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How strange...bug perhaps?? in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 19:01 Profile Homepage #3
The bug's intermittent. Try it during a different phase of the moon, maybe? If it fails consistently, well, grin and bear it, I guess.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
How strange...bug perhaps?? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 18:12 Profile Homepage #1
There's a known bug with the standard editor regarding the importing of large towns. Try using the 3D Editor.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
How strange...bug perhaps?? in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 18:12 Profile Homepage #1
There's a known bug with the standard editor regarding the importing of large towns. Try using the 3D Editor.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Hey Alorael in General
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 17:52 Profile Homepage #16
We really could have done without the above post.

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Blades of Geneforge in Geneforge Series
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 17:20 Profile Homepage #33
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Ambrosia Software also is extremely different in many other ways. It is far easier to make an EV plug-in than a BoA scenario.
That's true if you just want to add a few missions. For plugins that add new ships or weapons (i.e. most large plugins) you need to do a hell of a lot more graphical work than you do for BoE.

But now we're going off-topic.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Blades of Geneforge in Geneforge 2
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 17:20 Profile Homepage #33
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Ambrosia Software also is extremely different in many other ways. It is far easier to make an EV plug-in than a BoA scenario.
That's true if you just want to add a few missions. For plugins that add new ships or weapons (i.e. most large plugins) you need to do a hell of a lot more graphical work than you do for BoE.

But now we're going off-topic.

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Bahssikava released! in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 16:32 Profile Homepage #74
Go south and talk to Khassper -- he'll point you in the right direction.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Blades of Geneforge in Geneforge Series
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 15:36 Profile Homepage #31
It's probably to do with the fact that BoE/BoA has a large pre-established canon in the Exile/Avernum trilogy, and also the fact that there are a very small number of well-respected designers who actually work within the Exile/Avernum universe, which tends to make their ideas the gold standard.

(If you make scenarios that are tangentially linked to the Exile/Avernum continuity or outside it entirely, as plenty of excellent designers do, well, then obviously nobody minds what direction you take the plot in.)

[ Monday, March 07, 2005 15:37: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Blades of Geneforge in Geneforge 2
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 15:36 Profile Homepage #31
It's probably to do with the fact that BoE/BoA has a large pre-established canon in the Exile/Avernum trilogy, and also the fact that there are a very small number of well-respected designers who actually work within the Exile/Avernum universe, which tends to make their ideas the gold standard.

(If you make scenarios that are tangentially linked to the Exile/Avernum continuity or outside it entirely, as plenty of excellent designers do, well, then obviously nobody minds what direction you take the plot in.)

[ Monday, March 07, 2005 15:37: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

--------------------
My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Concentrated Linearity Debate (New Voices Welcome to Participate and Vote) in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 15:20 Profile Homepage #38
quote:
Yes, Greek plays using Deus ex machina devices are pretty much the textbook example of poor plotting. Not all of them used that device, and the ones who did were soundly ridiculed for it, both at the time and later.
Euripides' Medea may not have been immensely popular in its time, but I'd hardly call it poorly-written.

And even if not every example is so obvious, a large proportion of great literature is about the futility of human endeavour in the face of fate. Look at Macbeth, for example -- interpreting it as a cautionary tale about ambition, as many modern critics do, is missing the point entirely.

quote:
Originally written by DreamGuy:

And trying to clarify that it's impossible to make BoA games nonlinear and still dramatic but maybe it's possible in other games is still wrong, because there are no technical limitations in BoA that affect that sort of thing.
As I said, I don't disagree with you on this point -- I was just clarifying the point Alec was trying to make.

quote:
And, heck, the examples of linearity we've been talking about aren't really questions of not having the time to build in options. The designers specifically spent time coding things to remove options from the players.
As has been mentioned in previous posts in this thread, when designers here talk about "linearity" they mean it in terms of plot rather than gameplay.

A non-linear plot has advantages and disadvantages compared to a linear one, but the former almost invariably requires more time and effort to make it really high-quality, and I'd rather see a designer release two linear scenarios than one non-linear one.

Restrictive gameplay, as far as I'm concerned, is a good thing, at least up to a point; if anything is possible, nothing is interesting.

quote:
Extensive time and effort was taken to make the whole things extremely linear and exactly the way the programmer wanted, going so far as to turn off spells, make spells that are normally effective in certain situations completely ineffectual there so that a plot point can be shoved in the player's face, and so forth.
I'm really not sure what to say to you if you hated the Tunnels sequence in Bahssikava. This seems to be a matter of personal preference. Apparently your dislike of it rests on the fact that the behaviour of the party's spells in that situation isn't consistent with the way they'd normally work (i.e. they don't work when they normally would). As far as I'm concerned, it's more important for a system to be interesting than for it to be consistent, and to me, Tunnels was interesting.

quote:
And, for crying out loud, restricting the combat down to only one option is not "challenging," especially since the option you end up doing is not only blindingly obvious and the expected norm (haste/slash/heal, repeat) but even frequently spelled out to you on screen (go into combat mode now... look for something in the southwest to stop the ghosts, etc.)
This may be a somewhat reasonable criticism of Bahssikava (even more so in the earlier beta versions than in the final release). But if so, the problem is in the method, not the aim -- forcing strategies other than the normally optimal ones is a good thing, and if Bahssikava doesn't always do that, that shouldn't be taken as an indictment of restrictive combat as a whole. You can hardly argue that the strategies required for battles in Canopy are "blindingly obvious and the expected norm", for example.

quote:
But then I'm repeating what was already explained in the emails. It's a rather simple concept to grasp, so I don't get why it's such a difficulty, other than sheer stubborn self-interest.
It's a bit rich to accuse designers of "self-interest" when they're contributing scenarios to the community and you're not.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Turn off Light (in dungeon) in Blades of Avernum Editor
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 15:01 Profile Homepage #8
Creatures that breathe darkness don't actually make places dark -- it's just unblockable damage.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Turn off Light (in dungeon) in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 15:01 Profile Homepage #8
Creatures that breathe darkness don't actually make places dark -- it's just unblockable damage.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
HLPM v1.1.2 released in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 14:51 Profile Homepage #14
quote:
Originally written by VCH:

Is there some way you could fight your own party. Somehow a duplicate of each character?
Somewhat. You can copy over stats but not items. I'm going to be really annoyed if anyone releases a scenario that does this before I get the chance to.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Which OS you use? in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, March 7 2005 03:50 Profile Homepage #4
10.3, surely, as 1.0.3 predates the Internet.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Who are you??? in General
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 23:48 Profile Homepage #64
Not judging by his profile, he isn't. There aren't too many girls named John.

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Custom Floor/Terrain Special Object Templates in Blades of Avernum Editor
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 23:39 Profile Homepage #0
I noticed custom creature and item special object script templates on Drakey's site, but none for floors and terrains. Since making the templates is just a matter of pulling lines out of the manual and removing the descriptive stuff, I took a few minutes to make the following templates:

//Custom Floor Template
//Note: all fields are filled in with their default values
//Fields with no listed default are commented out and marked with an x

begindefinefloor NUMBER;
clear;
fl_name = "";
//fl_which_sheet = x;
//fl_which_icon = x;
//fl_icon_adjust = x;
//fl_ed_which_sheet = x;
//fl_ed_which_icon = x;
//fl_ed_icon_adjust = x;
fl_blocked = 0;
fl_step_sound = -1;
fl_light_radius = 0;
fl_floor_height_pixels = 0;
fl_special_property = 0;
fl_special_strength = 0;
fl_is_water = 0;
fl_is_floor = 0;
fl_is_ground = 0;
fl_is_rough = 0;
fl_fly_over = 0;
//fl_shortcut_key = x;
fl_anim_steps = 0;
fl_shimmers = 0;
fl_out_fight_town_used = 1000;

//Custom Terrain Template
//Note: all fields are filled in with their default values
//Fields with no listed default are commented out and marked with an x

begindefineterrain NUMBER;
clear;
te_name = "";
te_default_script = "Unused";
//te_which_sheet = x;
//te_which_icon = x;
//te_icon_adjust = x;
//te_ed_which_sheet = x;
//te_ed_which_icon = x;
//te_ed_icon_adjust = x;
te_cutaway_which_sheet = -1;
//te_cutaway_which_icon = x;
//te_cutaway_icon_adjust = x;
te_icon_offset_x = 0;
te_icon_offset_y = 0;
te_second_icon = -1;
te_second_icon_offset_x = 0;
te_second_icon_offset_y = 0;
te_cutaway_second_icon = -1;
te_anim_steps = 0;
te_move_block_n = 0;
te_move_block_w = 0;
te_move_block_s = 0;
te_move_block_e = 0;
te_look_block_n = 0;
te_look_block_w = 0;
te_look_block_s = 0;
te_look_block_e = 0;
te_blocks_view_n = 0;
te_blocks_view_w = 0;
te_blocks_view_s = 0;
te_blocks_view_e = 0;
te_height_adj_pixels = 0;
te_suppress_floor = 0;
te_light_radius = 0;
te_step_sound = -1;
//te_shortcut_key = x;
te_crumble_type = 0;
te_terrain_to_crumble_to = 0;
te_beam_hit_type = 0;
te_hidden_town_terrain = -1;
te_swap_terrain = -1;
te_is_bridge = 0;
te_is_road = 0;
te_can_look_at = 0;
te_special_property = 0;
te_special_strength = 0;
Drakey, feel free to put these up.

Oh, and if anyone spots any mistakes or typos, be sure to reply.

