Profile for Synergy
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | Synergy |
| Member number | 6292 |
| Title | Shaper |
| Postcount | 2009 |
| Homepage | |
| Registered | Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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| Civilization IV in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, October 28 2005 14:02
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http://forums.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/ -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| The Uglification of Thuryl in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, October 28 2005 13:56
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Man, it's great when I see something that makes me explode with loud laughter like this delightfully hilarious abomination just did. Can we have Alex bronzed and keep him forever and ever? :D -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, October 28 2005 13:37
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Despite how easy it is for me to write at length about a subject with which I am passionate and fascinated, I am ambivalent about doing so for the reasons I stated earlier. I don’t think much is often accomplished by arguing even simple facts, let alone beliefs and ideas. I like to talk about this stuff, but not to hope to change anyone’s mind with it, because it just doesn’t often happen that way. Salmon is entirely right. It’s the walk, not the talk which demonstrates faith and which has the real power of impact. Of course, there is not much else to do in an online forum besides talk, but I want to make it clear my intention is to explore and challenge ideas, not prosletyze. I got nothing to sell. Desert Pl@h, you kept asking me about whether or not I believe in the deity of Jesus, yet I answered that question at length and I think not ambiguously when Gizmo asked it. All I can think is that you didn’t really read my explanations before responding. Most of your rebuttals seem to generally involve saying that that’s not what Bible scholars get from the scriptures or that it simply goes against all of scripture, without much at all in way of elaboration or examination. Let’s all keep in mind that what is at debate is our understanding of and interpretation of scripture (and hopefully thinking for ourselves, does this add up? Is this consistent? Is it possible there are other perfectly good and non-threatening meanings and reasons this is here?), as well as our assumed requirement for what the scriptures have to be (are they a Divine Textbook perfectly transcribed from the Heavens or anything slightly more human and contextual, like a believer writing a letter of advice to a specific body of believers in Asia Minor in the first century?) Should it truly be difficult to imagine that majority belief (interpretation) is often wrong, and once wrong beliefs get rooted, like bad law on the books, they are notoriously difficult to eradicate? They become de facto by popular belief. As a courtesy, I will sum it up again though. I see Jesus as the premiere Son of God, just as we are also called sons of God and called into the sonship role Jesus demonstrated. Jesus was not God any more or any less than you and I “are” God. Our spiritual genetics is God stuff. We are of the kind of our Father, and like begets like according to both natural and spiritual law. We are not our Father, just as Jesus was not his Father, but we are in the God family with its qualities. Jesus said “I and the Father are One.” We are also called to be one with the Father (and one body together with our fellows) and to share the same “mind of Christ”. Will you quote what you believe Jesus said to claim he was God Himself? And just for fun, what do you make of the following? Ps 82:6 I say, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'? Because we have believed a lie and have seen ourselves through the eyes of sin and death (which come with acquiring our own judging of good and evil), we have lost recognition and exercise of our spiritual faculties and nature which are of our Father. It’s dormant there inside us, in our spirits, seeking reconnection with our Father who is the Sun in our galaxy, the Source of all life and the spirit of love which sums up all His myriad qualities. Because I believe we in time project and create an inner and outer environment which matches what we “see” and believe inside, we have shaped a corrupted and warring world to reflect our sense of lack and unworthiness—which breeds fear, which we all know leads to the Dark Side™. We have also recreated God in our own (false) image, assigning Him the base weaknesses, means, and limitations of mankind in its delirium of travail and disconnect. I see that Jesus came to show us what we are, but aren’t being, to show us what it looks like (Salmon approves?) not just tell us. It is easy for me, observing human history and human behavior to see how easy it is to build up faulty systems of understanding and doctrine for many centuries, eventually believed with such massive inertia that it becomes unthinkable to consider that someone way back when got it wrong. One billion people believing wrongly for 1700 years doesn’t make a thing any more the truth than the first time it was uttered by some mad monk™ or guy on the street corner who was a bit out to lunch. The effect of one very human and fallible man like Augustine or Dante upon perception and belief can be devastating when we follow men like sheep instead of “the mind of Christ” given to us to ascertain the truth of God. quote:Semantics are getting blurry here. I don’t disagree that scriptures talk about heaven in terms of a place, but my point is that that “place” is spiritual in nature and is nothing like our idea of “place” in the physical realm. That “place” is inside us and experienced through our spirits wherever we happen to physically be, rather than being in a specific location in the universe. We don’t “go” anywhere when we enter the heavenly realm, heaven, the Kingdom of Heaven. Our spiritual condition and “placement” transforms. I don’t believe that by dying physically we are suddenly perfected and enter into some fullblown spiritual condition we never aspired to in our living life. Why live at all if that’s the case? It makes a good case to have someone knock you off or even consider suicide. But the Kingdom of Heaven is shown to be a place of reward unlike salvation/opening of the door to that realm. It is a prize to be fought for, a race to be run, a crown to be won. True salvation is salvation from ourselves, our former ways of thinking and being. There are no short cuts. We have to have that life and transformation inworked. That’s a scriptural principle, and that principle isn’t going to be circumvented by the momentary state of one’s physical body. Authority is not given to children. It’s simple. It’s given to sons who grow up and show themselves responsible and mature enough to start taking on the business of the father. quote:The meaning I get is that you hope to convince me that what I have offered is wrong without any direct examination of the points themselves. quote:I haven’t read Sphere. It’s an esoteric topic, but yes, I believe that much of what we presently perceive as reality is shaped by the collective projection of all humankind and its thinking. I have two small related examples. One: a biologist named Bruce Lipton has written on research which indicates that a woman’s perception of her environment while pregnant (is she afraid, angry, at peace and rest, happy, secure, etc.) selects the genes of the baby. Similarly, we can activate and shut down our own genes based on how we are perceiving our environment. If we are in fight and fear mode, we are not in growth mode and our bodies adapt accordingly. Thoughts translate into genetics ultimately. Two: my own experience, which others may have noticed in some way for themselves. When I am tired, grumpy, depressed or angry, and I look at myself in the mirror, I can appear quite different to myself than I do at other times—generally more ugly to my eyes. In an extreme case, you get body dysmorphia, where a person does not see in the mirror at all what their physical appearance actually is. Or flipping it around, when we fall in love with someone, it is remarkable how attractive they can become. Obviously, nothing physical has changed, but our perception of our environment has changed to the degree that the physical actually can appear different to us. These just hint at a deeper principle in operation I believe. It’s not theory that thoughts emanate and are made of energies which affect our bodies. Cognitions and emotions both have many notable physiological effects upon our bodies. quote:Riibu will probably be able to say better than I could. I don’t know much of specific JW doctrine, but I know there are similarities at points. JW’s have some truth as do all denominations of belief. There’s no corner on the market of truth. God rains on the just and on the unjust. The conceit of so much religion is to imagine it has some exclusive truth. I see all things as mixture. It’s our job to exercise spiritual faculties to divide and discern, because there is a lot of bathwater, and also a lot of babies within it. God condescends to be known in many limited and even distasteful ways. He entertains many of our childish notions of Him until we grow up more and can move on to more mature thinking. So He meets us in all that foolish pomp and ceremony and tired ritual we call Church. But He meets others entirely outside those confines and limitations too. I don’t care about someone’s originating belief system. I care to find people with open, inquiring hearts and minds, who have a passion for God and love and truth more than for defending any system or tradition of men. Again, on the virgin birth, I explained my thoughts on New Testament accounts on the matter, and I invite you to examine the Old Testament “virgin” in Hebrew and decide for yourself. The best thing you can do for yourself in seminary is to question everything “they” tell you and not surrender authority to those following long-standing, but perhaps not closely scrutinized tradition. We are of a modern western culture, and the Bible comes from an ancient eastern tradition. Two very different mindsets. Yet I see so much of modern Christian thought trying to ascertain meaning through English words and western thinking (and philosophy). More importantly, on the Virgin Issue, I’d like someone to address my simple, logical query why flesh and blood signifies ANYTHING of usefulness to us where our spiritual condition is concerned, and based on the new paradigm of inner spirituality Jesus came to reveal? Why would it make any difference at all whether Jesus was born of man and woman? And if he was not, where is our hope to aspire to be a perfect reflection of him? If he was not one of us, then he had advantages we cannot hope to have and our invitation to do so is pathetically insulting. Was Jesus a magically-enabled superman/God alien to us in all but appearance as flesh, or truly our elder brother sharing in our humanity, first born Son of many. I should also point out that 1) The virgin birth is entirely unimportant to me based upon my understanding of salvation and the character and motivation of God. It wouldn’t make a difference either way because I do not believe in flesh and blood having anything to do with our spiritual ability. What I do see is a lot of scripture given as concrete earthly symbols of spiritual realities (the blood of sacrifices, laws concerned with carnality, the creation and garden allegories, etc.) 2) This is a personal conclusion and ongoing inquiry of my own, initially prompted for me by similar thinking on the part of a friend a couple years back. The thing is, I can no longer find any sensibility or purpose to a virgin birth in context of the God I know. I can see a lot of ways such a carnal aspect wound up being so central to religious-minded thinking though. quote:Which author are you referring to? What’s false? The sun really does run around the earth? It IS better to be a living dog than a dead man? Peter’s gospel of grace mixed with works or Paul’s gospel of grace alone? quote:Tsk tsk. Not at creation, at man’s fall from his divine union with God symbolized in the allegory of the garden and the trees. And let’s not add to the “made roles” of men and women. It was simply stated that women would become subordinate to men as part of the curse, and it is a curse, because it is not God’s order, nor the one we need cling to when we move back into spiritual union and principles of love. Let me say a little more why this can be. When you lack harmony and love, law becomes necessary to keep order. When you lose inner rule, outer rule becomes required. Man and women were co-equals in creation, a beautiful splitting of distinct aspects of God, and powerful spiritual symbols in flesh form, not to mention a joyful and beautiful thing for us. Only under a curse where man loses his connection to the divine does he contend with himself. Where there is mature love, no one need rule over anyone. Long-married couples almost become psychic in knowing one another and meeting each other’s needs. When they truly mature in loving each other, no one has any need to rule over the other, because there is no discord to require vying for domination. Man and woman represent spirit and soul. When our souls have fallen out of harmony with and union with the spirit, the soul must be subjected to the rule of spirit until the two become united again. The soul is not evil, just as woman is not inherently inferior or wayward. Initially, Christianity did much to improve the lot of women in a pagan world through its general principles of love and charity. Subsequently, ironically, it has hampered the progress of gender roles and a balanced valuation of women. This too shall pass. Paul (also ironically) made it clear there is “no male or female” in the heavenly realm (in the place where the Godly rule of love has taken root within lives). There is no more value or limitation assigned to you or me or anyone by our flesh, our gender, our genetics, our race, our anything. As much as it is another central issue for me, I’m not going to tackle gender issues here. I suggest that so much of what we have assumed or been taught is somehow inherently “male” or “female” is a complete crock, and results mostly from millennia of roleplay and modeling from day one in baby’s life and a social environment in which tremendous pressure and modeling is put upon us our whole lives. I know women who make better “men” than men, and vice-versa. I think it’s high time we let go of the boxes and let people just be who they are and do what they do best without prejudice based on gender. Who says what our roles in life have to look like because of the biology of our bodies? Some of the world is well ahead of Christianity on this awareness and concern. quote:At best, huh? If you mean my faith is not centered in a Jesus Deity, you’re right. I love and admire my big brother tremendously. Show me where Jesus asked to be worshipped as deity? What this difference in “faith” has given me is tremendous faith in my Father and in my many brothers and sisters who also are called to reflect the anointed image of God as Jesus did so well. It’s our birthright, and he called us back into it and showed us it could be done. My faith means I am no longer permitted to condemn, judge or despise any of brothers and sisters in this world. They too have the essence of God within, and are no less beloved and wrought in purpose than I am. They have just as much unique potential, ability, and beauty as I or any other. Seeing Jesus as the Pattern Son instead of an alien deity means humanity for me is lifted out of the mud religion forever berates it and itself back into. This is what is so sad about the state of the Christian faith to me. So little cause for real JOY, hope, or optimism according to their small and selective view of their own God, often patterned after the failings of their own hearts, if they only knew it. There are so many glowing promises of God being all in all in the end, wiping away all tears from all eyes, the salvation of all, all things made new (renewed), the healing of all nations, the kingdoms of the earth all becoming the Lord’s, the summing up of all things in Christ, a feast of Tabernacles which represents the full harvest and which Christians ignore, thinking their firstfruits sampling of the harvest they now have in Pentecost represents the best it gets. There are many unfufilled promises and prophecies about God’s conquering of all hearts and nations, and it’s not at the point of a sword. Christianity largely has a very miserable, pathetic, and loserly view of God. I don’t. I won’t. I can’t. We look like the God we perceive and the God we worship. The size of our hearts reflect the size of our God’s heart. If our God is small and loses many billions of His own kids to an unthinkable fate to some self-made adversary, while running away from His own creation with a handful of His pet favorites, well, what a colossal loser. What a wimp. What a jerk. And what a liar. Sure sounds like human behavior, not that of a sovereign and omiscient and purposeful God Who created this utterly incredible universe. The nature and workings of God excite me, and for good reason. It’s excite-worthy. quote:I kind of like it when you do that, Riibu. [ Saturday, October 29, 2005 17:02: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Creative Writing in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, October 27 2005 16:08
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quote:The sort who dyes her hair black and goes to Skinny Puppy concerts. quote:Yes, in spite of my poems, for a season. Then she gleefully ripped my heart from my chest and ground it into the earth with oh so much gothic-romantic, tragic finesse. I can't remember writing a poem since, come to think of it. Ain't love grand? :D [ Thursday, October 27, 2005 16:09: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, October 27 2005 15:46
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I've been acquring way too many of those darn :eek: faces lately. Of course, it IS nearly Halloween. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Creative Writing in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, October 27 2005 13:26
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Oh, you probably didn't. It was dripping with sarcasm, but I also meant it as a legitimate challenge out of curiosity. -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Creative Writing in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, October 27 2005 11:31
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Imban, you're right, no one needs a marriage counselor to know or to be told their marriage is in big trouble. That's not what marriage counselors are for. Sure, anyone with half a sense for art can criticize a poem, despite much of the process being subjective and personal. TM scrutinized every line of SupaNiik's poem with exacting concision. He shows he knows exactly what is wrong at every point and even suggested how to make some lines "good." I think TM should demonstrate the "right" way to write Nik's poem by rewriting it according to all the rules for making a "good" poem. Then that aptitude for dissection would actually be worth something. [ Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:43: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Rhetorical Survey in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, October 27 2005 00:47
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I await the elabo-rated ruseults of this poll with rated breath. :P *sniff* *sniff* Holy bat breath, Batman. Have a Tic-Tac. [ Thursday, October 27, 2005 00:52: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Creative Writing in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, October 27 2005 00:30
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I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I've written very few poems in my life. This is one I wrote when I was 20—quite some time ago. It was just a personal experiment as I knew and continue to know almost nothing technical about poetry. I consider it self-indulgent adolescent gothic-romantic fantasy, and I had a somewhat overly-ornate and complicated way of writing back then. I sent it to the girl I was in love with. We broke up some months later, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't just because of the poem. ;) THE REBEL'S RETURN The air hung thick, starved for sound A passage barren Black death to share Ahead, a savage lair in Which no hope, no life, no breath to spare Cold iron gates stood firmly bound A sudden tremor, rumbling loud Then crack of light Tinged in fiery glow Between walls of silent might, With tortured groan of buckled steel, did show White mist hissed forth, spreading ghostly shroud Deafening crash of shattered bones Frightened echoes fleeing Down vacant hall Dark shape of being In shadow's guise, cast upon the wall Metal, lifeless twisted on the stones And then, silence; the vapors fled Sullen, drifting ashes Fell to blackened earth Drunken light, tossed in splashes Forth to show, in widened berth A silhouette 'gainst crackling flames of liquid red He stood alone, grim and pale Cloak stained and torn Black boots rooted to the floor A wisp of hair in eyes to scorn Broken gates, as turning gaze upon the door In vengeance cursed the death he did assail And in his hand a long streaked sword Tightly held in grip Of iron, gleamed like ice; The quiet but persistent drip Of crimson blood from blade, the vice Of every victor and every victor's reward In the shadows deep, the fires burned Darker, lower in vanquished gloom He stepped across The threshold, strode from halls of doom Stars and moon outside to greet; no loss From Hell itself, The Rebel hath indeed returned! [ Thursday, October 27, 2005 16:00: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Creative Writing in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, October 26 2005 20:47
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Just as I suspected. Another unmarried marriage counselor. EDIT: Hmm, I wasn't making an argument at all. I seriously would like to see the kind of poetry constructed by someone who is able to dissect another poem with such cold concision. If we are comparing the skills of software game building to the art of writing poetry, I'm a bit amused. I'd not be inclined to mention the two in the same sentence. Despite that, never mind. SupaNik did invite comment with the particular phrase to "rip it apart" and even bothered to invoke the TM demon by name, so I guess he got what he asked for. I've seen worse from 18 year olds. Harkening back to the U.S. court history debating decency and specifically referencing pornography, I can say I don't know how to define good poetry, but I know it when I see it. I think a good native sense of aesthetics and a healthy dose of intuition are probably more critical to make pleasing prose than knowing "the rules." I'm certain that a truly good poet can break many of those supposed "rules" of writing a good poem and still create something powerful and evocative. [ Thursday, October 27, 2005 00:17: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Creative Writing in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, October 26 2005 20:00
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I propose that TM offer us a brilliant example of his own poetry, as it seems he has mastered all the techniques for proper poem assembly. [ Wednesday, October 26, 2005 20:12: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, October 26 2005 18:28
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quote:I’ll be interested to hear what you dig and what you don't. quote:I find that hard to believe. When you do start sharing your thoughts, will you do me a favor and preface it with a little of your background and faith system or whatever seems relevant? quote:Passion—an international lanuage? Your English seems quite good to me. If there’s something you want me to reword or clarify, I’m sure you’ll ask. quote:By all means cut in. quote:Hmm, I scored highest on Liberal Christian Protestant. However, I found, like most tests which ask multiple-choice questions, that I frequently could not find an answer which actually expressed the answer I would like to give, so I had to approximate my answers numerous times. How did you score? Chico, I don't want you to be scared, except on scary night this month. I’m not sure if the title of “evangelist” is as distasteful to you as it is to me, but I’ll assume the best—that you didn’t mean it as an insult. Gizmo, I'm not going anywhere. At your convenience. [ Thursday, October 27, 2005 15:52: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, October 26 2005 10:07
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quote:The latter first: I certainly believe in the resurrection. Lazarus was resurrected too, and he was human, though Lazarus was resurrected in his old body only to die again at some later point. There is a little-noted scripture that states that upon Jesus’ death and resurrection there was an earthquake and numerous graves were opened and other persons also were resurrected and seen by many. Jesus was connected and in harmony with the life of God to the degree where the incorruptible life of the Spirit could not be held back by a little thing like the death of the physical body. I understand that the physical realm is something of a pale shadow of the spiritual universe which is the more real of the two. That’s a mind-blower because all we’ve consciously known is the physical and what could seem more real? We have a spirit body within though, which is our more true being and form of being. Paul talked a little about the spirit body which is promised to the overcomer, even as he shuddered at the thought of having no body at all upon leaving his physical form. Jesus was resurrected in this spirit body, yet it has distinctive features which seem to marry the heavenly with the earthly. It’s a fusion of the two. Jesus at times appeared entirely corporeal and Thomas put his fingers into the nail marks at one point. He ate with them. He was seen for 40 days by many people. At another point he wasn’t even recognized by his disciples walking with him on the road. The body is somehow both flesh and spirit fused, bypassing the laws which govern the physical. He could walk through a wall, yet we’re not talking about a ghost. The promise to all who enter fully into the life of God as Jesus demonstrated was this kind of “new creation” body. The ark of the covenant is a good symbol for God’s intention for humankind. It was made of gnarly gopher wood which is extremely twisty and knotty wood that grows in the desert. A fine layer of gold (which represents the divine and incorruptible, as gold is beautiful and does not tarnish) was beaten so thinly onto the surface of the ark that it became transparent and you could see all the wood and its grains and texture and “imperfections”. This is what a Son looks like....humanity, quirks, personalities showing through the divinity of God. We don’t lose our humanity...we put on the divinity. We don’t really know much about it yet, because it hasn’t been the time in the earth yet for humankind to really begin to enter into fully what Jesus demonstrated, though I think spiritually we can look forward to some dramatic new steps and expansion to occur. I do believe we are in the time of a transition between ages after about 2000 years of the “Church age”. It always gets bigger and better with God. The next things to unfold in the earth will blow away the relative wonders of the last age. It would be appropriate to mention that while Christianity has somehow come to fixate on a far off heaven which you need only die in your physical body to gain full admittance into, I don’t see Jesus or Scripture ever really saying any such thing. There is a spiritual realm all about us. There is no place heaven, but there is a heavenly realm, the spiritual realm where God rules through spiritual law, as the physical realm is ruled by the laws of the physical. The spiritual realm is not just some glorified invisible three-dimensional celestial playground. It operates in very different ways, just as the language of spirit all throughout scritpures and in prophecies is highly symbolic. The language of spirit leaves the literal and the concrete of the physical world behind. For instance, ministers who have seen “evil spirits” via spiritual faculties (we have spiritual eyes and physical