8000: Pseudoscience Postravaganza
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, December 13 2006 16:10
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Today's name, Cold Fusion, is the net production of energy by nuclear fusion at room temperature. While experimenting with what essentially amounted to a kind of battery, two scientists in Utah observed the production of unusually large amounts of heat and immediately decided that it was due to nuclear fusion, despite being chemists with little background in nuclear physics. Observant readers may notice a common thread with other "discoveries" in this topic, in which an unusual observation is immediately explained in terms of the experimenter's pet theory. At any rate, other scientists were unable to replicate their results, and the results themselves weren't particularly consistent with fusion -- in particular, their battery wasn't producing ionising radiation, which would be expected if fusion was really taking place. So a couple of scientists were wrong; this happens all the time, and is neither surprising nor particularly bad in itself. Unfortunately, faced with the prospect of easy, near-limitless energy production, a lot of people just won't take no for an answer, and there are still people trying to build fusion reactors out of car batteries in their garages. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Wednesday, December 13 2006 18:21
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There were actually two different cold fusion experiments occuring at the same time. The more famous one was the Utah "battery" where they claimed to produce more energy than inputed. This one led to years of frustration trying to figure out how they first did it. The second one at the University of Arizona saw some fusion on a much smaller scale. Their results given here as one of their papers. Since this was not the amazing results seen in Utah it is usually forgotten. The Japanese have poured tons of money into research to get rid of their oil dependence. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Wednesday, December 13 2006 18:51
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I believe Backster did several follow-up tests to try to convince the rest of the understandably skeptical scientific community using electroencephalographs. I'll have to check on that, but regardless I think the Mythbusters busted this theory in one episode (not that Mythbusters isn't pseudoscience itself sometimes). -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 156
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written Wednesday, December 13 2006 19:17
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Sooner or later...someone will mention Creationism/"Intelligent Design". And then the world will go to Hell in a handbasket. -------------------- "I am in a very peculiar business. I travel all over the world telling people what they should already know." - James Randi Posts: 219 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Wednesday, December 13 2006 20:40
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There's always Flat Earth, the Moon missions are fake, canals of Mars (there was a report last week about recent water flows in the last few years), and my favorite Von Danikan books about aliens visiting Earth and creating the major monuments like the pyramids. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
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written Wednesday, December 13 2006 21:42
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quote:Don't go there. Just don't. -------------------- Do not provoke the turtles. They do not like being provoked. -Lenar My website: Nemesis' Refuge Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 09:03
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As much as it pains me to admit it, far too much of Creationist studies relies on pseudoscience. Speaking of Mars, I'd like to add a request: cover the people who claim that certain meteorites come from certain planets based on their mineral makeup. I'm still waiting for an explanation on how rocks on Mars were able to spontaneously achieve an escape velocity of five kilometres per second. -------------------- Here's hoping the next comic involves a frigid radioactive enema. Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 09:30
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This one is actually pretty solid. 1) Meteorite impacts on Mars, whose big craters we can easily see, can easily blast bits of Mars into space. 2) Trapped in these rock pores were gases, whose composition could be analyzed. It matched, to amazing precision, the composition of the Martian atmosphere, as measured by the mid-1970's Viking probes. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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FAQSELF
Member # 3
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 09:38
