Profile for Eldibs
Field | Value |
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Displayed name | Eldibs |
Member number | 1468 |
Title | Lifecrafter |
Postcount | 818 |
Homepage | http://www.eldibs.sphosting.com/ |
Registered | Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
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The Worst Game Ever in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 15:19
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quote:100% true. Well, actually, I would call it an interactive slideshow. quote:I never played Myst long enough to remember anything about it, but from what I remember about Riven, it didn't come together well at all. It was hard to get used to, and it didn't seem to flow very well. Half-Life came together very well. Everything was balanced just right. quote:Name a game that has a story similar to Half-Life. Also, Half-Life has an ambience as well. Ever try to get past three giant tentacles without getting instantly obliterated? Or how about getting get caught in a pool of water filled with ichthyosaurs? And the Half-Life series has an advantage that Myst and Riven don't: replayability. After you've solved all the puzzles and experienced the entire story, there isn't really much left to do but gawk at the prerendered still images. After you've solved all the puzzles and got all the story from Half-Life, you can still have fun blowing apart aliens and blowing apart your friends in multiplayer. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
The Worst Game Ever in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
|
written Tuesday, December 13 2005 10:37
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quote:Yes, it was. There was also Point of View. Playing through the same events from different views was cool, but playing through the events from the viewpoint of one of the aliens was totally sweet. I'm waiting for them to make similar mods for Half-Life 2. Which reminds me. Half-Life and Half-Life 2 have something that Myst and Riven don't: the ability to make mods. Mods can easily double the replayability of a game. [ Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:38: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
E2: Test of Mind in The Exile Trilogy | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 10:28
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quote:I got "statue" on that one. I suspect "sno" will work as well, due to the 3 character words thingy. I assume it's short for "snowman." -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
The Worst Game Ever in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 09:26
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quote:They do have better graphics and stories than most adventure games, but not better puzzles. They have harder puzzles, but not better. Besides, it takes more than that to make a game. It has to come together well too. And I do like adventure games. quote:Have you played Half-Life and Half-Life 2 all the way through? They have awesome stories. While I wouldn't say they have a story quite as good Deus Ex, they are still very good. They have suspense, government conspiracies, alien takeovers, and plenty of violent interaction with said aliens. And all story elements are handled in real time, none of that cutscene crap. They have great immersion due to this, and the fact that Gordon Freeman never speaks (giving you the feeling that you are Gordon). quote:Yes, very much so. Personally, they make me want to beat down an oak tree with my bare hands. If I wanted frustration, I'd try and chisel through a rock with a toothpick. quote:Exactly. How is that fun? If you can enjoy Myst for hours on end, then you could probably do the same with this. Now, I'm going to go play Half-Life 2 some more. Have fun pointing and clicking. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
Help! I think I broke my game! in The Exile Trilogy | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 05:43
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<spam type="text/pointless"> I do believe Thralni has pwnz0rr3d you. </spam> -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
The Worst Game Ever in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 20:37
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quote:I also can't stand The Sims. I'm a little amazed that I completely forgot my hatred of them. quote:Pared down to a minimum? All the point and click adventures I've played had worse graphics, and their puzzles had nowhere near the complexity that Myst and Riven puzzles do. I've never even seen a puzzle game that had more complex puzzles than Riven or Myst. However, If there is one good thing about them, it's the story. While I wouldn't compare it to the Half-Life series, it's still unique, and better than Halo. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
The Worst Game Ever in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 20:01
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quote:Half-Life 2. Good graphics, good physics, good story, and good gameplay. Detailed doesn't only mean good graphics. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
The Worst Game Ever in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 19:47
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quote:Now now, it's ok to be jealous, but just remember this phrase: "Da Nile isn't just a river in Egypt." quote:While I agree with that first part, I disagree with the second. Unlike Rosie O'Donnel, he might be able to change for the better. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
A3 Trainer Released! in The Avernum Trilogy | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 19:38
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I hate to spam, but I just can't let this go (I guess it's the redneck in me): <spam type="text/pointless"><textwall> quote:Shotguns aren't measured in calibers. They are measured in gauges (the only exception to this is the .410, which describes the bore size). The smaller the gauge, the larger the bore size. Moreover, caliber doesn't necessarily mean how strong it is. Caliber is just bullet width, measured in inches. Therefore, a .22 caliber bullet has a bullet size (minus the case, powder, etc...) of .22 inches. Caliber doesn't show how long a bullet is, how big its case is, or how much powder it has behind it. For example, a .223 bullet is .223 inches wide, and a .22 bullet is .22 inches wide. Not much width difference, huh? Well the .223 bullet is longer, and has more powder behing it, giving it more power. The .223: The .22: Plus, not all standard bullets are measured by caliber. Some are measured in millimeters, width by height. For example, the 9mm bullet is actually 9 x 19mm, and once again, that doesn't state how much powder it has. Also, there are variations on ammunition. For example, 9mm can refer to 9 x 19mm Luger or Parabellum, or it could refer to 9 x 18mm. Just like 7.62 can refer to 7.62 x 39mm, or 7.62 x 56mm. With several bullets, higher numbers mean a stronger bullet, but not always. A 7mm Mauser is a stronger shell than any standard 9mm, and a .270 is comparable in strength (if not stronger) to the .357 magnum. quote:I murdered you long before you pulled out your tiny shotgun. </textwall></spam> [ Monday, December 12, 2005 19:40: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
The Worst Game Ever in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 19:14
