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The nephilim language in The Avernum Trilogy
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #85
okay, now let me see. First and foremost, and I'll keep repeating this: the pages are under construction and probably still full of things that are not clear and the like. I'm attempting to make it all clarer, so everybody will understand that an ergative-language is far simpler then an indo-European language.

Now for your critisisme:

1) the postpostions may well be a mistake I made when translating the Dutch to English. What do you think is best to call it? Will "suffix" be better?

2) yes that's right, but such a form won't be in genitive in nephilian. It would be in another case, depending on the word it belongs to. if the word it belongs to is in absolutive, it would be in absolutive. If in ergative, it would be in ergative. A glass of water denotes the amount of water. therefor, water belongs to the glass. It's the same with all these things: A pound of meat, a heap of chickens, and one can go on with that. However, that you mentioned, did make me aware of the fact forgot to include a case: the instrumentative (if that's the right name in English). However, i saw I forgot to put it in the list. Yes, I know, that was very stupid. the instrumentative case has about the same, together with another few, meaning like the comitative: "with." In this case, however, "with"
is not as in "together with," but as "with" used as an instrument. So: the man is battred with the club.

3) changed it. I hope this is clearer now.

4) I know. i don't really understand why I wrote that, but it is fixed now. A reason I might hace said that, is explained in the "website modifications" thread.

5) I didn't count the vocative for some reason.

6)
quote:
If you've set this up as an ergative-absolutive language (ew...)
Is there something wrong with that? Also, I thought I had made it clear enough.

7) What is your point? I only copied that part from a book, written by a gret Sumerologist, so wht exactly is it you want to say?

8) I wasn't very clear, indeed. I shall fix that.

9) A common mistake. fixed it.

10) Already got the idea of changing that about a week ago. I will, don't worry.

At the moment I'm altering the "nouns" page to reflect all this. I ask everybody who has questions to wait until the mistakes are fixed, and look at the new page. Chances are your question is answered.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Website modifications in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #35
quote:
Originally written by Clemens:

quote:
Originally written by Thralni, Nephil translators & co.:


Clemens, I didn't know your mother tongue is Dutch! Care to tell me where you come from (which province, obiously)?

Zoeterwoude, a little place in the area around Leiden, North-Holland, I thought you knew that? Anyway, you know now

Ah, it's you again, Mark! I always look at usernames, and not as signatures. I should do that, before asking stupid questions, actually...

Slartucker! Are you an assyriologist! I think I fell in love. My parents are a assyrilogist and Symerologist! I'll go over the explanations a second time and see what can be done to improve it. Engish does make it harder. however, do the example-sentences offer any help there? Or should I change them too?

Semitic languages are not ergative? Then Hurrian isn't a Semitic langauge. In that case, does one call it just an ergative language, or is there a special name for it that i don't know of?

And I also agree with Kelandon. This is my last post about this in this topic.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
The nephilim language in The Avernum Trilogy
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #82
1) remember that it is still under construction. However, I'm fairly certain no prepostions will be introduced. the nouns are the only part of the grammar of which I'm certain I wouldn't change it.

2) When I said that, I actually meant the dative, genitive and ablative-instrumental cases, being like they are in latin. Accustive is actually split up into two seperate cases:

terminitive: indicating the motion towards something;
Absolutive: functions as accustive with an instransitive verb.

The transitive verb indeed only works with transitive verb, as only a transitive verb can have an object. if you have more questions about that, feel free to ask.

3) You can't. Did I mess up somewhere with the explanations?

I'm so pleased with the ineterest in the language! If only the website would work like I want... Oh well. that you guys still didn't start shouting is very pleasing and satisfying to know. :D

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Website modifications in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #28
quote:
Originally written by Slartucker:

On Nephilian: I'm glad you are pursuing the language! I have a few comments.
1) Pronounciation: Your "FH" doesn't make sense. "TH" is a single sound, not two sounds, so replacing the T with the F as you suggest would essentially lead one to make a normal "F" sound -- but you differentiate those.
2) I like your use of animate/inanimate gender, which seems very appropriate to nephil shamanism.
3) The cases are a little confusing. You explain what they mean, but for some it's unclear how they are used. I guess you are making the language ergative-absolutive?

Out of curiosity, what *is* your first language?

Am I glad you are really interested! Your answers and comments:

1) Am thinking of removing it, indeed.

2) Thanks

3) Thanks again, and yes. This is an ergative-language. away with all the Latin based langauges! it is time for the ancient Semitic languages to come on the stage!

About the website: I made what you said, Stareye. now that it wasn't you who gave me the idea. My father showed me how to do it, and I made it. The Nephilian grammar is the only part that has it now, but I hope to get it all over my site.

By the way, something strange with those frames: first the ads were only in the screen at the lower-right corner. Now they also appear in the frame to the left. can somebody give me a hint why does suddenly happened?

Clemens, I didn't know your mother tongue is Dutch! Care to tell me where you come from (which province, obiously)?

Alex, would you like a link to your site on my website?

Ben, thanks for the back-up. It's what I intended to say, but it didn't work out very well, he he.

EDIT: Slartucker, I forgot to ask what you would like to see improved of the explanations?

[ Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:27: Message edited by: Thralni, Nephil translators & co. ]

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Website modifications in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #21
Do you really think I care? Does something automatically make it amateurisch when it is centered, blue with white and large letters for the titles of the pages? Don't forget that this is my first attempt, okay?

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
The nephilim language in The Avernum Trilogy
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #78
I thought I said I didn't know if I had used the correct words when describing the teutons with their empire, because It was actually something else I meant, but didn't find the right word. I had to trabslate it from Dutch, and that didn't work out with the names of the Tribes. Note that we are talking about ± 800 A.D.

It is clear what I wanted to say, no?

[ Saturday, January 21, 2006 06:11: Message edited by: Thralni, Nephil translators & co. ]

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Website modifications in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #19
there was something there once, but I romved it to later replace it with the new page. A direct link to it can be found in the "Nephilim language" topic in the Avernum trilogy forum. Enjoy the nephilian grammar.

EDIT: Jewels, the link is there. Um... Are you, Jewels, Gizmo? The site says by Gizmo

[ Saturday, January 21, 2006 03:39: Message edited by: Thralni, Nephil translators & co. ]

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
The nephilim language in The Avernum Trilogy
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #75
The nephilian grammar is online!

Before you start to shout at me for doing a worthless job, take your time to go through all the explanations. Endings and postpositions and suffixes can be changed. I myself am contemplating on doing that. It is the basic structure of the language which I'm pround of.

It is here: Nephilian grammar and vocabulary guide

This is a quote from a book about Dutch and Diets and Deutsch:

quote:
The Dutch word "Duits" (deutsch) is an equivalent to the Flämish "Diets." Its origin is the word theudisk, albeit from a long chain of all small modifications (These are the ones ef mentioned in her post). In a attempt to seperate themselves from the Romans, the teutons living there called their language "Theodisk." This name soon was the name of the language spoken in the whole of the teuton empire. the Englsh took on the name "Dutch," as a name for the people that belonged to the countries were Diets was spoken, who were closed to them.
Yeutons and the teuton empire is a name I looked up, but I'm not sure if they are the right words. There does't seem to be a word in English for "het Frankische rijk," or "her germaanse rijk." (Note that that was Dutch).

So far my findings about Diets and the origin of Dutch.

[ Saturday, January 21, 2006 03:27: Message edited by: Thralni, Nephil translators & co. ]

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
The nephilim language in The Avernum Trilogy
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #73
No, i can't. It comes from my teacher Dutch. Giving a link to hi would be a hell of a job, and I don't think he would like it.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Website modifications in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #17
So how do I write it? English is my second language, not my mother tongue.

Also, forget Freewes. i tried it out, but I had problems on my mac, and wasn't sure at all it would work. Then I also discovered I needed to sign up for all kinds of services before I could do anthing. Thanks a lot, Freewebs.

I'm amazed by the things you people point out to be "amateurish." What do I care how the "under construction page" looks like!? Come on! It's only a temporary page! And what can be amateurish about the links? They are just links! maybe you could, instead of just saying what is wrong, also say how it can be improved.

[ Saturday, January 21, 2006 02:05: Message edited by: Thralni, Nephil translators & co. ]

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
The nephilim language in The Avernum Trilogy
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #71
I don't know know where your word of Dutch comes from, but it certainly sounds like "Deutsch." However, as all these languages actually came from "Diets" (pronounced Deets) and indeed, as Alorael said, meaning "people", it may also have come from there. By the way, Deutsch came directly from the name "Diets."

Nephilim has two of the letters Nephilim are inclined to use. The "F" and the "M", only is the "F" transformed into "PH." (Although I don't know of Americans pronounce PH as F). To me, Nephilim could be a ancient word of their tongue, albeit pronounced differently. The Avernites may have heard their speech and, when translating, just spoke it out as they heard it: "Nephilim." I guess the same as with the Slitherikai. I don't think that the word "Nephilim" on it's own could tell me a lot more then I know already about the language. Actually, it tells me less then any Nephil name I came across.

I heard somebody saying about the Nephilim not being able to say long words? Who the hell said that!? Ever heard my vat meow? he could have meowed for about 8 seconds non-stop, with such an intensity, such a loudness, that the whole family could go crazy. Now don't start telling me about the Nephilim, being descended from cats, that they can't say long words.

[ Saturday, January 21, 2006 00:36: Message edited by: Thralni, Nephil translators & co. ]

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Terror's Martyr University is Revamped in Blades of Avernum
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #1
You gave your opinion about my website, here's mine about yours.

Yes, It is better (much better) then what I managed, but I do hate black on white and certainly vice versa. I like blue. Therefor there's much blue on my site. I do think this site is a enormous improvemant over the old site you had.

Congratulations.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Website modifications in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #15
quote:
Originally written by Prometheus:

...Thralni, your site does look incredibly amateurish. I mean, worse than the first incarnation of TMU. (Although admittedly, first TMU was basically a broadband-only site.)

I mean, really. What's wrong with Black on White or vice-versa?

Um, maybe you didn't realize, but this is the first web site I ever made. If you don't like this, I don't want to know what you have found of my former website. This website at least has links.

Dikiyoba, thanks. The ads is something I can't change, though. that's Angelfire's work. You also said it wasnt very complete yet. What do you suggest? Pictures maybe? I haven't got them, actually... If I knew how to put them on the site.

Jewels, I'll put your site together with the links when I have more people to put there, so I can do it all at once.

Ben, tell me more about Freewebs?

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Play and rate my scenarios:

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Website modifications in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #6
Look, those who want their link up there, say it and say what I should write. The modifications are almost done. I'm just waiting for people who want a link to their site.

--------------------
Play and rate my scenarios:

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Website modifications in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #0
I'm completely rebeuilding my website. I wanted to ask everybody who would like a link to his/her website on my webpage, to look at the links page of my site, and see if a link is there. otherwise, this is your chance to ask me to put a link there.

Kelandon: I was wondering if you could alter the description of the link to my website, please? maybe you could write there that it also hosts (well, not yet, but it will come there one day) the Nephilian grammar and vocabulary guide? Thanks in advance.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Time Limit Discussion in Blades of Avernum
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #25
And that's what I also stated: think about what kind of timelimit this is: a real timelimit (which doesn't occur in my scenario, except for an attack on a fort, but for the rest nothing serious), or just an event. In my scenario there are mostly events, and no real timelimits.

It's not right what you said about the official in my scenario. the major to whome you gave all the information, actually says that you should be patient, and the that man might need some time to round all things up and get the official arrested.

In my scenario it's more like in Avernum 3 then in the Za-khazi run: cities crumble and people flee after certain periods of time, or when a certain thing happens. I think it makes it all more realistic. the player can choose: shall I do it all quickly, so everybody will be safe, or shall I do it slowly and see the province crumble.

In the case of Dintiradan, I advise the event on timer part, combined with a timelimit. Are the Vahnatai really furious for whatever you did, and are they going to storm the city at once, or do they send an ultimatum? Do certain things happen to weaken the city, caused by the vahnatai (think of murders and the like), so they can attack later? However, at a certain point the time is up and they should attack.

[ Friday, January 20, 2006 03:35: Message edited by: Thralni, Nephil translators & co. ]

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Time Limit Discussion in Blades of Avernum
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #23
yes, zeviz has a point there. one thing that he, in my opinion, forgot to state, is that when using timelimits a scenario becomes ten times more interesting and realistic, if used correctly. An example I put in my own scenario:

At a certain point you discover about a man conspiring with the enemy, it's a high official. You tell this to the mayor of a certain town. now, if there wasn't a timelimit, upon telling this the traitor would immediatly be gone. Is that realistic? no. Not in my opinion. When dealing with such accustaions against a high officials, things are likely to go slwoly, so I put in a timer that makes the guy dissappear after 4 days.

A timelimt can be very useful in scenario's in which war is the present situation. Towns crumble. people flee. The only problem I found is changing the outdoors. In the docs ir is said that many terrain modification calls don't work right outdoors. but, in towns, this modification can be very handy. It may make the player tired or irritated (or frustrated, like in ZKR), but when used proparly, it makes it more interesting.

Maybe we should also ask ourselves what a timelimit exactly is. Some timelimits are better then other ones. Timelimits of which a whole lot depends, are usualy frustrating, but when the things that change aren't so big, then what is the problem? It will make things only more realistic. I think, therefor, that many scenario's will benefit from that, if they have the right plot.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Rosetta in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #2
Do these Intel-based Mac's already exist? I didn't here about them being for sale as yet.

EDIT: Indeed. I hope that until July they put the Intel chip also in the Macmini.

[ Thursday, January 19, 2006 07:17: Message edited by: Thralni, Nephil translators & co. ]

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
I'm late! I'm late! in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #29
Number 6. Fair enough.

Why am I posting actually. It's not like I have something important to say. maybe just to announce the number? That would be a worthless reason to post, actually. Oh yes! I answered my own question! I posted here because I wanted to announce my number, and thereby get the meaningless approbation of my fellow SW boards posters.

Were else did I hear that sentence? Ah yes, never mind.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
The Mountain of Shadows RP in General
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #491
quote:
Originally written by Sir Sherlock Holmes:

****IC UNDER CONTRUCTION****

I think my next post will be one of my shortest. And Nazgul, I DID try to shorten the length of my last post. Thralni pretty much destroyed my herbs, so I had to find a way to compensate. The best I could come up with was to have Orloki take advantage of Edith's mental collapse and possess her as a result.

Please note Filbert didn't actually destroy all the herbs. only the ones she was using to make the potion.

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Thralni's almighty Avernum pages: Go look! Go go go go!

Click here for more information on Olga's fortune teller kiosk

Olga's fortune teller kiosk has been temporarily closed down, but you can contact the prophet with a PM - Was signed by the prophet of the almighty chicken gods, gods of everything that is a chicken.

Work has begun on the Nephilian (temporary name) grammar and vocabulary guide!
Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
run_town_script(); in Blades of Avernum Editor
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #21
There is not enough time (unless you are in combat mode) to go from the control room all the way to the exit of town, and I also don't really want people to do that. I want the player to witness what he did. The only thing I have to implement is the wizards running to you to kill you and restore the system (which won't work).

Oh really... I didn't know it can be put in the town script's START_STATE. I'll put it there then. It will make things an awful lot easier. That also means you were right, salmon. My apologies for my lack of patience.

But then again, if the party does leave before the timer is actually ready running, then this becomes a problem. I could also make the amount of ticks to pass 5, actually. It is not really necessary for it to be 10, but it seemed like the right amount of time for the machines to blow up.

quote:
If you have all of this done by one SDF, a single get_flag check every turn doesn't slow down anything noticeably.

There are many right ways to do this and only a few functional wrong ways.
this is what happens now, and I don't really see an urge to change it.

I think I will put everything in the town script's START_STATE.

--------------------
Play and rate my scenarios:

Where the rivers meet
View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
run_town_script(); in Blades of Avernum
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #21
There is not enough time (unless you are in combat mode) to go from the control room all the way to the exit of town, and I also don't really want people to do that. I want the player to witness what he did. The only thing I have to implement is the wizards running to you to kill you and restore the system (which won't work).

Oh really... I didn't know it can be put in the town script's START_STATE. I'll put it there then. It will make things an awful lot easier. That also means you were right, salmon. My apologies for my lack of patience.

But then again, if the party does leave before the timer is actually ready running, then this becomes a problem. I could also make the amount of ticks to pass 5, actually. It is not really necessary for it to be 10, but it seemed like the right amount of time for the machines to blow up.

quote:
If you have all of this done by one SDF, a single get_flag check every turn doesn't slow down anything noticeably.

There are many right ways to do this and only a few functional wrong ways.
this is what happens now, and I don't really see an urge to change it.

I think I will put everything in the town script's START_STATE.

--------------------
Play and rate my scenarios:

Where the rivers meet
View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Time Limit Discussion in Blades of Avernum
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #13
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

Originally written by Thralni, Nephil translators & co.:

quote:
Dikiyoba: if you want to explore evry inch of the scenario, then first finish the scenario, and afterwards you can start looking at places you didn't have time to look at.
If that is possible, Dikiyoba will gladly do it. But how do you propose doing that with The Za-Khazi Run? If you mean by playing the scenario through once and playing it again later, Dikiyoba has already done that.

I don't know this for sure, but isn't it possible to go back on the river for a small amount of time?

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
run_town_script(); in Blades of Avernum Editor
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #14
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Salmon:

Any particular reason you don't have all this stuff in the start state of the town script?
I think I already explained that twice: because only the scenario script's START_STATE is run every turn, and all the others, including the town script START_STATE, not. As I want that a particular message is displayed at a certain point in time (When flag x,y == 1 and the amount of ticks past from the moment that flag was set (which is stored in a variable: tick1) until now is tick1 + 10). this can only be done in the scenario script's START_STATE. that's why. Do you understand it now, or would you like to know more?

okay, Kelandon. Thanks. I haven't tried it out myself, as I'm bussy studying French for a test tomorrow.

Thanks to all of you who offered advice and tried to help.

--------------------
Play and rate my scenarios:

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View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
run_town_script(); in Blades of Avernum
Master
Member # 5977
Profile Homepage #14
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Salmon:

Any particular reason you don't have all this stuff in the start state of the town script?
I think I already explained that twice: because only the scenario script's START_STATE is run every turn, and all the others, including the town script START_STATE, not. As I want that a particular message is displayed at a certain point in time (When flag x,y == 1 and the amount of ticks past from the moment that flag was set (which is stored in a variable: tick1) until now is tick1 + 10). this can only be done in the scenario script's START_STATE. that's why. Do you understand it now, or would you like to know more?

okay, Kelandon. Thanks. I haven't tried it out myself, as I'm bussy studying French for a test tomorrow.

Thanks to all of you who offered advice and tried to help.

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Play and rate my scenarios:

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View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape.

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00

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