Profile for Synergy
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | Synergy |
| Member number | 6292 |
| Title | Shaper |
| Postcount | 2009 |
| Homepage | |
| Registered | Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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| Graphics Request... in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, December 1 2005 17:59
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Could it be, TM, that you've...decided to make another BoA scenario after all? -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Have you ever in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, November 29 2005 22:10
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Hate me for what I am Hate me for what I'm not Hate me with anything and everything you've got -Criss Angel "Hate Me" from World of Illusion 1. (Original CD credited to "AngelDust" but now is sold as "Criss Angel"). Crunchy techno-industrial metal with a poignantly romantic edge...and some not-so-annoyingly catchy riffs. For the truly sanity-dissolving, mind-numbingly "reach for an icepick" earworm syndrome, it takes accidental ingestion of inane bubble-gum pop like "Oops I did it again". P.S. - TM, man, the Japanese novelty gimmick wore off on the second day. How about communicating something worth reading in English again? [ Tuesday, November 29, 2005 22:20: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| what is your group make up? in The Avernum Trilogy | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, November 27 2005 18:27
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Specializing skills is definitely more necessary in A4. It seems like eventually I could wind up with a priest with strength 10 by late in the game for the previous Avernums. It's just not possible here. Level-up points need to be spent very efficiently. You're simply not going to have an effective spell caster who can also carry a lot. So, that makes for glass cannons. I keep maxing out my priest's carrying capacity just carrying his outfit and herbs. Archery is curiously modified—I find it useful for every party member. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Nethergate Demo in Nethergate | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, November 22 2005 21:54
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How do you "beat" a demo? All this talk has caused me to dust off my Nethergate CD and have another whack at it. I played about half the game as the Celts a while back, but never finished it, as I got distracted by BoA. I also played just long enough as the Romans to find that nearly lethal cliff deep in the mines early on in the game. I really like the feel, story, and environment of the game. P.S. - Kingy...umm...TM's BACK, you know. He brought himself back. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • [URL=http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000279#000006] The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, November 22 2005 05:36
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I know that if your party reads a spellbook while a PC is unconscious, the unconscious PC does not learn the spell or gain spell skill level, so I'm pretty sure the game treats the unconscious as not existing—so they also get no XP (they aren't experiencing anything after all). -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, November 21 2005 18:04
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Now that "dead" (unconscious) characters are revived upon entering a town, I often play out fights and dungeons with less than my full party, enjoying the challenge to see how far I can get or if I can escape with at least once PC alive. So, in that sense, it encourages less cheating. When I first came to SW, one aspect of the Avernums I didn't like was dying and resurrection. If resurrection is truly possible, then anyone dead, like Garzhad or Erika or the assassinated Emperor should be able to return at any time. Why should an average band of adventurers have the ability to readily resurrect themselves when the greatest mages and leaders are dead once killed? That and the fact that it simply inspires lots of reloading because it's such a bother to resurrect the dead (especially early on when you might not even be able to afford it). -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, November 21 2005 15:51
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Avernum 4 does run in Mac OS 9 as well as OS X. I've been testing it in 9.2.2 with fine results. Point and click movement is very useful, as there is more ground to traverse with no more outdoors. You'll use it a lot. You can still move with the keypad as usual. The general statement I would make about A4 is that Jeff appears to have gone to lengths to streamline gameplay and to remove or alter almost every previously annoying and awkward factor—not having to resurrect "dead" characters with balms or healers any longer is but one example. What's with IMG saying it's a 2006 release now? -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Memories of Things Long Past at Spiderweb in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, November 17 2005 15:38
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quote:I'd be inclined to classify you with the sweeties, one who gladly has not yet used honeyed words to escape. It's good to balance out all the testosterone with some feminine presence in a place like this. -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Memories of Things Long Past at Spiderweb in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, November 15 2005 22:55
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File under: WHERE DID THEY GO? But let's nevermind those with the creepy predilection for jailbait. Now, Primaryism is the sort of lovely lass with the kind of exotic dark looks which I personally find highly distracting. Chloeeeeeee....commmmme baaaaaaack. We barely knew thee. EDIT: Oh, and Dolphin/Sunset/Meghan...where did she go? Why do the cuties and sweeties keep escaping this place? Someone needs to have words with the fuzzy turtles who are supposed to be guarding the gate. [ Tuesday, November 15, 2005 23:05: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Memories of Things Long Past at Spiderweb in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, November 15 2005 11:58
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Rosycat's like, what, 15? Maybe TM should virtually violate someone his own age. -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Beta Testing Testing One Two Three Four in Avernum 4 | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, November 14 2005 09:54
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I haven't heard back from Jeffy as to whether or not there is anything I can do to finish my game which is stuck with a bug at the very end. Meanwhile, I started a second game with a different party construction, and on "Tricky" difficulty. So far, I'm much more effective than I was the first time. Drake, you've never actually finished a game yet? I'm surprised, considering you were an alpha tester too. Why do you keep starting over? -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, November 13 2005 00:06
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Well, you know, you can't expect good grammar skills from the Anrichrist. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, November 12 2005 23:48
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Kel, what is " a n r i - " in Greek? If I'm not mistaken, it's a prefix that means "annoying". So, literally translated, what we have here is the "annoying anointing". Yes, it is true. God rains on both the just and on the unjust. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, November 12 2005 16:53
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Looks like this thread is winding down. Here’s a little bit on the “antichrist” issue, as a follow-up. I’d be curious to see what others see just reading these four verses themselves, in light of the colossal doomsday doctrines built up out of them and equated with other scriptures which do not use the term “antichrist”, but talk about a symbolic “man of sin” and a “beast” in Revelation. Kel can offer a further look into the use and meanings of “anti” and “christos” in Greek for us if he likes. I used Young’s Literal Translation in an attempt to keep passages truest to original: 1Jo 2:18 Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many—whence we know that it is the last hour John states that this thing called “antichrist” comes, but has already also become many. We can also see that it was back in the first century A.D. the “last hour” (of the age of Law coming to a close). The “end of the world” associated with Matthew 24 and Mark 13 spoke of the end of the age of Law because, as we all know, the world did not come to an end. Those prophecies typically get mixed up with imaginary yet future events, but were fulfilled by 70 A.D. with the horrors and devastations visited upon Jerusalem when the temple and the ritual law all came to a brutal end. 1Jo 2:22 Who is the liar, except he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? this one is the antichrist who is denying the Father and the Son; We see that what defines this antichrist is that it is he who denies the anointing of Jesus in some way. 1Jo 4:3 and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already. Again, antichrist was already in the world in the first century according to John, the only one who ever used this term in scripture. It also involves any spirit (it is helpful often to think of the word “attitude” when we see the word “spirit”), so perhaps we could say: any attitude which does not acknowledge that the anointing has come in the flesh (as it was shown in Jesus). 2Jo 1:7 because many leading astray did enter into the world, who are not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh; this one is he who is leading astray, and the antichrist. "Anti" is a Greek word meaning "opposed to" or "instead of" or both of these meanings. While present Christian doctrine typically focuses only on the “opposed to” function of the word, I think there is great usefulness in seeing it also in its “instead of” meaning as well. We already should know that “christ”, rather than being a name, is from Greek “christos” which means “anointed”. What we can put together is there is a spirit/attitude in the world as of the first century A.D., (and further to unfold) which is seen in many men already, which denies that the anointing of God has been made manifest in the flesh, in Jesus, by the Father. We are told that those who lead others astray in this regard are called antichrist — opposed to the anointing. Furthermore, we can also see that there are spirits/attitudes of men in the world who would be “instead of” christs, “substitute anointings”. These can either be false prophets, fakers, the self-deluded, or those who take something of revelation and spiritual gifting, but turn the acclaim and “anointing” upon themselves, instead of to the Father. Those who take soul power or any other power and pass it off as the anointing of the Holy Spirit are acting as substitute christs. They might not even know they are doing it. They might be sincere, but self-deluded. I would go so far as to say that our very “pastoral” system in so many churches today take the anointed headship of Jesus and substitute the headship and anointing of pastors or popes or priests or whoever, and make them “instead of christs”, who because they usurp the true Head position of the christ, become adversaries to the function of the christ as well. Another aspect is that there are many who have sought to take away from us the anointing that God personally offers us because of what Jesus did and what the Holy Spirit offers us. They have set men over us to be intermediaries between us and God, experts, authorities, fathers, priests, and pastors, and deny that the anointing has come to each of us, in our own flesh as well, so that we may personally commune with God and learn from God and know God. Men seek to take that power for themselves and keep us dependent on them instead. That’s the real critical flesh into which the anointing has come, but is most often denied. Taking meaningful and observable principles like this on the spirit of antichrist in the world and trying to pin it on some mythical solitary anti-God of the future based on a few other spread-around and misunderstood scriptures is quite a stretch, I’d say, looking at what we simply have here about antichrists: it is a spirit, it is already in the world, there are already many of them. Daniel made it clear 600 years before in his vision of the world governments in the form of a statue, that after the fall of the Roman empire, the nations would no longer cleave to each other, as in the toes of mixed iron and clay, which we can see as the remants of the Roman Empire within Europe. After that, the next world government is the Kingdom of the Lord which is a great stone that grinds the former powers to powder and fills up all the earth. So, believers in God should have no fears of a coming one world government headed by an antichrist which is going to laser tattoo us and chop off our heads, or whatever the latest techno-threat is hyped to be. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Beta Testing Testing One Two Three Four in Avernum 4 | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, November 12 2005 16:35
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Hey, anyone finally finished the game yet? I'm stuck in what I believe is the last or second to last confrontation. I'm wondering if others are having the same issue I am—might be a bug, or might be something I missed (not as likely). Email me or IM me ASAP, please: Synergy7167 on AOL. I want to finish this thing. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, November 10 2005 16:12
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Sorry Eph...for what it's worth, I am essentially done with this thread. I have one post on antichrist already written, but in holding, which I have left to contribute. I have nothing more I wish to put out as part of the bigger picture I was trying to put together after making some initial points which needed some context, unless someone wants to talk about satan, angels, and devils/demons, which are also interesting topics—shorter topics, as is the bit on antichrist I will post in the next day or so. That's the thing about ideas about God...many are a big daisy chain which interweaves. You can't readily change one significant idea like eternity, hell, or how many are ultimately saved without addressing numerous other related things. Good arguments (in the good sense of the word) can take some real tenacity and detail, especially where cherished religious beliefs are concerned, because we have so much invested in what we have chosen to believe. I don't know how to write much less than I do. I fear I can't do a thing justice with what I do write, God forbid. I can't imagine anything being remotely compelling just because I say a thing is convincingly so. Deep things require some elaboration. I'm game to revisit even the tiniest little point if there's something anyone would like to talk about. Since I've gotten my framework all in words now mostly, small issues could be discussed without me needing to crank out a new novel. What interests you? -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, November 10 2005 14:10
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Thanks for the clarification Kel, fair 'nuff. Let me put it this way: Everywhere that "aion" was used in the Bible, translating it as "age" makes good sense, whereas in many places, "eternity" makes no sense. When, if it is ambiguous whether or not eternity could have been implied, we have to look for consistency with other Scriptures talking about the nature of and purpose of the "fires" and corrections of God—and His simple principles of “let the punishment fit the crime”, etc. If it doesn't fit that the fire is literally eternal—that eternal punishment fits the crime of a few wanton years upon earth,—even if figuratively it appears to be stated thusly, then we shouldn't have to worry about that being the literal implication. Perhaps scripture is sloppy in its native language. I make no requirement one way or the other. Humanity leaks through, plainly, at the very least. So, as my own new challenge to myself, playing my own devil’s advocate that perhaps we can’t feel we “know” anything for sure about eternity from the New Testament, let’s look at other idiomatic uses of “forever” elsewhere in scripture that even suggest “eternal fires”. Ezekiel 20:47-48: “say to the forest of the Negeb, Hear the word of the LORD: Thus says the Lord GOD, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you and every dry tree; the blazing flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from south to north shall be scorched by it. All flesh shall see that I the LORD have kindled it; it shall not be quenched." Is this fire still burning? It was not quenched as long as it had something to burn and served its purpose ordained by God. Are human souls made of some eternally combustive material so that should they be found in “fire”, that their fire would literally also never be quenched? Isaiah 34: 9-10 And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into brimstone; her land shall become burning pitch. Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up for ever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. Is Edom still burning pitch today and forever more? Is no one able today to walk through the land that once was Edom? Apart from the actual Hebrew words used underneath the “forevers” here, is it possible that God speaks idiomatically in terms of “forever” and “never quenched” and “never dying” when we all know perfectly rationally that these things of course DO have a natural end in time at some point? There is a principle that God’s works do not go unfinished, and it is not put to a stop by any other agency. God does what He wills and carries it out, and there is none to interrupt Him, for there are no other gods to stop Him. Mal 1:4 If Edom says, "We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins," the LORD of hosts says, "They may build, but I will tear down, till they are called the wicked country, the people with whom the LORD is angry for ever." God is angry with Edom “forever”. Yet, let us see what the inspired Psalmist, David had to say about the Lord’s anger and mercy: Psalm 103: 2-9 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits, who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from the Pit, who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy, who satisfies you with good as long as you live so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's. The LORD works vindication and justice for all who are oppressed. He made known his ways to Moses, his acts to the people of Israel. The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. He will not always chide, nor will he keep his anger for ever. Ps 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, thou art there! If I make my bed in Sheol, thou art there! God even redeems your life from the Pit, from the grave, from Sheol, from Hades...from hell. Moreover, God’s love and mercy are steadfast, firmly rooted, integral to Who He is. He is not capricious and arbitrary and prone to the petty resentments, grudges, and cruelly destructive vengeance of men. And David states, “Nor will He keep His anger for ever.” So which is it? Is God forever angry with Edom which burns forever, or is “forever” a long time until it is time for mercy and correction and even possible restoration to occur? Sodom itself is coming back one day to a promised restoration of some sort (and I think this speaks of the souls, rather than the literal city). Eze 16:53 "I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Sama'ria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in the midst of them Yes, God restores Israel 2000 years after committing an “unpardonable” sin, which was not to be forgiven them in “this aion” or in “the aion to come”, yet in 1948, the prophecy of Ezekiel began to be fulfilled when Israel had its fortunes in the form of its nationhood restored. Mt 12:32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Jer 7:20 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, my anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place, upon man and beast, upon the trees of the field and the fruit of the ground; it will burn and not be quenched." This was a prophecy against Jerusalem. Is Jerusalem still burning today? Again: Jer 17: 27 But if you do not listen to me, to keep the sabbath day holy, and not to bear a burden and enter by the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day, then I will kindle a fire in its gates, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem and shall not be quenched.'" Is a fire still burning today at the gates of Jerusalem? Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to hell (gehenna-the place outside Jerusalem where trash was burned), to the unquenchable fire. Gehenna is not burning today. Did Jesus lie? 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell (gehenna), 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. Do worms never die, actually, literally? Do any fires anywhere truly burn forever? This kind of imagery associated with God’s judgements are sobering, but only fearful when you can’t see the idiomatic, the actual point, but rather come to fear a literal which was never intended, nor even sensical. There is plenty else written elsewhere about the nature of God’s judgements, His corrections, His love, His mercies, and His restorations which should be sufficient to convince anyone not already suffused with cold, hard-hearted doctrines to the point of being close-minded to the possibility of a better God than the one we carry over from the belief systems of the DARK AGES, where they gladly tortured and burnt human beings in the name of God. I would have been burned for speaking the sorts of heresies I speak here, back in that day. Would you have been glad for that? What does it say for our own hearts to condemn one another to fires... Ironically, one of the first things God’s fires of judgement have to burn out of us are our errant religious-minded conclusions about Him, because they shape our attitudes towards our brothers and ourselves. We look (and act) like the God we perceive. In order to really start learning anything about God again, after my first 20 years of life and indoctrination, I had to first pretty much unlearn everything I once thought I knew. It was both painful and joyful to go through, and well worth it. But much was burned to the ground and plowed under. Very much. But I asked God to do it, if necessary. It’s hard as hell to have to face the realization that those things and people you once swore trust in have proven fallible—agencies of church and authorities who went before, and so forth. It’s hard to give up the Bible as a magic textbook of rules and blueprint of all truth for all time when you’ve spent many years believing it must be that. It feels more insecure when God is gives more freedom and ambiguity in more things, and leaves much yet unsaid. We have to trust more in our knowing of His nature, wisdom, and good will toward us, rather than our knowledge of many concrete specifics. We have to strive to grow spiritually in Him personally to move forward in our understanding. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, November 10 2005 09:02
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DP, why is it “mine”? I didn't invent these ideas or write the Bible promises. God “all in all” is right out of scripture and many accommodating promises of what the kingdom does and becomes in the world. The answer to your first question, is yes, I think there is something about our discrete soul/spirit which is meant to persist for a very long time, if not always. As for the nature of the future universe (I didn’t say utopia), I have no fixed idea, and I'm not worried about it. I trust in the nature of God and how mind-bogglingly inventive, clever, purposeful, and good He is in what He does and where it all goes. When we trust in the character of someone with authority, we don’t have to worry about the details we really aren’t ready to comprehend yet anyway. Ideas I have which are way off the map: first we learn to perfect our planet here, earth. After that, as “sons” grow up and desire to become fathers themselves, authors, shapers and “creators” in the image of our Father Who is all those things, I think we will expand in what we desire, are able, and given to do. Being given authority in our Father with our spiritual accountability gained from having come through the long travail of our trial of the “good and evil” experience, there is a nearly infinitely vast universe out there to explore, fill, shape, play with, enjoy, witness to, fill with life...I don’t know. How big is your imagination or mine? Well, God is way bigger and more inventive than that, for sure. I think there are unbelievably cool, exciting, potent experiences and deeds for us all to do, fulfilling the unique kinds of gifts and desires God gave us and which are meant to be fulfilled in much better ways than we’d dare imagine. When we are responsible enough to do it in love, truth, and wisdom, I think we will be given a lot of keys to the universe. Man is drawn even now outward to the universe about us. This desire is to be fulfilled. God’s not one to waste things, including the universe or the desires of our hearts. I think we have prejudged and limited many things in our thinking, merely because it has not yet been the time for these things to unfold. We are like children or adolescents looking at adult things which seem entirely out of our grasp. I know He’s got way more up His sleeve than I can begin to guess. I think that "all in all" state is a long way off (ages to come) and we all have much to experience in getting there, individually and collectively as human beings. I see no evidence that God is the sort Who hurries anything. I tend to believe in some kind of likely restoration of all souls past, present, and future on this earth into renewed bodies at some time, as this earth too is transformed to accommodate many more lives. But the main focus of the point is that every knee has finally bowed (figuratively, spiritually) in loving submission to the Lord and every life surrendered to and filled with the life of God and all things made new, including all hearts, when God’s “divine fire” judgements and disciplines to correct nations and individuals have taken their course in all lives. There is promise of our mortal bodies being transformed to reflect the incorruptible life gained in God, so our bodies too will change. So much of what Christianity dreams of seeing “in heaven” is akin to the sorts of things I picture coming forth upon this actual earth, as heaven and earth fuse in a new creation which is both physical and spiritual combined in some marvelous way—like the resurrected body of Jesus showed. I like to think about these things and imagine what could be, but anything I can think up is bound to be way off and fall far short. Simply, the phrase “all in all” means God/Christ have become everything to everyone—and everything has come to reflect that divine filling and harmony. Kel, thanks for your input. I note you didn’t address my issue of obvious numerous non-sensical uses of aion if, as you suggest, those who wrote the NT were so likely to have used it in what you believe was the common idiomatic meaning of aion in the first century—eternity. It is plain that many times it was NOT intended or even possible for it to mean eternity. So are you going to decide now arbitrarily in which cases it was used to mean “age” and which times it means “eternal”? Doesn’t this seem sloppy and non-intuitive when you are writing a religious text for future generations—mixing word use with no way for the reader to know which meaning is intended? How helplessly confusing, just like church doctrines have become today. Kel, you’re just beginning to really learn your things as a young man. I trust you will readily admit there is much more to understand than you have yet mastered. People spend lifetimes studying one language or culture or history. You’ll forgive me if I don’t automatically presume your authority on the subject of the Greek language, though I find your knowledge interesting and helpful. And I will certainly admit that I know precious little much of anything in the big picture. I don’t worship knowledge when it comes down to it, because as it is written, “knowledge puffs up”. I value truth, insight, heart, and passion fused with a good mind. I also know you don’t believe in a Holy Spirit or God’s inspiration or revelation figuring into the scriptural equation at all, and most who believe in God in the Christian sense, believe in this operation of God to some degree—mostly to the extreme degree really, as you know. The book of Revelation is just an acid trip or delirious episode of an old exile on a desert island, without an assumption of revelation from God. But as you said, if there is a Holy Spirit involved in the process, all bets are off. Gods ways are higher than our ways, His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. We have to ascertain spiritually to be granted access to them. Even though I argue a stance that God permits humanity to come through in the persons to whom He gives inspirations and revelations, I also think, especially in the moment of experience, He is effective at clear communication. It is mostly what we do afterwards with revelation which mucks it up. The four gospels likely weren’t written till many years after the events in them occurred. This makes them less “inspired” and reliable to me than Paul’s personal letters based upon his spiritual revelation received during his three years of seeking in Arabia and his ongoing faith and advice developing as an apostle. [ Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:00: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Wednesday, November 9 2005 23:01
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Maybe these are more dumb than dangerous, but I unintentionally burned down a part of a backyard as a kid and an acre of lawn in our front yard as a teen—also unintentionally. Intentionally, I used to enjoy using a can of hairspray as a flame thrower—not a good idea as it is threatened that one out of x number of cans will EXPLODE if you do so. Shooting a can of spray paint with a .22 was a little more safe and sane, though messier. I blew a hole in two fingers with a "problematic" fire cracker once. I enjoyed making powerful bottlebombs out of various altered fireworks and glass bottles. I'd bet people they wouldn't find one piece of the original bottle after it went off and was often right. I used to pound flat Piccolo Pete fireworks so that instead of making that irritating whistling noise, they would blow up with a force exceeding that of an M-80. I never had one blow up from carefully hammering it, but boy does that seem stupid now. [ Wednesday, November 09, 2005 23:04: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Wednesday, November 9 2005 21:46
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Kel, you may have just described one of the most basic reasons why, by the time the Church was instituationalized under the Roman Emperor Constantine in the 4th Century, people read "eternity" where original writers meant "age". This wound up in the Latin Vulgate Bibles which eventually became off-limits to any but the clergy, and the Catholic Church alone dictated doctrine to millions for many centuries thereafter. There is tremendous power in wielding fear over the masses with the threat of a God Who is going to torture them forever if they don’t play by all the rules the Church lays down...and don’t forget to tithe! Whichever way, there are plenty of uses of aion where "eternity" clearly cannot be the correct translation, because it is nonsensical, which shows those writers used aion to mean an age a good deal of the time, at the very least. So, if we cannot determine their intent in the more controversial uses, then I think any reasonable person would have to consider the following: (A) It is at least entirely possible that many or all uses of aion in Bible texts were intended to mean "age". There are many places where "age" is clearly the most sensible translation right off the bat, which the article I referenced makes evident. So, who knew then, and who decides now which use goes where? What use of the word would religious or trained persons like the apostle Paul be likely to use? The Scriptures are hardly a jocular product. If a word existed in Greek to convey wihout doubt the meaning “eternal”, why would the Holy Spirit take a chance of misinterpretation and confusion by using a word like “aion” which could and certainly originally only did mean “age”? The people who should argue this case the strongest, ironically, are the ones who place absolute faith in the perfectness of the inspiration and maintenance of Scriptures. God is not careless with words. Why did He not use the word which most clearly meant “eternal”? (B) We have to assume that there was some gauge for the people of the time to whom Paul's letters of gospel doctrines, etc. were addressed by which they could know the intended use of the word in each case. Paul was much too scholarly and educated a man to be sloppy with his communication. A consistent use of the word makes more sense to me in this context than an unpredictable mixture of uses with no indication which meaning is intended in some cases. (C) Our studies of ancient Greek language and useage in certain cases such as this might be making assumptions or filling in blanks, or reading something backwards into the equation, if perhaps we simply can't be sure now. Is our present evidence complete enough to be sure? Kel, I'm sure you could comment more on that issue. All I know is we tend to come up with great explanations for things which can be entirely in error, where absolute fact is not forthcoming. (D) In the event that we today simply cannot know for certainty any of these aspects and determine how people in the first century A.D. would have understood the use of such words, we, who concern ourselves with the nature of God and the gospel have to put it all together in context of what else we are told about God, His intentions, His nature, and so forth. When we look at the full breadth of God throughout Scripture and especially as unveiled in the gospels, it is plain to me that it is only consistent with His nature of love and omnipotence that He could not to be the sort to either wish to or need to torture billions for "eternities of eternities" or "to the eternity of the eternities", but for the necessary age or ages of time to achieve the desired correction, like a Father disciplines children He loves unto correction. It's common sense. It's what we as humans understand of the nature of love and wisdom. Torturing even your worst enemies for the sake of "punishment" is only possible if you are a sadist who does not know the ways of mercy or forgiveness or grace...or decency. Putting someone to death for his heinous crimes is much more merciful than torturing them for as long as you can possibly keep them alive. It blows me away how Christendom has been able to reconcile that vision of their Father all these long centuries, and find it somehow consistent with “love” and “wisdom” and a “Father”. It blows me away that I was able to wholly believe it for the first 16 years of my life. I always felt fear and dis-ease about God because of this belief, but never thought to question it outright during that time. I too, like so many, assumed there were wise, benevolent people who knew everything perfectly and that our Bibles were correct and perfect, etc. It was there on the page, whether I liked it or not. So, it comes down to common sense in lieu of some kind of historical absolute proof beyond doubt. What is the nature of the kind of love the Bible describes and demonstrates along with all the other statements and promises we are given about God and His purposes? Eternal torture doesn’t fit in, unless you’re the kind of God Who secretly admires the fiendish imaginations of someone like the Marquis de Sade. And really, if common sense isn’t sufficient, and apparently, for a long time it hasn’t been for millions of good, trusting folk, then that communion with the Spirit of God, Holy Spirit, should invite confirmation of such a thing critical to His nature and heart. How many believers actually ask God to reveal the truth of the matter to them, seek, search, wait, and surrender former biases in quest of His truth, not safety in institutional and popular belief or surrender to supposed earthly “authorities” on the matter. When it comes down to it, believers should seek many such things to be answered, confirmed, and expanded upon personally in their spiritual dialog with God. Ash — one thing I recall about "Adam" in Hebrew context is that it means "ruddy", such as the color of blood in the face, talking about our flesh and blood quality presumably. "Man" in Hebrew is "ish" and woman is "isha"—a female man. Here are some interesting NT uses of “Adam”. Lu 3:38 son of Enosh, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God. Adam is called a son of God, just like Jesus was called Son of God. What shall we deduce from that? Ro 5:14 Yet Death reigned as king from Adam to Moses even over those who had not sinned, as Adam did, against Law. And in Adam we have a type of Him whose coming was still future. Adam was a type (a symbol, an example) of the Christ to come in some fashion. 1Co 15:22 For just as through Adam all die, so also through Christ all will be made alive again. I have elaborated greatly on this point already. All died spiritually because of and through Adam. All are made alive again because of and through Christ. 1Co 15:45 In the same way also it is written, <"The first man Adam became a living being";> the last Adam is a life-giving Spirit. Jesus is compared with the first Adam and is called “the last Adam.” This corresponds with the view in the 1 Cor 15:22 passage above. Spiritually speaking there are only two men in all of creation. The first Adam witnessed in literal(?) Adam and in all humankind who came out of Adam, even if Adam was never literally one man—and as far as I am concerned he doesn’t have to be, but could be the symbol for the first human being(s). And we have the last Adam, who is Christ Jesus, the Savior and redeemer of all the humankind who fell through the first Adam. “Joshua” was a variation on the name Jesus and also meant “savior”, incidentally. We were made partakers of the first Adam through no choice of our own (so much for “free will” — and we all are also made partakers of the last Adam, Jesus Christ through no choice of our own, when He blotted out sin from our account “once for all”. This is how He can be called the Savior of the world. The debt is removed from all, but we, accustomed to the lot of the first Adam, have largely remained sin conscious and become the enemy of God and His purposes in our own minds. The door to the cell is opened, but the slaves who have never known freedom largely stay inside, not comprehending either their slavery or their freedom. It is like a snake with its head cut off which continues to writhe for a time. There are only two men, the first and the last Adam. The first is a son of God and the last is a son of God. God is the Alpha and Omega, so He says, the first and the last. It’s all God A-Z. It comes out of Him. It returns into Him, and in the end He is “all in all”, just as all came out from Him. This too is why the doctrine of eternal separation of so much of the first Adam from the last Adam is not consistent with so much other scripture which paints God as very much purposeful, sovereign, and in control of the agencies of “good and evil” which serve His will. The immediate point being that Jesus was in a way identified with Adam in a special way, though He didn’t call Himself that as far as we have recorded. [ Wednesday, November 09, 2005 22:44: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Wednesday, November 9 2005 20:27
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Belisarius—I'm wondering if my G4 1.25 GHz machine here is going to handle Civ IV adequately. What hardware did you run it on to get your unsatisfactory results? -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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written Wednesday, November 9 2005 19:08
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Hmm, rrrr, um, yeah, well...a new exercise in concision and keeping my promise to say something about... E t e r n i t y . Bottom line: Almost nothing in the Bible book actually has anything to say about true forevers, and the eastern mind doesn’t tend to think or speak in those terms. In Greek, as Kel earlier pulled up, there is a word for eternity and eternal, and a word for age and age-lasting. Guess which one is used in every "eternal" case but one in the New Testament? It’s scandalous, really. It’s Aion, an "age", from which we get in English, "eon", which also definitely does not mean forever, though it may be a long period of time. It’s very telling that where it would make no sense at all otherwise, “age” was sometimes correctly translated from aion. Do you smell arbitrary translating? I do. The politics of why aion and its derivations got turned into eternities in translation over time is another topic. Young’s Literal Translation gets it right every time. Why is the proper use of the word “aion” in Bible translation so critical? Because upon it alone rests the terrifying doctrine of eternal torment as opposed to a very different and purposeful “age-abiding correction” (remember that the word translated “torment”, as in “eternal torment” is the Greek term “touchstoning”, which speaks of the process used to test the purity of gold, and is not about torture as the translated word implies.) This is not to say there is not suffering in refinement, especially when we don’t go willingly. One other simple indicator (not listed below) of the ridiculousness of translating “aion” as “eternity” is this common idiom used in the NT which we translate “for ever and ever”. For Eternity and eternity? How can you add to eternity? “Ages and ages” and “ages of ages” make sense. It’s not my work below, but offers some specific info on relevant usage of “aion”. If you want the full article this comes from, go HERE.. If you care at all about whether it is likely God really does inflict or permit eternal torture of anyone, I strongly recommend you read the article. It’s kind of important if you’re going to believe in God at all. You want to know Him rightly, I should think, and what was said originally 2000 years ago before the fear-mongers and the political-religious fusion took hold over the simple gospel of good news to all. "...our King James version renders it, together with the adjective AIONIOS as "age, course, eternal, for ever, evermore, for ever and ever, everlasting, world, beginning of the world, world began, world without end." What a horrible mixture! ... Let us look at how the word AION is used in a number of passages. About 37 times in the New Testament it is rendered "world," twice as "worlds," twice as "ages," and once as "course." Every place where the word "eternal" appears, with but one exception, it is a translation of this word AION or its adjective form AIONIOS. Twice it is rendered "evermore." Ever place where the word "everlasting" appears, but one, it is this same word or its adjective form. With but thirteen exceptions, every place where the word "ever" appears it is the same word or its adjective form. And aside from all this confusion, the word also appears in the plural, and in a number of confusing combinations, such as "the aion of the aion," "the aion of the aions," and "the aions of the aions," etc. Some of the passages where AION is found will give us added information concerning it. In Eph. 2:7 we find, "in the ages (aions) to come." In Col. 1:26 we find, "the mystery which hath been hid from ages (aions). " In Eph. 2:2 we find "ye walked, according to the course aion of this world." In Heb. 1:2 we find, "by whom also He made the worlds (aions)." In Heb. 11:3 we find, "the worlds (aions) were formed by the Word of God." In about fifteen instances, such as Mat. 12:32, 1 Cor. 1:20, etc., we find it rendered "this world (aion). " Twice we find "this present world (aion). " In Gal. 1:4 we find, "deliver us from this present evil world (aion)." In Eph. 6:12 we find, "the rulers of the darkness of this world (aion)." In 11 Cor. 4:4 we find, "the god of this world (aion)." In I Cor. 2:6 we find, "the wisdom of this world (aion)." In Lk. 16:8 we find, "the children of this world (aion)." In Mk. 4:19 we find, "the cares of this world (aion)." How much more understandable it would be if the translators had used the word age instead of world! In Mk. 10:30 we find that there is not only this present aion, which is evil, but also "the world (aion) to come." In Lk. 20:35 we find, "but they that shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world (aion), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage." In Heb. 6:5 we find, "and have tasted...the powers of the world (aion) to come." And in Lk. 1:70, Jn. 9:32, etc., we find that the aion had a beginning: "since the world (aion) began." And now in reviewing the Scriptures we have just quoted we note that this aion is something which has a king; it has princes; it is in darkness; it had a beginning; it has an ending; it is evil; it has wisdom; it has children who marry; it has cares. The aions we find were made by Christ, simply through His spoken Word, and we also find in Col. 1:26 that the mystery of Christ in us, the hope of glory, has been hidden from these aions. Now, if AION means ETERNAL, consider how ridiculous the Word of God would be! The Holy Spirit would be found saying, "the mystery which has been hid from eternities;" "the mystery of Christ which in other eternities was not made known;" "in the eternities to come;" "Ye walked according to the eternity of this world;" "by whom also He made the eternities;" "the rulers of the darkness of this eternity;" "now once in the end of the eternities hath He appeared;" "the harvest is the end of the eternity;" "since eternity began;" "in the eternities to come," etc. etc. Let the scholars whose business it is delve into the many intricacies of expression, and worry over the many grammatical combinations. Suffice it to say here that there have been "aions" in the past, there is this present "aion," and there are "aions" to come. And these all combined make up TIME, encompassing the whole of the progressive plan and program of God for the development of His creation. Any thinking person should clearly see that if you translate the word AION which means an age by the word eternal, which has nothing to do with time, you immediately get the wrong idea. The same thing applies when the word AION is translated by the word world. It is incorrect and brings nothing but confusion. That is why so many Christians have been worrying about "the end of the world" when they should have been understanding God's special dealing here at "the end of the age." There is a great deal of difference between the expression, "He shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever," and the expression, "He shall be tormented day and night unto the ages of the ages." For ever and ever has no end. The ages of the ages do have an end, and their end will see every knee bowing and every tongue confessing that Jesus Christ is the Lord to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:10; Rom. 14:10-11). The first expression forbodes complete hopelessness for billions and makes the faith of God of none effect. The second expression, which is completely correct, not only offers hope but expresses the ultimate fulfillment of the purpose which was purposed in Christ Jesus before the world began or before the ages were framed."" P.S. Thanks Saunders. Nice thoughts. [ Wednesday, November 09, 2005 20:19: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
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written Tuesday, November 8 2005 07:01
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From the CivFanatics Site: Good news for Macintosh Gamers! Civilization IV will be available for the Mac in early 2006 [ source ]. Aspyr Media will be bringing the game to the Mac. Civilization III: Complete (featuring both expansions of Civ3 :Play The World and Conquests ) will also be available for the Mac later this year, in December. Inside Mac Games article I was wrong about PTW and Conquests for Mac Civ III. It's good to be wrong sometimes. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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written Monday, November 7 2005 14:16
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Do you see these six words, DP? They are the worst I can see: hell tortured vomited abomination harlot fornication -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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written Monday, November 7 2005 13:51
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quote:Show me where God said so. Perhaps God was so good as to make that point clear for us in the last book written, the Revelation? quote:Isn’t it a huge assumption on your part that God decided to tell all humanity all we ever need to know about Him in Mesopotamia and Asia Minor circa 2000 B.C.-95 A.D.? What about Paul’s approach of being all things to all people? What of our time and our cultures and our languages today? How is God being, or in whom is God being all things to all people today? Or do all peoples of all times and places have to become infinitely acquainted with esoteric and intricate Semitic symbology, culture, and history to have any hope of understanding and embracing the truths of our universal Father? Isn’t that a noxious burden at best? There are lifetimes of knowledge and stories extricable from that collection of writings. Who has time for all that? Heck, who has time to read as much as I am able to write so quickly? quote:Why then, does Jesus then call himself continually, the “son of man”? Why couldn’t Jesus have been sent by God AND made by the flesh and blood of man? What is it about flesh which disqualifies any one from spiritual salvation or our promised perfection? I do hate this perspective which implies implicitly that there is something wrong with being physically human, that there is something wicked about flesh itself which God made.quote:It is not about the mixing of blood, it is the origination of Jesus. He was sent by God, not created by man. quote:So Jesus, who came to fulfill in spirit what the law presented in flesh, needs to be without blemish in flesh (whatever that means) to be spiritually perfect? How then is the promise fulfilled that Jesus was of the lineage of David, who was JOSEPH’S, and not Mary’s ancestor? Seriously, got an answer? Joseph is out of the picture in the Immaculate Conception picture. Flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom, according to Jesus. What difference then again, does flesh make to his or to our spiritual condition? The OT law was only a type and shadow of what God was getting at all along—spiritual conditions, not fleshly ones. Why