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quote:While there have been a few scientists who claim that some meteorites originated from planets other than Mars, the evidence for a Martian origin for Martian meteorites is pretty good. There are 3 lines of evidence that demonstrate some meteorites come from Mars- 1) atmospheric bubbles trapped in these meteorites closely match the known atmospheric composition of Mars as analyzed by the Viking lander. 2) the ages of these meteorites are actually pretty young (180 million years), which implies that wherever they came from is geologically active. That's pretty much synonymous with planetary, since asteroids cool too quickly to be geologically active. 3) the trace element chemistry of these meteorites matches predictions for what the trace element chemistry of Mars would be like (high in volatile elements, poor in refractories). Note that meteorite impacts are powerful- the impact that formed the Meteor Crater in Arizona released ~10^16 J of energy, more than enough to propel a few rocks into orbit. Meteor Crater is a pretty small, young crater, and we see thousands that are larger than it on the surface of Mars. Most of the Martian meteorites are small (<~1 kg), which is due to the selection effect of both the Martian atmosphere and the terrestrial atmosphere. So in short, it's definitely not pseudoscience. EDIT: Beaten by SoT! Oh well, this post adds a bit more. [ Thursday, December 14, 2006 09:40: Message edited by: Schrodinger ] -------------------- A few cats short of a kitten pot pie... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives. Check out a great source for information on Avernum 2, Nethergate, and Subterra: Zeviz's page. Finally, there's my Geneforge FAQ, Geneforge 2 FAQ, and Geneforge 3 FAQ. Posts: 2831 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 12:24
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The thing that really irritated me about the Martian Meteorite story was that it got a lot of popular media coverage, but you really had to dig to find the details of how anyone could be so confident of something so apparently preposterous. Dintiradan's reaction was the one every intelligent person should have been having immediately, but none of the many news stories about these funny rocks ever raised a peep. It was just 'about those rocks from Mars, now ...', as if rocks from other planets were on sale every week at Walmart. That people question scientific orthodoxy isn't anywhere near as big a problem as that nobody even seemed to realize how bizarre it was to claim to have found a rock from Mars. That's shocking scientific ignorance. If more people were like Dintiradan, we'd have a lot fewer people dismissing science, because the amazing facts and arguments of real science might actually get publicized, instead of the watered down drivel that is all most people are offered. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 12:26
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Alright. I can see that. It's just that the one source I've seen stating that was so weak I was sure it was pseudoscience. If I recall correctly, it went along the lines that a number of rocks were found with a certain mineral makeup, and one (or more, I can't remember) had what was thought to be a fossil (later debunked). Therefore, Mars had life at one point. -------------------- King Ralph is dead. Long live King Ed. Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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FAQSELF
Member # 3
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 12:49
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Yes, the Martian microbes story and hype resulted from a press-release-gone-wrong. I don't think it was the scientists' fault, since they also had to deal with criticism from the scientific front. The original scientific documentation was much more tentative and based on three points, 2 of which are now refuted. The first point was the shape of the purported fossils in the meteorite. The proposed bacteria were globular-like deposits in the meteorite that looked like terrestrial bacteria. However, features like these were shown to result from the preparation method employed by the scientists which forms these structures by accident. A second point was that their were organic compounds in the meteorite similar to those found in life. However, it seems as though there are organic compounds everywhere in space, so this isn't quite as surprising as originally thought. I think it also turned out that these organics were probably terrestrial contamination (the meteorite in which these things were found, ALH84001, has sat on the ice of Antarctica for a few million years). The third point is the presence of small grains of magnetite in the meteorite. The magnetite is chemically, mineralogically, and structurally identical to those formed by magnetotactic bacteria (here), and a non-biotic origin for these minerals is unknown. However, I agree that a healthy dose of skepticism is necessary for this last point, especially given the potential for contamination by terrestrial organisms. The press-scientist relationship is pretty awful in general. -------------------- A few cats short of a kitten pot pie... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives. Check out a great source for information on Avernum 2, Nethergate, and Subterra: Zeviz's page. Finally, there's my Geneforge FAQ, Geneforge 2 FAQ, and Geneforge 3 FAQ. Posts: 2831 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 14:56
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Today's name, Perpetual Motion, refers to any machine able to operate forever without an external source of input. This implies at a minimum that the machine operates entirely without friction or energy losses of any kind, and most perpetual motion machines are claimed by their inventors to actually produce energy. Perpetual motion machines tend to involve a few tried and true ideas: assemblies of weights on a wheel, magnets, hydraulics, or some combination of the above. Needless to say, they don't work. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 15:25
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I love the topic of perpetual motion machines. That was a surprisingly short post for such a constant, and entertaining, source of pseudoscience. If only someone could make one of those sipping bird novelties into a true perpetual motion device. I would pay top dollar for such a thing. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 18:44
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Wait..... You're telling me my windmill that powers a fan idea isn't a viable way to replace fossil fuels for good? Damn it. Back to the drawing table. Keep up the interesting posts; even if they do debunk all my greatest ideas. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 19:29
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There are also the perpetual motion devices that extract energy from a resistanceless electrical systems so the current constantly recharges the battery. How about patent # 6,960,975 was issued to Boris Volfson of Huntington, IN, wherein the device is described: quote: A cooled hollow superconductive shield is energized by an electromagnetic field resulting in the quantized vortices of lattice ions projecting a gravitomagnetic field that forms a spacetime curvature anomaly outside the space vehicle. The US patent office issued a patent for a warp drive. Although a patent can't be issued for a device that has already been published and for devices that defy the laws of nature. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 20:13
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quote:The patent system has been broken for a long time; nobody in patent offices really bothers to check the validity of patents any more, preferring to leave that to the courts if they're ever disputed. An Australian patented the wheel a few years ago. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 22:26
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Hm. Is fire still available? —Alorael, who hopes to collect huge royalties from raging wildfires in California. It's an absolute goldmine! Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5410
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written Friday, December 15 2006 10:23
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Note that the US Patent Trademark Office, broken though it may be, will not knowingly issue a patent for a perpetual motion machine. -------------------- "Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things." "You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares." Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Friday, December 15 2006 10:42
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Forget the Patents office. It's sad when Popular Science (or was it Mechanics?) publishes an ad for a perpetual motion device. -------------------- In the good old days physicists repeated each other's experiments, just to be sure. Today they stick to FORTRAN, so that they can share each other's programs, bugs included. - Edsger W. Dijkstra Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Friday, December 15 2006 18:14
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Your tone suggests that actually happened. Please tell me that is not true. The Patent Office once rejected an application for patenting all engines. Then the application was revised to include only engines that run on petroleum (meaning all oil based fossil fuels) and it passed through. Fortunately they revoked that patent soon thereafter. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, December 15 2006 23:34
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Today's name, Hollow Earth, is pretty much what it sounds like: the theory that Earth is actually hollow. But wait, there's more: there are entrances to the inside of the Earth at the north and south poles, there's a second sun in the centre of Earth, and an advanced civilisation (which, depending on who you ask, may or may not consist of reptilian Nazis) lives on Earth's inner surface. Hollow Earth theory has a history dating back to the 17th century -- back then, people at least had the excuse that explorers hadn't yet reached the north and south pole, and we didn't have modern seismographic techniques for examining the inner structure of Earth. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 00:56
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I like the variant of that theory, in which we're living on the inside. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 01:27
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If the Earth was hollow and we dug through the surface, wouldn't it just plain suck to jump in and spend the rest of your life falling toward the center, due to gravity? The momentum you got from falling in the first place would be enough to get you a good part of the way to the other side, but not all the way. So gravity would just take you back to where you started. Only, once again, not all the way. Eventually, wouldn't you end up just kind of floating at the center? -------------------- Do not provoke the turtles. They do not like being provoked. -Lenar My website: Nemesis' Refuge Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Saturday, December 16 2006 06:30
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Startlingly, if the earth were hollow there would be no gravity inside. That is, if it were a perfectly spherical shell: then the gravitational pull from the far side of the sphere would exactly balance the pull from the near side, wherever you were. Insofar as it were lumpy, or had big holes at the poles, there would be some gravity; but not very much. The main gravity-like effects would just be centrifugal force pushing people outwards (as long as they were rotating with the earth), plus coriolis effects, which would be pretty confusing. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |