Wow (G4)
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Warrior
Member # 7254
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 05:01
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but no matter what, in the end, it is a lonely human or a servile that decides the outcome of the war. :P Posts: 73 | Registered: Monday, June 26 2006 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7223
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 05:09
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The Rebels could consist of a soggy leaf of lettuce, a fyora, and a five year old kid, and simply because you join them, they will win. Which brings up another question. Why aren't there any children in Geneforge? -------------------- Polaris The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. - H.P. Lovecraft Posts: 164 | Registered: Wednesday, June 14 2006 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6923
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 06:00
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There is at least one in G1. (Awakened Town) Don't know about the others. -------------------- "There are no turtles anywhere" Ponder Stibbons One, Two, Three, Pfhor, Five… Avernum 2 AM Status - Maps - Tomb of Dahris-Bok - Annotation - Fort Draco/Ganrick Spider/Areana Caves I have an interest in "custard titles". I want one. Now! Posts: 74 | Registered: Friday, March 17 2006 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 06:25
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quote:Because graphics are expensive/time consuming to make. ;) -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6923
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 06:38
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Oh, did you mean children GRAPHICS? :rolleyes: -------------------- "There are no turtles anywhere" Ponder Stibbons One, Two, Three, Pfhor, Five… Avernum 2 AM Status - Maps - Tomb of Dahris-Bok - Annotation - Fort Draco/Ganrick Spider/Areana Caves I have an interest in "custard titles". I want one. Now! Posts: 74 | Registered: Friday, March 17 2006 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 10:36
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Originally by Kryten: quote:She/he also shows up in G2. And I think there's a child in Zhass-Uss as well. Originally by Mr. Bookworm: quote:Hey, it's possible, provided that the monster AI is still dumb, the fyora is yours to control, the soggy leaf of lettuce is placed on a smooth floor, and the five year old is unnaturally precocious (as all five year olds in these situations are) and so has the capabilities of a fully-trained Agent. All you have to do is send the fyora out on scouting missions. When it runs into an enemy patrol, the patrol will chase after it (or better yet, call for help so that all the patrols in the area can chase after it). Then the fyora runs back to where the soggy leaf of lettuce is with the patrol following. Some of the patrol members will slip and fall after stepping on the soggy leaf of lettuce, thus preventing them from acting for several rounds. Then you and the five year old blast the patrol apart with powerful spells. (The fyora will be spitting fire at the patrol as well, but it probably won't do much damage.) Repeat until Shaper resistance crumbles, go kill the Shaper leaders, and the rebels have won the war! They'd have an awfully hard time maintaining control, though. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 10:57
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While shapers may not be the front line, they are there and their army of creations is infront of them with the guardians, guards, and maybe even the odd agent sent to destroy the commander of the rebel army. Just because in peace shapers mostly do research, shapers are the base of the three classes and I doubt that they just let the guardians and agents take over two whole continents... -------------------- "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC) "The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process." -Kripke "One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly." -Friedich Nietzche Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 11:16
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About understaffing: the Ashen Isles aren't exactly crawling with fully qualified Shapers, but then there aren't a heck of a lot of rebel leaders either. Nothing but spawners and cameos from fugitives Hoge and Litalia until pretty far along on Dhonal, and if I remember rightly the ranking rebel presence even there is just a few Drayks who seem rather to have struck out on their own. On Spears you finally find a few Drakons. The swarms of mass-produced Ur-Drakons are a dream for the future; until then, the Rebellion runs on a comparative shoestring, too. On the Shaper control ethic: I'm serious that the Shaper Council and all its works look like the maddest experiment of all, when you just step back a level or two of scale. They are deeply committed to keeping up Shaper domination, and advancing Shaper power with new techniques and creations. Their history, and for that matter their contemporary geography, are full of example after example of good Shapers gone bad and things gotten wildly out of hand. And their response to all this, on the long view, is just to keep at it: next time more control, next time tighter discipline; ban this creation type, bar that island; on with the show. On the level of correcting mistakes by individuals, the Shapers react and adapt, step back and restrain. But as a society they seem to learn nothing, and on this level their measures of control and containment seem no wiser than the Taker policy of locking the worst failures into Inner Gazak-Uss, and carrying on with the great project. Zoom out, and the Shapers look like Takers writ large. They too will evolve over a few generations from alien monsters dominating humanity into even more alien monsters dominating humanity more thoroughly; and their only comparative virtue is that they won't do it so fast. Sure, time scales matter a lot. And the Shapers are at least the devil we know. But they are not really so different from the Rebels, fundamentally, and I think that under wartime pressures this will become more apparent. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 11:58
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I can't see the Shapers, on the whole, taking a moderate course and coming to agreement with the rebels. Drakons are (albeit indirectly) their creations, and they don't bargain with their creations. They command them, and if that doesn't work, they kill them. I won't be surprised if they unleash horrors that wipe out entire regions, and consider it a cost worth paying to wipe out these especially unruly rogues. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. New Mac BoE Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3513
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written Sunday, July 2 2006 18:50
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quote:Mmmm, sexy. -------------------- Nobody appreciates me. It's all "Igor! Fetch some wine!" "Igor! Clean up this experiment!" or "Igor! Bury this in the garden, we're leaving town in 10 minutes!" —Alorael, who tried to become a deivore once. The priest gave him a funny look after the third wafer. Posts: 301 | Registered: Thursday, October 2 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7273
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written Monday, July 3 2006 05:02
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How can a servile hold Essence in his or her body ? Looking forward to fight battles in the shaper war. Wouldn't it be nice if your faction could take an enemy city and hold it ? -------------------- I am the Prince of Persia and the King of Blades. Stand aside or fall forever by my sword. Posts: 3 | Registered: Monday, July 3 2006 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Monday, July 3 2006 05:13
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This would became Warlords... Ahem, noone have noticed that in the 3rd there are Living Tools in the Quick-Items Slots? This would mean that the opening-loked-door system may have changed. Another curious thing: the name of the new, lighting, creation (It's like a Kodo beast!)... Isn't similar at the name of a Shaper that hide in a tower in GF3? :o -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Monday, July 3 2006 05:50
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Originally by MagmaDragoon: quote:Khyryk and kyshakk? Yes, they are fairly similar. The kyshakk looks similar to an apatosaurus to Dikiyoba. Dikiyoba's 8 year old self is happy. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Board Administrator
Member # 1
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written Monday, July 3 2006 09:26
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"Why aren't there any children in Geneforge?" Part of it is the expense of graphics, as someone mentioned. But, if you'll think on it, you'll notice that there are almost no children in any computer RPGs. A lot of the reason for that is tactics/cowardice on the part of people in the industry. It's already getting politically and legally tough for us. Nobody wants to open themselves up to someone saying, "Hey! In their game, it's possible to chop up little kids with a sword! Ban it now!" - Jeff Vogel -------------------- Official Board Admin spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Monday, July 3 2006 09:30
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Can I ask why GF4 will cost more? -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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Dollop of Whipped Cream
Member # 391
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written Monday, July 3 2006 10:01
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Probably because it'll have NEW things. Starting with a different plot, different graphics, different creations, and weather will play a bigger part, etc. Besides it's only what? 3 more dollars? So far, it seems worth it. I just noticed that Intrall said it first quote:Edit: if memory serves me right (however, I could be dead wrong about this), wasn't there a kid on GF2? Somewhere with the takers? I could swear he/she was talking about his/her mom or something. [ Monday, July 03, 2006 10:05: Message edited by: Leena ] -------------------- "Tyranicus is about the only one that still posts in the Nethergate Forum." —Randomizer Spiderweb Chat Room Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things. Posts: 562 | Registered: Friday, December 14 2001 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7223
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written Monday, July 3 2006 10:05
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quote:You can ask, but you won't get an answer. :P -------------------- Polaris The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. - H.P. Lovecraft Posts: 164 | Registered: Wednesday, June 14 2006 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Monday, July 3 2006 10:17
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quote:Say what? I distinctly remember children in A2- they were a nice addition. And anyway, it's possible to go on a homicidal rampage and murder every living being in the Avernums and Geneforge. If the possibility of killing children was to cause outrage, certainly that would cause at least the same amount. -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7223
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written Monday, July 3 2006 10:21
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quote:I've done that before. In ways, you can do many things in Spidweb games that are as bad as things in, say, Grand Theft Auto. Massacreing a entire city is just as bad as killing a single child. -------------------- Polaris The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. - H.P. Lovecraft Posts: 164 | Registered: Wednesday, June 14 2006 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Monday, July 3 2006 10:29
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I think I guessed a new spell: Lighting Bolt! ;) EDIT1: Well, it wasn't so hard to find out... EDIT2: quote:>_< [ Monday, July 03, 2006 10:32: Message edited by: MagmaDragoon ] -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Monday, July 3 2006 13:33
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Originally by Marlenny: quote:I said that already. Although I just looked it up and his name is Tyne, and his mother is Igner. Originally by Little Billy Sue: quote:I liked the children in A2 a lot as well. They are some of my favorite NPCs, despite the fact that they rarely provide anything of importance. And I know there's an option to kill a bunch of slith children in the Secret Slith hideout, even though your characters feel guilty about it afterwards. But Geneforge and Avernum are different. In Avernum, you are the good guys, so you aren't supposed to run around killing whole towns. If you decide to do that, it's your call, and good luck if you screw up the game. In Geneforge, you decide who the "good guys" are and wiping out towns of enemy factions is a legitimate tactic, so I understand not having children showing up very often in Geneforge. But please, Jeff, children in A5! Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, July 3 2006 13:45
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quote:From a legal perspective, it isn't: the European version of Fallout, for example, had to be censored to remove all the children. There are genuine issues that game developers face here, much as they shouldn't be. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7067
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written Monday, July 3 2006 17:23
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Well, I was just thinking that there could actually be ingame reason for it. Such as that most people would send there children away from where the fighting's going on. Like on some neutral island where there are no shapers and rebels wouldn't then unleash horrors on them. or possibly just in some isolated hut, who knows? Either that all children go to schools and actually board there.I couldn't say, of course the real reason we don't see children much is because of the out of the game reasons. Now, my thoughts on the graphics of children. Couldn't you just shrink the actual graphics? And then on humans (and certian other one's) you could shrink them then slightly modify them to look more like children. -------------------- "You took awhile to post again. Maybe it was that last knock I gave you?"-The person behind me. Posts: 153 | Registered: Monday, April 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 7143
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written Monday, July 3 2006 18:51
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Killing children is a taboo in RPG's as everyone says. Though I don't get why it is so horrible compared to me running rampant through Mertis in the end of Avernum 1 and killing everything including the pregnant lady since all attack you for some reason instead of running away when you are killing people by the dozens in each turn with no effort. There are also games like Neverwinter Nights which has children, but attacking them deals no damage. -------------------- "After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one." - Cato the Elder (234-149 BC) "The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process." -Kripke "One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly." -Friedich Nietzche Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2245
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written Tuesday, July 4 2006 00:04
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Student of Trinity: quote:Who said anything about 'leaders'? I only made the claim that the Shapers are outnumbered, which they are. quote:Spawners are one of the major factors that ensure that the Rebellion is numerically superior in numbers to the Shapers. I'd dare say that the Shapers were outnumbered on EVERY island. quote:Although I don't see the relevance of leadership, you're forgetting Servile leaders (at least two), and rogue mages (again, two). To be honest, the Rebellion and their creations (who are usually under their control) held at least the west end of the island, and that's being generous. Rogues were also rife near Fort Winston. quote:More than just a few. You find numerous Drayks, Drakkons, Eye Beasts, and Serviles. And you're forgetting Gull Island, which had numerous, immensely powerful Servile leaders. quote:No social order is perfect. The Shaper regime generally reacts to crisis quite well. It made one slip up on Sucia Island, which led to the current mess. Yet up until that point, their system of stifling forbidden knowledge had been successful. Meanwhile, the Shapers have colonized two continents, bringing life and civilization to dry and barren areas. That's nothing to smirk at. If you have a better system to control dangerous Shaper knowledge, propose it. You can't condemn and demand the overthrowing of a current social order, when you don't have a better alternative to replace it with. quote:And in hindsight, this is by far the best solution. The ONLY reason for the Rebellion is because the Shaper Council did not exercise enough control on Sucia. They did not monitor Danette and her buddies closely enough, and they did not destroy the forbidden knowledge quickly enough. Had the Shaper Council been faithful in practicing its ideals of total control, then things would be fine. quote:I disagree that Shapers learn nothing. Shapers as a society have put many mechanisms and practices in place to ensure that order is not lost. Don't shape Drayks, don't shape yourself, don't shape more than you can control, etc. I'm sure that the Shaper individuals learnt these lessons the hard way, and to prevent future mistakes, the Shaper Council put laws in place. quote:While the Takers may look similar to the Shapers in their treatment of Creations, I think they are fundamentally different in a key aspect. Shapers prefer control over power. The Takers prefer power over control. Unlike the Shapers, the Rebel Takers have not learnt (via the hard way), that control is essential when it comes to Shaping creations. The Rebels want chaos... the Shapers want order. [ Tuesday, July 04, 2006 00:40: Message edited by: Waylander ] -------------------- VIVE LA TAKERS! VIVE LA REBELLION! VIVE LA GHALDRING! Posts: 522 | Registered: Friday, November 15 2002 08:00 |