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Nothing Plus Nothing Equals Nothing in General
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #64
quote:
Originally written by Synergy67:

[quote=Kelandon]
[qb]I'm not sure why you think that the medical industry only researches pharmaceuticals. It doesn't.

I don't recall ever saying that it does. It is the lions share by a huge longshot of how we treat disease. Seriously, is there anyone going to argue that the west practices allopathic medicine as a whole, overall? I'm focusing on the dominant practice and belief system, not stating it exists to the utter exclusion of others.

I am privileged to live in a part of America that is very friendly to many "alternative" approaches and practices to health and medicine...and other aspects of life, for that matter. The alternatives exist, yes. It's expanding as more and more people have grown disillusioned with and unwilling to endure the detriments of the allopathic approach, basically. That which works sells itself ultimately, and that which is inferior or ineffective, will in time, fall into disfavor.[/quote]Not quite. Pseudoscience and quackery often "sell" in vast amounts to the average, not-well-informed person and when the trendiness of the quackery dies down, new quackery rises to take i8t's place on store shelves. The current trend of new age-psychic-herbalistic-crystal-homeopathic nonsense is slowly starting to lose ground(again) but some new nonsense, not unlike the "chakras" and Reiki absurdity of today(and years past) will become fashionable.

quote:
In the long run, even fallible science will be unable to dictate reality to the populace.
What exactly do you mean by "fallible science"? If you are saying that humans practicing anything(including science) can make mistakes then fine but if you are, as I suspect, trying to say that the methodology itself is significantly lacking then you will have to do better.

quote:
I've been alive long enough to see in my lifetime a significant change and expansion in both attitude and practice toward non-allopathic medicine. That's very telling in and of itself, and it has nothing to do with anything I believe or can try to communicate here or anywhere else.
It has everything to do with how common "belief"(and subsequently pattern recognition behaviors) is and how rare critical thinking is. For every Sagan or Einstein there are probably 10 million Deepak Chopras and Shirley Mclaines.

quote:
Allopathy and pharmacology is where the power and money still lies currently though,
Really? Tell that to the corporate bastards building billion dollar empires right and left from "Alterative medicine" because they can package any concoction of ground spiders' legs, herbal extracts and some alleged ancient far east weed or tea formula without the rigorous standards of FDA approval and none of these "alternative" or "homeop-athic" or "Naturopathic" "remedies even have to do ANYTHING! There are no controlled studies showing that they have any beneficial effects(not to mention that we are seeing people DIE from some of these often enough to be very concerned) and the so-called alternative medicine crowd does not seem anxious to push for any.

quote:
and it has tremendous power to hamper the lesser approaches, and not even necessarily by any conscious intent, but by the simple law of inertia. It takes time to steer an ocean liner in a new direction. But in time, people do vote with their feet.
They do up until the dying starts(and becomes known to even the most ill-informed person). Then make the wise decision to trust the guy who went to med school for 8-12 years and has been treating people with known to be EFFECTIVE means for even more years, as opposed to trusting the guy who pioneered "Stoned thinking"(Andrew Weil) or who wrotte a book called "Sharks Don't Get Cancer!"(but neglected to write the obvious follow up "Roaches do not get Diabetes!" which would make the case that eating roaches should cure diabetes).

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
5353: Pseudohistory Phatassathon in General
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #3
*Jumps up and down with hand in the air*

Oh OH OH!! Next do the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories! You can focus on Oliver Stone or that idiot who wrote "High Treason" as the "pseudohistorian"!

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
8000: Pseudoscience Postravaganza in General
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #53
Sooner or later...someone will mention Creationism/"Intelligent Design".

And then the world will go to Hell in a handbasket.

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
What do you look for in a scenario? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #32
quote:
Originally written by Papal Legate Pablo:

I'd like to point out that in my first post, I stated that I valued appearance (specifically, first appearance) more than plot.

I guess I was too quick in claiming that all intellectuals prefer plot; however, I never worried that someone claiming to be an intellectual would actually come along and dispute that.

I am not claiming anything but read what you wrote IN CONTEXT. Saying that 'Group A' are "intellectuals(re: thinkers) and as such will agree with your opinion on the matter is a subtle but still offensive way of saying that anyone not seeing things as you do is NOT intellectual adn therforre LESS a thinker than you and people with your opinion on what is most valuable in a CRPG.

If it were a one time thing then I would let it slide without comment but it has gotten a bit tiresome reading such comments. CRPGS are, at their core, tactical simulation games. That they are good for adding such elements as plot/story/characterization(better than say FPS games or shoot-'em-ups for doing this) does not change this fact. Take away the simulation aspects and they are no longer RPGs but insteasd become point and click 'Adventure games' or action click-fests/twitch games. Now that does not mean that you cannot or should not seek out adn enjoy what you deem to be clever storytelling aspects in such games. I am just saying that, for ME, even the supposed BEST examples of CRPG plotting and storytelling are woefully BAD(Planescape: Torment for example) as BOOKS and WORSE as GAMES.

Just my opinion but my point is that it is not any more or less "intellectual" to enjoy the games for what they are and not worry about slogging through dialogue/text.
'Roguelike' CRPGs are completely devoid of any plot and I can play them for HOURS then read Dostoyevsky or Gene Wolfe before bed if I want a plot/story fix and I have probably one hundred different books on philosophy/science/etc. if I really want to get "intellectual".

Anyway, I'll shut up now adn go back to lurking.

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
What do you look for in a scenario? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #30
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Jeff's views are a lot more nuanced than you're making them sound. Consider the following quote from Jeff, reviewing another shareware RPG, on this page:
Never said that Jeff was opposed to plot or something. I am not sure what you are getting at here.

quote:

Also, I don't particularly appreciate the fact that you're basically accusing 90% of the community of lying when they claim that plot is important to them. If we hated "reading through endless reams of text", as you put it, we wouldn't spend all our free time hanging around on forums, now would we? :P

Use the quote function to avoid such misunderstandings kiddo. That is what it is for.

Here is what I actually worte:

quote:
BoA may not have the best tactical combat out there but even so, for me it is more interesting killing stuff and taking loot than reading through endless reams of text.
Pay particular atention to the italicised portion(the "for me" part) as this clearly identifies who I am talking about(myself).

For all I know every single person who is truly enamored of plot/story in CRPGs might be concentrated at these Spiderweb forums. I never called ANY of you "liars" and certainly never identified "90%" of you as such.

I was saying that GENERALLY SPEAKING, I do not believe that everyone is as impressed by plot/story in what are supposed to be tactical simulation games as they indicate anymore than there are nearly as many fans of poetry as a poll might indicate.

Reading is fundamental junior.

[ Friday, September 29, 2006 13:04: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
What do you look for in a scenario? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #25
I could care less about plot. I very much suspect that saying "plot" or "story" in answer to questions such as these is something people feel obligated to do. Kind of like how people feel obligated to say that poetry is compelling or that they enjoy reading it. I am sure there ARE people who enjoy poetry and people who want to have to READ through CRPGS rather than PLAY them, but I think a good number of people simply don't want others to think they are stupid/not hip.

I read a LOT. Books that is. If I want to read the exploits of characters that are not mine, caught up in situations that are politically/morally/romantically interesting, then I KNOW better than to turn to video games for that.

I am pretty much with Jeff Vogel on this one. "Roleplaying is overated. In the end we just want to kill stuff" he once said in an interview.

BoA may not have the best tactical combat out there but even so, for me it is more interesting killing stuff and taking loot than reading through endless reams of text.

This rant was mostly brought on by the stupid comment above that(paraphrased) 'Spiderweb is full of intellectuals and therefore combat is not as important as plot...'. As if anyone not parroting the mantra is some knuckle-dragging, beer-guzzling, button-mashing moron wearing a "No Fat Chicks" T-shirt and cranking up Kid Rock on his car stereo.

See you guys next year.

[ Friday, September 29, 2006 12:49: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Avernum:4 vs Blades Of Avernum which is the best? in Avernum 4
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #63
Please people! The topic of this thread is the english language and how people like me(or should that be "people like I"?) butcher it! You are going horribly OFF-topic with this discussion of Spiderweb Software's games! ;)

Ironic? Maybe. Subtle? No.

[ Monday, January 09, 2006 02:32: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Any artists around? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #28
quote:
Originally written by Smoo:


Skeletony: When will Mr Proudfoot be adding your graphics to PoWS? :P (I seem to recall you had done something for it anyway.)

Been there almost from teh beginning. Check the credits page. I did probably around 3 dozen player icons(of which maybe less than two dozen are in teh current 3 year old build of the game and even those are the "rough draft" versions) including the little grween alien guy, the chain mailed sword-wielding dwarf, the plate-mailed halfling with sword, and too many more to list here. I also did a bunch of monsters including the elementals(earth, air, fire and water...the versions that are seen in game however are messed up a bit. Particularly the air elemental), some beetles and I forget what else.

I did a LOT of stuff, including a full color splash page/credit or intro screen type pic that was real nice, that never made it into the game because Tom stopped working on it and I believe he lost the later stuff I sent him.

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Any artists around? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #13
I am betting my ass that most of the aspiring artists here are not old enough to buy beer(maybe even cigarettes) and at that age 99.999% of artists are not very good. Problem is that, amongst thier peers, they are probably considered wonderful and so when Smoo offers constructive criticsim, it seems offensive.

Trust me that he was being very KIND in his criticism. Send that stuff to a comic book company or even a small computer game company(ala Spiderweb) or some such and you will want to give up drawing completely when you read the reply from the art director.

When I was in my teens I think I was still copying other artists' works(John Byrne, Mike Zeck etc.) and not doing my own work. I NEVER traced or anything like that but I would freehand replicate other artists' renderings of various characters to the best of my ability and that was how I learned most of what I learned. Later I took classes and bought books by Burne Hogarth and the like. I even bought "Gray's Anatomy" just to study anatomy(which is like buying a bazooka to kill roaches when you are aspiring to be a comic book artist).

Years ago I was teaching workshops in dynamic anatomy and comic book illustration to teenagers who were basically in the same boat as I was(back when I was a teenager copying other artists).

The point of all this is that I did not listen to anybody who just said "You suck" to try and insult me but I listened to every bit of constructive criticsm I could and I took praise from non-artists with a grain of salt.

Becoming a good artist requires more than just spending inordinate amounts of time on a picture you are drawing. You must STUDY! One, two and three point perspective, shading & color(learn about reflective highlights, core highlights etc.), inking/embellishment(cross hatching, stipling etc.) and if you are planning to do people, animals, creatures and such(other than the 'Sunday funnies' styled cartoons) you must learn about anatomy. Skeletons, muscles and how these things operate and appear when they operate. A bicep of an extended human arm is quite different in appearance than a bicep of someone "flexing".

You must also study wrinkles and drapery/clothing and learn about "anchor points" and such.

Having said all that, I am too lazy and too unhealthy nowadays to put in the effort to produce really good artwork. I do the occasional flyer or CD insert artwork for local bands(VERY occasional) or sketch while waiting to see a doctor and some CRPG grphic tiles/icons, but that is it. So I won't be volunteering to assist Smoot myself.

[ Wednesday, November 16, 2005 06:42: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
ALMIGHT DOER OF STUF!!!!! in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #3
quote:
Originally written by Party of the Gods:

who's TM???
Well, his un-real name is "Terror's Martyr" but we are too lazy to type out "Terror's Martyr" usually so we just call him "That guy who allows us to play on his internet even though we are not communists".

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Guys... I started the Hak-Kahz ruin thingie.. but I need help in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #22
quote:
Originally written by ef:

Thanks, yes. I didn't have much time, just saw that S and T. I had been tired, dreading the next client. That type of post was what I needed. I've been in prime shape. So thanks again!! :)
Glad I could be something other than an annoyance :D . Here's to the rest of your clients finding their way under a very large bus ;) .:cheers:

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Guys... I started the Hak-Kahz ruin thingie.. but I need help in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #21
quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:


EDIT: SkeleTony, how long did you take writing that tech support conversation?

It came to me as I was typing. With my sense of humor there is very little lag-time once I start(not that everytime I go for humor it is actually funny or anything. Just comes pretty quickly funny or not).

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Guys... I started the Hak-Kahz ruin thingie.. but I need help in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #12
At first I thought to myself: "It is hard to communicate in a secondary language. I cannot do it. So I won't say anything about the grammar/spelling.

Then I looked at his location.

Buffalo Grove, IL. US

WTF man?!? I have had exchanges with foreigners with less than a week of learning english under their belts who were not this bad!?!?

Stay OUT of AOL chatrooms guy! It will ruin any chance you have of being a productive member of scoiety! "help" is spelled H-E-L-P. There is no 'A' anywhere near the word! "Please" is spelled P-L-E-A-S-E- and has NEVER contained an 'X'(or the ever popular 'Z').

As for "Za-Khazi Run"...no, I am sorry but "whatever it's called" will not do. If you want people to help you out then the very LEAST you can do is to pay attention to what you are *@#&ing playing!

I hope you do not have some issue with your computer someday and attempt to get help with such laziness...

Party of the Gods: "HAPL!!!11 My wandils or locking upped!! I can't no wot 2 doing!"

Tech support: "Uh...are you asking about 'WINDOWS'?

Party of the Gods: "YESS!!11 My wondals are stukked in my minotaur nd I can't not shoot down my PC!!"

Tech Support:"Uh...okay, these are the LINUX boards first of all and secondly..."minotaur"?!"

Party of the Gods:"Ok...how do i use Linx to fix my windals?!? ~PLXZ!! Stuck in screen adn turning my minotor on and off won't fixor my PC!!!"

Tech Support:"LINUX, not "linx", is an operating system sir. You use WINDOWS operating system. Therefore I suggest you take this over to the Windows Tech Support forums..."

Party of the Gods: "Okay...how do I got there? I live in IL. PLX HALP!!!"

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #308
quote:
Originally written by Dolphin:

quote:
Originally written by The Almighty Doer of Stuff:

It says they don't have souls, therefore they don't go to Heaven.
If animals don't have souls, than what in us is our soul? What thoughts, feelings, or behaviors define a soul or lack of?

Is either of these things specifically spoken of in the bible?

In actuality(and this will shock some Abrahamic theists) the Bible does not mention any such thing as a "soul" at all, by ANY translation! THe ancient Hebrews literally believed that a person's "spirit"(for lack of a better word) was located in the kidneys and I believe the Hebrew word for "breath"(as in "Breath of life") is the same word as that for "kidney".

Later Christians and jews placed this "spirit" in the heart(or sometimes the brain) but as yet there is absolutely NOTHING that infers the existence of a "soul" or "spirit" ANYWHERE.

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Do you think there is a Hell? in General
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #307
quote:
Originally written by Jewels of the Forest:

quote:
Originally written by Maxmillion:

Why does God need us if he's perfect. If he was perfect he'd be happy without us.
He may not need us but perhaps he still wanted us.

Same diff'. "Wants" are rooted in needs. I don't NEED a quarter-pounder w/cheese but I DO need food and WANT a QP w/cheese!

A "perfect" entity can want for nothing. PArt of being "perfect" is that you already have everything you could want.

On a related note, I often encounter theists who believe that God has emotional states and such(anger, joy, sense of humor etc.) and yet allegedly has no physical 'body'/brain. THis is terribly problematic for such theists because things like "sense of humor" and emotional states are rooted in the physiological. If we did not have the bodies we have, with the neural systems, spinal cords, brains adn the experiences we have as a result of being bipedal/hominid beings, we would NOT have a "sense of humor"(as we currently define/understand the term) or emotions or even such "wants" as companionship(especially not HUMAN companionship! Sorry to burst human bubbles here.) and the like.

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
THE GREAT DEBATE in General
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #3
Interesting. Been away for a while(got distracted by Other Games ™ ).

Edit: remembered the BBCode for that trademark thing.

Anyway, I am not much good on the abortion issue(I am a liberal and AM pro-choice. It's just that I think the issue is more complex than people tend to make it and I am not particularly inclined to sort it out) but matters of skepticism vs. existential claims(gods/psychics/ghosts/fairies/whatever) are my strong suit and I am a skeptic if anyone fancies taking up the guantlet there(and yes Thuryl, you ARE right out :D ).

[ Saturday, April 23, 2005 02:01: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Phaedra in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #61
Holy CRAP! I come back here to check on any new scenarios being released or developed and find TM wearing a foil-hat and trying to warn everyone of the capitalist conspiracy that exists within Keladon's scenario which he was tipped off to by the fact that one of the female NPCs is dressed unrealistically sexy in a fantasy RPG environment(Boris Valejo be DAMNED!)!

This may be the stupidest argument I have ever witnessed. If you have a problem with women looking sexy by the standards of modern, earthly males in a fantasy game because it is 'unrealistic' then I remind you of the fact that these same characters are using sorcery, rather than attorneys to solve problems(re:It is a FANSTASY game!).
For those who object because they see a leftist/right-wing/capitalist/communist conspiracy to turn us into drone-workers for some overmind then I submit that YOU are living in a fantasy world!

[ Tuesday, April 12, 2005 06:13: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Concentrated Linearity Debate (New Voices Welcome to Participate and Vote) in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #27
@Cradial:

This will be the last time I repeat this so try and pay attention this time:

I NEVER "DEMANDED" that ANY author design ANY scenario in ANY particular way!

After I tried to explain this to you the first few times, you came back once again with something along the lines of "But Why should a scenario designer cater to your demands?".

@Thuryl:

Re: Your last response to me in the now locked threadds.

I assure you that what you were assuming was my intent is just that, an assumption.

Once again, I respect everyone's opinion up until they drag out the strawman and set it on fire and pin my name tag on the dummy's lapel.

Kelandon and TM can correct me if i am wrong here but I don't recall EVER sending them emails or posting in thread "demands" or even SUGGESTIONS on how they should write their scenarios. Nor have i done this for any author of any BoE scenario. I happen to think non-linear makes more sense because RPGs are, unlike books, interactive affairs and linearity limits interactivity(which does not in itself make a scenario "bad").

The thing that seperates RPGs from books is that, in a book, it is the suthor's job to create all the characters and plot out every detail, decision, and situation in order to tell the best story he can.
In a RPG, the scenario author/GM/DM/Game creator is supposed to create the world(or an area within a world), a begining point, an end point and some general events in between. It is the player's job to create the characters adn decide how they get from point 'A' to point 'Z'.

Now I realize that many BoA scenario authors say that BoA severely restricts how many "points" one can allow for in his design and even the most minimally non-linear scenario is a lot of work.

Fine. I don't dispute this at all. I am NOT "demanding" you guys even TRY to do anything differently(nor am I suggesting you haven't tried). I have certainly never "demanded" one of you write a scenario the way I might want it written.

Lastly, in one of my earliest replies to the subject, I used the words "Pretentious and egotistical" to describe the general motivations behind someone choosing restrictively linear game design when creating a CRPG.
"Pretentious" does not mean "sucky". It just means that someone is, rightly or wrongly, presuming themselves to be of an appreciable caliber as a storyteller(in the context of this discussion). Like the girl in junior high school who writes (bad)poetry and tells you that if you play your cards right, she will allow you to read some of her work. WHat I had in mind when I said this was more along the lines of those QBasic CRPG authors who churn out concole styled CRPGs and invariably advertise them as having "Great story!" or "Cool characters!".
At the other end of the spectrum(the non-linear end) you have 'roguelike' CRPGs. Games that do not even bother with any story, feature randomized dungeons and are all about combat and character building.

IMO, roguelikes are WAY more fun than their linear counterparts. The ideal is probably closer to the center but, IMO still on the side of non-linearity simply because of the interactive nature of CRPGs.

[ Sunday, March 06, 2005 23:03: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
In Defense of Pure Linearity: a Case Study in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #9
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

DreamGuy's words about Bahs are the source for the statement, "Some have even spoken desparagingly of the designers of linear, story-driven scenarios, saying that their desire to tell a story through the BoA medium is pretentious, even egotistical."

You have to recall that you're not the only one who took that side in the discussion.


Wrong. Dreamguy never called anyone pretentious. Those were MY words and it had nothing to do with your scenario. Make sure you have your facts straight before offering corrections.

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Linear Scenarios v. Non-Linear Scenarios: The doctrine of time = money in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #14
quote:
Originally written by cradial:

hubblabubbla and so forth, eh (= cross-post from the other thread):

quote:
Originally written by SkeleTony:

..I would not go to a message board and post rant after rant telling people who don't prefer my style to "**** OFF!" like Harloe did.
either you misunderstood, or just completely ignored what Silver actually wrote, just to, possibly, get to cleverly use his, IMHO, quite fine "rant" against him.

the words "**** OFF" weren't, to my eyes, directed at designers who don't agree with Silver's methods and style of working in general. they were directed to people demanding designers to add more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more to their sceanrios, not realizing that the designer uses his free time, doesn't get paid, etc.

Where in his rant do you see the words "This is directed at those who are demanding I add more and more to my scenarios."? Who at these forums has demanded that ANYONE(esp. Harloe) add more and more and more and more to their scnearios?

This rant was one big strawman which he chose to set aflame and stomp on.

quote:
just my, uh, how's it said.. 2 cents (?), though. if it's me who completely misunderstood Silver's post, though, feel free to correct me. ^^
Consider yourself corrected.

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Linear Scenarios v. Non-Linear Scenarios: The doctrine of time = money in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #13
quote:
Originally written by silver harloe:

I'd be happy to listen to suggestions on how to improve scenarios from people who have tried to do it. just like if I went to american idol, I'd be judged by singers.
1)Who here has made suggestions to you about how you should write your scenarios??

2)Only one of the American Idol judges is a singer(and it is arguable whether Mrs. Abdul is indeed a "singer").

3)We, as PLAYERS of CRPGS are entitled to our own preferences and even OPINIONS if we so choose to express them! No one is telling YOU to do ANYTHING! Are you seriously suggesting we can not hold such views unless we make scenarios in BoA?

quote:
until you've tried to do something, you don't know the limitations of the medium, and asking for blood from a stone isn't going to help. the suggestion "make more stuff to do" isn't helpful. the suggestion, "what if you offered XYZ option at point ABC" is helpful.
I am not interested in suggesting ANYTHING to you. I want YOU to write the scenarios YOU want to write. If I get around to finishing a scenario then it will be the one I want to write(linear or otherwise).

quote:
yah, I was ranting. I was drunk. but I had just read the 540th post saying how awful it was that people were writing one story instead twenty, and it bugs me that people make such demands on other people's time. without really suggesting ways to improve it besides "add more".
If you read 540 posts that were critical of linearity then you also noticed the 3,875 posts defending linearity(since we are exaggerating)! Strawman mischaracterizations of the 'non-linear group do not help you.

I think the words you are looking for are "I am sorry about the uncalled for and insulting rant."

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Linear Scenarios v. Non-Linear Scenarios: The doctrine of time = money in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #11
quote:
Originally written by cradial:

ever seen the Code of Conduct of these boards, SkeleTony (pfft, this goes partially to Silver, too, now that i think of it. :P )?
Code of Conduct

Let me get this straight...Silver posts a viciously insulting rant adn tells us all to "**** Off!" and I respond as I did(which was rather appropriate if you ask me) adn you chastise ME primarily while adding that the same could apply to Silver as an afterthought?!?

Let ME try and create a thread wherein I go off on anyone who doesn't appreciate the same things I appreciate, the same way I do, telling them all to "**** Off!" and such and see how many people reply with "That needed to be said." as opposed to a mod locking and or deleting the thread in record time.

I know the perception is that Silver is a regular and I am not, probably because he has posted consistently for however long he has been here. This perception will usually lead to knee-jerk reactions of siding with said "regular". But I have been here for as long as Spiderweb has had forums and none of this should matter anyway!

HE was WRONG. It does not even matter if you personally agree with his rant and wanted to say much the same for whatever emotional reasons. He violated the CoC and if he had not done so, there would be no dissenting replies from me or anyone else.

Take your boy out to the woodshed.

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Linear Scenarios v. Non-Linear Scenarios: The doctrine of time = money in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #10
quote:
Originally written by ef:

Ever seen silver's maps, Skele Tony?
Avernum 1

Objection! Relevance...?

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
In Defense of Pure Linearity: a Case Study in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #1
Jesus f*cking CHRIST already!

Listen, when I used the word "pretentious", I was refering NOT to anyone designing any sort of linear scenario. I was refering to CRPG designers IN GENERAL who opt for such interactivity-removing features as pregenerated parties coupled with strictly linear(as in you might as well be reading a book) scenario/game design.

While there are surely exceptions, generally speaking, such authors operate from a pretentious sort of egotism in that they do not seem to think that RPGs should be a very intereactive affair. If the author of such games creates all the characters, removes all ability for the player to affect how the game plays out and such then what is left is a sort of "choose your own adventure" wherein you only have ONE CHOICE. Even if the solving of puzzles and whatnot is left up to the player, this is still just the player having to solve a puzzle in order to be allowed to turn the page in the book.

MY freaking GOD but you people are a sensitive bunch!

I gave Canopy an 8.0 at the CSR and I did not even dock points for linearity as it seemed relatively unimportant to me. I have not gotten through Bahsikava yet because I am kind of busy but what I have played of it, I like very much.

If someone were to take a look at my artwork adn say "He's good but I am not a big fan of that comic-book style of exaggerated realism." then I would accept that for what it is. An expression of personal taste(it would be different if he claimed that I could not draw my way out of a paper bag or something). I would not go to a message board and post rant after rant telling people who don't prefer my style to "**** OFF!" like Harloe did. I would not write article after article explaining why people who don't like my artistic style are "wrong" or even explaining that I employ said style because of restrictions in my ability to produce art.

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Linear Scenarios v. Non-Linear Scenarios: The doctrine of time = money in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 156
Profile #2
It's not just a rant. It's a misguided act of complete stupidity! Who told this moron he had to write scenarios a certain way?!? Was anybody proposing some sort of mandate by which all scenario authors should construct scenarios?

You feel unappreciated(for whatever bizarre, imagined reason) Harloe? Fine. Stop writing scenarios then. Or write them and send them only to specific people you think will truly appreciate your hard work.

But whatever you do, quit crying because some of us have our own preferences about general CRPG gameplay. For the most part I enjoy all the scenarios that have been written for BoA thus far and if there are any I ssupect I will not enjoy then I simply don't download them. I don't start a thread compalining that "I would like to download them if only they were less linear" or some crap!

You need to get over yourself chump.

[ Saturday, March 05, 2005 05:05: Message edited by: SkeleTony ]

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"I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi
Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00

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