What is better Shapers or Rebels?

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AuthorTopic: What is better Shapers or Rebels?
Apprentice
Member # 13870
Profile #0
kind of self explainitory -- What is better?

[ Monday, February 25, 2008 13:20: Message edited by: I9am8shaper7hear6me5roar49 ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 29 user(s) have voted.

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" When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here cease, I want they bury me upsidedown, so my critics can kiss my *** "
- Bob Knight

Welcome to Spiderweb, newcomer. Leave your sanity at the door.
-Taliesin
Posts: 7 | Registered: Wednesday, February 6 2008 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 13870
Profile #1
Feel free to post

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" When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here cease, I want they bury me upsidedown, so my critics can kiss my *** "
- Bob Knight

Welcome to Spiderweb, newcomer. Leave your sanity at the door.
-Taliesin
Posts: 7 | Registered: Wednesday, February 6 2008 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7557
Profile #2
We can post anyway.

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*Eyes potential targets*
Posts: 942 | Registered: Sunday, October 8 2006 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 10578
Profile Homepage #3
Well, at least this one's pretty straightforward.

Welcome to Spiderweb, newcomer. Leave your sanity at the door.

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Love is the movement.
Posts: 432 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2007 07:00
Agent
Member # 8030
Profile Homepage #4
You said "shapers of rebels" twice.

I usually side with the rebels in any game, especially A Small Rebellion.

[ Wednesday, February 06, 2008 15:19: Message edited by: Excalibur ]

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Decca Records - "We don't like their sound. Groups of guitars are on the way out."
Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00
Agent
Member # 4574
Profile #5
Trakovites.

No, actually the Rebels. Probably because of my disposition to the Awakened since G1. I suppose I'm just reconciling it as "agressive negotiation". Shapers are tyrannical. Idealists have no place in the world. Thus endeth my wondering on which side I want to win.

In other news, I've concluded that older members like myself are more likely to side with the Rebels, and the newer players with the Shapers. Because, even I will admit, the Shapers look very appealing as you wander around in G4. Same could be said of the Trakovites though. But they're idealists.

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"I'm happy I'm the mentally disturbed person I am." -Nioca
"Yes, Iffy is a demon." -Iffy
"All (Spiderweb) servers should be taken down, erased, and then subjected to dissolution by alkahest." -Alorael
Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 14032
Profile #6
The Shapers are almost always the best, cruel though they ma be. Also, if you dislike the canister effect the shapers will teach you by leaps and bounds. They also have their superority, their mutant armies, and their numbers.

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If I didn't like BOA I would probably like Boa constrictors or the ocean which ever

If you don't like Geneforge, then you're a rogue creation and must be destroyed.

Guess what if you're not insane you shouldn't be at this forum

Avernum always wins, that's just how it is
Posts: 4 | Registered: Monday, February 11 2008 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #7
Must. . . resist. . . urge. . . to make a debate. . .

Shapers. The Rebels are far too desperate and uncaring for civilian lives. Not to mention that their leaders are inherently violent, careening down a path to total insanity, squabbling, and in G4, bureaucratic.

The Trakovites are the kind of people that want to destroy all nuclear weapons, not realizing that that is all that keeps the peace.

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Fear us, mortals, but never envy, for though we burn with power, our fuel is our sorrows.

Indeed, mortals, we envy you.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 9906
Profile Homepage #8
Oh, I see, mass genocide is O.k., but trying to defend yourself against people who want to kill you is bad, hm very intresting logic.

Of course this isn't all of it, if you really want to debate, resurrect the Revised Political poll.

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For Auir! -Tassadar
I will rule this sector or see it burnt around me! -Arcturus Mengsk
Ghaal Korra!
No matter what name I have, people can call me Xel
Pylons!
Posts: 301 | Registered: Tuesday, August 21 2007 07:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #9
quote:
Originally written by Agrajag:

The Trakovites are the kind of people that want to destroy all nuclear weapons, not realizing that that is all that keeps the peace.
No countries having nuclear weapons is the same as all countries having them. The only difference is that if none exist at all, there's no chance of anybody being mad enough to actually use one.

Anyway. Rebels. The only time I've ever been swayed was the ending of GF4. On my first play through I destroyed the Unbound - rather that the war grind on with the chance for peace then everybody die in a hellish blaze.

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Nikki's Nook - forget about your house of cards, and I'll deal mine.
Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #10
I am a Tullegolite. We believe in human superiority over creations as well as weaker restriction on shaping. Given the choice between the Shapers and Rebels, we would sooner give up our shaping rights than bow to creation. Thus, I would side with the Shapers.

The Shapers are guilty of genocide, but I can not hold it against them. They make it their business to eliminate threats to their people, much like we in the real world will eliminate certain species of bacteria and virus because of the threats they pose to us. Their intentions are good, and, I'll bet if you asked them, Shapers would most likely regret having to eliminate these species because of all the potential research and discoveries lost through their extinction.

As for Trakovites, you can not compare shaping to nuclear weapons. Do nuclear weapons have the ability to create life? The ability to create new life is infinitely more valuable and far outweighs shaping's destructive powers.

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 12720
Profile #11
And how do nuclear weapons maintain peace? through the fear factor?...fear has been the cause of many conflicts in the past.
Before saying such things you should also bear in mind that nuclear weapons are not meant to be used on military units but on cities(civilian population!!!). And most of the time the owners of powerful weapons do not use them to maintain peace but to bully other parties in order to receive some sort of benefit.
And to return to the topic at hand i must say that i resent the rebels because they make rogue creations and because they say that they want revenge, but all they want is to replace the shapers. I am with the shapers, but i believe that they should loose their arrogance.
Posts: 48 | Registered: Thursday, December 20 2007 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #12
Nuclear weapons wasn't the best comparison, but it wasn't the worst, either.

And nuclear weapon-imposed peace works the following way: Don't attack, because they might use them.

Not the best peacekeeping method, certainly, because eventually someone will use them.

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Fear us, mortals, but never envy, for though we burn with power, our fuel is our sorrows.

Indeed, mortals, we envy you.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #13
quote:
Originally written by Xel'Raga the Slaughtering Omni:

Oh, I see, mass genocide is O.k., but trying to defend yourself against people who want to kill you is bad, hm very intresting logic.
You are truly clueless. Anyone who has EVER backed the Shapers has admitted that they have done horrible things. There's no denying the fact that the Shapers have been cruel and heartless. However, they do know what's best when it comes to Shaping. Unfortunately, the cruelty is a side-effect of the responsibilities that come with shaping. So it's a necessary evil.

Look at the flip-side of the coin, though. The Rebels aren't defending themselves against people who want to kill them, but instead gunning down anyone who gets in their way, slaughtering people who have little or nothing to do with the events that are transpiring. Oh, sure, occasionally they manage to bring down a member of the Shaper regime, but their civilian-to-shaper ratio is out of control.

Now, if the human side of the rebellion was an applicable choice, that's who I'd go for. They'd rather die than stoop to the Drakon's level. But it's not. And in Terrestria, for now, the only good Drakon is a dead one (not that all Drakons need to die; just the majority of the newest generation who are bent on killing anything which doesn't bow to them).

Therefore, Shapers.

(I don't mean to turn this into a debate or to get overly touchy, but I am sick of hearing how the Shapers are irrevocably evil hellspawn and how the Rebels are saints. To use Kelandon's line, they both suck. I just think the Shapers aren't quite as awful as the Rebels.)

EDIT: Clarification.

[ Tuesday, February 12, 2008 13:55: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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Hz'ii'zt a'iiencf coxnen a'bn'z'p pahuen yzpa'zuhb be'tt'phukh'kn az'ii'ova mxn't bhcizvi'fl?

Nioca's Citadel - A resource for BoA graphics and scripts, as well as my scenarios.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #14
Yeah, what Nioca said. The Rebels started out with the right ideas, but they were never going to win with ideals and nice words to the Shapers.

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Nikki's Nook - forget about your house of cards, and I'll deal mine.
Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 9906
Profile Homepage #15
Why do I have a feeling that this topic is gonna end like this topic?

After all Nicoa and Nayld where in the last one, and I bet that L.T. is gonna pop up any second.

quote:
You are clueless
You are ignorant, you didn't read my next line , IT GETS MORE COMPLICATED sheesh, I just didn't feel like writing for a half hour just to say what I said in the revised Poll topic.

And the Rebellion and the Drakons should be two separate fractions, and also I do not think the Shapers are Hell-spawn, I think that the high up people are corrupt windbags, and yes the Shapers are a lot better than Drakons, not better than the rebellion(human)

[ Tuesday, February 12, 2008 14:25: Message edited by: Xel'Raga ]

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For Auir! -Tassadar
I will rule this sector or see it burnt around me! -Arcturus Mengsk
Ghaal Korra!
No matter what name I have, people can call me Xel
Pylons!
Posts: 301 | Registered: Tuesday, August 21 2007 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 12720
Profile #16
So much "passion" just because of a game :rolleyes: :(
Posts: 48 | Registered: Thursday, December 20 2007 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 9906
Profile Homepage #17
Not passion for a game, but passion for the plot, if you want games with stupid plot, play avernum, fun game just no originality

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For Auir! -Tassadar
I will rule this sector or see it burnt around me! -Arcturus Mengsk
Ghaal Korra!
No matter what name I have, people can call me Xel
Pylons!
Posts: 301 | Registered: Tuesday, August 21 2007 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #18
You're just ticking off everyone today, aren't you?

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Hz'ii'zt a'iiencf coxnen a'bn'z'p pahuen yzpa'zuhb be'tt'phukh'kn az'ii'ova mxn't bhcizvi'fl?

Nioca's Citadel - A resource for BoA graphics and scripts, as well as my scenarios.
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #19
As of A5, Avernum has a serious theme as well as a cool setting. For the first time I find myself caring equally what happens next in Geneforge and in Avernum.

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Listen carefully because some of your options may have changed.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 9906
Profile Homepage #20
quote:
You're just ticking off everyone today, aren't you?
Not intentionally.

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For Auir! -Tassadar
I will rule this sector or see it burnt around me! -Arcturus Mengsk
Ghaal Korra!
No matter what name I have, people can call me Xel
Pylons!
Posts: 301 | Registered: Tuesday, August 21 2007 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #21
The Rebels believe the right things but do the wrong ones. Even without the instability of the drakons added to the mix, they're still guilty of too many terrible things in the name of the greater good.

The Shapers don't have high ideals. They have practical desires to maintain peace and prosperity. The extreme Shapers are repugnant, but the moderates are actually fine. The Shapers are much better at getting what they want done and they're at least more realistic about the damage they cause.

—Alorael, who thinks the Trakovites are clinging to an outdated dream. They're the Luddites of Geneforge, and nobody can stand in the way of progress like that.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #22
That's all true, except ... except ...

The appealingly reasonable moderate Shapers are a nice coat of paint on the bars of a cage. The cage won't break without violence. How many centuries of slavery does it take to outweigh a year of war?

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Listen carefully because some of your options may have changed.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 9906
Profile Homepage #23
Hmm.... Travokites, the Hippies of Terrestia

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For Auir! -Tassadar
I will rule this sector or see it burnt around me! -Arcturus Mengsk
Ghaal Korra!
No matter what name I have, people can call me Xel
Pylons!
Posts: 301 | Registered: Tuesday, August 21 2007 07:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #24
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

That's all true, except ... except ...

The appealingly reasonable moderate Shapers are a nice coat of paint on the bars of a cage. The cage won't break without violence. How many centuries of slavery does it take to outweigh a year of war?

True, but the Shapers have been showing an increasingly moderate trend.

Also, one thing that is increasingly forgotten: With a few very rare exceptions, like serviles, Servant Minds, or Drayks, the creations are little more than animals, bred specifically to serve, and enjoy it.

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Fear us, mortals, but never envy, for though we burn with power, our fuel is our sorrows.

Indeed, mortals, we envy you.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00

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