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More Original BoA Graphics in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
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Pretty good. The head looks kinda fish-like to me, though.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
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quote:
I assume it is currently accepted that Hobbes' definition of good/evil is correct. If not let it be so for at least the duration of this post.
I was actually under the impression that we were still in the process of working out generally acceptable definitions for our terms. For me, the problem with Hobbes's definitions is that while they may be adequate for what ethicists like to call natural good and evil, they fail to capture the concept which many people have of moral good and evil. (I don't happen to draw a distinction between the two, but I'm very much in the minority there, and language is a democracy.)

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #70
The thought/action division strikes me as problematic, and not really solving the original problem. Which kinds of good things are now supposed to be the ones that benefit us; good thoughts or good actions?

If the former, do I really regard my thoughts as "good" if holding them somehow benefits me and "evil" if they do not? Altruists would, I imagine, rather strongly object to the idea that from their perspective, their own ethical systems are evil.

If the latter, we're essentially running into the same problems as before. Again, if actions which are "good" to person A are those which benefit A, altruists are acting evilly toward themselves. Maybe this is satisfactory if one is a fan of Ayn Rand, but if we're attempting to characterise good and evil as the words are used in common language, this seems a wholly inadequate state of affairs.

Part of the problem is that we're mixing subjective and objective thinking. As long as we define a person's idea of good or evil in terms of perceived benefit or harm to them, the absolute best we can hope to do is "good for A" or "evil for A". Given how often people disagree, this is not a satisfactory basis for a universal definition of "good" or "evil".

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
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Sorry about the double post, but I'm quoting two separate posts and want to keep them separate.

quote:
This is a hideously inaccurate understanding of Occam's Razor, and it is made no less inaccurate by its being common. Occam's Razor states, simply, that all other things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the truest. It is a rule of thumb, not a law, and it applies to simplicity of explanation, not whether something is mundane or extraordinary.
The confusion probably arises from David Hume's argument against the existence of miracles, which was essentially that any event extraordinary enough to count as a miracle was too extraordinary to be believed at all without an equally extraordinary body of evidence behind it.

[ Friday, January 21, 2005 14:43: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
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quote:
If you mean pure altruism, well Hobbes (and others) thought this was impossible ( see the first excerpt I posted ) as this would mean the being is completely and utterly good. According to Hobbes, an altruistic ethical code is based on some good being transferred to the practicioner. In other words (according to Hobbes) people who do good things expect that it will bring them good sometime in the future.
Oh, I won't deny that it's probably impossible to act purely altruistically, but it's still possible to hold beliefs that regard pure altruism as morally required. Look at Peter Singer - he believes we have a moral obligation to donate almost everything we earn to charity, keeping only enough to keep ourselves alive and perhaps to purchase whatever things are necessary in keeping our jobs (so we can keep donating). (Singer actually does donate about a fifth of his income, which is a lot, but nowhere near what he argues is necessary. A cynic could argue he's doing the minimum necessary to not seem hypocritical.)

[ Friday, January 21, 2005 14:39: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
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quote:
And therefore he that foreseeth the whole way to his preservation (which is the end that every one by nature aimeth at) must also call it good, and the contrary evil. And this is that good and evil, which not every man in passion calleth so, but all men by reason.
Okay, that takes care of the religious types. What about atheists who hold a utilitarian or other altruistic ethical system and firmly believe that certain things are good, despite the fact that they stand to gain nothing personally from them? They clearly don't believe that what's "good" is defined solely by what's best for them.

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Cant Download Exile Games in Tech Support
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #3
Look in your preferences for an option that says something like "send email address as anonymous FTP password". It'll probably be in either "security" or "advanced features". Make sure it's checked.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
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Doesn't seem like a universally acceptable definition. There are plenty of religious types around (and a few non-religious ones as well) who think the things they themselves enjoy are evil.

[ Thursday, January 20, 2005 20:08: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Avernum 3 picture 4900 corrupt? in Tech Support
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He says he already redownloaded. In future, please read the original post before making a fool of yourself.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
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Oh, I'd object to it if it actually happened, sure. There are plenty of things I wouldn't like or approve of if they happened, but just the idea of it doesn't really bother me, especially since it's an unlikely event. I guess you could say I've given up thinking in the abstract.

[ Thursday, January 20, 2005 15:58: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
The power of greed in Blades of Avernum Editor
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I've always sided with the Empire in ASR. The Empire may not be perfect, but the Hill Runners aren't exactly peace-loving hippies either, and historically, rebellions that are against something without being for anything tend to turn out very badly.

I'm atypical, though. Most players do, as you say, seem to automatically side with the rebels. Which suggests a rather interesting potential answer to your original question; make the rebel side by far the more evil of the two, without making it obvious that that's the case until the party has already joined the rebels and well and truly burned their bridges with whoever they're rebelling against.

[ Thursday, January 20, 2005 01:14: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
The power of greed in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #4
I've always sided with the Empire in ASR. The Empire may not be perfect, but the Hill Runners aren't exactly peace-loving hippies either, and historically, rebellions that are against something without being for anything tend to turn out very badly.

I'm atypical, though. Most players do, as you say, seem to automatically side with the rebels. Which suggests a rather interesting potential answer to your original question; make the rebel side by far the more evil of the two, without making it obvious that that's the case until the party has already joined the rebels and well and truly burned their bridges with whoever they're rebelling against.

[ Thursday, January 20, 2005 01:14: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #42
Really? Because I sure can't think of anything that I regard as either entirely good or entirely evil; or even, to use more neutral language, entirely beneficial or harmful. Any event will bring its own advantages and disadvantages to different people.

In fact, there isn't really anything that I have a visceral positive or negative reaction to any more. Maybe that means I've learned to take a more detached view, or maybe I've just stopped caring; maybe those are two ways of saying the same thing.

[ Wednesday, January 19, 2005 22:06: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Sharpshooter in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
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I haven't done any formal testing of it, but I don't think so. Blessing mages is usually a waste of time; the shielding effect isn't great, and your mages should never be in melee anyway. Of course, at level 3 War Blessing hastes and at level 4 it protects from magic, so using it on a mage for those reasons can be useful.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #40
"Evil" is just a word, and language is defined by its usage. If we all agreed there was no such thing as evil, it wouldn't exist. The problem is that that wouldn't really change anything.

On a more serious note, I haven't seen anyone in this topic so far define what they mean by "evil". Perhaps, after all, "evil" is a word that has had its day; perhaps using it only leads to confusion and argument. Perhaps it would be easier to reach a consensus on what is desirable and undesirable rather than what is good and evil. Perhaps it would be preferable to focus on promoting what is desirable and eliminating what is undesirable, rather than debating ethical semantics.

[ Wednesday, January 19, 2005 21:10: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Cant Download Exile Games in Tech Support
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #1
Make sure your browser is configured to allow anonymous FTP login.
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Scenarios in Development in Blades of Avernum
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Profile Homepage #2
I may or may not have something in the planning stages that may or may not be released for BoA at some future time.
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Beta-Call for Bahssikava in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
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Dastal, I can't help but think it's starting to sound a lot like you somehow got a corrupted copy of the scenario. Kel, maybe you should resend, or upload a known good version?
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Beta-Call for Bahssikava in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
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Given that he's using a singleton, he probably means the self-attacking thingie in Tunnels. Its power is proportional to the power of your character. If you use a more reasonable PC it'll be easier.

Oh, and the damage stops once you find and sanctify the altar in the middle of town. Just, um, watch out for the boss.

[ Tuesday, January 18, 2005 14:17: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Sharpshooter in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #6
That's right. I hate having to buy and carry around enough ammunition to last me through a dungeon, and there are some scenarios that don't even sell it, so I can't rely on it anyway.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Beta-Call for Bahssikava in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #69
Last beta report and auxiliary email sent. I'll have limited internet access and no BoA access until Friday, so depending on how soon you send it out and how soon you need a response, I may or may not be up for a third beta round.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Root of all evil in General
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #12
quote:
Be that as it may, religion is impossible to eradicate. The human nature demands that man worship something.
Maybe your definition of "worship" differs from mine, but I'd say it's human nature not to worship anything in particular for very long. As far as I can tell, even most people who claim to be religious don't make religion a major part of their lives -- which is surely what sincere worship would entail.

[ Monday, January 17, 2005 18:50: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Sharpshooter in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #2
Yeah, they do the same thing - add 5% to accuracy and one die to damage.

Obviously, Sharpshooter is also useful if you use thrown missiles. (They're surprisingly useful - I have a priest/sling-user who casts almost as well as my priest and hits almost as hard as my fighter.)

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Open Source in General
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Member # 869
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Darwin, the basic OS under which Aqua (OS X's GUI) runs, is 100% open source. As far as I can tell, the Achelous folks are using the open source code as a base and reverse engineering the rest. It's already established that it's virtually impossible to copyright a look and feel, so that project is legal.

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My BoE Page
Bandwagons are fun!
Roots
Hunted!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Beta-Call for Bahssikava in Blades of Avernum
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #64
I'm not 100% sure what's causing the infinite loop, but try replacing the ">" in line 294 with "!="; it seemed to work for me. Kel, it's a little complicated to explain, but if you take a look at that loop you should be able to work out what I think is wrong and why I think that's a fix.

Oh, and on a lighter note, that sequence was awesome. I like most of the other changes you made, too. I should have a second full beta report ready within 24 hours.

[ Monday, January 17, 2005 03:30: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00

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