United States Conflict Avatars (Cont.)
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 10:09
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Djur has a list of names he needs avatars for. He can go through that list in this topic. EDIT: Screw it. If Djur is too lazy to do it, then I will. Exile_Master is Japan, who the US nuked twice in highly populated cities (including a US POW camp that was nearby) after they wiped out their industrial capacities with a carpet of incindiary and high explosive bombs, in response to an attack on Hawaii that the Gov't actively allowed and had full knowledge of.  Lieutennant Sullust is the Phillipines, who we snuck attack on a war that we entered for purely economic and imperialist reasons (read more on the section regarding Spain). We made them into a colony, and retain control of them to this date.  ahninjas is appropriately China, who we basically dissected evenly with other powers in the Open Door Policy in an attempt to keep it from getting rich while spoling ourselves. We not only crushed the Boxer Revolution, but in the subsequent revolution, we supported a blatant fascist over another blatant fascist on account of our enjoying pro-US dictatorships overseas. After the aforementioned revolution, we refused to acknowledge the People's Republic until the early 70's.  HawkGirl is Iraq. As if I really need to say anything more, you all know the story.  Terror's Martyr is Spain, who we declared war on to give a boost to the economy, after many incidents loosely (read: not at all) tied to the Spanish gov't, including a terrorist bombing that was never confirmed (it was just "assumed") and anti-American letters written by a third party, re-concentration camps (which was nothing more than a relocation program in Cuba designed to move people to urban areas) along with copious ammounts of propaganda (aka "Yellow Papers").  Iolanda is Kosovo, who was bombed vigorously and "liberally" as President William Jefferson saw fit.  (Note that Kosovo is not recognized as its own nation. It's in the south, east of Montenegro.) Arancaytar is Great Britain, who we waged war on in 1812 on account of Britain's provoking native Americans in the NW, non-recognition of neutrality, and impressment. Our only solid victory in the war was after the peace treaty had been signed.  Vengeful Wise Man is Columbia, who we approached with an offer to buy land for the Panama Canal. Columbia gave a price that suited their national interests and what they needed, but we deemed it as too much money, and took the land by forcing a Panamanian revolution.  [ Sunday, July 06, 2003 14:01: Message edited by: Doctor Wu ] -------------------- We're all amazed but not amused By all the things that you said you'd do. You're much concerned but not involved by Decisions that are made by you But we are sick and tired of hearing your song, Telling us how you are going to change right from wrong, 'Cause if you really want to hear our views, You haven't done nothin'. Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 15:39
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Uh, Aranfoolcaytar (HAHAHHA THAT WAS SO FUNNY, AND JUST LIKE YOURS!!!1!!), Washington DC is not a country. I am unbelievably sick of you people, and yet pride, an excessive amount of which is a sin (no wonder), is keeping me here. Don't ask me to explain it, because I won't, since it would most like set of a rant, which would result in a whole lot of flaming from Desp and others, and then a locked topic along with warnings (something else I'm unbelievably sick of) to the flamers, and a nice little "Sir David please don't provoke them" from Alorael. All I will say is, thank you Motrax, and don't bother responding, I'm ignoring the rest of this topic. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL Les forum de la chance. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 16:06
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Edit: Flames extinguished as much as possible. Sorry, this post was written at an unhealthy hour in an even more unhealthy mood. :( I'd edit the 'more-trash' one too, but it was closed by now. So there. If you are so sensitive about seeing an 'Anti-American' joke on the web, can you understand at all what it is like to be from a country with a history like Germany, and learning this history? To have to put up with your country being the first cause for almost a century of war, and with the fact that there are more anti-German jokes than on any country in Europe? Please consider this when you protest against seeing critique about your country for causing wars flimsily justified, which were really mostly to fulfill it's own agenda. [ Monday, July 07, 2003 14:09: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- "And all should cry, Beware, Beware! His Flashing eyes, his Floating hair!" S. T. Coleridge --- "It is as if everyone had lost their sense Consigned themselves to downfall and decadence And a wisp it is they have chosen as their beacon." Reinhard Mey. --- Quote of the Week: "I have a high opinion of myself, which makes up for my total lack of intelligence." Anon. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 16:22
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quote:Consider something else as well. For Motrax to post as he did was most unusual and shows that he was serious when he said that he feels desperate. We all have emotional limits. Instead of judging and condemning him for his, someone might have reacted to that. Continuing the topic after he most probably got himself banned shows a lack of taste, to put it mildly. I am a German and aware of the facts, Arancaytar. [ Sunday, July 06, 2003 16:24: Message edited by: ef ] -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 16:35
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What he did was wrong, ef. He was not banned so this topic would die; he was banned because he behaved like a terrorist in trying to get it closed. It would be distasteful in the extreme to kill the topic entirely just because he attacked it in such a way. He took offense to it, but he admitted he had no logical basis to do so, so he attacked it using spam and illogic. He wasn't posting to be 'most unusual', he was posting because he decided that he found a factual topic against his political skew. His methods were unjustified and uncivilized. So get off the high horse. Motrax didn't martyr himself to save us from an offensive topic, he behaved like a terrorist to shut down a discussion whose facts he felt were against his political viewpoint. There is a difference, and it is a grave one. We did not judge and punish him for having limits; we wouldn't have judged and punished him for objecting to the topic using any kind of logic or civility. We judged and punished him, ef, for acting in an intensely offensive fashion when those limits were crossed. If he is unwilling to participate in civilized discussion and will make every possible attempt to destroy it if he feels offensive, he has no reason to be on a board where people are free to have offensive opinions. Thank you. [ Sunday, July 06, 2003 16:41: Message edited by: General Custer ] -------------------- In a word, gay. --Bob the Impaler Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 16:45
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Every country that I know has its downsides. Being a patriot doesn't mean that you deny everything your country has done, it's having faith in what your country will do. -------------------- We're all amazed but not amused By all the things that you said you'd do. You're much concerned but not involved by Decisions that are made by you But we are sick and tired of hearing your song, Telling us how you are going to change right from wrong, 'Cause if you really want to hear our views, You haven't done nothin'. Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2476
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 16:47
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He behaved like a terrorist, because he felt hurt. Outrageous maybe and not justified, just very emotional. My own views on politics differ from his, but that does not mean that I have to judge his emotion. -------------------- Polaris Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1558
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 16:57
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I thought he was wrong, it was such a strange way to convey his feelings, but did he deserve banning? What pictures did he have before they were removed? Did he say anything excplicitly offensive? I saw wierd multi-posting. -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain, ohhh, I'm tired of the strain and the pain. Lair of Blades Wise Forums Desperance Polaris Bash Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1169
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 17:25
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Dave, if your ego blows up any further, you'll explode, and I say good riddance, because you're a self-righteous little toad. TM, thank you for continuing the topic despite Motrax's rampant idiocy. -------------------- "Man hands down misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, and don't have any kids yourself."--Philip Larkin, "This Be the Verse" Fear the wrath of the Grammar Wench, lest ye be cut down by the Glistening Scythe. Posts: 1150 | Registered: Friday, May 17 2002 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 17:41
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He has emotional problems? Fine. He can solve them on his own time. Or if he really is that hurt and he can't deal with it anymore, then he should leave. I can be at least somewhat understanding when people are emotionally distraught (which is odd, considering that I have no emotions of my own), but when people act irrationally and violently (well, in context- this is the equivalence of online violence), I lose all patience. ef is Italy, who we blew up in a war that we should have never entered and that we started by our actions 30 years ago.  -------------------- We're all amazed but not amused By all the things that you said you'd do. You're much concerned but not involved by Decisions that are made by you But we are sick and tired of hearing your song, Telling us how you are going to change right from wrong, 'Cause if you really want to hear our views, You haven't done nothin'. Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2669
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 18:44
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As for Japan, I'd just like to add that it was the US's very own Admiral Perry who forced them to open up to the world with gunboat diplomacy. Who knows what would have happened had they been left alone. As for the whole Motrax debacle: I find it damn ironic that people get so worked up about political discussions in a place where most of the members aren't even of voting age. Sure, what he did wasn't right, but, Alec, come on, comparing it to terrorism sounds like something G.W. Bush himself would say. The poor guy did it because he cared, not because he didn't. Djur actually had a nice quote in another thread about the level of investment everybody had in this board, and how we should all just take it down a few notches. I concur wholeheartedly. -------------------- ... Posts: 647 | Registered: Wednesday, February 19 2003 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Sunday, July 6 2003 19:07
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Alec isn't even in this thread. He left these boards a while ago, and the only person to call Motrax a terrorist was ef. -------------------- We're all amazed but not amused By all the things that you said you'd do. You're much concerned but not involved by Decisions that are made by you But we are sick and tired of hearing your song, Telling us how you are going to change right from wrong, 'Cause if you really want to hear our views, You haven't done nothin'. Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Monday, July 7 2003 00:56
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It was Custer who called him a terrorist. ef was trying to justify his terrorist-like behaviour, I think. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
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written Monday, July 7 2003 08:13
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Ugh. Like I said on RoR's topic, if I read the posts here I would end up posting myself. I thought I was clicking the old avatar topic, ended up here, and... I'm sure you understand. OK, as for the whole avatar thing, do you consider it fun to take our problems in history and modern times, blow them out of all proportion, attach random names to them, and post a nice little map alongside? If so, you must be ecstatic, not to mention insane. If not, then WTH is this whole thing about? As for your discussion of offensive views, why is it that whenever I post my views that offend you, the fundamental liberals, I am either compared to a fundamental die-hard Jew-hating gay-smacking etc.-ing Christian conservative, which I am not (well, I am a Christian conservative, but not the rest), or Hitler? And whenever you post something like this, you are a bunch of freedom-loving dying martyrs, not to mention perfectly right and justified in everything you say? EF, I commend you. Motrax is, of course, not a terrorist, or anything resembling a terrorist, but I am glad you defended him. We need more moderates on such a radical board. Omelette, you are correct. RoR, you are, once again, a fool. Rentboy, thank you. That's something else I didn't expect, like ef's posts; your support of views that I share is pleasantly surprising. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon TEH CONSPIRACY IZ ALL Les forum de la chance. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Monday, July 7 2003 08:35
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quote:Then don't read this topic. The title makes it extremely clear what it's about. quote:If you don't know your history, you're bound to repeat it. We American's can't hide our sins behind our flag, or we're going to do them again someday. If you find my posting this nation's history to be offensive, then you're a fool. Most Germans won't be offended at the mention of Hitler, Wilheilm, or Bismark (although admittedly, they didn't do much else that I know, based on the state of the HRE before WWI). Most Russians won't be offended at the mention of Stalin, Kruschev, or any of the despots that followed. Most French won't be offended at the mention of Napoleon or Louis XIV (or was the Bastille crashed under a different monarch?). I'm posting history. You're getting bent out of shape. I don't see the problem. quote:Most people won't beat on you for sharing your views. I know that I will give you a hard time, however, if you don't address my points or refuse to read all of my post (as you sometimes do). And of course, your last premise is 100% wrong. I'm well aware that I'm a flaming jackass (as is the administration), and have posted no such thing about myself in any one post. Nor have any other leftists that I know of. quote:So defending someone who seeks to oppress the opinions of others using the excuse that his pretty little emotions told him to is commendable and draws one away from extremism? No, I won't even leave that as a question. The answer is an outright no. If the boards piss you off that much, then leave or settle the hell down. quote:I can acknowledge that you're not doing this out of your own personal ego (although the extrapolation between "egoism" and "nationalism" is one easilly made). I could also see how she could come to such a conclusion, and would instead kindly remind her not to assume- It makes an ass out of u and me. quote:Apparently, Rentboy is ready to have sympathy for him. I'm not. He's a "poor guy" when he's feeling down. He's not a "poor guy" when he tries to stifle others by flooding the boards with crap. Welcome to Spiderweb. Leave your emotions at the door. -------------------- We're all amazed but not amused By all the things that you said you'd do. You're much concerned but not involved by Decisions that are made by you But we are sick and tired of hearing your song, Telling us how you are going to change right from wrong, 'Cause if you really want to hear our views, You haven't done nothin'. Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
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written Monday, July 7 2003 10:21
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Nobody in their right mind thinks that every part of America's foreign policy has been wrong. The interventions in the Balkans had merit, whatever you think of the operation or the actions of the big four at Versailles. But is it false to say that every casus belli for the Spanish-American War of 1898 has been proved false? It is. So what's wrong with stating it? If you read up on the history, you'll find a second side to many of these stories. Italy was liberated from Germany to a large degree, and the only major injustice the US committed was trying to fix the elections to get an anti-communist afterwards, for example. If you want to post a catalogue of good reasons for the various military adventures, you are of course welcome to. If you can prove that the most heinous act the US ever committed was shortchanging the danes $0.50 when purchasing the Danish West Indies, I'd like to see it. -------------------- Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned I'll tell you my story, man Though I wish I'd never been born I'm loose at the seams, I've broken my dreams And my hand it shakes the pen Come on, come on now baby, Let the good times roll again Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 55
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written Monday, July 7 2003 12:26
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quote:I agree with that...there are times when foreign intervention is a good idea. Good times and bad times for everything...rigging elections because you want to avoid a lefty getting in is a 'bad' intervention. Even a few of the interventions listed here seemed to be justified in their descriptions (read: Great Britain). I figure a country has a right to be upset when a different country is seizing your merchant ships and taking crews from your naval vessels to be forcibly conscripted into the Royal Navy (impressment). And I'm a Canadian saying this. No rule is just black-and-white. I just wanted to get that off my chest, to all you people on either side who're accusing back and forth. Posts: 236 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2940
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written Monday, July 7 2003 13:56
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Much better. The last two posts were good examples of how to reply and debate with another persons statements without insulting them or doing the characteristic.... La!! Lalalala!! Laaaaaaaaaa!! Lalalaa!! ....SirMoE style. It's not that hard realy. [ Monday, July 07, 2003 18:18: Message edited by: The_Nazgul ] -------------------- "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve it through not dying." Posts: 469 | Registered: Thursday, May 1 2003 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Monday, July 7 2003 18:14
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The War of 1812 is indeed partially justified. The title says "United States Conflict Avatars (Cont.)", not "America is the Great Satan Avatars (Cont.)". (Which is another reason why I don't understand Davy's getting all upset over it.) -------------------- We're all amazed but not amused By all the things that you said you'd do. You're much concerned but not involved by Decisions that are made by you But we are sick and tired of hearing your song, Telling us how you are going to change right from wrong, 'Cause if you really want to hear our views, You haven't done nothin'. Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2000
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written Monday, July 7 2003 21:35
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I would like to note that your claim, TM, to have no emotions is a sack of crap, and that while I am no better, I have been a witness of several occasions where you whined like a little ***** about trivial matters, threatening to kill yourself until you got what you wanted. The most amusing of those situations was when I told you to go do it and you stalked off and sulked. Also: I claim Antarctica. See if you can find something for that. -------------------- Since Imban Likes to Edit my Posts ... ... And Drakey likes to edit your signature. Stop it, Ed. Posts: 141 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Monday, July 7 2003 22:30
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Contrariwise, it is quite possible to be able to get worked up easily but almost never become unhappy. And Dave did have a point: not a very good one, to be sure, but it's certainly true that while you lot are on about freedom of speech, every time Dave tries to voice his opinion, you tell him not to. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2000
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written Monday, July 7 2003 22:36
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Yes, well, believing the world is flat is not true, but it can be in the opinion of someone that it is. So your personal opinion could be wrong as there is hard cold facts against it. As is the case of everything that spews forth from that living fecal bag. Everyone has freedom of speech, to believe what they will, but that doesn't make it true, and sometimes it's just so untrue, it's a good thing someone tells them to shut the hell up. -------------------- Since Imban Likes to Edit my Posts ... ... And Drakey likes to edit your signature. Stop it, Ed. Posts: 141 | Registered: Wednesday, October 2 2002 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 521
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written Monday, July 7 2003 23:17
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[Delurk/] David is mad because he is the only person on the board who is rightist, and I was the only central right. Heck that ain't even true. I am true indepedant, and the boards are pretty far left, so far that I was made into unflattering poses, while David is vilified. David knows he isn't really any where near far-right. He is in comparison, but many of you sicken me by believing because he honesty came to differant poltical conclusions that he is a horrible person. He is not. He came up with logical conclusion from his viewpoint that he believes to be in the best interest. I am not evil because I am center right. I mearly disagree with Djur on intentional minimization. Its a fundimental worldview issue that is why we have many problems agreeing with. David sees the world differantly than you do. His interpretation is as malice filled as anyone of yours. None of you want to destroy us all (except for Djur, and that's only kinda ;) ) so remember they are not evil, only working under a differant set of interpretations. As for the historical interpretation on Japan, TM shame on you. I spent several nights lecturing you on the history of Japan and China in the twentieth century. Lets do it from Perry to MacArthur once more. Perry broke down the doors to China, but independently, Russian and British expediations set out a year or two later to do the same. The British end up backing the Ishin (who win support on pledging to throw out the outsiders). The Shogun's shadow governement falls to the Ishin and restore the Emperor to Authority. British traders dominate Japan for the next fifty years. The Ishin's three leaders are dead with in ten years, and with them their plans to create a parilmentary government. The Army gains power as the Samurai are disarmed. The Emperor gains in power and is able to have control in the goverment once again. Over the Meji Era Japan takes many possessions, including Taiwan, and later Korea. The sucess of conquest leads to the ill fated Taisho era, where parimentary inroads are made. This is aborted in the Showa Era, when a coup puts the Army in charge. They target China, and over the next few years, take the eastern portion. This is the true start of World War 2 in the Pacfic. There is a continuous struggle over the next decade as Japanese and Chinese fight. Nearly 50 million Chinese die in Japanese-Chinese conflict. That is as many as in the entire European theater (counting the Holocaust and Eastern Fronts). Nearly 500,000 die in days in Nanking, when the city is raped by Japanese troops. A half million women are forced into prostitution for the Japanese Army, and another War Crime occurs. Several units of researchers and technicians set up bio and chemical war experiements. 10,000 POWs were killed by one unit. On dispersion tests, several million may have died due to the spreading of bio weapons. Mengle was nothing compared to these people. They got of scot-free via project paper clip too. It is the worst act my government ever did, stopping the war crime trials in the East. Only 17 of 400 senior officers charged were brought to trial. In exchange for data, we let the Japanese off. The war in the Pacific involved the US only when we started to deny them materials they were using to kill millions of Chinese. We stopped shipments used for agression and had our protectorates and personal attacked all over the Pacfic. We had our troops who defended the Philippines marched to death, about 21,000 allied troops. We used the Atomic bomb to shorten the war. The Emperor told the Army to surrendor only after the bomb was dropped. For the first time the Emperor spoke to the people, telling them to surrender. Despite his will, there was a last minute coup attempt that almost succeded. The war ended only after Emperor realized the power of Atomic weapons. His defence minster commited seppeku rather than surrender. If the bomb was not dropped, he would of most likely led a coup. The fragile grip on reality that the Japanese Governement had was only wrenched back when they had the bomb dropped. The bombs themselves caused harm on a large scale, but not on that of Dresden. (A good account of this is Slaughterhouse 5, which contains the writers own memories of the bombing he survived through as a POW.) That's it. I might not do this again. [/Delurk] -------------------- I am not really here. Posts: 956 | Registered: Wednesday, January 16 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1886
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written Tuesday, July 8 2003 01:28
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I would have to say that between this post and it's predecessor, I have never before seen such a display of verbal abuse. For those who tried to damp it down, I commend you. I do appreciate the history lessons, although I would feel a bit better about it if the discussion weren't completely one-sided. I would like to at least see a mention of any humanitarian (Serbia/Montenagro/Bosnia-Herzogovenia (sp???)) efforts that had gone along with the troops. Feel free to ignore any concerning Iraq though, as we went in because someone wanted a war to boost his popularity rating, not for humanitarian reasons. While I do feel ashamed of what our country has done, I also feel that we also need to know what our government has done. The single most powerful statement that can be said of America is that, from it's inception, the Constitution incorporated a method for peaceful transfer of power, and a way for unjust laws to be changed. Unfortunately, this doesn't mean anything to those who Corporate America has decided to Do Something About, as they are most likely dead at the hands of the American military. [ Tuesday, July 08, 2003 01:33: Message edited by: Ragnarok Hellcaller ] -------------------- "The hippogryph is an amazing creature rarely seen outside of the wild. The tricky thing about hippogryphs is their incredible jaw strength. One terrible clamp of their beaks could rip a huge beast apart in seconds. Let's see what happens when I stick my hand inside..." *roaring, SNAP! *rider screams —Hippogryph rider, WC III Some cool WoT art here Nono! Bad Surfer!! This is it, The Document That no Evil Overlord can do Without Posts: 505 | Registered: Saturday, September 14 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2669
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written Tuesday, July 8 2003 07:40
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As for Japan, let's not forget about the Russo-Japanese War of 1904/5, which was truly the first modern conflict. It was the first instance of trench warfare and overwhelming use of artillery. Kinda the blueprint for WW1. As for the atom bomb, it wasn't entirely necessary. It was as much a show of force against the Soviets as it was intended to break the Japaneses resistance. Japan could have easily been occupied, as their navy was pretty much destroyed and most major cities already levelled. But it would have taken longer and probably cost a few more American casualties. -------------------- ... Posts: 647 | Registered: Wednesday, February 19 2003 08:00 |