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quote:My thinking was "If the original sucked this bad, the sequel has to be better." I was wrong. Simply no action in either game. Both exemplify why you should NEVER put more value in graphics than gameplay. They simply have nothing gameplay-wise. If there were more games like them, I would give up gaming altogether. I would equate the gameplay in Riven to going through a maze that has beautiful scenery. I would equate the experience of playing it to stabbing myself in the eyes with a rusty, serrated kitchen knife. Now that I think about it, Riven and Myst are the games I hate the most. Actually, hate isn't a strong enough word. It's more like absolute loathing with every fiber of my being. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
The Worst Game Ever in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 12:42
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Just Stronghold 2, as I haven't played the others yet. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
A3 Trainer Released! in The Avernum Trilogy | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 12:31
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Wow, that's a tiny shotgun. Now if you had a 1 gauge shotgun, that would be huge. The smaller the number, the bigger the shotgun. *pulls out Mega Missile Launcher +5 and decimates cybertron13* Yeah, if somebody who has the A3 and G2 trainers will send them to me, I'll host them for all to download. [ Monday, December 12, 2005 12:37: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
The Worst Game Ever in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 12:20
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quote:Which game are you referring to as horrible? Personally, I like the first Diablo better. Less cheating, more challenge, more randomness. And on my PC, it installs in literally 3 seconds. The worst game I ever played. Hmmm. that's I hard one, as I have played several bad games. I'll just post a list: Halo 2 (not necessarily bad, but I hate it because it's wayyyyy over-rated) Myst Riven Danny Phantom: The Ultimate Enemy Stronghold 2 I'm not sure which of those I hate more, as I hate them all a whole lot. [ Monday, December 12, 2005 12:20: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
What games? in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 12:11
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quote: quote:Ahh!!! *beats face against porcupine* quote:Wow, I thought nobody else played it. [ Monday, December 12, 2005 12:27: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
What to do When You're Feeling Down in Geneforge Series | |
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Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 10:53
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Personally, I find playing "Night of a Million Zombies" in Half-Life 2 helps me blow off steam more than anything. It's loads of fun. Sawblades everywhere that you can hurl, explosive barrels, plenty of ammo, an infinite army of zombies, etc... -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
Aaaargh! Windows! in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 10:10
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Yeah, but the USB drives are more reliable, and they're quicker too. I have a 256 MB one, and several of my classes require that I have one. I use it all the time. I even have my entire website backed up on it. quote:They have all sorts of names. I've heard USB drive, flash drive, thumb drive, and memory stick. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
Aaaargh! Windows! in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 10:02
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IIRC, you can use an IPod as a USB drive, and they work on both Windows and Mac, so I don't see why a regular USB drive wouldn't work. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
Aaaargh! Windows! in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 09:42
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Yes, perhaps I should. Then again, I haven't bought any CD-R's in a while, so I'm not too sure on their price anywhere. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
A3 Trainer Released! in The Avernum Trilogy | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 09:04
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If someone will e-mail it to me, I'll host it. eldibszankroth AT hotmail DOT com *murders cybertron13 for his table size altering quadruple posts, then slips back into the shadows* -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
Aaaargh! Windows! in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 08:52
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quote: quote:I guess that's a disadvantage of using Macs. I have no problem with multi-session CDs. In fact, I used to make them all the time to transfer drivers and game mods at lan-parties (back when we only had a 10 Mb hub). Perhaps it's just the way Macs handle CD burning. quote:Unless that medium only happens to cost 50 cents a piece. You can just throw away the old burned CDs and make a new one. And of course, you could just get a USB Drive, and use it to transfer files. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
Runescape anyone? in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, December 12 2005 07:33
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Please note that prices may vary depending on, but not limited to: Location (in game) Which world you're in Time of Day Time of Week Time of Year How many people are selling the same thing Mother's Maiden Name -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
What games? in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Sunday, December 11 2005 21:30
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Outside of Spidweb, I mainly play the following: Half-Life Half-Life 2 Counter-Strike: Source UT2004 Neverwinter Nights Icewind Dale 2 Command & Conquer Generals: Zero Hour SatrCraft Runescape Megaman X8 Edit: I can't believe I forgot a game... [ Monday, December 12, 2005 05:46: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
Runescape anyone? in General | |
Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Sunday, December 11 2005 14:18
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Just saying. Usually, you won't get anything for the high-alch price. Go into World 1 and start saying "Buying Rune Kite, 45k" arround one of the Varrock banks. [ Sunday, December 11, 2005 14:29: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
Help! I think I broke my game! in The Exile Trilogy | |
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written Sunday, December 11 2005 14:14
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Not really. Sometimes swearing is necessary to get your point across. Now if his sentence was mostly swear words, then he would need the soap. Personally, I would have used another word, one that begins with a 'b'. But maybe that's just the effect of locational differences visible in speech. [ Sunday, December 11, 2005 14:16: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
Runescape anyone? in General | |
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Member # 1468
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written Sunday, December 11 2005 10:58
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quote:There's no way you're getting a Rune Kite for that much. The lowest I've ever seen is 40k, and it can go up to as high as 60k. 45-50k is usually the price that they go for. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |