Question 1: Energy
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 20:33
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As part of a series of 10 questions on broad scale global problems, I offer today's question to the Spiderweb community: How do we meet the energy needs of the developing world? -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6975
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 20:52
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with wind,water and rubish power Posts: 80 | Registered: Wednesday, March 29 2006 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 20:55
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A good first step would be "not hogging all of it." -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 20:58
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I agree, we shouldn't waste the resources. How should we encourage people not to use too much? -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6912
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 20:59
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Nuclear power (electricity) Hydrogen engines, alcohol engine (fuel) Edit:I don’t think the problem is hogging it all(well it is but that’s 2 human to stop). I think the goal should be more to base our selves on abundant safe to use resources. Particularly ditching petroleum and coal. Hydrogen is in huge abundance and unfortunately so is uranium and plutonium. [ Tuesday, April 25, 2006 21:04: Message edited by: rantalot ] Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6975
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 21:01
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by not posting topics on this board for people to read while useing power in there computers :rolleyes: :P :D Posts: 80 | Registered: Wednesday, March 29 2006 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 21:27
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Brazil built up ethanol fuels for cars by subsidizing the industry for years so energy and auto manufacturs were assured that a market would exist. By the time the Brazilian government could no longer afford to subsidize it, the infrastructure was in place. Companies could make ethanol cheap enough to beat gasoline prices and there were enough flex fuel cars to use it. It's a pity that we don't do it. Detroit is building flex fuel cars and trucks, but outside of the midwest and northeast there aren't many places to buy it. Reuseable resource fuels will save on transportation costs to get to remote areas. I wouldn't mind the computer powered by cranking it for a few minutes at a time instead of line current. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6975
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 21:30
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yes this is a good point if we had these fules we would cause much less polution as well because its all natral stuff Posts: 80 | Registered: Wednesday, March 29 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6912
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 21:34
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quote:It seems so odd that we have the ability to grow something that is almost like oil and we don’t. This could give countries a strategic advantage. Germany had huge problems due its lack of oil during the later parts of WW2. I would think that the military divisions of countries would be all over this new technology. Posts: 89 | Registered: Wednesday, March 15 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5450
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 23:12
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Invade Iraq. NO WAIT Solar. -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. :ph34r: Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1092
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 23:19
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Go nuclear! Hydrogen would work, but that also could go nuclear (as in a hydrogen bomb scenario). -------------------- When you think you can't get any lower in life and hit rock bottom, God hands you a shovel. Why should I say somthin intelligent when idiots like you make me look intelligent in the first place. Posts: 615 | Registered: Friday, May 3 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3441
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 23:47
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Obviously, this won't work everywhere, but I'm a big fan of geothermal energy. -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1092
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written Tuesday, April 25 2006 23:58
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What I would like to see is ice being imported from Antartcia, although it is internationaly illegal. It would release quite a few strains on fresh water, as Antarctica has most of the worlds largest amount of fresh water. That was brought up by the fact that any thermal energy plants require an enormous amount of water as part of the process, as far as I understand. -------------------- When you think you can't get any lower in life and hit rock bottom, God hands you a shovel. Why should I say somthin intelligent when idiots like you make me look intelligent in the first place. Posts: 615 | Registered: Friday, May 3 2002 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 00:05
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Nuclear war. A smaller population means more energy to go around per person! -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1092
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 00:06
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As in an animation I saw that was based on Nuclear winter after a war, very funny. Support Nuclear Enrgy today! -------------------- When you think you can't get any lower in life and hit rock bottom, God hands you a shovel. Why should I say somthin intelligent when idiots like you make me look intelligent in the first place. Posts: 615 | Registered: Friday, May 3 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6652
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 00:49
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I'm a fan of hydrogen fuel cells. All we need now is a reliable source of hydrogen. There was an article in Discover about a huge factory that made usable oil from KFC's turkey guts. Gross and smelly, but it worked. -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1092
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 00:50
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I've seen an article on how two guys modified their car so it ran on recycled chip oil, and they managed to drive across the U.S. with no problems. -------------------- When you think you can't get any lower in life and hit rock bottom, God hands you a shovel. Why should I say somthin intelligent when idiots like you make me look intelligent in the first place. Posts: 615 | Registered: Friday, May 3 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3441
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 00:52
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Yeah I've heard a similar story. They would collect used cooking oil from local restaurants. I'm not sure how it works chemically, but the car ran. -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 01:00
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You can't just put vegetable oil in your car's fuel tank and expect it to run, but if you have a vehicle with a diesel engine, vegetable oil can be used as diesel fuel. The trouble is, it doesn't burn as cleanly as actual diesel and can mess up your engine (although less so if it's processed to clean it up a little). It's probably not a good idea to try running a newer diesel engine on vegetable oil; old engines tend to be more tolerant of impurities in fuel (and less expensive to replace if they do give up the ghost). [ Wednesday, April 26, 2006 01:02: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3441
