Civil Unions disallowed in ACT

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AuthorTopic: Civil Unions disallowed in ACT
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This is slightly old news, but who cares. From the ABC:

quote:
The Federal Government has gained the support of a Family First Senator to successfully fight off a challenge to its decision to quash ACT laws for same-sex civil unions.

The Opposition and minor parties were challenging the Government's decision to disallow the ACT civil unions law.

Liberal Senator Gary Humphries, a former chief minister of the ACT, crossed the floor and supported the challenge.

"I'm not convinced that there was no alternative to disallowance," Senator Humphries said.

But despite Senator Humphries' move, the motion was defeated because Family First Senator Steve Fielding voted with the Government.

Discuss. I've been following this story fairly closely, so I can probably answer any questions.

[ Tuesday, June 20, 2006 19:55: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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Why?

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

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I really don't see the point of disallowing it. The pair love each other, so why should it not be official?

I'm not for same-sex marriage. A proper marriage, IMO, would be against the tradition that marriage was built around.

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E Equals MC What!!!!
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quote:
Originally written by Freakin' Salmon:

Why?
The Federal Government took the position that Civil Unions as described in the ACT legislation were marriage in all but name, and that the ACT did not have the power to make laws governing marriage.

quote:
Originally written by Sprung:

I really don't see the point of disallowing it. The pair love each other, so why should it not be official?

I'm not for same-sex marriage. A proper marriage, IMO, would be against the tradition that marriage was built around.

As above, the reason Howard and Co. quashed it was because they saw it as being same-sex marriage under another name.

[ Tuesday, June 20, 2006 20:59: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

quote:
Originally written by Freakin' Salmon:

Why?
The Federal Government took the position that Civil Unions as described in the ACT legislation were marriage in all but name, and that the ACT did not have the power to make laws governing marriage.

IMAGE(http://www.thismodernworld.org/arc/1990/90love.gif)

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quote:
Originally written by Sprung:

A proper marriage, IMO, would be against the tradition that marriage was built around.
What tradition was this exactly? Kids?

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quote:
Originally written by Thin Air:

quote:
Originally written by Sprung:

A proper marriage, IMO, would be against the tradition that marriage was built around.
What tradition was this exactly? Kids?

That can mean a result with a family being a full functional element of society. The same-sex marriage hasn't prooved yet to be one. May be they didn't have time to do that, or may be it is unprovable. I didn't want to offend somebody, btw.

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Well then, please define "fully functional element of society".

(No offense taken.)

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Well, this is supposed to be a Christian country...and according to the Bible, God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah because it was full of gay people and other very corrupt doings.

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quote:
Originally written by Cairo Jim:

Well, this is supposed to be a Christian country...and according to the Bible, God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah because it was full of gay people and other very corrupt doings.
This is not true. If you want to explain why some Christians believe homosexuality is a sin, please look elsewhere.

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quote:
Originally written by Thin Air:

quote:
Originally written by Cairo Jim:

Well, this is supposed to be a Christian country...and according to the Bible, God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah because it was full of gay people and other very corrupt doings.
This is not true. If you want to explain why some Christians believe homosexuality is a sin, please look elsewhere.

I can think of two fairly logical explanations for this (Why christians believe this):

1) The church simply made it a sin, as the church said quite some things (in my opinion) which are simply *cough* bull****;

2) It may be something that our very early ancestors already disapproved from. I don't know this and I also don't really believe in this. Maybe we can ask a biologist about what he thinks: can this be an inherited thing or not? Thuryl?

[ Wednesday, June 21, 2006 03:23: Message edited by: Mc 'mini' Thralni ]

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quote:
Originally written by Hurling Frootmig:

quote:
Originally written by Thin Air:

quote:
Originally written by Sprung:

A proper marriage, IMO, would be against the tradition that marriage was built around.
What tradition was this exactly? Kids?

That can mean a result with a family being a full functional element of society. The same-sex marriage hasn't prooved yet to be one. May be they didn't have time to do that, or may be it is unprovable. I didn't want to offend somebody, btw.
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The voices tell me they don't like politics, same-sex marriages and blending both. They like RPG.

Straight marriage is a safe haven for pedophiles and hookers. :rolleyes: I didn't want to offend anybody.
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Haha! Looks like Australia may be just as intolerant as the US on this one! Stick it in your ear, Aussies! :P

All marriages, for purposes of the state, should be civil unions, per TM's comic. "Marriage" is a religious term, and so should remain separate.
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quote:
Originally written by Mc 'mini' Thralni:

quote:
Originally written by Thin Air:

quote:
Originally written by Cairo Jim:

Well, this is supposed to be a Christian country...and according to the Bible, God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah because it was full of gay people and other very corrupt doings.
This is not true. If you want to explain why some Christians believe homosexuality is a sin, please look elsewhere.

I can think of two fairly logical explanations for this (Why christians believe this):

1) The church simply made it a sin, as the church said quite some things (in my opinion) which are simply *cough* bull****;

2) It may be something that our very early ancestors already disapproved from. I don't know this and I also don't really believe in this. Maybe we can ask a biologist about what he thinks: can this be an inherited thing or not? Thuryl?

1) They did not make it a sin, but they took far too much out of context in order to justify it. All that was needed was the phrase that men should not spill their seed, i.e. perform in sexual acts that does not have the potential result of impregnantation.

2) Not likely, if it were so, that line of humanity would hav died out before even the idea of civilization came about.

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Wow, I wouldn't have expected this from Australia. Kind of depressing, really.

Personally, I never really saw the motive for disallowing same-sex marriages. Well, I never saw the motives that made sense... I'm just familiar with the "I'm personally insecure about it" and "I am a slave to my political agenda" motivations.

And then there's that wonderful slippery slope argument, as if people will suddenly start marrying snakes or something. Oh wait. People already do that? Well, that argument fails at life, then.

quote:
Originally written by Mc 'mini' Thralni:

2) It may be something that our very early ancestors already disapproved from. I don't know this and I also don't really believe in this. Maybe we can ask a biologist about what he thinks: can this be an inherited thing or not? Thuryl?
Please, I beg of you, don't go down that road. Any biological debate which Thuryl gets into becomes incoherent to half of the rest of us.

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quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

Personally, I never really saw the motive for disallowing same-sex marriages. Well, I never saw the motives that made sense... I'm just familiar with the "I'm personally insecure about it" and "I am a slave to my political agenda" motivations.
It's pretty simple, really. Ever hear older people complain about how all their friends are getting married and now they feel left out because all the married people only hang around with other married people? There are plenty of people who marry so they can feel superior to unmarried people. The more people are allowed to get married, the fewer people they can feel superior to (and the more all those lovely tax concessions married people enjoy have to be shared around).

quote:
Please, I beg of you, don't go down that road. Any biological debate which Thuryl gets into becomes incoherent to half of the rest of us.
Am I that bad at explaining myself to a lay audience? :(

[ Wednesday, June 21, 2006 05:39: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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Personally, I think that marriage should be open to any two people who wish to partake of it. I defy you to find any place in the Bible that says that marriage is a religious thing. Go ahead and look. It isn't there. The idea that marriage is religious and a sacrament came out of the Catholic church wanting to control all parts of people's lives.

[ Wednesday, June 21, 2006 06:19: Message edited by: Tyran ]

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No, Thuryl, you are not. You are only incoherent for the part of the members which doesn't really care to understand what you say. If they would want to understand it, they would probably try harder to understand it. All the times that Stareye started about magnetisme and all the physics stuff and such, I didn't really try to understand it (unless when it actually interested me), so naturally I didn't understand it.

And I agree with Tyran.

I hate (any) church, with a passion. This for the simple reason that they control people's minds and deprive them of knowing what is the real thing that gets this world rolling.

But I don't want to make this into an other of those religious arguments. Sorry for getting all diverted from the real subject.

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It is already a religious argument, sort of. There is really no argument against same-sex marriage that is not based in religion.

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quote:
Originally written by Drow:

It is already a religious argument, sort of. There is really no argument against same-sex marriage that is not based in religion.
That is why you can technically make a case for that in Australia which has a state religion, but here in the US, where we have separation of church and state, there should be no reason against same-sex marriages. Unfortunately there are too many fundies out there who are offended by what other people do with their own lives. I don't see what the big deal is. How does it hurt anyone if two people of the same sex get married, anyway?

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Well, apart from the fact that it could get your old grand mother a heart attack, its for the president in office (Bush at the moment), a very wise thing to do, politically spoken. He'll have masses of people which agree with him and he will need that if he wants to stay in office.

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quote:
Originally written by United States of Tyranica:

Personally, I think that marriage should be open to any two people who wish to partake of it. I defy you to find any place in the Bible that says that marriage is a religious thing. Go ahead and look. It isn't there. The idea that marriage is religious and a sacrament came out of the Catholic church wanting to control all parts of people's lives.
The torah shebaal peh give countless laws on the subject, but no, not in the Bible directly. Your last point is patently false.
quote:
Originally written by Tyran:

separation of church and state
I defy you to find any place in the constitution that says that there should be a seperation of church and state. Go ahead and look. It isn't there.

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