Avernum 4 Complete Wish List

Pages

AuthorTopic: Avernum 4 Complete Wish List
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #175
quote:
Originally written by Mortimer:

quote:
Originally written by Lt. Sullust:

Oh, so you never put pants on your characters?
No, commando is when you don't wear any underwear, pants themselves are fine.

Correction. Commando is when you don't wear underwear with a kilt.

As an actual every day kilt wearer, I felt the need to point this out. I no longer wear pants. At all. Ever. No more chafing and bunching. No more underpants.

Ah, freedom.

And to stay on topic, I would like to see kilts or male unbifurcated garmets (MUG) as a clothing option in AIV.

--------------------
If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 5368
Profile #176
Its fine until a rabid corgie goes and gives you a bloody anatomy lesson. Ouch.
Posts: 43 | Registered: Friday, January 7 2005 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #177
That's why you need the skean dhu.

--------------------
We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #178
I dare say a kilt offers more protection in that situation then a pair of troosers.

Take a normal kilt, 13 to 22 ounce wool. Now, that's roughly 8 to 9 yards of cloth around your middle. That's roughly 24 to 27 feet of thick heavy fabric. There is a reason they call them tanks. There are two aprons, and piles of pleats. Your dangly bits are well wrapped and well protected. There is also (usually) a heavy sporran hanging in front that keeps everything weighted down ever more. It's going to take a lot of effort and a lot of work for a dog to even find their way through all this fabric.

Now, pants... Pants are made from light thin fabric. Anywhere from 4 ounce to 12 ounce, usually in a cotton twill. Most are about 8 ounces. A dog's teeth can puncture right through this with no effort what so ever and they can gnaw on your dangly bits. And there is no sporran, no form for groin protection, nothing slowing down the advancing canine that wants to bite your snausage.

Frankly, I'd rather take my chances kilted.

And as for the black knife, I agree. It works quite well on anything that might be bothering you, dog or idiot human that tries to lift your kilt.

--------------------
If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #179
You've got to admire a culture in which the traditional formal dress includes a secret sock knife. Though in recent times it has been made less secret, to the point of flashy jewelled hilts. But the 'dhu' part originally meant that it was hidden, at least as I was told when I wore one. And there are suspect traditions about not drawing it except to draw blood, blah blah blah. The main reason not to draw it is to avoid slicing your calf.

--------------------
We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 643
Profile #180
Heh, my posts seem to generate such wonderful off topics.

--------------------
Fine Meal is people!!!
Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #181
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

You've got to admire a culture in which the traditional formal dress includes a secret sock knife. Though in recent times it has been made less secret, to the point of flashy jewelled hilts. But the 'dhu' part originally meant that it was hidden, at least as I was told when I wore one. And there are suspect traditions about not drawing it except to draw blood, blah blah blah. The main reason not to draw it is to avoid slicing your calf.
Actually, in polite trusted company or for fancy dress, it is tucked into the sock where people can see. For all other purposes, it is kept hidden, usually tucked away in the reversed pleat or secreted under the outer apron. That's the whole point of the Black Knife.

And you are correct. You don't pull it out in a crowd unless you plan to draw blood... It's rude and if you pull it out suddenly, people will assume you are about to attack and act accordingly. That said, it is perfectly acceptable to pull it out at a table for eating purposes and such.

--------------------
If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #182
Actually, it's only appropriate to pull it out at the table if the meat is very rare.

—Alorael, who now wonders if concealed knives are covered by concealed carry laws. It seems at least possible that it's more legal to hide a gun than a knife.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #183
quote:
Originally written by Fissure of Men:

Actually, it's only appropriate to pull it out at the table if the meat is very rare.

—Alorael, who now wonders if concealed knives are covered by concealed carry laws. It seems at least possible that it's more legal to hide a gun than a knife.

That's silly. :P

In all honesty, most dirks came as part of full kit. There was a little fork and an even smaller knife. It was a practical every day sort of thing. Modern dirks, or Black Knives, are ceremonial tokens. Modern dirks are not suitable for table use. The proper term is Sgian Dubh, which literally translated means Black Knife.

IMAGE(http://images.andale.com/f2/109/123/13478428/1121636093041_baltda3.JPG)

[ Wednesday, July 20, 2005 13:19: Message edited by: Delicious Vlish ]

--------------------
If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #184
Mmm, at least for the Highland regiments in the British army (and their colonial affiliates), dirks and skean dhus (the older way of writing it, doubtless less phonetically accurate) are quite distinct pieces of kit. All officers wear skean dhus, tucked halfway into their left socks, just below the knee. Only colonels also wear dirks, which are much bigger, on their belts. The dirk scabbards do indeed often hold tiny forks and other utensils.

The only customary use of the dirk at table is when the colonel ceremonially stabs the haggis, at which point the less civilized members present supply the supposed groans of the wounded beast. The second in command of the haggis party then proffers the napkin on which to clean the dirk, and the haggis is marched back off to the kitchen to be dismembered and served. The haggis party retires to a back room and downs a bottle of Drambuie (between them, thank heavens), quickly enough that they return to platters of haggis that are enhanced by a distinct spin.

--------------------
We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #185
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

Mmm, at least for the Highland regiments in the British army (and their colonial affiliates), dirks and skean dhus (the older way of writing it, doubtless less phonetically accurate) are quite distinct pieces of kit. All officers wear skean dhus, tucked halfway into their left socks, just below the knee. Only colonels also wear dirks, which are much bigger, on their belts. The dirk scabbards do indeed often hold tiny forks and other utensils.

The only customary use of the dirk at table is when the colonel ceremonially stabs the haggis, at which point the less civilized members present supply the supposed groans of the wounded beast. The second in command of the haggis party then proffers the napkin on which to clean the dirk, and the haggis is marched back off to the kitchen to be dismembered and served. The haggis party retires to a back room and downs a bottle of Drambuie (between them, thank heavens), quickly enough that they return to platters of haggis that are enhanced by a distinct spin.

For the poor oppressed ragged Scot, the Black Knife was whatever sharp pokey object he could tuck away and keep hidden, so that he could defend himself. And yes, there is a big difference between military and actual civilian tradition. Both are valid. Not every Scot was in the service, though many did because it allowed them to wear their clothes and celebrate their culture. A crappy thing to do to a people, hold their culture hostage.

Sgain Dhub is just about an old of term that you could get... I am a Dhubglas. Meaning Black and Gray. The spelling that you keep posting is a bastardised version, more typical with products bought from Pakistan, ie, the cheap flimsy knockoffs that mimic the real thing.

You are quite correct though, for the most part, with the military tradition. There are however, even older traditions than those. Most so called traditions however, are falsehoods. Highly romanticised crap invented by Holywood or by false oral tradition. Like, hmm, entitlement. With few exceptions, pretty much any person, of any race, can wear whichever tartan they like. But always know the history of it in case you run into the real deal. (Somebody like me that might grill you on what you are wearing and why)

This is not a good place to discuss this though. If you would like, stop by here and you will find a wealth of information. And you can find me there. IM me and I will send you my user name.

I must warn you though, visiting may turn you in to a full time kilt wearer.

--------------------
If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #186
I'm by no means a general expert on highland things, but I spent several years in highland regiments in the Canadian army reserves (pretty much like the British TA). Several Canadian regiments are warmly accepted cadet branches of old British army ones -- the Black Watch, for instance -- and carefully maintain the same traditions.

The Canadian Black Watch is based in Montreal, though, where kilts are a bit problematic in winter. Not nearly as bad as one might think, since heat rises, but still you think twice about wearing one all the time.

I'm not sure where my skean dhu came from, but it was probably some perfectly pukka source, since it was my father's from the days when the Canadian Black Watch was part of the regular army, after Korea, in the sixties. I think the spelling I use comes from regimental dress manuals, which are a peculiar tradition of their own.

[ Wednesday, July 20, 2005 16:20: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ]

--------------------
We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #187
I like DV's spelling better. It's much nicer.

--------------------
My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art
The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community
The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database
Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database
BoE Webring - Self explanatory
Polaris - Free porn here
Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too)
They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance
--------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #188
It is, and I'm sure it's also more correct. I'm just stuck with my own spelling for traditional reasons.

Thanks for the link, DV. I already knew enough about what it says of the history of kilts and tartans, to recognize that it is the straight dope. My father used to cite McClintock as an authority for his skeptical attitude to supposed Scottish traditions; but I had never myself seen the contents of his book discussed.

I'm afraid I don't actually plan on taking up wearing kilts again, though. I'll be trying to seem as little strange as I can, as a new professor in a German university.

The one kilt I have owned was made in Scotland, but I was never happy with the weirdly bright interpretation they made of the famous (and ubiquitous) Government Tartan. A much more cheerful style for a civilian kilt, sure, but I would have been happier with the traditional military version that just looks black from any distance. Grrr. At least they got it pleated to line, in the military way, instead of to sett.

[ Wednesday, July 20, 2005 17:22: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ]

--------------------
We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
Profile #189
A proper winter weight kilt and leggings offers far more protection in deep winder than pants. It's like gloves vs mittens. Mittens keep your hands warmer because of the open space and shared warmth. But you are going to want a heavy weight kilt. Highland regiments wore them in the Great Wars and had fewer problems with frostbite then the soldiers wearing woollen troosers. Like anything else in the winter, you must accesorise properly. A good 16 to 22 ounce kilt will trap in several layers of air and develop a thermal pocket... A space of hot air that will actually drive the cold air out. Wear proper hose, along with leggings, and good boots, and you will be much warmer than those wearing bifurcated garmets. An Iverness Cape or a great coat, proper headgear, and layers of warm breathable fabric around your central torso to lock in core body temperature will keep you quite toasty, sweaty even, even in temps well below zero.

I am curious about why you felt kilts were a problem in cold weather. One of two things must have happened. The Canadian Armed Forces must be poorly equipped with second rate equipment, which I sincerely doubt... Or there was a lack of proper accesorisation. Scots have been wearing kilts, and great kilts, in extreme cold conditions for centuries and they have proved to be remarkably hardy.

I have an 8 yard heavy weight kilt in the Am Freiceadan Dubh Tartan. (Black Watch) It's quite lovely. It's also to damn heavy and hot to wear in the summer.

It's good to see others in touch with traditions.

:)

Edit.

My Black Watch kilt is frequently mistaken for being solid black at a distance. I know exactly what you mean!

[ Wednesday, July 20, 2005 17:30: Message edited by: Delicious Vlish ]

--------------------
If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish.

Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish.
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #190
That was the other problem with my Scottish-made kilt: it was very light weight. The army-issue kilts are indeed very heavy, but I never actually wore one in winter. Officers were expected to buy their own, thus my light, bright variant. I couldn't afford to replace it. I didn't complain in the summer, and in the winter I walked briskly to the armory.

--------------------
We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 643
Profile #191
Ok ... so, in conclusion, Stealth should make a return to Avernum 4 and the new kilt item should give you a 10% resistance bonus to cold attacks.

Heh, sorry.

--------------------
Fine Meal is people!!!
Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #192
Yes, this kilt conversation would be better suited to PMs.

--------------------
"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #193
Aw, and I thought Mortimer had us covered brilliantly. Well, maybe A4 will include haggis as a substitute for those endless mushrooms, and then the impartial judgement of history will absolve us.
Until then, no more irrelevance. Irrelevance never forget.

[ Thursday, July 21, 2005 05:53: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ]

--------------------
We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5785
Profile #194
"Commando" -> Pants -> Kilt -> Scotts -> Scottish culture -> Scottish weapon customs -> Appropiate behavior with drawing weapon and the use of it -> Scotts in Canada? -> Canadian Army?

I lost track in the end, but that is how this conversation has developed, right?

Here is a more intresting question: What the hell has this to do with Avernum 4? Get back to the topic, maybe.

[ Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:08: Message edited by: Contra ]

--------------------
"..The seventh wave of Thrall stumbled and climbed over the slippery, piled dead and Mazzarin saw The Watcher with them and at last knew the number of his days."
Posts: 522 | Registered: Wednesday, May 4 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #195
:mad: cries* T_T

What in the hell? Take this outright spam to the Richard White boards! Leave my sacred topic alone! Amazing how you lamebrains can take Avernum 4 suggestions conversation and sling it all the way to the finer points of kilt wearing.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #196
One of the pillars of SW forum culture is that you don't have any ownership over the topics you make, and you can't expect them to stay on topic forever. Sorry to disappoint you.

--------------------
The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #197
Feel proud you've created a successful topic, though. My best effort resulted in a 10-pager, but that was on General. I can't say I've done anything in the game boards that has beaten more than a few pages.

At any rate, it might be best to let this topic die a natural death at this point, unless anyone else has something genuinely interesting to add.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3513
Profile Homepage #198
It would be interesting if you could equip a dagger in a secondary weapon slot to give a bonus to assassination

--------------------
Nobody appreciates me. It's all "Igor! Fetch some wine!" "Igor! Clean up this experiment!" or "Igor! Bury this in the garden, we're leaving town in 10 minutes!"

—Alorael, who tried to become a deivore once. The priest gave him a funny look after the third wafer.
Posts: 301 | Registered: Thursday, October 2 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #199
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

Well, maybe A4 will include haggis as a substitute for those endless mushrooms.
Have you forgotten the delightful "weird meat" strewn throughout Avernums 1-3?

—Alorael, who doesn't see how a knife would help with assassination since, in Avernum, assassination seems to be the face-to-face kind, not the subtle kind. A successful Avernite assassin wears plate armor, carries a halberd, and probably sprays blood everywhere when carrying out his job.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00

Pages