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 01:05
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This kind of makes me want a diesel engine. Just to try this. Diesel in and of itself should not be overlooked as an alternate energy source. Diesel engines are considerably more efficient than regular gasoline engines. -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 01:42
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quote:Ethanol is quickly proving to be economically problematic. In Brazil it has lead to a resurgence of the sugar industry, which is particularly problematic, because it has historically relied on foreign capital; there are real fears that the second world could backslide into a sort of neo-imperial state as a consequence of biofuels. They're a stopgap at best. The West needs to adopt nuclear power, and fund the construction of alternative fuels of less efficiency but better safety (hydroelectric, wind, solar) in the third world. Petroleum consumption is a fact of technology; if we reduce it dramatically, it'll last us until it becomes economically feasible to synthesize it. I'd call that 2150 or so. As it stands, we're slated to run out around 2050. Not so good. quote:That's a stupid comment and you should feel stupid for making it. Everything can't run on diesel, and it has substantial drawbacks. What's more, the efficiency boost is fairly minimal compared to the staggering consumption. quote:This is what I call My Retarded Hippie Uncle environmentalism. Sure, vegetable oil works well enough for your retarded hippie uncle (and yes, I'm aware you're talking about a man in the news, but bear with me), but the entire country couldn't do it without messing up food prices and making people suffer in wonderful and unique ways. quote:Hydrogen fuel, at least until we discover fusion, is essentially a pumpable, explosive battery (and in the context that's an improvement over the regular kind); it's easy to produce, but it takes more power to get than it gives when you use it. Sure, it's clean and abundant. But how are you going to get the power to make it in the first place? Nuclear power would do the trick - but plenty of people treat nuclear power like pulling teeth. It's really quite lovely, though; perhaps when our friendly nuclear physicist / iron-fisted dictator returns he can explain it better. I'm just an enthusiast, but he does it for a living. quote:What? Thermal energy plants don't actually change water; they just turn it into steam, which collects in the atmosphere and returns as rain. That's ridiculous. You're a fool. [ Wednesday, April 26, 2006 01:51: Message edited by: The Worst Man Ever ] Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 6581
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 03:03
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Because the World temperature is getting more high, I think that the Sun's energy will be very useful. -------------------- Download Geneforge 4: Rebellion You have 6 posts. Nobody cares what you think. - Thuryl Wikipedia may be your friend, but UBB is not. - Dikiyoba Posts: 1310 | Registered: Tuesday, December 20 2005 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 04:29
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quote:I hope you are joking, but just in case: Solar power does not depend so much on heat, but photons in the visible spectrum. The visible photon flux is roughly constant and independent of heat. They are energetic enough to cause movement of electrons to generate a current. "Heat" as we like to think of are photons in the infrared range, too low to cause currents directly. They interact with the molecular translational, rotational, and vibrational states to give them kinetic energy. Unfortunately, in order to extract useful work, you need a sizable temperature difference. Because of the roughly uniform local nature of the photon flux, achieving such a local temperature difference (think 100s of degrees C) would be likely impossible. An interesting idea is is called OTEC or Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion. This uses a temperature difference with respect to the bottom of the ocean and the surface to cause a current. Feel free to read up on it. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3441
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 04:47
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quote:Ouch! Grant me clemency. It was 6:05 in the morning when I posted that, and I have been awake since around 9:00 the previous morning. I assure you, nothing I say on these boards can make me feel half as stupid as the Calc II final I just took. By all means, however, go on. I was simply stating that Diesel engines are more efficient. Since diesel fuel need not come from petroleum, it is a very attractive alternate fuel source. In addition, it is already widely used, so a gradual shift to diesel, at least as a temporary measure, can help alleviate the demand for oil. I'm not suggesting that it is the best substance in the world. I believe it is a rather bad polutant, but it can be renewable, is efficient, and is plentiful. -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, April 26 2006 04:55
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I don't think that there will be any one new solution to the world's energy problems. I think it will be lots of little things. I think that we need to build more fuel-efficient engines — because in most cases, the technology exists and we just haven't bothered to use it — and invest more heavily in hybrids and (god forbid!) genuine electric cars. Apparently there are only two things holding back electric cars right now: they are somewhat pricey ($30,000-$50,000 range, normally) and their batteries don't hold as much energy as a conventional car. That is, one has to refuel (charge at an outlet) every 100 miles, instead of every 300 or 400. If we can double or triple the capacity of electric car batteries — not an easy feat, but not inconceivable — and get some chargers installed at major gas stations, electric cars might be viable. As it is, we need to encourage hybrids, which are more immediately useful. I think market forces are doing this right now: $3 per gallon gasoline is making a lot of people care about fuel efficiency who didn't before. I'd like to think that we can encourage mass transit, but I tend to suspect that it will only work in certain situations. I know that getting around on the mass transit in the SF Bay Area is really, really slow, and driving is much faster, so we're probably going to have drivers for as long as driving is physically possible. There are people right now who are equipping their houses with solar panels and becoming completely energy-independent. These people supply the electric company with energy, rather than the other way around. Such systems are expensive in initial investments, but if one gets a loan, the loan payments are less expensive than one's energy bill was. We should encourage this by making some part of it tax-deductable or something. There are limits on the people who can do this; it doesn't work for people living in apartments, for example. However, I suspect that it's another piece of the puzzle. I have heard that the problem with nuclear power is that it's just too expensive, that it's simply more cost-efficient to reduce usage than it is to build nuclear plants. I don't know anything about it beyond having read it, but I'm inclined to believe that building a few nuclear plants is not a bad idea anyway. We're going to need major energy sources, and coal and oil aren't going to work for us indefinitely. I can imagine (eventually) hydrogen being used in things that are much bigger than cars, like airplanes or something, things in which a shift to fully electric or biodiesel won't work as well, but that sort of technology is far off still. I guess what I'm saying is that a full, comprehensive solution isn't available yet, but we can take some positive steps right now anyway. [ Wednesday, April 26, 2006 05:00: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |