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*stares, dumbfounded, then breaks into raucous laughter*

...are you kidding me?! Your entire debate has practically been how Shapers are evil, heartless Nazis and how the Rebels are saintly heroes forced to do evil by the bad guys, repeated over and over and over, despite evidence and good sense to the contrary, with a side of how Outsiders are the equivalent of Nazi supporters. Then you claim that you don't repeat the same assertions constantly, even when soundly refuted? Ha! And I thought the Rebels were hypocrites!

FYI, regarding your little jab at me, you simply disagreeing with me does not make the argument 'soundly refuted', no matter how much you say otherwise. At best, it makes it contested.

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I only hope this thread doesn't turn into another "What is better, Shapers or Rebels" debate. The UBB can only take so much... :rolleyes:
Long live the Shapers.

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Artila-ry Clinton.

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Now that I've spent two months working reasonably hard on Geneforge 5, I can start posting some monthly updates about it.As time goes on, I'm talk about the interface upgrades (considerable), the game system and spell system upgrades, and all the little things that will go into finishing this series.

This will indeed be the last game in the Geneforge saga. At last, you can bring the war to an end. Coming up with a plausible way for one lone person to help end this enormous conflict has been very difficult. The complexity of the game and the storyline is making me a bit dizzy. Still, I think I have it under control.

The storyline and game structure will be much closer to Geneforge 1 and 2. You will wander around and interact with five (FIVE!) different factions. Eventually, you can choose one to fight for. There are all of the options you probably predicted from the previous games, and others that might take you by surprise.

You will start, as usual, as a lone Shaper/lifecrafter. You will be able to choose to be either a Shaper character (the old three choices) or as one of the six different rebel classes. Yes, I am putting in the "missing" sixth character class from the rebel side.

The spell system will be mostly the same, but I am completely reworking how buffs work to make them more interesting and player friendly. I'll go into this more in later months. Suffice it to say for now that the "OK, this fight is tough, I'll put 12 buffs on every character. Zzzz." system had to go.

The big design question for me now is how to handle the "evolved" versions of the creations. Geneforge 4 had stronger versions of creations that started dying immediately so you had to use them quickly. They appear to not have been at all popular. I want to find a better way to approach this. (Note: Making creations during combat is not an option.)

I hope to release the game for the Mac in November. Since I've been making good progress, this seems doable.

- Jeff Vogel

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You're just saying that because you were intimidated by his massive codpiece.

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You just haven't drunk enough to appreciate them.

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So you admit that the Outsider loyalists (apart from the two year olds, the little dears) have free will, and know that their actions assist in the continuation of an era of oppression and genocide. Nice to know that you're willing to concede that point.

As for the two year olds, you're right. I don't support the targeting of two year olds, as they aren't enemies of the Rebels. But if they happen to get killed while their parents are being targeted, that's just tough. Stuff like that happens in war all the time.

You don't think two year olds were killed in the carpet bombings of Dresden, the nuclear bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, the napalming of Vietnam, the bombing campaign against Serbia, the artillery bombardments and air strikes against the West Bank and Lebanon...? I could go on and on, but I don't think I need to drill the point home with a sledgehammer.

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Nice to see that you're willing to concede another point. So rebellion against the Shapers is justified, nay, a moral responsibility?

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Shaper loyalists must die.

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Like the Germans under the Nazi regime? The people get the government that they deserve. If the Shaper loyalists refuse to stand up and fight against the draconian policies of their government while supporting genocide and enslavement both materialistically and in spirit, then they deserve everything they get.

Do you think my Slavic ancestors in the camps cried when German 'civilians' were killed in the indiscriminant aerial bombardment of Germany? And no, this isn't an appeal to emotion, it's just a simple observation. If you and your family are being exterminated and enslaved, the fact that a few 'civilians' who either implicitly or explicitly supported your extermination were killed in the fight for your freedom is the least of your worries.

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Haha, good stuff. So I can construct bombs for terrorists, but as long as I'm not the one who actually detonates them and kills kaffir, I'm absolved of blame.

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False. It is not genocide to target those who are actively or passively enslaving and destroying your people. The fact that they happen to be part of a nation or political group is incidental (nice try, Diki).

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It is not genocide to target Shaper loyalists, any more than it was genocide for the Yanks to blow up Nazis and Nazi sympathisers. And if anyone gets in the way, tough titty for them!

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I think Geneforge 5 should have new skills and it should end with the drakons separating from the Rebellion and destroying both the rebels and the shapers.

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What did I ever do

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Diprosopus = Troll

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That explains a lot, yes. Thanks for the warning.

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