Undead Topics Need Loving Too (aka "Give Me Your First-Born")

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AuthorTopic: Undead Topics Need Loving Too (aka "Give Me Your First-Born")
Law Bringer
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It's Japanese, and I think it is Kanji from looking at it, although I can't read it. I don't know if TM knows Chinese...

This is a useful link:

http://members.aol.com/writejapan/

According to that site, Kanji was introduced to Japan from China, which would explain the similarity.

These are Chinese characters, apparently:

IMAGE(http://www.zhongwen.com/t/3.gif)

These are Kanji characters, spelling Tokyo:

IMAGE(http://members.aol.com/writejapan/tokyo.gif)

The latter look a bit more stylized and less intricate to me - it's not easy to distinguish them at one glance if you can't read them, but they're different.

[ Tuesday, November 08, 2005 04:20: Message edited by: NaNoWriMo ]

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Electric Sheep One
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With Jim Breen's wonderful webpage, you can cut and paste in all these Japanese characters, and discover what TM has been saying. (Well, you have to work a bit to sort out what the translation actually says, but it isn't that hard with the context we know.)

*tips hat to TM*

(*but that's most certainly as far as he goes*)

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
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Is this man's webpage better than Babelfish?

Because, like, any time I use kansai-ben, Babelfish acts like a damnfool. -_-

PS- Well played, Aran, but the most cogent indicator of which tongue I'm speaking in is that I'm using the hiragana. And why the heck would I learn chinese, anyway? Name one good anime to have come from China. ~_~

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Cartographer
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People, you must remember that TM is an otaku. :\

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So many strange ones around. Don't you think?
Posts: 1308 | Registered: Sunday, September 8 2002 07:00
Off With Their Heads
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Thralni: I still can't for the life of me figure out what you meant. You clearly could never read Japanese or Chinese.

In any case, if anyone's wondering, the way to tell the two apart is that Chinese has only the complicated Chinese characters (like 貴 or 仮), but Japanese has the same characters interspersed with much simpler characters (like し or の). The Chinese characters are called kanji, and the simpler characters are hiragana and sometimes katakana. Korean, by the way, looks much like Chinese but contains many more circles.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

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The hiragana are also more curvaceous than the katakana, and are used for grammatical particles, noun honorific prefixes and verb endings. Ex:
べましょう
The first hiragana is an "o", which is the prefix used for japanese nouns. In this case, it's niku (meat). For chinese nouns (ie, "han"), go- is the prefix used (ie, "gohan").
The second hiragana is "wo", which is (essentially) the accusative particle. Particles work on what goes before them, meaning in this instance that something will be done unto the meat (and not the verb).
The third set of hiragana are "bemashou", which is the -mashou conjugation of "taberu" (to eat). The -mashou conjugation is polite and suggestive, saying "Let's eat".
So the sentence says "Let's eat meat".

The katakana are much more linear and angular, and are used for directly borrowing words from other languages. Pretty simple. Examples:
コンピュター (Konpyuuta => Computer)
デパート (Depaato => Department Store)
アニメ (Anime => Animation)

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
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quote:
Originally written by Shingai no Junkyousha:

And why the heck would I learn chinese, anyway? Name one good anime to have come from China. ~_~
I was pretty sure you didn't, but didn't want to risk claiming it without knowing and being proven a damnfool.

Although my confusing kanji with hiragana probably does that job quite nicely already... :rolleyes:

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"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
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You wouldn't look like a damfool since you didn't claim to have known the language. Misinformed, perhaps, but everyone is on a great deal of things.

Anyway, you bring up an interesting point- the kanji are the chinese characters, but the hiragana are actually derived from the kanji. A few examples:

安 => あ
止 => と
弓 => こ
女 => め
川 => つ

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Hiragana_origin.jpg

Do not ask me how some of these are related. Indeed, the kanji are absolutely infuriating.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Master
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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Thralni: I still can't for the life of me figure out what you meant. You clearly could never read Japanese or Chinese.
Of course I couldn't! How clear do I have to make that it was sarcasme!? If I would have said it right in your face, would you have understood then? Now I can't give it some tone with my voice, so i tried to make it very obvious with words... Not obvious enough then, is it.

What you just said about the kanji and hiragana, is it the same process as happened with the Sumerian letters (cuneiform writing), that slowly changed into the old hebrew letters, which slowly changed into the modern hebrew letters, which (I think) slowly changed inot the Latin alfabet? Thus we can say that the Latin Alfabet is actually derived from cuneiform writing?

EDIT: And kelandon, thanks for that small explanation of hpw to recognize the language. Others here just screamed at me for not understanding what is what and then not telling me what it is. Finnaly somebody who can really read and mostly understand what i want of him. Aran, thanks to you to, but then i still didn't know how to recognize them and understand exactly what is the difference. Or I'm just stupid.

[ Wednesday, November 09, 2005 00:12: Message edited by: Thralni, emperor of Riverrod ]

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Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
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It doesn't really make sense as sarcasm.

The Latin alphabet derives from the Greek alphabet, albeit indirectly. That is, some Latin character pronunciations are related to Sicilian-dialect Greek pronunciations. The capitals for both languages are nearly the same, and the lower-case miniscules were developed much later (during the Middle Ages). The Greek alphabet derives from the Phoenician alphabet, which in turn is derived (apparently — now I'm on Wikipedia, as Phoenician was as far back as I knew of) from proto-Canaanite, which in turn evidently had something to do with hieroglyphic writing or cuneiform, but that link is not entirely clear.

Anyway, my point is, Hebrew writing and Latin writing both derive from Phoenician writing, but Latin writing does not in any way derive from Hebrew writing.

The process of borrowing from Chinese to Japanese was much more direct, without transmission through intermediary languages.

[ Wednesday, November 09, 2005 20:05: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.

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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Agent
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quote:
Originally written by Spring:

And a new sig, I noticed.

And, TM, that was the perfect response to what spy.there posted. :P

Even though spy.there has never provoked that kind of reaction.

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Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Master
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Wow, it's a rare opportuntity to be able to post the 800th reply in a topic.

That said, what do I need to install to see all these Japanese characters past little squares?

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-ben4808

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Electric Sheep One
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You need to install deep familiarity with thousands of years of Japanese cultural background. Then you will begin to appreciate how the meanings of the identical squares differ according to context.

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
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Go on "View"->"Character Encoding" and fiddle around with those settings. Unicode should do it, or otherwise an automatic recognition, although that isn't failsafe.

This should work both in Firefox and IE.

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The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

You need to install deep familiarity with thousands of years of Japanese cultural background. Then you will begin to appreciate how the meanings of the identical squares differ according to context.
Square squar squre suare squer.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Master
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Eh, I'm on MSN Explorer though. No view menu.

I suppose even though it would be interesting to see them, no one can understand the characters anyway.

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-ben4808

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quote:
Originally written by ben ben:

Eh, I'm on MSN Explorer though. No view menu.

Eh, dear god why? :confused:

=/

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? Man, ? Amazing
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quote:
Originally written by kuc:

quote:
Originally written by ben ben:

Eh, I'm on MSN Explorer though. No view menu.

Eh, dear god why? :confused:

It must be safer for his Mom. The square blocks are all part of the censoring, and we all know that those crazy squiggly characters are used by devil worshippers.

*this message sponsored by ludacris*
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
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Because Mommy thinks MSN Explorer is the only holy browser, according to the Jesus book.

[ Thursday, November 10, 2005 19:32: Message edited by: Wise Man ]

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Although AOL is a feasible substitute.

Well, so long as you have a sacrificial ram on hand.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Master
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quote:
Originally written by Wise Man:

Because Mommy thinks MSN Explorer is the only holy browser, according to the Jesus book.
Hey, hey, hey. None o' that.

It's because all of our favorite are on here, but it's a different list than IE's. So we don't want to go to the trouble. And because it looks better and we've been using it forever.

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-ben4808

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quote:
Originally written by ben ben:

So we don't want to go to the trouble. And because it looks better and we've been using it forever.
Wait. Are you talking about your browser or your bible?

*this message sponsored by these guys*
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MSIE looks better?

Good lord.

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MSNE, not MSIE.

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What's the difference?

(Mind you, I don't think that IE Mac is a bad browser- which is outright perverse, considering how horrible IE versions for Windows were at the time. It wasn't perfect, but its only huge problem was with proxies.)

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