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DOCTOR WHO in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #15
Thanks for the info, Micawber and Skippy. Very much appreciated.

It's good to hear that they're maintaining the flavor of the original show. And yes, the angst in the last two McCoy seasons and the entire run of New Adventures got old very fast. Especially with the later, where they turned Ace into a moronic fast-and-loose killing machine. I think one of the failings of this angst-ridden period was that there were too many young authors in charge. Young writers seem to feel that they need to make things as unpleasant, gritty, and "realistic" as possible to show that they really are "serious" writers. Fortunately, about a third of the way into the BBC's run of books, most of these authors had aged enough and were successful enough that they didn't feel they had to "prove" anything any more.

I'm glad to hear that children remain the target audience — that keeps unpleasantness and idiotic angst to a minimum. I must admit that when I learned Russell T. Davies was to be the series script editor and head writer, I threw up my arms in resignation. I'd read his New Adventure Damaged Goods and found it to be the single most disgusting, offensive, and rottenest book I'd ever read. To me it represented everything that was wrong with modern SF, the New Adventures, young writers, and, well, just everything! I'm still not quite sure how the Davies who wrote that book could ever write for children, but hey, the world is full of surprises, and any good author knows his audience. I guess perhaps Davies knew his novel was targeting an adult audience so held nothing back. So it would seem he has the ability — as all writers should — to change what he writes to fit the intended audience. So that's comforting to know.

And regarding the 50-minute format — very sad. To me, the model Doctor Who story is four episodes long, which comes to about an hour and forty minutes — longer even than your typical movie. That gives the writer enough room to introduce the setting, explore the situation, do some fun running around, cook up a solution, and implement it. Fifty minutes is hardly enough time to even start the "running around" stage by my clock!

And about cliffhangers — interestingly, this is an aspect of the show that has never affected the American viewers. You see, PBS would edit the individual episodes together seamlessly, with the beginning music at the very start and then the end credits at the end of the final episode. So to Americans, the average story was almost exactly like a full-length movie. Of course, with stories like The War Games PBS would air a one-part edit of episodes 1-5 one week, then a separate one-part edit of episodes 6-10 the next week. Trial of a Time Lord was the other serial that got this week-by-week treatment, but even so they edited into just 4 separate segments rather than the original 14.  These were the only sorts of cliffhangers we Americans ever got to see! Doctor Who has always been served up in huge cohesive slabs to be viewed in a single sitting — perhaps as strong a testament to the real potential length of Americans' attention span as there ever was...

And about DVDs — I really despise the regional encoding system. But your comments got me to thinking, Skippy. I have an iMac with a combo drive that I often watch movies on. So I did some digging around out of curiosity, and found that an iMac's "region" can be reset up to five times, but after that it's stuck in its last region mode and only the manufacturer can reset it. Phooey. Maybe when my family's current DVD player bites the dust I'll go out of my way to find a multi-region DVD player so I won't have to wait for shows such as these to appear on the American market. I know a few people who've gone this route and it seems to work fine for them. Good advice there! There are currently no laws against this sort of thing in the U.S., but at the current rate that our Legislative Leviatian is running amock, I'm sure it won't be long, so I'd best do it while we still can.

Thanks again, both of you, for such interesting conversation. It's not often I get to interact with other Doctor Who fans...

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Hagfen in Nethergate
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #11
In that case, maybe we need only one smoking regulation:

Every brand has to be named Hagfen. Since, if you say, no one would smoke anything called Hagfens, I see Big Tobacco being felled with one sharp blow.
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
The Abominable Photo Thread 3.6 in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #42
With all the Ben/Marlenny nonsense going on, perhaps you all can better understand why I posted a photo of the Abominable Snowman rather than myself?

Besides, I thought it was fitting that the Abominable Snowman should make an appearance in the Abominable Photo Thread.

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Hagfen in Nethergate
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #9
No — no vast conspiracy here, I'm afraid. Just plain idiocy.

Still, all that said, I can't believe nobody else has had at least the fleeting thought that Hagfen sounds like a brand of cigarettes...

Surely somebody has had a similar thought? Anybody? Anybody at all?

EDIT: To be perfectly frank, I must admit that it sounds more like a cigarette brand around midnight than it does around noon. Things are so much funnier and make more sense when your mind isn't working quite as it should...

[ Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:08: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Ethical Survey in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #37
I wonder if Alorael's next moniker is going to be "A Study in Scarlet" — if he continues with the "Article Noun preposition Color" literary-reference theme, anyway.

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
DOCTOR WHO in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #12
Yes, Skippy, parts one and two of The Seeds of Doom took place in Antarctica. One of the men was nearby when the first pod opened up and it infected him, transforming him into a Krynoid, a sentient flesh-eating plant. Then parts three through six took place in England, where the mysterious Mr. Chase studied the second pod and everything really started going awry.

It's good to hear Blake's Seven getting such high priase. If they put season one out on American DVD tomorrow I'd buy it, thanks to everyone's ringing endorsements.

Could you guys in the Commonwealth countries tell me a bit about the new Doctor Who series? It appears that it'll be forever and a day before they release this on American DVD, and no television channel here has shown the slighest interest in airing it, so I'd like some firsthand reports please. What I've read on the internet seems fairly positive, but I'm afraid to read too much and accidentally run into spoilers. I hate spoilers...

I get the impression the new series actually has a decent budget. I must say I have mixed feelings about this — I love the "homey" feel the original series had, and feel, rather paradoxically, that their low budgets made the stories and acting that much more important. Then again, lots of the original novels are superb and those are on an "unlimited" budget since you can imagine it all in your mind.

What are the stories like (without giving away any plot details)? Are they in the same spirit as the original series? Of course, the original series covered a lot of moods and approaches — for instance, your average Hartnell story is very different than the average McCoy story.

What about the scripts — is there an emphasis on contemporary themes and settings? I hope not — those are the ones that date very quickly and aren't very interesting. Are there any historical adventures? Or do they mix SF and history as they did after the Troughton era (which I prefered above the straight historicals)? Do they throw in sex, crude humor, and suchlike to draw in the juvenile audiences?

Etc.?

[ Tuesday, October 11, 2005 20:41: Message edited by: Icshi ]

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Hagfen in Nethergate
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #5
There are a number of conclusions that can be inferred from the stony silence that has greeted my previous post:

(1.) Nobody visits the Nethergate forum. Nobody cares about Nethergate. Nobody even looks at the line on the main page that has "Nethergate" written on it. Nobody appreciates true greatness. This finest of fine games undeservedly languishes in a dungeon of its own obscurity.

(2.) Don't over-react, Icshi. This forum has always been quiet. All the other Nethergate fans are probably doing something meaningful and productive with their lives right now as you sit and simmer in your own claustrophobic little world.

(3.) You're fooling yourself, Icshi. Everybody read your previous post. Everybody thinks you're outta yer rotty lil' mind. The connection between "Hagfen" and "cigarette brand" is not a natural one, and is a strong indication that strong treatment is called for.

I should know better by now not to post anything after 10 o'clock at night...

IMAGE(http://www.simchic.com/forum/images/smileys/crazy_smiley.gif)
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
On Nov 1st, 2005.... in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #6
I saw Episode III three times in the theater. Heck yes I'm excited!

It was the best of all the Star Wars movies — and no, I couldn't believe it was written and directed by the same dung-foisting fool who created Episodes I & II. And Portman and Christensen were so much better in III, that I couldn't believe they were the same "actors" who appeared in II.

I think Lucas is at his best when exploring tragedy: THX-1138, The Empires Strikes Back, and now Revenge of the Sith.

[ Tuesday, October 11, 2005 20:10: Message edited by: Icshi ]

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Ethical Survey in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #32
quote:
Originally written by Thralni, emperor of Riverrod:

it may be the next famous rock-singer
All the more reason to let him die.

quote:
or the man who restores world peace
Well, in order for world peace to be restored, it would have had to existed in the first place.

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Galactic Core in Richard White Games
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #3
In my saner moments I think Apple Core would be a more fitting name.
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Hagfen in Nethergate
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #4
I know this is seriously and ludicrously off-topic, but...

Does anyone else think "Hagfen" sounds like a cigarette brand?

IMAGE(http://www.smileyworld.com/dictionary/images/smileys/InAction/smoking_cigarette.gif)

As in the phrase "Oi, I just smokeda packa Hagfens!"

[ Monday, October 10, 2005 20:23: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Ethical Survey in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #13
1. Male. Not much to discuss here.

2. "Very," in a "somewhat" sort of way. I'm "very" in terms of my beliefs, but "somewhat" or "very little" in terms of participating in group ritual or sharing my beliefs with others. I'm not much in line with any recognized modern religion, all of which have been severely corrupted somewhere along the line. My most deeply held beliefs are far off the beaten path, and if I explained them they would be considered either "bizarre" or "very unusual" at best.

3. I'm not sure. As soon as I stop eating Skittles, I'll see what ends up in my mouth and let you know.

4. Yes. I'd rather see just one person torn in two rather than five. I'm squeamish.

5. No. I doubt any human being could be that fat. And if they were of Dale the Whale proportions, they're very unlikely to be out and about walking over bridges. Conclusion: this fat person is, for whatever strange reasons, wearing several sofa cushions under his trenchcoat. Perhaps he's a key player in some dark and perverted ethical psychology test.

6. No. I love old people and hate children.

[ Monday, October 10, 2005 20:30: Message edited by: Icshi ]

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
DOCTOR WHO in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #7
Yes, Genesis of the Daleks and The Caves of Androzani are also two of my favorites. They're both very bleak, and that lends their stories so much more force.

One of the strongest aspects of Inferno is the contrast between the two parallel worlds. Otherwise it would've been an interesting but strangley pedestrian story about breaking through the Earth's crust. To see the world we're familiar with twisted so badly, the characters we love warped into dark parodies of themselves, and then to actually see the world end despite the Doctor's attempts to save it makes the whole situation so nightmarish that it stands as one of their finest serials. And the fact that the nature and goals of the green goo oozing up from the mantle are never explained makes it that much more threatening. Nothing is more detrimental to an atmosphere of fear in a story than trying to explain too much.

Other good episodes are:

The Green Death — I love that highly cultured computer that's using Global Chemicals' CEO as its pawn, and hums bits from Beethoven and Iolanthe as the network of computers is being connected

Colony in Space — an excellent presentation of the issues of colonization, empires, and corporate greed, and one that takes its time in telling the story

The Face of Evil — shows the unpredictable consequences of some of the Doctor's casual actions, and has a brilliant depiction of a degenerated space-faring society

I don't like Paul Cornell's work by and large — Love and War was the only novel by him that I actually liked. (Goth Opera and No Future was all right, but nothing noteworthy.) But I do consider myself quite a Christopher Bulis fan. I think Palace of the Red Sun or Vanderdeken's Children is his best. I haven't read Sorceror's Apprentice yet. He's able to use the established format to tell a story, and doesn't waste time performing idiotic experimental pyrotechnics that is the trademark of other authors like Paul Magrs and Kate Orman. I like Magrs' The Scarlet Empress a lot, though — I don't know what went wrong; he hasn't written a good book since then. Lawrence Miles is about the only experimenter to succeed at what he's trying to do, and he does it well.

Thanks for the information on Blake's 7.

I remember the cast of "crossover" actors from DW now that you remind me. Wasn't Richard Hurndall running around in a rather skimpy outfit in the episode he appeared in? I remember reading that somewhere and found it almost too terrible to imagine! I also read somewhere that the end of the series had all the heroes killed off — a brave move for television, in any country or decade.

[ Monday, October 10, 2005 16:09: Message edited by: Icshi ]

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Everyone's a Comedian in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #50
quote:
Originally written by Hands and Minds:

"God answered you? What did he say?"

"Well..." the rabbi says slowly, "He said, 'Funny you should mention that. I have a son, and I raised him to be a good Jewish boy, and...'"

That's also one of my all-time favorites, though it's been a while since I heard it. Apart from being hilarious, it's a good history lesson too.

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
DOCTOR WHO in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #5
The episodes that made the greatest impression on me (in terms of juvenile terror) were Planet of Evil with its atmosphere of otherworldly isolation, and The Seeds of Doom with the plants being taken over by the Krynoids. Frontios also scared me — but for some reason seeing the captain plugged into that excavation machine, with its metallic tendrils that latch onto its occupant, frightened me more than anything else.

Truth to tell, I've never been to a Doctor Who convention — I don't like conventions at all. The only motivation to go to one would be to see the merchandise available, but even so I can get those kinds of thing online more easily and I don't have to pay an $80 door fee to see it. I'd rather spend all that money on actual tangibles, thank you very much.

Just to stir up a bit more conversation (or maybe just to soliloquize), here's a list of my favorite episodes:

The War Games — this epic ten-part Troughton serial has some of the finest scripting and acting in the series' history

Inferno — "Must... reach... penetration... zero!"

The Pirate Planet — written by Douglas Adams. What more do I need to say?

I think the most under-rated episode is The Horns of Nimon — yes, the sets are appallingly cheap, the script is often repetitive and lackluster, but Graham Crowden's zanny over-the-top performance as Soldeed makes this one worth watching many times over. "The Nimon be praised!"

And I think the best novels are:

Original Sin by Andy Lane

The Well-Mannered War by Gareth Roberts

Alien Bodies by Lawrence Miles — easily the best Doctor Who story ever told

P.S. — Yes, Micawber, you're spot on! I thought it was fitting that an abominable snowman should appear in the abominable photo thread...

I didn't expect anyone to recognize the reference, though, but very glad that somebody did.

You say the "DSV Liberator" has a tenuous link to DW — could you explain it? I did a Google search on the phrase and found mainly pages discussing Blake's 7 (Terry Nation's series which I'd like to see some day). If that is a Blake's 7, does that mean you're also a fan of that series? Would you recommend it highly enough for me to try to find the series on DVD even if I've never seen it? Well, if they ever get around to releasing it in Region 1, anyway.

[ Monday, October 10, 2005 11:40: Message edited by: Icshi ]

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
DOCTOR WHO in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #0
Politics — bah! Legislation — bah! Quibbling over the nature of science vs. religion — bah! The fate of the world hanging in the balance between utter destruction at the hands of fanaticism and powerjunkies, or falling into apathy and darkness — bah!

Let's get on to things that really matter. Let's talk about Doctor Who.

Feel free to participate in this poll and then discuss your favorite aspects of the show, favorite episodes, favorite writers, etc., in subsequent posts. Or just share random memories and impressions of the show. Assuming, of course, anybody else is qualified to do so.

For the record, I picked the next-to-last option as my response. That should tell you everything you need to know about me in relation to this most fantastic of television programs. You'll also notice an American slant on the options, but that is because (a) I'm an American, & (b) we American Whovians outnumber you Britfans anyway, new series or no new series. And the right to outnumber others is the essence of democracy, is it not?

I also know Mariann Krizsan is a Doctor Who fan. I hope she stops by and contributes even a single post to this discussion.

IMAGE(http://www.davidbowie.com/users/scottspalding/doctor-who-diamond-logo.jpg)

[ Sunday, October 09, 2005 21:35: Message edited by: Icshi ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 35 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
The Abominable Photo Thread 3.6 in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #2
quote:
Originally written by Archmage Alex:

I am finally able to get a pic of myself up on the internet.
Are you the one facing away from the camera? IMAGE(http://www.polarisboard.org/board/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

In all seriousness, though, it's always nice to see what these faceless names I interact with every day look like in the "real" world.

Here's me:

IMAGE(http://www.home.earthlink.net/~icshi/Yeti.jpg)

If you don't believe me, you can look at my user profile here:

http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile;u=00001528

After all, who would lie about such a thing in their [b]user profile[/b] of all places? What depths of duplicity do you think I'm honestly capable of?

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Everyone's a Comedian in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #20
Q: What's the difference between a contortionist and an extortionist?

A: The former is an introvert who twists himself into pretzel-shapes for money, while the latter is an extrovert who twists other people into pretzel-shapes for money.

(A terrible joke of my own devising. Rotten vegetables can be thrown at any time.)

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Sleep in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #16
quote:
Originally written by Marlenny:

And I thought I was bored.
Well, I wasn't so much bored as I was tired and obsessive. A bad combination.

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Sleep in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #8
Another good reason to go to bed at 10 in the morning would be if you worked the graveyard shift at, for instance, a graveyard. You know, just like someone out of a Lovecraft story. Dragging yourself home after a late night of bodysnatching and unspeakable ceremonies.

[ Saturday, October 08, 2005 22:04: Message edited by: Icshi ]

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Sleep in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #4
Probably someone who doesn't know A.M. from P.M. And whose Latin is a little rusty.

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Sleep in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #1
It wasn't a poll, of course, but wasn't there a discussion about this some months ago?

EDIT: Okay, seems it was a poll:

http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002658

Again, just for the record, I usually go to bed around midnight and sleep for nine to ten hours.

And when I get up, 700 virgins serve me freshly squeezed orange juice in a golden goblet.

I get a fresh supply of them every day.

EDIT #2: Based on what I just wrote, I guess the answer to "How much sleep do I get every night?" should be "Still not enough."

EDIT #3: I thought about deleting the contents of Edit #2 but figured "Why not?"

EDIT #4: Deleted some of the contents of EDIT #3. Maybe it's time for me to go to bed before I really type something that I'll regret in the morning?

EDIT #5: Deleted the contents of EDITs #3 and #4.

EDIT #6: And then put them back in. Then went to bed.

EDIT #7: Okay. Didn't go to bed. Came back and changed a few things everywhere but in EDIT #7.

[ Saturday, October 08, 2005 21:18: Message edited by: Icshi ]

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Fav Accent in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #29
I love any British accent. Scots is nice — the best I encountered was from some guy collecting bus tickets in Edinburgh — as are some of the more "disreputable" London accents. I could listen to any of them all day long. Sweet music.

On the other hand, I loathe and despise the U.S. Southern accent. I've been exposed to it for so long when I was attending college in the South, that I wouldn't be surprised if I glow in the dark and have a half-life of 130 years and am now sterile.

At college I prided myself on being able to understand any accent. We had a fair number of students from exotic foreign countries, and I could understand them with no problem whatsoever while all those around me squinted with incomprehension whenever they spoke. I have a friend from Singapore whose accent apparently was exceptionally difficult to understand, yet I never had any problems.

And then one day my perfect record was ruined when I met a guy from Tennessee. Absolute gibberish. You'll never be able to convince me that was English he was speaking. I minimized contact with him because whenever he talked to me I would just stand there with a fake smile on my face nodding every now and then to give him the imrpession that I was studiously contemplating his every word. I was probably nodding and smiling while he was telling me how his entire family had been killed by a demon-possessed bulldozer. He probably thought I was some kind of retard.

[Oh, and P.S. — I loved that umlaut joke, Ornk of Death!]

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Youth in Asia and the US Supreme Court in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #7
I remember when I was a kid and heard adults speaking out against euthanasia. My reaction to it all was "What's so bad about kids in China?"

Finally one day I came across the word in a book and looked it up in the dictionary, learning its meaning, pronunciation, and etymology. And what do you know, the adults weren't talking about kids in China after all.

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Politics and Beliefs in General
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #3
Among the choices of "Socialist" and "Reactionary" you didn't have "Wearily and Calculatedly Indifferent." So no vote.

All semi-jesting aside, I'd consider myself a libertarian, though not as extreme as the Libertarian Party proper. By and large I hate all politics, since it's all villains wearing different masks trying to bamboozle people into giving them more power. Different powermongers like to push conservative buttons, others liberal buttons. But their aims and desires are the same — black hearts through and through.

The U.S. war in Iraq is just the powermongers throwing their weight around while pretending to be sanctimonious. Power means nothing to these people unless they're doing something with it, and without people to praise them for their "valorous deeds."

And as far as laws are concerned — laws are not the solution to society's ills. As the past 6,000 years should've adequately demonstrated.

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The A.E. van Vogt Information Site
My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00

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