[ Sunday, March 06, 2005 23:42: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Custom Floor/Terrain Special Object Templates in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 23:39 Profile Homepage #0
I noticed custom creature and item special object script templates on Drakey's site, but none for floors and terrains. Since making the templates is just a matter of pulling lines out of the manual and removing the descriptive stuff, I took a few minutes to make the following templates:

//Custom Floor Template
//Note: all fields are filled in with their default values
//Fields with no listed default are commented out and marked with an x

begindefinefloor NUMBER;
clear;
fl_name = "";
//fl_which_sheet = x;
//fl_which_icon = x;
//fl_icon_adjust = x;
//fl_ed_which_sheet = x;
//fl_ed_which_icon = x;
//fl_ed_icon_adjust = x;
fl_blocked = 0;
fl_step_sound = -1;
fl_light_radius = 0;
fl_floor_height_pixels = 0;
fl_special_property = 0;
fl_special_strength = 0;
fl_is_water = 0;
fl_is_floor = 0;
fl_is_ground = 0;
fl_is_rough = 0;
fl_fly_over = 0;
//fl_shortcut_key = x;
fl_anim_steps = 0;
fl_shimmers = 0;
fl_out_fight_town_used = 1000;

//Custom Terrain Template
//Note: all fields are filled in with their default values
//Fields with no listed default are commented out and marked with an x

begindefineterrain NUMBER;
clear;
te_name = "";
te_default_script = "Unused";
//te_which_sheet = x;
//te_which_icon = x;
//te_icon_adjust = x;
//te_ed_which_sheet = x;
//te_ed_which_icon = x;
//te_ed_icon_adjust = x;
te_cutaway_which_sheet = -1;
//te_cutaway_which_icon = x;
//te_cutaway_icon_adjust = x;
te_icon_offset_x = 0;
te_icon_offset_y = 0;
te_second_icon = -1;
te_second_icon_offset_x = 0;
te_second_icon_offset_y = 0;
te_cutaway_second_icon = -1;
te_anim_steps = 0;
te_move_block_n = 0;
te_move_block_w = 0;
te_move_block_s = 0;
te_move_block_e = 0;
te_look_block_n = 0;
te_look_block_w = 0;
te_look_block_s = 0;
te_look_block_e = 0;
te_blocks_view_n = 0;
te_blocks_view_w = 0;
te_blocks_view_s = 0;
te_blocks_view_e = 0;
te_height_adj_pixels = 0;
te_suppress_floor = 0;
te_light_radius = 0;
te_step_sound = -1;
//te_shortcut_key = x;
te_crumble_type = 0;
te_terrain_to_crumble_to = 0;
te_beam_hit_type = 0;
te_hidden_town_terrain = -1;
te_swap_terrain = -1;
te_is_bridge = 0;
te_is_road = 0;
te_can_look_at = 0;
te_special_property = 0;
te_special_strength = 0;
Drakey, feel free to put these up.

Oh, and if anyone spots any mistakes or typos, be sure to reply.

[ Sunday, March 06, 2005 23:42: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Monster/Puzzle/Item Thread in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 23:16 Profile Homepage #17
I suppose you could drain the wielder's HP to 0 every round in the START_STATE or something, but that would be obnoxious.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Monster/Puzzle/Item Thread in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 23:08 Profile Homepage #15
Unfortunately, there's no way for a weapon to call a script on hitting a target, so that idea couldn't be implemented as a wieldable weapon.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Concentrated Linearity Debate (New Voices Welcome to Participate and Vote) in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 23:05 Profile Homepage #28
Calm down, ST. Your preferences are, of course, as valid as those of any other player -- and if you ever find the time, I'd be very interested to see the sort of scenario you'd design. It's quite likely that I'd enjoy it considerably.

We're now replying to DreamGuy, who has indeed told us that we're designing the wrong way and ought to change.

[ Sunday, March 06, 2005 23:15: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Monster/Puzzle/Item Thread in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 21:03 Profile Homepage #12
The Scalpel might be a bit much too -- remember, Sharpshooter will also affect its damage just as much as First Aid does.

[ Sunday, March 06, 2005 21:03: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
4543 in General
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 19:36 Profile Homepage #4
549 10.

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Monster/Puzzle/Item Thread in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 19:34 Profile Homepage #10
And mine will have weapons based on Tool Use and Potion Making, rounding out the set of items based on less-useful skills.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
HLPM v1.1.2 released in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 19:31 Profile Homepage #3
Also, SW's Finns are "inexplicable", not "explicable".

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
HLPM v1.1.2 released in Blades of Avernum
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, March 6 2005 19:04 Profile Homepage #1
The only improvement I can think of is adding a greater variety of items to the shops, especially for higher levels. Given that there's a limit to how high-level a scenario can realistically be, though, that's not a huge priority.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00

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