin, Slith, and Nephilian ALIKE (and in many ANE languages), conjugations and declensions tell you what suffixes to use. They all have conjugations and they all have suffixes.

Also, on the subject of worse languages, this will amuse somebody. YuOh is a language (the official language of the Church of v ("Little V")) my fellows and I developed to mock certain linguistic principles:

YuOh is characterized by:

1. an orthographic set consisting of (a) the number 7 impaled by a vertical line, and (b) the character ° with infinitely productivizable diacritics
2. categorically null phonetics
3. phonological feature bundles in which v is both each feature and each feature's determiner
4. absolutist, fundamentalist syntactic domination under v
5. categorically null semantics
6. ritual sacrifice of tracheas

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
I've made a script / story in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 21:01 Profile Homepage #94
quote:
What is so hard to beleive with Elvish is that it is seen in his books and only in his books. He made it up.
Well, obviously he made it up. If you look at it that way, there is no point in comparing the believability of made-up languages, or made-up game worlds, because you are saying they are all equally unbelievable.

My entire post was about evaluating the believability of Nephilian from a linguistic standpoint. Whether or not it's made up has nothing to do with that.

quote:
The fact that he spent decades making up a language to fit with a book is no different than somebody spending a few months making up a language to fit with a game.
The difference in timespan is not relevant in and of itself, no, but it does imply a certain preciseness and meticulousness of elaboration that is completely absent from Nephilian.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The new Congress member... in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 17:43 Profile Homepage #3
You are the weakest link. Goodbye!

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Notice of Eviction in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 17:18 Profile Homepage #24
quote:
—Alorael, who has nothing against iGod. iGod can coexist with Spiderweb in peace. It should just do so in a finite number of threads.
Are you suggesting, Alorael, that iGods are not to be multiplied beyond necessity?

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Notice of Eviction in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 14:58 Profile Homepage #18
And for dedification, whatever happened to iBrator?

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Not really a bug, but odd effect in Avernum 4
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 14:07 Profile Homepage #4
That party would be far from invicible, since Parry only gives 1% parry per weighted point (10 at 10, 11 at 12, etc) against missiles and spells. Archers would mow you down.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
ME! in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 14:01 Profile Homepage #38
Bah. I've never understood long hair on guys. Done right, it's great, but it's so often done wrong. I'll take short hair any day, thanks.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Next Game/Series in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 12:59 Profile Homepage #19
Hmm. If you're going to make Vlish porn, I think you should involve Mr. Fantastic.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
I've made a script / story in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 12:08 Profile Homepage #80
SoT: Absolutely. Here, however, information per syllable is extremely low.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
I've made a script / story in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 11:27 Profile Homepage #75
quote:
Though I don't understand why it should make it unbelievable? What exacrly is the relation between words and grammar in this matter? or do you mean the relation between folk and language?
Well, as you suggest, there are two separate issues here.

1) Is it believable from a LINGUISTIC perspective? That is, is it conceivable that such a language could actually develop naturally?

2) Does it make sense that the Nephilim, as we have seen them, could use this language and could have developed it?

Having a word for "noob" violates the second one. It sounds like you understand why :)

quote:
how about the Slith language? That is just as believable as nephilian, in my opinion.
Honestly, I find Slithzerikaiis a lot easier to swallow than Nephilian. Most importantly, it is in line with what we know about Slith speech (both anatomical phonetics, and language) from the game canon. Nephilian doesn't directly contradict the games, but its phonetics are a real stretch from what we have heard of Nephil speech.

As for the first question, Kelandon was very humble in designing the grammar. He stuck to things he understood very well, and he kept it extremely simple. As a result, there is nothing about it that makes me scratch my head and think "huh. That seems unlikely!" In Nephilian, although many elements of the grammar make sense individually, when you put them all together, it's absurd to think that such a language could really come about. It's just too unlikely. (To give one example that ties together several problems, most Nephilian words are very long, given the piles of suffixes that are tacked onto all nouns and verbs, and we have seen mostly multisyllabic roots so far as well. That means the language would have to be spoken very rapidly in order to communicate at a reasonable pace -- but the Nephils in Ex/Av are characterized as speaking slowly, if anything. Fast speech also contradicts the phonetics.)

Natural languages may seem like they are arbitrarily put together, but they really aren't. They evolve, much the same way animals do, and as such they have the follow the Law of Large Numbers. Weird things are rare, and really weird things just don't happen.

quote:
Beleivable language? About as beleivable as elvish from LotR.
No way. Tolkien spent years -- decades, IIRC -- working on the design of the Elvish languages and making them as consistent and reasonable as he could. I challenge you to tell me what exactly makes them hard to believe. There is no comparison here.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
I'm back in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 10:48 Profile Homepage #7
(Thralni)
quote:
You know me. When I'm slightly buzzed, I get worse.
I can feel my brain stretching as we speak...

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
I've made a script / story in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 10:43 Profile Homepage #70
If I may expand on the "Why?" that Dikiyoba gifted me with, let me point out that including things like a word for "noob" -- things that don't make sense and should not exist -- is exactly why Nephilian is not believable as a language.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
If you had to pick... in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 00:23 Profile Homepage #9
I'd post pictures like Thuryl, but those would DEFINITELY break the coc :P

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
If you had to pick... in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 00:00 Profile Homepage #4
dear god.
bringing up this sort of thing in the chats is bad enough, but on the forums? I'm afraid some of my answers would break the code of conduct.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Forums = Geneforge in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Tuesday, March 7 2006 22:29 Profile Homepage #25
Learned Darian actually appears in all three Geneforges. Few characters do this, and Darian was the only mildly memorable one. He/she (like the dragons, Darian's gender changes) was a neutral servile who all the sects came to for advice, in the first two. She also creates the very first Emerald Chestguard. Her ideology basically lines up with the Awakened. In the third game she has joined the rebels, which kind of destroys the character IMHO.

In the process of batch finding this information, I concluded that in fact she is nothing like Aran and I don't know what I was thinking.

Edit: Phariton and Aodare are both from G2. Phariton is a former Barzite who runs off into the mountains to hoard his power like every other big-name magic user in a Spidweb game does. Aodare is Shaper who is (sort of) working against the Takers whilst being held prisoner by them. He is the one character who hints at the good version of the non-aligned ending, urging you to ignore all the sects and kill everyone responsible for the chaos.

[ Tuesday, March 07, 2006 22:37: Message edited by: Slartucker ]

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Question to... well, just a question really... in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Tuesday, March 7 2006 19:16 Profile Homepage #51
Thuryl looks more like Culkin than I do, and I have been repeatedly accused of looking like him. So, neh. I sympathize.

And Aran, you don't look like Harry Potter, and that's probably a good thing.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Forums = Geneforge in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Tuesday, March 7 2006 18:27 Profile Homepage #18
I don't think anyone here could really fit as Learned Darian. Perhaps Arancaytar, if anyone, but even that is a stretch.

I can see Dikiyoba as Phariton. And likewise I can see myself as Aodare.

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
I've made a script / story in General
Slarty
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
 written Tuesday, March 7 2006 17:16 Profile Homepage #36
Cute. I'm curious why you aren't in it, Dikiyoba. It seems like the stage directions would be a natural place for you to talk about yourself in the third person.

Edit: Synergy is hardly gone. I suppose his physical form is kaput, but he has been haunting spidweb chats of all varieties on a nightly basis.

[ Tuesday, March 07, 2006 17:19: Message edited by: Slartucker ]

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Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00

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