We know about Geneforge 3...but what's next?

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Author	Topic: We know about Geneforge 3...but what's next?
Kyna Infiltrator Member # 2628	written Friday, June 4 2004 17:41 Profile Homepage #25 Isn't the first RPG the text-based classic caves game? I remember playing that before computer games used graphics. -------------------- We meet and part now over all the world; we, the lost company, take hands together in the night, forget the night in our brief happiness, silently. -- Judith Wright My website Posts: 512 \| Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Friday, June 4 2004 17:51 Profile Homepage #26 I have nothing against text adventures, I just thought I might start him off with something slightly less unfamiliar. -------------------- I'd be tender, I'd be gentle And awful sentimental Regarding love and art I'd be friends with the sparrows And the boy who shoots the arrows, If I only had a heart. Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Sound Effect Shock Trooper Member # 1723	written Friday, June 4 2004 20:04 Profile #27 Would that qualify the Legend of Zelda series as a graphical adventure? -------------------- This signature brought to you courtesy of idiots everywhere. -Thanks go out to: GIFTS ben* random newbies Posts: 277 \| Registered: Tuesday, August 13 2002 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Friday, June 4 2004 20:20 Profile Homepage #28 No. Adventures tend not to have much combat, or at least to not be based around it. -------------------- I'd be tender, I'd be gentle And awful sentimental Regarding love and art I'd be friends with the sparrows And the boy who shoots the arrows, If I only had a heart. Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Sound Effect Shock Trooper Member # 1723	written Friday, June 4 2004 20:28 Profile #29 Something Geneforge-esque in the style of Parasite Eve would certainly be welcome here. I always was quite partial to that game; pity the sequel was wretched. -------------------- This signature brought to you courtesy of idiots everywhere. -Thanks go out to: GIFTS ben* random newbies Posts: 277 \| Registered: Tuesday, August 13 2002 07:00
almondblight BANNED Member # 3688	written Friday, June 4 2004 20:35 Profile #30 Well...yeah. I'm a bit of a world builder fan (gotta keep something worth playing on my old SE!) so text and (to a lesser extent) graphical adventures aren't new to me. However, most of them seem to have a very specific order to things (go around, collect objects, know which object to use on what, know which verb to use), I was thinking more along the lines of having some adventure elements, but also having roleplaying elements that get you ahead (for example, what choices you make affect what you have to do an how people will treat you). Also, I wonder how well a non-stat combat system would go - think chess where skill matters more than "level", or those fantasy card games where having more cards doesn't mean you will necessarilly be able to beat the other person faster, but it does open more strategies. Another type of game I'd like to see is what Warcraft III was originally going to be - heroes leading small armies on quests, and using the money they get from that to upgrade their army and their own stats. If they made it really open-ended with a lot of side-quests as well as a lot of different paths to choose it could be really cool. Posts: 23 \| Registered: Friday, November 14 2003 08:00
Flake Warrior Member # 1345	written Friday, June 4 2004 23:56 Profile Homepage #31 hahah, goldenaxe, I remember that, classic. Kinda have to remember that the ability of 'earlier' rpg's to actual allow you to roleplay depended vastly on the level of tech at that time. so of course your not going to be able to juggle 7 stats, and 50 feats, while attacking a monster and throwing 4 personalized spells at them. I mean you can go back 'early' arcade games, like Guantlet (although i never actually played it in an arcade) and point and say, thats an rpg, cause you take on the role of a wizard. or warrior. whatever. This links with a discussion i was having with a friend a week ago. I mean, an RPG can be anything really. the basic rpg is where you the player takes on the role of someone who is not you, and then is forced within the confines of the game to play as that character. Then you can seperate those rpgs into action-based rpgs, adventure-based rpgs, statistic-based rpgs, combinations, etc. just an idea. Its kinda like how i hate calling games like counterstrike FPS. They are so obviously Action-based Simulations, or Action-support Simulations (ASS) I mean, and those games like battlefield, vietnam etc, (which in my opinion are wastes of cpu cycles) should be called Historically-realistic Simulations. all you do is run around and shoot people with guns, in a recreation of a war that happened ages ago. It lacks originality. graphic adventures...wahoo! my other other favourite game genre. go KQ! go the remake of KQ by Tierra! back to the original thingy of this/my topic. yeah, something new would be cool. I don't mind turnbased/realtime. don't do a avernum 4. -------------------- If that hamster croaks, we'll actually have to negotiate with the henchmen's union! Posts: 87 \| Registered: Sunday, June 23 2002 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Saturday, June 5 2004 00:27 Profile Homepage #32 quote: Originally written by fallen_avatar: hahah, goldenaxe, I remember that, classic. . Did you hear that? That whooshing noise? That was the sound of sarcasm going right over your head. -------------------- I'd be tender, I'd be gentle And awful sentimental Regarding love and art I'd be friends with the sparrows And the boy who shoots the arrows, If I only had a heart. Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
spyderbytes Shock Trooper Member # 4180	written Saturday, June 5 2004 02:31 Profile #33 quote: Originally written by Syntyrael: I think SW should make a good RPG game that's all magic based. Warrior classes are aways boring for me, and I can never get enough magic... To pick up on the part of this that everyone else has ignored thus far in their fervor for or against FF , I would certainly hope this never happens... I'm exactly the opposite. I wanna run up and start hacking on things. To Hades with this pansy spell casting crap... I wanna slash the living daylights outta the baddies with my vast strength and trusty sword. Nothing starts the day off right like a good blood shower, up close and personal, toe to toe. And I can never get enough stat bonuses/buffs or a deadly enough sword... Which is, of course, exactly why RPGs have both melee and caster/ranged types, to keep both you and me happy. -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 \| Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Flake Warrior Member # 1345	written Saturday, June 5 2004 03:25 Profile Homepage #34 quote: Originally written by Specific Custer: quote: Originally written by fallen_avatar: hahah, goldenaxe, I remember that, classic. . Did you hear that? That whooshing noise? That was the sound of sarcasm going right over your head. ...must i reply? :confused: uh duh? unfortunately, the sarcasm didn't go right over my head, it went in one ear and out the other. oh, on all this FF stuff, I've never played any of the FF games anyways, so i wouldn't be able to comment. -------------------- If that hamster croaks, we'll actually have to negotiate with the henchmen's union! Posts: 87 \| Registered: Sunday, June 23 2002 07:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Saturday, June 5 2004 09:09 Profile Homepage #35 Graphical adventure is not the same as a text-based adventure with graphics. World Builder falls under the latter category. Point and click games where you don't type commands at all are the former. Sierra made many (King's Quest, etc.), most of which involved many unexpected and unavoidable deaths. LucasArts made similar games (Secret of Monkey Island, Loom, etc.), only with no inexplicable deaths at all. ?Alorael, whose personal opinion is that no RPGer should die without having played the original Zork. It takes dying to a grue to make life complete. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Necris Omega Warrior Member # 2155	written Saturday, June 5 2004 12:48 Profile #36 Avernum 4... that would be a double edged sword of risk. Sure, on one hand we know this: Avernum works. It works well. But we also know another thing: so did StarWars. No one wants to see what happened to Lucas' brainchild happen to the Avernum series. By the time he puts it out it could end up undoing a lot of BoA scenarios chronologically. Further, anything new he put in it would be demanded to be implemented in the BoA engine as well. Sure, I'll admit, I want to see a continuation of the Avernum saga, but I'm just leery of the consequences a forth Avernum would pose. The plot might be contrived as it?s hard to come up with another reason to go on about the Avernites. They've already "come full circle" already, they?re back on the surface, what more could they want or need? Sure, avernite/empire frustrations would definitely be in there, but is that really as dynamic as their quest for the surface, or outright war against each other? Then again, Jeff always was a sharp writer- if he really wanted to I?m sure he could come up with something that would both work and flow with the original series smoothly. ---Your analytical maniac, Necris Omega -------------------- Is the triadmage X named X because he's really pornographic? What would anorexia Nervosa look like on a Vahnatai? Posts: 168 \| Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Custer Bob's Big Date Member # 3151	written Saturday, June 5 2004 13:13 Profile Homepage #37 'Sharp writer' isn't something I'd exactly use. In Exile 1, we fought demons. In Exile 2, he pretty much made crap up at random, and I consider that his best series work. In Exile 3, meanwhile, he made the Vahnatai from rich and factional into completely 2D, made the people who tried to massacre Exile in the last game the sympathetic characters only because they were human, and never bothered giving any dissent of opinion to the Exiles. "Yes, those jerks deserve what's coming to them" was something I expected to hear but never did. Mind you, the Imperials are also diverse of opinion. Some are completely intolerant of you in spite of your being there to help, and others are completely tolerant of you in spite of your being known, dangerous criminals, or the descendents thereof. No even mixture -- no one says 'I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, but keep up the good work', as you'd expect. No, respect is a binary -- a stuff-done flag, really, which is either on or off. The Avernums were almost total conversions into a new GUI. I'm sure in Avernum 4 he'd start another war, or maybe make the Sliths evil, or perhaps -- hold onto your seats for this one -- he might have demons on the rampage again. I think with the BoE and BoA scenarios he's made, Jeff has proven that he's pretty much tapped out for good storywork in the Exile universe. -------------------- They want to have a war to keep their factories They want to have a war to keep us on our knees They want to have a war to stop us buying Japanese They want to have a war to stop industrial disease They're pointing out the enemy to keep you deaf and blind They want to suck your energy, incarcerate your mind Give you Rule Brittania, gassy beer, page three Two weeks in Hispania and sunday striptease Meanwhile, the first Jesus says, "I'll cure it soon Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons" The other one's out on hunger strike, he's dying by degrees How come Jesus gets industrial disease? Posts: 2367 \| Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Toenail Returns Agent Member # 3349	written Saturday, June 5 2004 14:27 Profile Homepage #38 I really wouldn't care if it was a Geneforge or a new Exile or Avernum. I LIKE ALL OF THEM! Hoora -------------------- Espresso hasn't been invented yet. That stinks. Xian Skull- Avernum 3 Posts: 1287 \| Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00
Nasarius Warrior Member # 4238	written Saturday, June 5 2004 16:45 Profile #39 quote: Originally written by Andrea: Oh, horping balls. Final Fantasy is not a roleplaying game, it's an interactive movie. In none of them do you establish or develop your own character; differing paths are trivial and mostly useless. Final Fantasy's greatest ill is that it's convinced a bunch of drooling Japanophiles that statistics are the primary constituent of a role-playing game. Oh god, how very strongly I agree with you, both on console-style "RPGs" and the idiotic anime freaks I'll take Darklands or Daggerfall any day over the new glittery crap. quote: Those are called graphical adventures. They're a dying breed now, but they used to be quite popular. Sierra made its name publishing them. Yes, the Quest For Glory series was a fun adventure/RPG hybrid series. Posts: 70 \| Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
Flake Warrior Member # 1345	written Saturday, June 5 2004 19:41 Profile Homepage #40 man i hate games based on graphics...for me the level of graphics superiority of a game (e.g. OMG ITS SO REALISTIC LOOKING!!!, 3D TECTURE MAPPING!!!, full character animations!!! etc) really has little to do with why i like a game. I mean it takes half of the fun away if you can't use your own brain to imagine some of the details. RPGs and games in general (for me) should have a feedback effect, where you not only get to impart your control over a character in the game, but the game has some effect on you and your thinking. I think its called...Interactivity. something a game needs to survive. and the more you have of it the better a game should be. (I think it goes beyond creating character statistics then running around and bashing things. generalizing my ass off as usual). thats why i agree with comments above about 'console-style' rpgs. graphics in games has its place, but it aint a necessary addition for a rpg to be good. that relies on the whole plot/character/interactivity thingy. PDG -------------------- If that hamster croaks, we'll actually have to negotiate with the henchmen's union! Posts: 87 \| Registered: Sunday, June 23 2002 07:00
Dallerdin with a custom moniker. Shock Trooper Member # 3898	written Monday, June 7 2004 04:51 Profile #41 Gameplay is currently a luxury. Graphics SHOULD BE a luxury. I'd say the first thing we can call an RPG and not an adventure was Rogue. Rogue was the first thing which depended more on equipment, statistics, treasure, and fighting enemies than it did on obscure puzzles. Before it was just... non-RPGs. Once stuff like FF and Ultima 8 (Pagan) came into existance, the adventures began to die. Example : Uru, the fourth in the Myst series, which was originally both graphically rich, with an alright storyline and rewarding gameplay, an dso were it's two sequels, now relies more on jumping puzzles and other arcade gameplay than anything else. Good RPGs began the decline from the FFs too, and have also fallen into FF-mania. People call anything that includes hit points, weapons, and at least one statistic an RPG these days. (Oh, and can someone tell me how FF is an RPG when you have no control over the characters? There is no "Role" in it. It's just a... G. Just a game. And not a good one at that.) -------------------- ~Note : The professional newbie's advice should not be taken seriously, or at all.~ Posts: 364 \| Registered: Saturday, January 17 2004 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Monday, June 7 2004 08:22 Profile Homepage #42 Rogue may be fun, but it's not an RPG. The same goes for Angband, Nethack, and all their ilk. There's even less of a role in them than in the Final Fantasies: you have stats, you kill monsters, you become stronger. They're lots of fun, but they're really fantasy hack 'n slash games, not RPGs. In fact Rogue and associated games are the precursors of Diablo. Calling Diablo an RPG should be criminalized, and that game has makes more effort to pretend at a plot than any ASCII dungeon crawl I've ever played. ?Alorael, who doesn't think one can deny that the Final Fantasy games are roleplaying games. You may not have a choice in the role you want to play, but you do play one.Then again, the term "RPG" now seems to have more to do with style of gameplay than plot. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Talent in a Previous Life This Side Towards Enemy Member # 3098	written Monday, June 7 2004 08:27 Profile #43 Role playing is a horrifically vague term though. In Quake, you play a role. You're a person with a gun shooting everything in sight. -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 \| Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Sebald Lifecrafter Member # 3310	written Monday, June 7 2004 19:34 Profile #44 Then what would the characteristic traits for a RPG be? Assuming a role, improving/modifying/leveling up your character and...? Also, has anyone here played Gateway, a textbased scifi adventure with graphics. Truly one of the best games ever made. I have never encountered a more intense atmosphere in a game. You should really try it out. I believe it's freeware, though I don't know where you could find it. Posts: 756 \| Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Milla Infiltrator Member # 65	written Monday, June 7 2004 22:20 Profile Homepage #45 quote: Originally written by Saltweed: Then what would the characteristic traits for a RPG be? Assuming a role, improving/modifying/leveling up your character and...? Also, has anyone here played Gateway, a textbased scifi adventure with graphics. Truly one of the best games ever made. I have never encountered a more intense atmosphere in a game. You should really try it out. I believe it's freeware, though I don't know where you could find it. Would this be it? -------------------- "Heads don't roll, they bounce!" Want to find out how nasty you really are? visit:www.thespark.com now! Also look at my site here This is also a good site Posts: 650 \| Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Sebald Lifecrafter Member # 3310	written Monday, June 7 2004 22:48 Profile #46 Yup, that's it. I didn't know there was a Gateway 2, though. You just made my day. Posts: 756 \| Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Dallerdin with a custom moniker. Shock Trooper Member # 3898	written Tuesday, June 8 2004 04:30 Profile #47 Okay, probably not Rogue. I'll give you that. Or Moria. Or Angband. And I doubt it for Nethack. But some of the more advenced ones hem ADOM hem... Sorry. I love ADOM and take the chance to advertise it every time a subject remotely related to it comes up. And it is role-playing. Your charactar actually has stats that are not related to fighting and killing stuff and items, you actually have an alignment, you actually interact with the world around you in ways unrelated to fighting and item gathering, the world reacts to you based upon the charecter you play. (Of course, it's not exactly as sophistocated as, say, Geneforge's system, but it's at least as good as Avernum 3's, without the complex conversations.) Not that I favor Geneforge over Avernum 3 that is! Not at all! And I apologise for my consistant poor spelling of charactar/character/charectar/charecter/the c word -------------------- ~Note : The professional newbie's advice should not be taken seriously, or at all.~ Posts: 364 \| Registered: Saturday, January 17 2004 08:00
Djur Revolutions Babelicious Member # 3149	written Tuesday, June 8 2004 11:35 Profile Homepage #48 ADOM is a piece of crap and I hope the guy who made it burns in an eternity of hells. Nethack, on the other hand, does have sufficient roleplaying elements to pass for an RPG. Specifically, the whole piety issue and the alignments (Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic). -------------------- Beatoff Valley: A story told out of order. Posts: 999 \| Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Talent in a Previous Life This Side Towards Enemy Member # 3098	written Tuesday, June 8 2004 12:58 Profile #49 quote: Originally written by Dallerdin: And I apologise for my consistant poor spelling of charactar/character/charectar/charecter/the c word Character. If you realise you're spelling it wrong, look it up in a dictionary. Laziness is no excuse. -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 \| Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00

Author	Topic: We know about Geneforge 3...but what's next?
Kyna Infiltrator Member # 2628	written Friday, June 4 2004 17:41 Profile Homepage #25 Isn't the first RPG the text-based classic caves game? I remember playing that before computer games used graphics. -------------------- We meet and part now over all the world; we, the lost company, take hands together in the night, forget the night in our brief happiness, silently. -- Judith Wright My website Posts: 512 \| Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Friday, June 4 2004 17:51 Profile Homepage #26 I have nothing against text adventures, I just thought I might start him off with something slightly less unfamiliar. -------------------- I'd be tender, I'd be gentle And awful sentimental Regarding love and art I'd be friends with the sparrows And the boy who shoots the arrows, If I only had a heart. Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Sound Effect Shock Trooper Member # 1723	written Friday, June 4 2004 20:04 Profile #27 Would that qualify the Legend of Zelda series as a graphical adventure? -------------------- This signature brought to you courtesy of idiots everywhere. -Thanks go out to: GIFTS ben* random newbies Posts: 277 \| Registered: Tuesday, August 13 2002 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Friday, June 4 2004 20:20 Profile Homepage #28 No. Adventures tend not to have much combat, or at least to not be based around it. -------------------- I'd be tender, I'd be gentle And awful sentimental Regarding love and art I'd be friends with the sparrows And the boy who shoots the arrows, If I only had a heart. Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Sound Effect Shock Trooper Member # 1723	written Friday, June 4 2004 20:28 Profile #29 Something Geneforge-esque in the style of Parasite Eve would certainly be welcome here. I always was quite partial to that game; pity the sequel was wretched. -------------------- This signature brought to you courtesy of idiots everywhere. -Thanks go out to: GIFTS ben* random newbies Posts: 277 \| Registered: Tuesday, August 13 2002 07:00
almondblight BANNED Member # 3688	written Friday, June 4 2004 20:35 Profile #30 Well...yeah. I'm a bit of a world builder fan (gotta keep something worth playing on my old SE!) so text and (to a lesser extent) graphical adventures aren't new to me. However, most of them seem to have a very specific order to things (go around, collect objects, know which object to use on what, know which verb to use), I was thinking more along the lines of having some adventure elements, but also having roleplaying elements that get you ahead (for example, what choices you make affect what you have to do an how people will treat you). Also, I wonder how well a non-stat combat system would go - think chess where skill matters more than "level", or those fantasy card games where having more cards doesn't mean you will necessarilly be able to beat the other person faster, but it does open more strategies. Another type of game I'd like to see is what Warcraft III was originally going to be - heroes leading small armies on quests, and using the money they get from that to upgrade their army and their own stats. If they made it really open-ended with a lot of side-quests as well as a lot of different paths to choose it could be really cool. Posts: 23 \| Registered: Friday, November 14 2003 08:00
Flake Warrior Member # 1345	written Friday, June 4 2004 23:56 Profile Homepage #31 hahah, goldenaxe, I remember that, classic. Kinda have to remember that the ability of 'earlier' rpg's to actual allow you to roleplay depended vastly on the level of tech at that time. so of course your not going to be able to juggle 7 stats, and 50 feats, while attacking a monster and throwing 4 personalized spells at them. I mean you can go back 'early' arcade games, like Guantlet (although i never actually played it in an arcade) and point and say, thats an rpg, cause you take on the role of a wizard. or warrior. whatever. This links with a discussion i was having with a friend a week ago. I mean, an RPG can be anything really. the basic rpg is where you the player takes on the role of someone who is not you, and then is forced within the confines of the game to play as that character. Then you can seperate those rpgs into action-based rpgs, adventure-based rpgs, statistic-based rpgs, combinations, etc. just an idea. Its kinda like how i hate calling games like counterstrike FPS. They are so obviously Action-based Simulations, or Action-support Simulations (ASS) I mean, and those games like battlefield, vietnam etc, (which in my opinion are wastes of cpu cycles) should be called Historically-realistic Simulations. all you do is run around and shoot people with guns, in a recreation of a war that happened ages ago. It lacks originality. graphic adventures...wahoo! my other other favourite game genre. go KQ! go the remake of KQ by Tierra! back to the original thingy of this/my topic. yeah, something new would be cool. I don't mind turnbased/realtime. don't do a avernum 4. -------------------- If that hamster croaks, we'll actually have to negotiate with the henchmen's union! Posts: 87 \| Registered: Sunday, June 23 2002 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Saturday, June 5 2004 00:27 Profile Homepage #32 quote: Originally written by fallen_avatar: hahah, goldenaxe, I remember that, classic. . Did you hear that? That whooshing noise? That was the sound of sarcasm going right over your head. -------------------- I'd be tender, I'd be gentle And awful sentimental Regarding love and art I'd be friends with the sparrows And the boy who shoots the arrows, If I only had a heart. Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
spyderbytes Shock Trooper Member # 4180	written Saturday, June 5 2004 02:31 Profile #33 quote: Originally written by Syntyrael: I think SW should make a good RPG game that's all magic based. Warrior classes are aways boring for me, and I can never get enough magic... To pick up on the part of this that everyone else has ignored thus far in their fervor for or against FF , I would certainly hope this never happens... I'm exactly the opposite. I wanna run up and start hacking on things. To Hades with this pansy spell casting crap... I wanna slash the living daylights outta the baddies with my vast strength and trusty sword. Nothing starts the day off right like a good blood shower, up close and personal, toe to toe. And I can never get enough stat bonuses/buffs or a deadly enough sword... Which is, of course, exactly why RPGs have both melee and caster/ranged types, to keep both you and me happy. -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 \| Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Flake Warrior Member # 1345	written Saturday, June 5 2004 03:25 Profile Homepage #34 quote: Originally written by Specific Custer: quote: Originally written by fallen_avatar: hahah, goldenaxe, I remember that, classic. . Did you hear that? That whooshing noise? That was the sound of sarcasm going right over your head. ...must i reply? :confused: uh duh? unfortunately, the sarcasm didn't go right over my head, it went in one ear and out the other. oh, on all this FF stuff, I've never played any of the FF games anyways, so i wouldn't be able to comment. -------------------- If that hamster croaks, we'll actually have to negotiate with the henchmen's union! Posts: 87 \| Registered: Sunday, June 23 2002 07:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Saturday, June 5 2004 09:09 Profile Homepage #35 Graphical adventure is not the same as a text-based adventure with graphics. World Builder falls under the latter category. Point and click games where you don't type commands at all are the former. Sierra made many (King's Quest, etc.), most of which involved many unexpected and unavoidable deaths. LucasArts made similar games (Secret of Monkey Island, Loom, etc.), only with no inexplicable deaths at all. ?Alorael, whose personal opinion is that no RPGer should die without having played the original Zork. It takes dying to a grue to make life complete. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Necris Omega Warrior Member # 2155	written Saturday, June 5 2004 12:48 Profile #36 Avernum 4... that would be a double edged sword of risk. Sure, on one hand we know this: Avernum works. It works well. But we also know another thing: so did StarWars. No one wants to see what happened to Lucas' brainchild happen to the Avernum series. By the time he puts it out it could end up undoing a lot of BoA scenarios chronologically. Further, anything new he put in it would be demanded to be implemented in the BoA engine as well. Sure, I'll admit, I want to see a continuation of the Avernum saga, but I'm just leery of the consequences a forth Avernum would pose. The plot might be contrived as it?s hard to come up with another reason to go on about the Avernites. They've already "come full circle" already, they?re back on the surface, what more could they want or need? Sure, avernite/empire frustrations would definitely be in there, but is that really as dynamic as their quest for the surface, or outright war against each other? Then again, Jeff always was a sharp writer- if he really wanted to I?m sure he could come up with something that would both work and flow with the original series smoothly. ---Your analytical maniac, Necris Omega -------------------- Is the triadmage X named X because he's really pornographic? What would anorexia Nervosa look like on a Vahnatai? Posts: 168 \| Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Custer Bob's Big Date Member # 3151	written Saturday, June 5 2004 13:13 Profile Homepage #37 'Sharp writer' isn't something I'd exactly use. In Exile 1, we fought demons. In Exile 2, he pretty much made crap up at random, and I consider that his best series work. In Exile 3, meanwhile, he made the Vahnatai from rich and factional into completely 2D, made the people who tried to massacre Exile in the last game the sympathetic characters only because they were human, and never bothered giving any dissent of opinion to the Exiles. "Yes, those jerks deserve what's coming to them" was something I expected to hear but never did. Mind you, the Imperials are also diverse of opinion. Some are completely intolerant of you in spite of your being there to help, and others are completely tolerant of you in spite of your being known, dangerous criminals, or the descendents thereof. No even mixture -- no one says 'I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, but keep up the good work', as you'd expect. No, respect is a binary -- a stuff-done flag, really, which is either on or off. The Avernums were almost total conversions into a new GUI. I'm sure in Avernum 4 he'd start another war, or maybe make the Sliths evil, or perhaps -- hold onto your seats for this one -- he might have demons on the rampage again. I think with the BoE and BoA scenarios he's made, Jeff has proven that he's pretty much tapped out for good storywork in the Exile universe. -------------------- They want to have a war to keep their factories They want to have a war to keep us on our knees They want to have a war to stop us buying Japanese They want to have a war to stop industrial disease They're pointing out the enemy to keep you deaf and blind They want to suck your energy, incarcerate your mind Give you Rule Brittania, gassy beer, page three Two weeks in Hispania and sunday striptease Meanwhile, the first Jesus says, "I'll cure it soon Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons" The other one's out on hunger strike, he's dying by degrees How come Jesus gets industrial disease? Posts: 2367 \| Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Toenail Returns Agent Member # 3349	written Saturday, June 5 2004 14:27 Profile Homepage #38 I really wouldn't care if it was a Geneforge or a new Exile or Avernum. I LIKE ALL OF THEM! Hoora -------------------- Espresso hasn't been invented yet. That stinks. Xian Skull- Avernum 3 Posts: 1287 \| Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00
Nasarius Warrior Member # 4238	written Saturday, June 5 2004 16:45 Profile #39 quote: Originally written by Andrea: Oh, horping balls. Final Fantasy is not a roleplaying game, it's an interactive movie. In none of them do you establish or develop your own character; differing paths are trivial and mostly useless. Final Fantasy's greatest ill is that it's convinced a bunch of drooling Japanophiles that statistics are the primary constituent of a role-playing game. Oh god, how very strongly I agree with you, both on console-style "RPGs" and the idiotic anime freaks I'll take Darklands or Daggerfall any day over the new glittery crap. quote: Those are called graphical adventures. They're a dying breed now, but they used to be quite popular. Sierra made its name publishing them. Yes, the Quest For Glory series was a fun adventure/RPG hybrid series. Posts: 70 \| Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
Flake Warrior Member # 1345	written Saturday, June 5 2004 19:41 Profile Homepage #40 man i hate games based on graphics...for me the level of graphics superiority of a game (e.g. OMG ITS SO REALISTIC LOOKING!!!, 3D TECTURE MAPPING!!!, full character animations!!! etc) really has little to do with why i like a game. I mean it takes half of the fun away if you can't use your own brain to imagine some of the details. RPGs and games in general (for me) should have a feedback effect, where you not only get to impart your control over a character in the game, but the game has some effect on you and your thinking. I think its called...Interactivity. something a game needs to survive. and the more you have of it the better a game should be. (I think it goes beyond creating character statistics then running around and bashing things. generalizing my ass off as usual). thats why i agree with comments above about 'console-style' rpgs. graphics in games has its place, but it aint a necessary addition for a rpg to be good. that relies on the whole plot/character/interactivity thingy. PDG -------------------- If that hamster croaks, we'll actually have to negotiate with the henchmen's union! Posts: 87 \| Registered: Sunday, June 23 2002 07:00
Dallerdin with a custom moniker. Shock Trooper Member # 3898	written Monday, June 7 2004 04:51 Profile #41 Gameplay is currently a luxury. Graphics SHOULD BE a luxury. I'd say the first thing we can call an RPG and not an adventure was Rogue. Rogue was the first thing which depended more on equipment, statistics, treasure, and fighting enemies than it did on obscure puzzles. Before it was just... non-RPGs. Once stuff like FF and Ultima 8 (Pagan) came into existance, the adventures began to die. Example : Uru, the fourth in the Myst series, which was originally both graphically rich, with an alright storyline and rewarding gameplay, an dso were it's two sequels, now relies more on jumping puzzles and other arcade gameplay than anything else. Good RPGs began the decline from the FFs too, and have also fallen into FF-mania. People call anything that includes hit points, weapons, and at least one statistic an RPG these days. (Oh, and can someone tell me how FF is an RPG when you have no control over the characters? There is no "Role" in it. It's just a... G. Just a game. And not a good one at that.) -------------------- ~Note : The professional newbie's advice should not be taken seriously, or at all.~ Posts: 364 \| Registered: Saturday, January 17 2004 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Monday, June 7 2004 08:22 Profile Homepage #42 Rogue may be fun, but it's not an RPG. The same goes for Angband, Nethack, and all their ilk. There's even less of a role in them than in the Final Fantasies: you have stats, you kill monsters, you become stronger. They're lots of fun, but they're really fantasy hack 'n slash games, not RPGs. In fact Rogue and associated games are the precursors of Diablo. Calling Diablo an RPG should be criminalized, and that game has makes more effort to pretend at a plot than any ASCII dungeon crawl I've ever played. ?Alorael, who doesn't think one can deny that the Final Fantasy games are roleplaying games. You may not have a choice in the role you want to play, but you do play one.Then again, the term "RPG" now seems to have more to do with style of gameplay than plot. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Talent in a Previous Life This Side Towards Enemy Member # 3098	written Monday, June 7 2004 08:27 Profile #43 Role playing is a horrifically vague term though. In Quake, you play a role. You're a person with a gun shooting everything in sight. -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 \| Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Sebald Lifecrafter Member # 3310	written Monday, June 7 2004 19:34 Profile #44 Then what would the characteristic traits for a RPG be? Assuming a role, improving/modifying/leveling up your character and...? Also, has anyone here played Gateway, a textbased scifi adventure with graphics. Truly one of the best games ever made. I have never encountered a more intense atmosphere in a game. You should really try it out. I believe it's freeware, though I don't know where you could find it. Posts: 756 \| Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Milla Infiltrator Member # 65	written Monday, June 7 2004 22:20 Profile Homepage #45 quote: Originally written by Saltweed: Then what would the characteristic traits for a RPG be? Assuming a role, improving/modifying/leveling up your character and...? Also, has anyone here played Gateway, a textbased scifi adventure with graphics. Truly one of the best games ever made. I have never encountered a more intense atmosphere in a game. You should really try it out. I believe it's freeware, though I don't know where you could find it. Would this be it? -------------------- "Heads don't roll, they bounce!" Want to find out how nasty you really are? visit:www.thespark.com now! Also look at my site here This is also a good site Posts: 650 \| Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Sebald Lifecrafter Member # 3310	written Monday, June 7 2004 22:48 Profile #46 Yup, that's it. I didn't know there was a Gateway 2, though. You just made my day. Posts: 756 \| Registered: Monday, August 4 2003 07:00
Dallerdin with a custom moniker. Shock Trooper Member # 3898	written Tuesday, June 8 2004 04:30 Profile #47 Okay, probably not Rogue. I'll give you that. Or Moria. Or Angband. And I doubt it for Nethack. But some of the more advenced ones hem ADOM hem... Sorry. I love ADOM and take the chance to advertise it every time a subject remotely related to it comes up. And it is role-playing. Your charactar actually has stats that are not related to fighting and killing stuff and items, you actually have an alignment, you actually interact with the world around you in ways unrelated to fighting and item gathering, the world reacts to you based upon the charecter you play. (Of course, it's not exactly as sophistocated as, say, Geneforge's system, but it's at least as good as Avernum 3's, without the complex conversations.) Not that I favor Geneforge over Avernum 3 that is! Not at all! And I apologise for my consistant poor spelling of charactar/character/charectar/charecter/the c word -------------------- ~Note : The professional newbie's advice should not be taken seriously, or at all.~ Posts: 364 \| Registered: Saturday, January 17 2004 08:00
Djur Revolutions Babelicious Member # 3149	written Tuesday, June 8 2004 11:35 Profile Homepage #48 ADOM is a piece of crap and I hope the guy who made it burns in an eternity of hells. Nethack, on the other hand, does have sufficient roleplaying elements to pass for an RPG. Specifically, the whole piety issue and the alignments (Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic). -------------------- Beatoff Valley: A story told out of order. Posts: 999 \| Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Talent in a Previous Life This Side Towards Enemy Member # 3098	written Tuesday, June 8 2004 12:58 Profile #49 quote: Originally written by Dallerdin: And I apologise for my consistant poor spelling of charactar/character/charectar/charecter/the c word Character. If you realise you're spelling it wrong, look it up in a dictionary. Laziness is no excuse. -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 \| Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00