was Jesus gestated through a woman at all, if the point and sign of a miraculous birth from heaven as deity was critical to establish? Why leave “all the appearances of evil”? Why did Jesus have to be a baby at all? He could have just appeared as God did to Moses or others to come show invisible God to us. quote:Wait, where do you get this? Is it in your Bible instruction manual? Or is it an extra-Biblical invention to get God off the hook from the full implications of the eternal torture doctrine? Why does anyone need a gospel at all, if we have this gospel-not-required loophole of being good enough in heart being able to merit God’s favor and salvation, having never heard the gospel or accepting or rejecting anything in particular? Why take the risk of telling the gospel to some perfectly nice people far away, and then guaranteeing their eternal torture when they decide to reject this lovely gift? (Who tortures anyone for declining a gift in the first place? What does that imply about the gift or the Giver?)quote:Those who have never heard the gospel will be judged just as those who have and everyone's heart motive will be most important. If your Bible is the source of all of God’s truth, then you can’t add to it. This is clearly made up out of thin air, saying that God didn’t give us all we need to know in the Bible after all. quote:I quote and paraphrase the words of another who has written well on this parable: “The scribes and Pharisees complained openly and bitterly against Jesus, condemning Him because He received sinners into His company and ate with them. Against this background of biting criticism Jesus stood and gave the teachings found in chapters fifteen and sixteen of Luke... “The rich man in this parable represents the Jewish nation, the house of Judah, and particularly their leaders who embody and personify the spirit and character of the nation. This rich man, in torment, calls Abraham, FATHER. Abraham also recognized such a relationship for he speaks to the rich man as SON. "Son, remember..." Here the rich man is seen to be separated from his father, for "In hell (hades) he lifts up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, FATHER ABRAHAM, have mercy on me...but Abraham said ... SON (Grk., teknon-offspring), between us and you (Grk., YOU PEOPLE) is a GREAT GULF FIXED: so that they (Grk., the ONES) which would pass from hence to you (Grk., YOU PEOPLE) cannot; neither can they pass that would come from thence." If we rightly divide the Word of God we will see that a plurality of people is being addressed, rather than a single individual. Clearly, this rich man was of Israel, of the seed of Abraham, and a blessed and highly favored company. The Pharisees boasted of their descent from Abraham and expected to enter Paradise because of that fact. “Purple is the color of royalty. Fine linen stands for righteousness in this instance the righteousness of the law, established by the priests and Levites who, dressed in white linen, officiated in the sacrifices and ceremonies of the nation. The rich man was "clothed in purple and fine linen." Those who are in purple are rulers. The rich man was a ruler. And Jesus never uttered His parables or sermons concerning someone away off in Siberia or China. He spoke to and of the Jews, the church of His day. Judah was the royal tribe, and purple is the color pertaining to royalty. The kingdom of Judah had the ministry of the priesthood - clothed in fine linen. The whole nation, in fact, was called to be a kingdom of priests unto God (Ex. 19:6). By this language Christ was making His meaning very clear to the Pharisees... “They were the prototype of the Laodicean church who in the book of Revelation is Pharisaic in its boast, "I am RICH ... and have need of nothing" (Rev. 3:17). That utterance embodies in a simple phrase the abominable attitude of the Pharisee towards God and man. It echoes the language of him who thanked "the God within" that he was not as other men, "not even as this publican." Little glimpsed he the truth of his real state, that he was "poor, blind, miserable, and naked" even as the Laodiceans were to be in all their vain self-sufficiency.” The Jews looked upon the heathen nations about them as barbarians and dogs. The literal Greek says, “The OTHER dogs licked Lazarus’ sores.” Lazarus too is seen as one of the dogs in this parable. “In this parable Lazarus was both a beggar and a dog - a beggar in his own eyes, but a dog in the eyes of the rich man. Without doubt Lazarus represented the neighbor kingdoms in Asia, Africa and Europe, right at Judah's gate, without promise, without covenant, without hope, without Christ, without God in the world. “Lazarus was carried to the bosom of Abraham but the rich man was buried, never to become the favored nation of God in their own right again. I want to emphasize this, because it is a very essential point. Lazarus was never buried, he was carried away to a bosom. But the rich man, it says, died AND WAS BURIED. Never again would the kingdom of Judah become the chosen nation of the Lord in their own right. “The expression "in Abraham's bosom" signifies being in the favor and in the place of honor of Abraham. The expression is borrowed from the custom of Christ's day of speaking of the honored guest who reclined nearest the host as reclining on his bosom.” It’s a lengthy dissection of the whole parable. I’ll summarize further. It’s about Jesus predicting the transition of grace and favor from the spritually-enriched, but stingy and spiteful religious rulers of Israel, to the dog gentile nations who until then had had to eat crumbs from the tables of the Jews, spiritually speaking. The Gentile nations were now to occupy the place of favor in “Abraham’s bosom” once reserved for Judah. The hades of torments the Jews were subjected to speaks of the nether realm of wandering, unknowing (Hades literally means “un-perception”) persecution, and torments the Jews have been suffering ever since, for the last 2000 years. No people has ever been as without a home, murdered, and persecuted in the history of the world. They have paid a terrible price for failing to love their neighbors as themselves, with their spiritual riches and privileges they had been given to bless all the nations. The chasm between them and restoration has been that of the “unpardonable sin” which was not to be forgiven the nation of Israel in that age (of the Law) or in the age to come (the Church age). I think it is common knowledge to Christians how nearly impossible it has been to convert Jews to the Christian faith. It is as if God has fixed a gulf and curtain in their own vision to the truth of the gospel. I was writing about this back a ways in this thread. Israel too has a promised restoration and return to grace and favor with God, and in the world we have witness to this beginning in the 20th century as the Jews at long last again found a home in Palestine. This too should indicate to us that a transition of ages in is in the works for all of us, for “the age to come” is wrapping up if the fortunes of Judah, one time rich man of the world who despised the dogs, are being at long last restored. If you don’t find this summary convincing for explaining the symbols Jesus used, I will be happy to send you the full text. It’s almost 40 pages long on this one parable alone. [ Monday, November 07, 2005 14:01: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |