Avernum 4 Complete Wish List

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AuthorTopic: Avernum 4 Complete Wish List
Apprentice
Member # 6019
Profile #100
quote:
Originally written by Fear or Favor?:

Exile has undead turning in the same way as Avernum: spells.

Avernum has a single area spell: Cloud of Blades. It's not a fireball. I agree that the endless spells of dubious utility were fun, and area spells actually made combat require a little bit of thought.

Since the XP cap vanished in A3/BoA, I doubt we'll see it again. But you never know.

—Alorael, who isn't sure about free graphics engines. If the graphics aren't free, they're still a cost. If they're large, it hurts Jeff's mission of making his games downloadable to everyone. If they're free, then he risks having his game look like it's made with free graphics, which is "less professional" or something. And if the engine is 3D, Jeff has to program around that. 3D isn't Exile/Avernum, either.

A3 had the skill cap... I remember because I stopped playing around when I reached the golems for the first time. I had hit the cap. Can you imagine playing an RPG for another 20 hours without a single level gain? Yikes...
Posts: 4 | Registered: Saturday, June 25 2005 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #101
I gained levels all the way through ...

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
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Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
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You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #102
BigBob: If you actually want to address Jeff, you should probably e-mail him. He doesn't read these boards.

Also, you're mixing up some terminology. None of the Avernums have had a skill cap that you would ever reach (~100). A1 and A2 had level caps that were somewhat painful. If there was one in A3, it was much higher — I don't remember hitting it.

BoA is pretty much free from that cap, though, so I doubt A4 will have any problems with it.

In general: Jeff has already finished the engine, presumably. We do know that is new. How new is uncertain, though.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #103
Ok, not being able to level up anymore was far from enough to make me actually quit playing the great game... It wasn't that bad as I remember it, but yea, it was lame all the same. :rolleyes:

Character cuztomization doesn't feel quite there yet in Avernum series (the generally linear spell progressions don't help either!), so a D&D-style feats mechanic will truly help that.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3513
Profile Homepage #104
Okay, for those of us who don't play DnD, what are feats?

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Nobody appreciates me. It's all "Igor! Fetch some wine!" "Igor! Clean up this experiment!" or "Igor! Bury this in the garden, we're leaving town in 10 minutes!"

—Alorael, who tried to become a deivore once. The priest gave him a funny look after the third wafer.
Posts: 301 | Registered: Thursday, October 2 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #105
Every few levels you can pick a feat, which gives you a boost in something, a new ability, a new way to use an old ability, or something of the like. Sometimes you have to have some prerequisite feat or abilities already. They're much akin to perks in Fallout, if you're familiar with those games, and I'm sure other games have examples as well.

They come down to a form of character customization based on adding a number of single things from a list instead of increasing a number (although some feats/perks do just increase numbers).

Put another way, feats are exactly like traits in Avernum, except you get new ones every few levels and sometimes you have to meat requirements before you can add it to a character.

—Alorael, who doesn't like the idea of feats in Avernum, as he said. He doesn't even love levels. Nethergate's skill system was great even if it was slightly abusable.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 247
Profile Homepage #106
No I meant tea-totting. Just like gun-totting, book-totting, note-totting, and whatever else can be totted aii.

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The Knight Between Posts.
Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #107
"Toting." Tea-toting.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #108
Where would the third game be set? If at all possible, spanning the entire world.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #109
Setting? Hm... this has definitely been debated (and is still far from settled), but I think that the best settings would be either deep in Vahnatai lands or deep in Empire territory (i.e.: the capital province).

Basically, you need somewhere a little fresh (i.e.: not Valorim), unless you pay immense attention to the details of what's left in that area at the game's time (i.e.: Tower of Magi between A2 & 3). However, it can't be too far removed from the action, though the Vahnatai would likely make sure that everywhere on the surface is involved/attacked.

Thus, for freshness and connection to the plot, it should either be the Empire's capital or the Vahnatai homelands.

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #110
The vahnatai lands of A2 are the vahnatai homeland for the particular clan seen in A2 and A3. Whoever is left with Rentar-Ihrno is probably settling a new area, which wouldn't be any more impressive than the new cities and old ruins in A2.

—Alorael, who would like a little bit of Jeff's take on the slith homeland. If he threw in Lost B in A1, the least he could do is give it some thought in A4. Just a little reference would do.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #111
I've added a new suggestion about removing the level caps. They were pointless and some people disliked them so much they stopped playing the game.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #112
And let me stress the importance of the next Avernum game having good graphics. There are many gamers in this world that say graphics matter for nothing and all other elements of the game such as interaction and gameplay and story only matter. Well, that's a plain lie. Graphics and captivating music are as important to enjoying a game as any other element. Avernum 4 doesn't have to have beautiful graphics and certainly not polygonal graphics but passable graphics are a must if after 10 years Jeff wishes to bring his company to common knowledge.

Don't tell me what Jeff CAN'T do, because he sure proved there was a whole lot he CAN do with his Geneforge trilogy.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #113
If you want flashy graphics and music, you may be playing games from the wrong company. Jeff has tossed music entirely overboard and has no real way of creating any at this point, short of hiring an entirely new person. Also, GF's graphics were hardly spectacular by NWN or WoW standards, so I don't think that shows much of anything.

Gameplay is what SW is known for, and that's what I hope Jeff sticks with in A4.

EDIT: I think that A4's graphics will look a lot like GF's graphics, for what that's worth.

[ Sunday, June 26, 2005 10:58: Message edited by: Manhood Typing Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 5437
Profile #114
quote:
Originally written by Manhood Typing Kelandon:

I think that A4's graphics will look a lot like GF's graphics, for what that's worth.
The one thing I don't want to see in A4 is for it to turn into GF, oh well.
Posts: 2032 | Registered: Wednesday, January 26 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #115
quote:
Originally written by Verelor:

And let me stress the importance of the next Avernum game having good graphics.
Oh, good. I missed it the first few times it came up! And as I already said, while graphics are nice, there is definitely such a thing as too much of them (not that Spiderweb is at risk of that!).

The level cap simply isn't there in A3/BoA. Really. I don't expect it to come back.

—Alorael, who risks exposing his inner evil dictator as he suggests that you edit posts to add more text instead of double posting.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #116
If Avernum 4 turns out to be Geneforge 3 in Avernum clothing, it would, in fact, be lame. It would only help, however, if Avernum 4 borrowed a few Geneforge elements.

This is yet another shameless plug for the little-known but great game Lords of Magic, but I'd like to see something a little more in the flavor of that when SW gets to starting a new series.

It would be of benefit if SW finally changed those old item graphics they feel like shamelessly recycling for every new game.

I notice all of Geneforge games and Avernum games use bitmap (.bmp) images for all the graphics files in their games. Bitmaps are outdated, unprofessional, and worst of all take up way more memory than they should. If Jeff makes a much more good looking game for Avernum 4 but switches to a better, smaller image type like JPEG or GIF, the file size would just about balance out anyway.

Finally, to the person who said prismatics like a prismatic wall spell would be too D&D-like, bow to my geekness! Item number 495 in Avernum 3 is prismatic mail, and number 473 is a prismatic torc!!!

[ Sunday, June 26, 2005 13:49: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #117
High-technology graphics aren't the same as good graphics. Polygonal graphics, for example, still haven't reached the point where they can look as pretty as 2D art. And frankly, games with plain old 2D tile-based graphics are often a lot more playable than isometric or 3D graphics, which both make navigation confusing at times even when done well.

I'm not entirely sure why you think the item graphics need changing; they look nice enough and you can tell what they're meant to represent.

By the way, JPEG and GIF aren't really appropriate for the sort of graphics Jeff works with. JPEG is bad for small, detailed images, and GIF only supports 256 colours. PNG would be a better choice (although file sizes aren't always as impressively small). Unfortunately, Jeff's probably going to work with what he finds easiest to work with, because he is by his own admission not exactly the world's greatest programmer.

[ Sunday, June 26, 2005 16:16: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #118
GIF is only a max of 256 colors? That sucks, but I guess you learn something every day.

About the item graphics: it's not that they are bad or anything, it's just the exact same ones we've all seen for years.

[ Sunday, June 26, 2005 17:58: Message edited by: Verelor ]
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #119
quote:
Originally written by Verelor:

About the item graphics: it's not that they are bad or anything, it's just the exact same ones we've all seen for years.
All of Jeff's games so far have been written in the English language. Does that mean he should start writing his games in Esperanto for the sake of adding a little variety?

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #120
quote:
Originally written by Verelor:

Where would the third game be set? If at all possible, spanning the entire world.
Do you have any idea how big the world is? Avernum 4 wouldn't be out for years.

Graphics are important to enjoying a game, but just because they're advanced doesn't mean that they'll make the game more enjoyable. Exile's graphics make me enjoy the game much more than Avernum's or Geneforge's.

Level caps do not exist in Avernum 3 and Blades of Avernum.

Jeff currently uses BMPs and PICTs for his graphics, since they're the easiest to program (or something). I wouldn't mind seeing PNGs either, since they'd be instantly more cross-platform.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #121
quote:
All of Jeff's games so far have been written in the English language. Does that mean he should start writing his games in Esperanto for the sake of adding a little variety?
No, considering he has a dominantly english-speaking demographic of players. You're changing the scenario here anyway by giving an example of language. :)
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #122
He also has a dominantly "liking the old item graphics" demographic.

And you'd be surprised by the number of non-native English speakers who play and register the games.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy
Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #123
By that logic, he should make a quarter of his games in Finnish.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 6002
Profile #124
How the hell would you play one of his games if you couldn't understand english, specially since half the fun is plot development. It's like impossible, much less to enjoy them.
Posts: 131 | Registered: Wednesday, June 22 2005 07:00

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