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The Afterlife in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Wednesday, April 26 2006 11:36 Profile #37
Oblivion (as I understand it) is like eternal sleep, with no possibility of waking up.

Reincarnation would effectively destroy personality, I suppose, but at least I still am. Someone can suffer massive amnesia and forget everything that ever happened to them, but they still continue to exist and experience life.

Therefore I shall pronounce an official edit to my "do anything" version of the afterlife on the first page of this topic. After I get bored (few hundred years or so) I snap my fingers again and I'm reincarnated with no memories. Repeat forever.

EDIT: Too late, ADoS. I rest in the knowledge that after a few hundred years of that I would go insane anyway, and that if God exists and is that sadistic we're all doomed anyway.

[ Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:39: Message edited by: I Would Have Been Your Daddy ]

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
The Afterlife in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Wednesday, April 26 2006 11:26 Profile #34
Reincarnation would be a handy way out of that eternal, forever-existence. As long as we do not regain our memories, it is as though we just came into being.

Oblivion freaks me out, personally, but I think that it's what happens.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Yom HaShoa in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Wednesday, April 26 2006 10:53 Profile #24
My flamefest sense is tingling...

But anyway, isn't it slightly irrational to believe that everyone in the world who mentions the Holocaust is part of a conspiracy? That EVERY SINGLE PERSON who was alive during the time and remembers it is lying?

If you posess such a distrust for historians and eyewitnesses in general, then why do you not question the Civil War? That Russia was once a communist country? That a man landed on the moon? Why do you not question every single other historic event that you do not remember?

EDIT: Yaaargh this thing goes fast. I am responding to Yours Sincerely, the Bogeyman, by the way, to clear up any confusion.

[ Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:55: Message edited by: I Would Have Been Your Daddy ]

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Power Corrupts in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Wednesday, April 26 2006 01:28 Profile #151
quote:
Originally written by GremlinJoe:

Why you all hate me is also a mystery. Have I ever once pretended to be better than any of you? God himself has more reason to sent me to hell than any other person. My being a loyal soldier cost me the better half of my soul. I'm not like all those preachers, who also by the way don't like me much, All despise me for my sufffering and condemn me for the things I had no choice for.

If anyone here tries to act better than me its everyone who calls me psycho. I gave up most of my life in defense of others. I was repaid with scorn and disgrace. There is no geneva convention rights where I'm from.

Jesus Christ was the only one ever to not use me up and throw me away for my years of sacrifice. He personally saved me when he broke me free from that place. He even helps me with what I live with on the inside sometimes. You of all people should be willing to understand what its like to be sent to a bad place. Made to do Bad things. And then be abandoned in a place like Exile. Picture torture occuring.

I may be a psycho but I am a friend of Jesus. He's my friend too. He can also be your friend if you only let him.
None of us hate you. Why we are acting with general scorn is because this is (or was, at least) a debate topic. You posted, and, offering no reasons whatsoever to justify your beliefs, started preaching.

This may have been an honest mistake. If so, then please either debate your beliefs with reasons and arguments, or create a new topic to preach in.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Are Geneforge and Avernum related? in Avernum 4
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Wednesday, April 26 2006 01:11 Profile #9
Some really, really big castraphotic event would have to occur to turn Avernum's four continents into the two continents of Geneforge.

And how would every species on the surface and below die out, to be replaced with new ones?

Maybe there was a Vahnatai nuclear war :eek: .

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
The Afterlife in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Wednesday, April 26 2006 00:56 Profile #24
Putting aside all my beliefs of whether there is an afterlife or not, my ideal one would be where I could do anything I wanted.

I want ice cream? *snap my fingers* Free ice cream. I want to wander the earth as an invisible ghost? *snap* I want to communicate with other dead people? *snap* I want to be in a neverending soccer game? *snap*

Basically, it would be where there were no preset rules, other than perhaps occupees not harming each other, and we could just do whatever we wanted, forever.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Question 1: Energy in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Wednesday, April 26 2006 00:49 Profile #15
I'm a fan of hydrogen fuel cells. All we need now is a reliable source of hydrogen.

There was an article in Discover about a huge factory that made usable oil from KFC's turkey guts. Gross and smelly, but it worked.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Power Corrupts in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Tuesday, April 25 2006 12:16 Profile #142
quote:
Originally written by Alex:

quote:
Originally written by Kuranes-:

I think we might have had this discussion before. "Holy" means filled with holes.
Does this mean women are holier than men? :(
I declare this thread officially lost.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Registration code question. in Avernum 4
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Tuesday, April 25 2006 11:27 Profile #1
If you ever needed to reinstall A4, just email Jeff. He might ask for your previous unlocking code, so save the email, but he would be more than happy to give you another code.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Scenario Processing in Blades of Exile
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Tuesday, April 25 2006 11:20 Profile #27
Not that I'm an ultra-experienced designer, but I like designing dialouge. Whenever I get bored by a particularly tedious bit of code or town design I write some colorful dialogue.

It's like writing a really, really short story. I come up with interesting pasts and present them. When I can't think of any stories, I use humor. I had a terrificly sarcastic bartender in a truly horrible scenario called The Arena, and a magnificently insane person named Mad Ned in a version of the scenario I'm working on now that I ditched. Oh well.

And yes, incremental alpha testing is vital. Otherwise I would be depressed to the point of giving up by the sheer volume of fatal bugs :) .

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Power Corrupts in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Tuesday, April 25 2006 11:09 Profile #138
You don't need to be a moderator to yell at people. Only a moderator can actually act on it, of course, but yell all you want ;) .

Okay, here's my official position.

If we remove all assumptions about God other than the fact that he created the universe, the argument becomes very, very hard, if not impossible, to argue. As I pointed out before, the atheists say "Where did God come from?" and the theists say "Where did the Big Bang come from?".

You may think that there is still evolution to debate about. However, as was also pointed out earlier, God could have easily created evolution. Any other question can simply be answered by a "God does not care." or "On a whim."

How am I able to still believe in atheism on this level? It comes down to a personal-belief stalemate. I, personally, believe in Occam's Razor. Something not existing is fundamentally simpler than something existing, if there is no evidence either way. If you don't believe in Occam's Razor, like Student of Trinity, then there is an equal chance that God exists and an equal chance that he doesn't. I claim no irrefutable evidence that God does not exist at this level.

It is entirely possible that there is something I did not think of or that I am simply wrong on a point in this post. If I am, please point it out and I shall continue debating the question of God with no assumptions.

However, if there is not, then I would ask Dolphin to PM me, if not Christianity, what she does believe so we have a solid base to debate about. I would then continue my separate arguments against Ash and Dolphin and leave this thread to GremlinJoe and TM.

EDIT: I'm not implying that the hypothetical immortal criminal would not suffer at all, but that he would not suffer especially more than a good and law-biding person would.

[ Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:11: Message edited by: I Would Have Been Your Daddy ]

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
A Few Advance Notes On Geneforge 4 in Geneforge Series
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Tuesday, April 25 2006 01:52 Profile #220
An excellent point.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
A Few Advance Notes On Geneforge 4 in Geneforge Series
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Tuesday, April 25 2006 01:09 Profile #218
quote:
Originally written by Mr.Bookworm:

EDIT: The Shapers, in their darkest hour, will let you join if your a Servile, because they need everyone they can get. They wouldn't be as nice to you, but you could join. And betray your own kind.
This doesn't make any logical sense, though. Why would an intelligent servile fight for himself to be killed and imprisoned? The only way I see is that they might bribe you to agree to fight for them by promising not to kill you, but then the killing of your own kind would make being allying with loyal shapers even less appealing.

[ Tuesday, April 25, 2006 01:54: Message edited by: I Would Have Been Your Daddy ]

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Stereotypically Yours in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Tuesday, April 25 2006 01:01 Profile #48
I've found a stereotype: incredible annoyingness. I've been attacked by two oldbies in the same topic :D .

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Power Corrupts in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Tuesday, April 25 2006 00:47 Profile #131
quote:
Originally written by GremlinJoe:

The only reason to believe in God is out of love for him.
You have deep love for a guy in a book someone told you to read? Love enough to worship him? And you accept that love as evidence of God?

This is why some people in this topic are yelling about blind faith and that stuff.
quote:
Originally written by Dolphin.:

I first commented on you post because you said the questions you presented disproved the existence of God, and in the end we started discussing various religious beliefs.

It wasn't my intent to derail the current discussion, so if it interferes with what others are discussing I'm fine with letting it go.
Well, we seem to be discussing it in here now, despite ADoS's wishes. :D

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Power Corrupts in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 13:33 Profile #123
Yay.

I've realized that the stuff that I said didn't really relate to the topic, and that I was rather hasty in jumping between a no-religion god, and a religion-god. I'm used to the idea of god coming with those ideas, too, and it's hard to separate the two. Apology accepted. I'll relate to the topic from now on.

EDIT: UBB's finally cracked. This post makes this topic the top in the General forum view, but not the view of the entire boards. Huh?

[ Monday, April 24, 2006 13:36: Message edited by: I Would Have Been Your Daddy ]

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Death Penalty in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 13:28 Profile #22
On the Lyceum, in an old archived post (Yes, I spend my time digging through Lyceum archives) Measle said something about a bath of sesame oil triggering every pain nerve in the body at once.

That would really, really, really suck.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Power Corrupts in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 13:10 Profile #120
I apologize for this post so soon after I swore to leave the thread, but Ash isn't permitting PMs and I couldn't resist.

If God is all about forgiveness, then why is there Hell?

Please allow PMs so we can argue away from this thread. Thanks.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Power Corrupts in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 12:31 Profile #116
Okay. I thought that this topic was about that and that definition of God. Dolphin used the Bible as an example. It appears, however, that I have been delusional. My apologies.

A less personal attack might've informed that this was the case sooner. But if people in the thread want me to leave the thread, I'll leave the thread.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Power Corrupts in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 12:22 Profile #114
Sheesh. What have I done but argue in a debate?

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Favorite Words in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 12:09 Profile #34
I love "misunderestimated" myself.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Power Corrupts in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 12:02 Profile #112
quote:
Originally written by Dolphin.:

In this case we are starting to debate whether God is cruel or kind, and not whether God exists. Even if God does his own smiting in one form or anther that in no way has anything to do with his existence.

I don't, however, see this a corruption. Humans do something bad they suffer, we all do. Using the bible as the example; if God is thought to be our father in some sense I suppose it would be like punishing your child. Though I dislike using this example, as I really don't support such theories.

If God works with us using our karma to judge our behavior, and determine where we go next it is somewhat easier to explain why bad things happen to good people. A drop at a time will fill a bucked over time.
Suppose a person decides to overthrow the government. They are successful and enjoy a happy lifetime of luxury and opressing people as a dictator.
Presumably after this person dies they will go to hell, and be punished for their misdeeds.
This raises the question: Why would God wait until someone dies to punish them? He could just as easily do it while they're alive. Yet he doesn't. There are numerous records, in history and today, of criminals that were never caught and never punished; dictators that opressed happily for the rest of their lives.

Now suppose, in the future, someone discovers how to live forever. Perhaps cryogenics work; perhaps it's a miracle drug; it doesn't matter. Suppose it becomes widespread. If one
of the people that lives forever becomes a criminal and is never caught, when is God going to punish him?

Aside from that argument, the whole position feels rather phony to me. God says "Do what you want, but if you do something bad, I'll punish you." What is the general purpose of punishment? An incentive not to do something. The police fine criminals as an incentive to not commit the crime again. Punishing us isn't going to do any good if we're stuck in hell and can't reform or fix our mistakes.

It seems to me that "they get punished after they die" is very convenient for the clergy and preachers; they don't have to provide an example of divine punishment since no one can see what happens after we die.
quote:
Originally by Dolphin.:
That is really not realistic. I wouldn't want all the mistakes I've made in life or all the things I've endured to have never happened. Our experiences make us who we are. Going back to the bible as an example. They say laziness is a sin, as is sex before marriage, by the logic you have offered God should constantly nudge us away from such things. Since the bible says that sinning will lead to suffering in the thereafter God would have to save them from their sinning.

In addition everyone perception of suffering is different. I don't see a man stubbing his toe on a rock as suffering, and to some people being five pounds overweight is suffering. I suppose God could change a person's self image or confidence in such away that they wouldn't care that they were slightly overweight, but the deeper that gets the less you are you.
Okay. The rock was a metaphoric example. Let's switch the "falling flat on his face" with "dying". Let's switch the rock with "cancer". The man contracts cancer and dies. I trust that you would prefer not to die? We cannot learn from our mistakes (if indeed there's anything to be learned by catching a disease) if we're dead.

If God does not protect us from trivial mistakes, he should at least protect us from deadly ones. I'm not talking suicide, which clearly falls under "free will." I'm not talking being shot, which falls under others's free will. Cancer is nobody's fault.

As a side note, if God created everything, why did God create deadly diseases?

Sorry for not addressing's ADoS's argument. My full mental energy is devoted to arguing with Dolphin right now. Maybe in the morning.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Stereotypically Yours in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 11:07 Profile #19
All the cool kids have stereotypes. I need to get one.

Stereotype me!

EDIT: You know, paradoxically this is actually a stereotypical post. I don't have a stereotype, so posting in no stereotype is actually stereotypical of me.

Shame on me. I should try to be more unique.

[ Monday, April 24, 2006 12:08: Message edited by: I Would Have Been Your Daddy ]

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
A Few Advance Notes On Geneforge 4 in Geneforge Series
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 11:02 Profile #211
The transforming of Geneforge into a soap opera is a general no-no.

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00
Xylgham udwlnit skretcko!1!! in General
Grain of Salt
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
 written Monday, April 24 2006 01:53 Profile #36
Hey, I like Galactic Core.

But anyway, Dikiyoba, my Macintosh Powerbook G4 fails to open your site (the loading bar never moves) but my old, old iMac opens it fine. Any clue what could be causing this?

[ Monday, April 24, 2006 01:53: Message edited by: I Would Have Been Your Daddy ]

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But I don't want to ride the elevator.
Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00

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