eyes—all our senses have spiritual counterparts we can learn to use), see something in the same place at the same time, but describe it entirely differently. Spiritual vision is very shaped by our own uniqueness and speaks to us in relevant and typically symbolic terms. We project our concept of what “fear” looks like and that is how a spirit of fear appears to us in the realm of spirit. There is no literal little “imp” standing over there which literally is a spirit of fear. Spirit is just an energy anyway. I see lots of dialogue in the scriptures which point to a new world being fashioned out of this world we know now...not by blowing it up and starting over, as if God finally has to admit what a failure His first attempt was (what kind of loser God do we we think we have, anyway?) All things are made new because when the spirit of God, of love begins to really take root in humanity and more and more of the hampering crud of natural-minded thinking and religion is shed, people will begin to change in amazing ways, accomplish amazing things, and even the whole world as we have known it will change to reflect our spiritual projection of it, upon it, if you will. That’s just my inkling of how it works in a general sense. I am convinced this natural world reflects the spiritual condition of its inhabitants and in a sense we bind ourselves to physical laws of death and decay by massively collectively believing into it. The power of belief is tremendous, and because we have spiritual faculties and power of some degree even in a detached state, what we see of ourselves and our world in our minds is what we perpetuate. When we start inwardly seeing things differently (which the Mind of Christ/God working in us enables), then all the outward, including our very own bodies begins to change. We can see a small degree of how this works by somatization—the effect of the mind and emotions upon our physical bodies. Thoughts have energy, just as spirit is energy. Frankly, I have no idea where one stops and the next begins, because all things are energy ultimately, and all we are really talking about here is different frequencies. Feelings of love and feelings of fear have distinctive energetic patterns and frequencies associated with them, and they do have an effect on our whole physical being. This is why our attitudes and words towards each other are important. We really can bless or curse people with our words and attitudes. As James said, the tongue is indeed a little rudder steering a mighty ship. A spiritually grounded person can counter the negative attitudes of others. We are not necessarily vulnerable, thankfully. So, what I was getting to is that I see God’s future working in this world (and as described in scripture) as the transforming of this world through its citizens, or as Paul described it, as the “body of Christ” or the “anointed body” working in union with the mind of God. This will probably have little to do with the pale shadow of that promise we have seen so far called “Church”. I don’t see humans or this planet going away for a long long time. There is lots to do and get right here, and after that there is a huge universe out there with God knows what in it or what to do in it. Don’t you want to know? But we have our own planet to perfect first. We have to learn to love each other and see what is accomplished through that way of being. Heaven as we have imagined it is really the “Kingdom of God” coming down to earth (as depicted in the New Jerusalem symbolically in Revelation). Heaven and hell really are experiences we have within and reflect the condition of our souls. The heavenly spiritual realm is destined to fuse with the earthly realm we have known and make something that is both heavenly and earthly, yet neither, but something new. I don’t know about you, but I love this world and its beauty, its people, and its potential. I don’t want to surrender it to defeate or destruction or run away from it and laze around in the sky as some kind of “reward”. Real reward for being faithful to Love is being given privilege and authority to bless and transform one another and this creation to the perfection it is designed for and promised for. We got a lot of work to do as we grow up. The garden has not been much tended. The reward is the privilege to serve with authority. So, um, yes, I believe in resurrection, and I believe it is necessary for all of us to enter into to that new spirit-body life ultimately be enabled to complete the true work we are called to do in heaven and earth. We are made to work, to wrestle with elements, to explore, to expand, to create, not to laze around self-indulgently, congratulating we privileged few on our narrow escape. That’s just perverse and does great discredit to our wise and mighty and purposeful God. The first the latter: VIRGIN BIRTH. Yeeps, a very sensitive subject for sure, because huge idols have been erected around this one too. But before exploring that a bit, I want to ask, why is it necessary that Jesus be born of something alien to humankind to fulfill his role or to be connected with the divine? If we are challenged to enter into the very same life and perfection, as in running a race to seize the prize, then if Jesus was something we by default can never be (because what, his blood or genetics are only half human?) then we really have no hope. But we are all called the sons of God. Jesus said, “You will do greater things than I have done.” Jesus came to talk about a spiritual rulership, a spiritual God, and the spiritual condition of hearts instead of the outer trappings of law and religion and literal kings on thrones which the Jews hoped and believed their Savior would assume (lusting for the earthly glory of Kind David again). Jesus came and said it’s not about flesh and blood anymore, and he made it clear salvation was avaiable to all humankind, not a specific ethnic or religious population. What possible difference can your flesh and blood make to entitle you to a new life fused with the divine in God? Flesh is no limitation. Jesus made a strong point to demonstrate this too by picking cussing fishermen and sleazy tax collectors to be his apostles. Flesh, blood, mind, intellect, etc. are not the qualifiers or enablers of spiritual might and worthiness. Jesus didn’t have to be divinely different from his brothers to do what he did. We are the ones with our eyes on flesh and blood (even hoping to see him return in flesh and blood despite scripture saying “hereafter will we see him no more as we have seen him, after the flesh.” So, up front, if we understand how the spiritual realm works, we can’t claim that flesh or blood or genetics can have any role in granting access to the life of God. Jesus did not have any requirement to be born of a woman who had never had sex or had some “divine” seed planted in her as apposed to the perfectly natural seeds we all come from, yet don’t disqualify us from being called up into the divine so we too may reflect perfectly the life Jesus showed. We have a prophecy or two in Isaiah, I believe, which mentions the future Savior to be born of a virgin. Thing is, that word “virgin” in Hebrew isn’t talking about her sexual status like we use the word now. It simply meant a young marriagable maiden. But the Jews were good at misinterpreting and carnalizing their scriptures, no different from Christians today. They built up a great hope and mythology of some extra-earthly superhero who would rule on the literal throne of Israel and restore their glory and riches to them and subdue all their enemies. I don’t believe in the necessity for “infallibility” in scriptures. God permits our quirks and dare I say, imperfections and limitations, of humanity to show through the divine gold. You don’t have to be “perfect” as we judge it to be the vessel of God and an agent of life. Peter and Paul taught two different gospels. The four gospels do not agree on various details of Jesus’ life, words, and deeds. Christians have at some point decided that God gave them a divine textbook which is perfect in every way. God never said any such thing. Have you read Ecclesiastes? Do you follow it as law and truth? Cuz you’d be foolish to do it. It is a poetic book written by Solomon describing life entirely from the perspective of one who has no God. “To be a living dog is better than to be a dead man in the grave.” It’s in your Bible. Is it the Word of God? Nope, it’s a word of a man, but it serves a useful purpose if we have some spiritual discernment. I see all of scripture in this light, not merely the most obvious examples. OT passages describe the sun making a run around the earth like a chariot in the sky, when we all know God knew perfectly well that the earth goes around the sun. Ooops, God permitted the fallible perspective of MAN to be present in that “perfect” book. Moreso that we dare imagine. If we believe in a dynamic and interactive God Who does connect with us and enables our spiritual eyes of discernment, we don’t have to have perfectly pure truth on hand to be able to derive and discern truth. The humanity of the writers of scripture still shows through, and they wrote from the limitations of their time and culture. Paul didn’t think much of women apparently (I’d love to sit down as a therapist with him and find out why), and God didn’t remove that discrimination from him or his writings, though I disagree with his view of women. I admire the hell out of women. They are no less fit to teach, minister, or anything else. They have tremendous strength and courage. Women typically endure pain better than men, etc. Flesh and blood does not differently enable us in God’s eyes. Despite Paul’s personal bias, I see amazingly inspired truths in much of what Paul learned through his spending three years seeking God alone in the deserts of Arabia. Our humanity and imperfection is permitted and not all immediately eradicated. We can see it in the Bible and its inhabitants. It’s not a threat to the presence of the truth and our ability to know it. It does require our personsal responsibility to learn to discern. That takes the anointed mind of the Spirit working actively within. If we lazily stay in our natural means of perception, we get religion and countless denominations instead. And we get deceived and we build fear into our doctrines. History testifies painfully to this fact, but it will not always be the way we have so far witnessed. It gets better. It just hasn’t been time for the step up yet. We had to learn a long, bitter lesson about the futility of trying to bring in the Kingdom through natural effort and largely without the divine interconnection with God which is necessary. We have paid lip service to God but have gone about our business largely on our own terms. It hasn’t concerned me greatly, picking apart New Testament scriptures about the virgin birth, because it’s a very unimportant issue to me. It is possible that it was written in subsequently in an effort to deify the Christ through natural-minded thinking which didn’t understand that Jesus’ very point in coming as man was to show us what we can look like too if we reconnect to our Father. Jesus himself said, “Flesh and blood does not inherit the Kingdom.” How can the nature of Jesus’ own biology enable him to do it? It’s childish thinking. We ever have our eyes on the earthly, the literal, the carnal, flesh and blood. This misunderstanding and obsession is at the heart of Aryan elitism. Even Hitler and the Nazis used Christian doctrine to justify their flesh and blood-obsession. That’s shameful, and Christianity has much accountability on its hands for perpetuating doctrines of flesh and blood which has led to the shedding of much blood. Personally, I don’t believe Jesus was born of a magic sperm and an earthly egg or even a completely heavenly zygote. The baby still gets fed by the placenta of Mary. If literal blood defiles a man, then Jesus was defiled by Mary, for no one was able to be sinless under the law. It makes no difference. It wouldn’t even matter one little bit if Jesus were an “illegitimate” birth. There is no physical deed which can disqualify a person from the divine invitation. There is no taint which cannot be removed. Sexual “sins” are no more tarnishing or wicked than those little white lies we habitually tell, though the earthly consequences may be graver. I would actually take great comfort in knowing Jesus was born as the result of a young loving couple who acted irresponsibly in a moment of passion and faced a stoning death if found out (if I recall Hebrew law correctly). Now that’s human, that I can relate to, and that gives me hope that I can touch the divine depite my own lackings and failings and stupid mistakes. Jesus is a descendant of Rahab the harlot found in Jericho, and David, an adulterer and murderer. What kind of blood is this? Consider also that Joseph was the physical descendant of David the prophecies required for Jesus to be of the line of David. If Joseph had no role at all whatsoever in bringing Jesus into being, then the prophecies were lies. I’m thinking (according also to Occam’s Razor, heh) that the simplest explanation was the true one—Jesus was born of the line of David by the seed of Joseph, and one reason they may have both been traveling around so much together was to escape the judgement of those who knew them back home and would note Mary’s out-of-wedlock pregnancy. A bastard child, a lowly carpenter with prostitutes and street scum for friends, who kicked over the money tables in the temple in a fit of disgust and drove the merchandizers out with a whip (let’s got get the televangelists next!)...This is the guy who still was perfectly qualified and suited to show us what connection with the Divine life of the Father looks like...and wonder of wonders, he then calls all the rest of us bastard (figuratively or literally) lowlifes into the same life. It shows humanity and the divine fused happily together as in the ark, a prefiguring of the Son(s) of God. Because what goes into a man (or woman) can’t defile him or her. There is no unpardonable sin. There is nothing in heaven or earth or hell or the depths of the seas or heights of the skies that can separate us from the love of God. That’s simply the nature of any good parent. And it’s another one of those lovely promises in the scriptures I think we haven’t much believed. [ Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:33: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Riddles & Brain Teasers in General | |
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Shaper
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 23:36
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1) I have two American coins in my hands equalling fifty-five cents, but one of them is not a nickel. What are the two coins? 2) A big Indian and a little Indian are sitting on a fence. The little Indian is the big Indian's son, but the big Indian is not the little Indian's father. Who is the big Indian? -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 21:07
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Umm...thanks, Riibu...I think. I don't remember whining about anything. I'm just my own worst critic and am prone to change my mind on a whim. Either that or you brilliantly pegged me—it's all a cheap ploy to drum up hype and interest. You decide... :cool: EDIT: Ash, great quote. I may have to adopt it. [ Tuesday, October 25, 2005 21:32: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Civilization IV in General | |
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Shaper
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 20:58
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I hate to bend it to you, breaker....er, wait, no that's not right... I hate to break it to you Bender, but if Conquests and PTW weren't ported to Mac about three years ago (which they weren't) they sure aren't about to do it now. A grievance that persists to this day with me. I did get some mileage out of the Double Your Pleasure mod to Mac Civ III--it significantly alters and adds to the game. There are many better graphics to mod into CivIII too. I was shocked at how ugly and boring most of the CIv III graphics were. Civ II actually looked better for the most part, except the unit animations...those were nice. Civ IV looks like it should be palatable visually, but I'm not sure how good the 3-D world is going to look...polygon rendering and all. The hardware requirements are steep too. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 14:58
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Which gi-normous post do you mean, Eph? The one which apparently caused Ash earlier to say, "Wow!" or the still not so short highly abbreviated version you see up there now? AFTERTHOUGHT #1: I'd like to think I'm very much with you on the simplicity track. I am convinced all the great truths of life and our reality are simple enough for children to understand at heart. What makes it so lengthy and complicated to discuss is all the religious baggage of history one has to go up against to try to re-reduce it all to simple, basic truths. My approach to and philsophy for living is very simple. I could sum it up in a couple of sentences probably, and some of that is actually my own original thought and conclusion rather than the reduction of others. [ Tuesday, October 25, 2005 15:02: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Calling all "Piss Heads" in General | |
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Shaper
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 14:45
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Amazingly enough, I find myself with a little something to contribute to this thread on its original topic. It's my very favorite line from the James Herriot books. If I recall correctly, Siegfried takes a look at his younger playboy of a brother after a particularly late and revelrous night of excessive beer consumption and declares, "Tristan, your eyes look like two piss-holes in the snow." Somehow that line amuses me greatly: crass, but oh, so picturesque. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Civilization IV in General | |
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Shaper
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 14:36
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Civ III had some problems, including a very tedious late game phase. That didn't stop me from playing it way too much, but I didn't have much a life at that point either. So, you got a point, and I think it is: GAMES ARE EVIL! I hate anything that takes human beings away from actual contact and interaction with each other, and so many things, including games do that. So it is perhaps God's happy little joke on me that I love games so much. AFTERTHOUGHT #1: Just as well I can't get my mitts on this one right now anyway. I'm still whittling away at this massive Avernum 4 beta. It's huge! [ Tuesday, October 25, 2005 14:55: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 14:27
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Who could say no to someone named Gizmo? Your wish is my command. I think one or two people here might have actually read my novellette before I edited it down a wee bit....which was another fun exercise in itself. Hope I don't break your mailbox...here comes...pour yourself some tea or cocoa and get comfy. I think I was pretty nice...you shouldn't regret giving it a peek I s'pose. P.S. If you ask me nicely and you think it's worth the bother, I'll even consider inflicting it back into this thread. :D EDIT 1: Oh, Gizzy-mo, your PM mailbox is all stuffed up again. No can do. EDIT 2: Maybe one PM from me fills up an entire mailbox, huh? And I'm not sure I like the way you said, "get rid of it"! EDIT 3: I still get this message: "Sorry, either the user or the board administrator is blocking access to this email address." EDIT 4: Incoming! (email) [picture telephone book dropping out of sky onto desktop with very loud noise] [ Tuesday, October 25, 2005 14:51: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Civilization IV in General | |
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Shaper
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 14:18
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Oh, man, now for all you folks out there grumbling about how we Mac users get to beta test first and get the SW games first, here is a much more typical situation for me—the game I'm most in love with of course goes to the Windoze folks first. Here's my secret: I'm a Civ fan above all other games. Nothing gives me the same satisfaction....or addiction. I'll have to scoot on over to the Civ IV site and start watching the feedback rolling in. It would be great to hear opinions from anyone here who might get it. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 09:24
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The "guy" I was poking fun at was myself, not anyone who responded. There is over a decade of personal intensive immersion into exploring the belief syterm/perspectives I express just a little of (ha ha) above. They are not my own ideas primarily, though it is something of an amalgamation and fusion. There are sizable rationalist arguments behind many of the points I make, mostly useful to people who grew up in some kind of Christian faith, but I have learned long ago it's not really worth arguing much on proofs about translational issues and cultural contextual issues and whatnot. People aren't often convinced by the most blatant facts about meanings of Greek words, (there is no "eternal" torment in Scipture!) or say, the simple first verse of the book of Revelation which says, "this book is given in SIGNS" (therefore it is not about literal flaming mountains falling into oceans and turning into blood), but many people don't want to be rational where a lifetime of invested faith and dogma (and fear) is threatened. It's a scary thing to even consider your former foundation of knowledge and security may be less sure than long assumed. But I'm a fighter and an optimist, so I still throw things out in case anyone wants to chew on them at all . -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, October 25 2005 07:46
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Holy Highway to Heck, Batman, we've reached critical mass! What's this guy's problem, anyway? Now you can see why I wish I wouldn't dig into the spiritual stuff in writing. If I try to do it, it's gonna be way too long and no one is going to read it anyway. I will guess that maybe three people will actually read it, but I wrote it mostly for Jewels since she asked.I got nothin' to sell. It's a good exercise though, compiling thoughts and arguments and perspectives into writing. And then there is the amusing unpredictability SW factor: where a topic begins may have nothing to do with where it goes next. -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, October 24 2005 23:42
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EDIT: The last shall be first: first the streamlined form: quote:Yet not by outward compulsion or inward struggle for control, simply out of your own changing nature from within. You'll naturally not commit any "tresspass". quote:Or maybe that actually is exactly what it is because it is good for us to be free to learn from our mistakes without condemnation or fear, and because it is more about our learning and growing up into maturity and wisdom, than it is about never "doing anything wrong." quote:There is no such animal. Christian mythology shoddily constructed out of three verses written by John mismatched with symbology in Revelation and a few other oddities thrown in. Christians waste a good fear on a superman who is never to materialize. quote:The Sun has three aspects: an invisible body of mass which is a source of terrific fusion energy and radiation. That radiation moves through space invisibly as energy waves at tremendous speed. When it hits my body, it becomes visible as light in my eye and creates heat upon my skin—it makes my life possible from 93 million miles away. That's how I see God...you can see three aspects of His being and influence, but it's one God, one Source, not three Gods. Jesus was connected to the Source and became a visible expression of that Source. __________________________________________________________________ EDIT: The first shall be last: last—the original unadulterated post with a few enhancements and, yes, expansions. quote:A good part of me is not too keen on pursuing this, because ironically, I really have minimal faith in the process of argument alone to open people’s eyes to new perspectives on God. (At the same time, argument is not a dirty word nor does it need imply aggression). To even begin to do any of these very rich and deep topics justice takes way more words than is possible or appropriate here, really. Compromising that invites misunderstanding at best. I’ll respond though, since you’ve made some inquiry and another part of me somehow hopes that what I just said might somehow not entirely be the case. I think I’ve been stating in a few ways that what I see as inspired and valuable in Scriptures is the deeper spiritual symbology the surfacy things including the old literal law really point to and talk about. Under the old law, what went into a man defiled him. Jesus came along and said, it’s really what comes out of you (your heart and mouth—your spirit and attitude being expressed) which is what defiles us. So, when I look at the old law and the ten commandments, I really see a deeper significance to the points they once made in a literal way. And these principles, while having practical and real applications, are highly spiritual in nature. They speak of spiritual laws and principles. Keeping the sabbath holy...well, do we really think the God of all time and space and of all creation needs us to stop everything and pay forced ritualized homage to Him, or that He “needs” our worship that requires us to take a special day of the week to do something religious? Fathers simply want the continual (not intermittent) love, respect, and emulation of their children, so they grow up wisely and balanced and disciplined, rejecting foolish and hurtful selfish things and learning to use their talents for the good of all, neither being self-serving, nor going to waste. God is presented as a Father figure so we understand the nature of our spiritual relationship to Him. Only tyrants demand someone to kneel and grovel before them. Love from within, however, compels voluntary behavior and a change in heart as we grow in our love. I think our idea of “worship” of God is often off the mark. There is a biological truth to a weekly rest needed for the optimal health of the body. I see that God really wants our hearts, so our worship of God is to acknowledge the wisdom, grace, love, and beauty that is God seen in others, in creation, and in ourselves...and to live out of that life and awareness. That is worship to me (a living worship that shows God, not just talks about God), rather than chanting something in some building somewhere and going through some tired, hollow outer motions. We demonstrate our admiration of and unity with the heart of God by how we live daily and how we love others. We need to give them life, not religion and rules. We love God by loving His many children, and learning also to accept and love ourselves as His good and worthy creation Whom He loves and admires and for whom He has grand intentions. That to me is real worship which makes our Dad proud and pleased, and actually accomplishes something in this world. It shows we admire and respect Him and His principles which are based on His character. The principle of resting being associated with the seventh day tells us something about the nature of the work of God (seven is the number of completed and perfected things). Six is the number of man and man’s things. God also invites us to “enter into His rest”—to take part in that seventh day spiritually, not literally any longer. It enables in us a work that rests while in motion, knows peace in the midst of noise and chaos, and lets a spirit operate naturally and faithfully through our hearts instead of striving outwardly in the flesh to control behaviors and keep laws and make spiritual things happen through natural efforts. I don’t mean we don’t do lots of things here in the natural. I mean we don’t try to accomplish them merely out of the natural. If you want to keep the Sabbath holy as God means it, you have to enter into His place of rest which permits the Spirit to operate through your outward life. Simply, to connect with the life of God is to enter a place of rest where natural striving can cease, and all the “work” we do spiritually in the world is restful, even while having great power and potential effect. Every day should be the day we “rest” and worship God in who we are being and what we are doing. It doesn’t even require saying “God” in anything. It requires loving and honoring God by demonstrating God to our siblings in this world (that’s everyone) and reacquainting those who are estranged from their own Father with a compelling taste of Who He is because of what can be seen and known in those who have “seen” Him. quote:And yet, if this freedom from the law of sin and death and the payment in full for the wages of sin (falling short) does not include the freedom to do what is in our hearts, then we are condemned all over again, just as under the old law. Jesus said, if you desire a thing in your heart it is the same thing as doing it. Practically speaking, it makes no difference to your spiritual condition whether you are desiring a thing and controlling the outward fulfilliment of that desire or actually simply doing it. You can’t fool God, and He wants our hearts and beings, not controlled outward behavior. Yes, we are to grow in discipline and loving behavior. That comes naturally out from within as we connect with God and surrender to that Life Force in us instead of trying to conform to the outward form of “being good.” The grace of God is that it IS effortless, just as a new tree grows from a seed that falls into soil and is watered. The seed doesn’t strive to grow. It just does, because it has the law of life in it and it just does what it does. The life of God in us grows the same way as we keep it nurtured. Tyrants compel outward compliance with little regard to inner desire. God wants us to love and embrace Him wholly out of our admiration, trust, love, and adoration—like a son for a wise and loving father whom he wants to grow up and be like. Our freedom now simply has to include the liberty to follow our hearts and work out and transform the desires of our hearts until they come into accord with the heart of God which is perfect in love. If we are condemned at each step that our hearts still desire things and imagine things which fall short of perfect love, then the price paid for the redemption of all the removal of all sin is paid in vain, not paid in full, not paid at all really. It’s done us no good . We are not really free from anything. We are still in danger of being condemned by our hearts, let alone, by our behavior. That’s still bondage to the law of sin and death. And none of us can live up to that, just as Israel always failed to keep the law and just as children growing up have not yet learned to be selfless beings. We require much experience and discipline and growth to work selfish and unloving and hurtful things out of our hearts, out of our desires. We have to grow up. The best teacher is experience. That is why I suggested to Alex that he might have to go explore experientially the sexual wishes of his heart so he can learn through experience what are to be the ultimate desires and values of his heart. To bury desire under controlled behavior is psychologically and physically unhealthy, and fails to ever deal with the root of or understanding of, or changing of that desire, if indeed it even needs to be changed. A lot of what we think God is hung up about, is only what we have decided to get hung up about. We waste a lot of time judging good and evil for ourselves and others and beating each other up over it when God just wants us to get on with learning how to love and get over ourselves. In fact, that is the original sin, taking the task upon ourselves to judge good and evil, right and wrong. We adopted our own system of morality which condemns us but has no power to give us life to overcome our weaknesses, our missing the mark (our sins). I needed to own a convertible Mustang once. Having finally owned one, I soon no longer valued or desired one. Through experience, the desires of my heart evolved. I got it out of my system. It is not something I value now. Had I never just gotten one, I would have never gotten past that desire and moved on to more mature perspectives. It’s a simple parallel example. There is a Scripture which says God promises to “give us the desires of our hearts.” Well anyone believer or non can readily see this is not so at we’d normally read it. God is no free vending machine in the sky. We are to read it that He places, inworks, reworks, transforms, and adds to the desires of our hearts until they conform to the law of love which the old law pointed to. We are given new desires as we grow spiritually. We don’t have to strive after changing our hearts. We strive to remain connected to God Who nurtures that life within us. quote:I hope you understood that I wasn’t really suggesting I think you or anyone needs to jettison all (or any) earthly possessions in order to enter into the life of God. I don’t ever use the term “go to heaven” because Scripture never once uses it, and doesn’t seem to be talking about going anywhere or even putting it off into a future event when you look a little closer. It’s popular Christian jingoism, but it ain’t what’s written. God and the Life He offers freely to all of us is all about the here and now and becoming something through the rulership of God in us now. It’s all about spiritual condition, not some physical or astral location. I was pointing toward the absurdity to see that Jesus or Paul or anyone was coming along to establish new wordly rules to determine our spiritual condition in God. Nothing on the outside, including what we do or don’t own can determine our spiritual condition or connection. It is neither caused by it or prevented by it. That is how our free invitation to communion with God works. It is not based on our worthiness. It is based on the grace of God our Father desiring union with his own children no matter what state they are in. I already said (in the terminated thread this evolved from) something about the principle I believe Jesus was getting at in that dialog about riches and possessions and letting go of things. The riches are really the inner things in our hearts we cling to which we feel wealthy and safe within—typically religious things—but which really rob us of connecting with God ourselves directly. That’s something worthy of some serious contemplation if you ask me. I am studying to be a psychotherapist. It bothers me greatly that I will be charging people money to do something I really want somehow to be able to do for free while living in this world, because I love doing it and I want to encourage and nurture others in life out of whatever I have to help do it. I will be able to give away some of this gift, but until more of the world learns to operate on a freely receive/freely give principle, I can’t live that way exclusively...I’d be tempted to try, but I’m still contemplating how God can enable us to live on the principle of “freely receive/freely give” in a world which worships and requires money. Gizmo, I’d surely say you do much to love and demonstrate the heart of God (and to worship God) in the loving and wise raising of your children with your husband, a very important and noble task all by itself which has long-running effect upon this world and its future. We do similarly (or could) in our daily jobs as engineers, barristas, checkers, doctors, plumbers, or whatever. There is no limit to the time, place, or way in which it is possible to do that restful, but dynamically effective work of God by showing God to others through love, and not only showing, but changing others, including forming children steeped in a spirit of love and knowing Who their Father is. Love has transformational power. The work of God has nothing to do with sanctified and religious outward trappings—missions work or being a pastor is no more holy and Godly a thing than a common janitor simply loving and nurturing people out of the strengths and insights God gave him in his own environment, and therefore showing God to them. Our every breath and whole being should radiate the heart and quality and passion of God to others, even if we never utter His name aloud to anyone. The world is crying out, “Show me, don’t tell me.” (As I spend many words telling about God...yes, ironic, but there is a place for word and argument too). quote:That’s a whole ‘nuther big discussion all by itself, and I could spend quite a few words looking at just the three little scriptures which use the word “antichrist” and a few others (which don’t) but which get tacked into the mythology. I’ll try to suggest something basic. Christians have built up some huge, silly, fearful mysticisms out of some very simple and greatly misunderstood passages. Fear always shows us we’re going off in the wrong direction. Fear is the killer of bodies and a spirit of love alike. Fear is the great adversary. It disconnects us from God, and it betrays our lack of faith in His character and His promise, not to mention His sovereignty over all His creation. I see fear at the root of everything we ultimately call “sin.” If we fear, we are failing in our living in the spirit of Love which is of God. Nor do we need to wield fear to motivate anyone back to their Father. John in his three books wrote about antichrist—that it is a spirit (an attitude or energy which we see operating through people) and that there are already (in the first century) many antichrists operating in the world. How do we get one evil future supervillain out of this kind of basic principle? Mixing these kind of simple passages with symbols in Revelation about a “man of sin” and other misappropriated bits and pieces from farflung parts of Scriptures has led to some wild sci-fi tales now taught by a variety of denominations today. You know, Christians were sure that Nero guy was “the antichrist” and they’ve been getting it wrong ever since. So much fear...a terrible price to pay for using the natural mind to ascertain spiritual things. It ain’t ever going to happen, so you can stop worrying. I can promise you this. I wish I could take it away from everybody, but I doubt I could by any few words. It’s a terrible lie full of fear (we like being afraid) which serves no good and leads many to abandon hope to this life and our privileges and calling right here right now. Plenty could be similarly addressed concerning “second comings”, “tribulations” and “raptures”, and plenty more. We’ve dragged so many things from simple, but potent spiritual principles and promises down into fearful, twisted literal earthly things. “The” Antichrist is a term that never appears in the Bible. “Anti” is a Greek word that means “opposed to”, but also means“instead of”—a substitute. Christ is just a word (not a name) meaning “anointing/anointed”. Anti-christ is the spirit that operates in the world to substitute the life of God (and therefore oppose its operation) with something else which is not the life of God. We can say the spirit of anti-christ is the substitute anointing which works in the world to divert people from true life and power in God. I suggest this speaks more about religious deception and blind following (especially in our very own hearts) which leads many people astray from simple spiritual connection with God, and not about anything “out there” in the natural world that threatens. Certainly not a charismatic world leader. Someone hasn’t been paying attention if he thinks one human being can ever hope to entice all nations to submit to his rule. No man in all of history has ever achieved it, though many have tried. We should pay attention to the prophecy of the statue in Daniel which shows five nation systems which were to dominate in the natural world. There was Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Rome, and the broken up nations which came out of the Roman Empires (roughly Europe) and which were said would never cleave together, just like the ten toes of iron and clay they were. Then the vision shows a rock which grinds them all to powder and is said to be the “Kingdom of Heaven” doing away with all these systems and replacing it with that divine rulership. Someone tell me where in this succession is room for a world government led by a man? Can’t do it or you are contradicting God’s own prophecy—if you are going to follow Scripture, the same one that talks about antichrist spirits and symbolic “man of sin” in Revelation. There are no other world governments ever to come again, only the eventual conquering of all hearts of humanity by the spiritual rule of God in men which Jesus demonstrated. That’s what’s left on the agenda. It’s not complicated. It just will take a long unfolding as it has been. And I don’t mean the rule of Churchianity again. quote:Crickey, Gizmo, you are determined to make me write an embarrassingly long post again and I don’t want to! But I can’t begin to do any one of these questions any justice with a few short sentences. What to do? I can simply try to offer a very summary kind of answer, but it can only scratch the surface and may sound unthinkable on its face to any traditional thinking. First and foremost God is One, as all things are ultimately His, of Him, out of Him, because of Him, for Him, to Him, and promised in our same scriptures repeatedly to be brought into wholeness and unity within Him in due time. God is One, God is three in one sense, God is many, and God is all. God is really a family, signified by the Father-Source, children who are sons (and daughters, but the symbol is Son). Paul said Jesus was “the firstborn of many brothers” and that “all shall be alive in Him in due order.” We are called into sonship just as Jesus demonstrated sonship. If he was magically enabled in some way we cannot be, then we have no hope of entering into what he showed us. But we are called and urged to do exactly that! He is the Pattern Son, the example. This is another controversial issue for sure, but Jesus himself never said worship me, I am God. He always spoke of and pointed to the Father, even while saying, “We are one.” But we too are to be one with God and united as one true body with one Mind alone, the “mind of Christ”—the “anointed mind” which is found in the Father and was seen in Jesus the anointed. I see Jesus as no less or more human than you or me, yet I also see us as no less divine via our Godly birthright than Jesus, who is called our older brother. This does not diminish Jesus. It raises us up out of the sinful, lowly fallen muck we like to keep decorating ourselves with, imagining that God approves when we call ourselves sons of pigs instead of His sons. It establishes us all as the sons of God who are called to believe it and act like it. We don’t have the authority or role Jesus had. He served a special purpose. But He is our brother, the firstrunner, the firstfruits. This is all right in that Bible of yours, in those terms. He demonstrated first what we are destined also to fulfill if we dare believe it and pursue it...that walk in union with the Father Who is our Source of life and love, and was the Source for the love and character of Jesus. We are called to be like him. I don’t know three Gods, I know One God expressed in a multitude of ways. I know something of Him as Father. I know something of Him as expressed as the Pattern Son, Jesus (the example of our sonship), I know and see Him operating as “holy spirit”--the invisible energetic working of God in others and in ourselves through our connection with the Father just as Jesus did. These aren’t three separate Gods, but three ways God has manifested, and one of which we are specifically called into. But God is infinite and all His creation is to be One in Him in the “end”. God is really just One, but vastly so in His oneness and expression. One in countless numbers, in countless children ultimately. He promised it. He will make it so as we make it so. But He’s going to do what Fathers do and help us get there without doing it for us. We are the spiritual children of God, so we are a part of the God family. As we grow up spiritually in our family, we are given the privileges and authority that goes with the territory. Jesus demonstrated a portion of this and called us to join, always talking about the “Kingdom of Heaven” (the ruling of the Spirit within us). Paul called us to follow his example so that we could reflect Jesus as if in a mirror. I believe God has indeed, as promised, made this possible for us. Jesus came to show us and open up to us the call back into the life God made us to have as His own children and of His kind, which is the God kind. We are not God, but we are of God and out of God, and one in God. We have inherited his incorruptible nature which is found deep in our spirits which came out of God and cannot be corrupted. But we have done a good job burying that life deeply under lies and distractions and fears and self-created isolation from the Source of Life. We need to get reconnected and shed all the crud we have had stuck onto us, marring our vision and reflection. We became enemies of God in our own minds, not in God’s. We ran from Him. We need only turn back into life. We are not held back by Him. We are not disqualified. Jesus came to show us the way back into Life. Not by him, the magical man, but by him as the living example of connection with and outflow from the Divine Father. We are to grow up into mature sons of God. Christ is the firstborn, but we are to follow in his footsteps...not deify him and worship him instead of our Father, because he is like us, our elder brother to be admired, emulated, and loved, and hopefully to be understood, because he was pushing us to do something. I think this is one of the biggest ways Christianity went off the mark very early on...the making of Jesus into something superhuman and alien, cutting us off from the same kind of life and connection he showed us and showed was possible for us. [Massively huge post resurrected] - no Balm of Life required. [ Tuesday, October 25, 2005 22:27: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| God Stuff (Antichrist! You better spell it right! ) in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, October 24 2005 23:40
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I hope no one minds if I port this conversation to its own home instead of under someone else's ongoing unrelated topic. quote:Well, yes and no. I would not as yet call myself a scholar, but from my understanding, which I'll admit is far from perfect or complete, all the Law that had to do with sacrifice or attonement for making oneself clean in no longer necessary because that is what Christ 'fulfilled' by his death on the cross. These laws should not be kept because the price for all sin has already been paid and all are 'clean' who accept his sacrifice for their salvation. Then Jesus also said that keeping the commandments of 'love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself' fulfilled all the rest of the commandments. So for instance, if you love God with all your heart you automatically won't take his name in vein because you know by reading the Word that he doesn't like it. If you love God with all your heart you will automatically rest on the Sabbath because you know that it pleases God for you to do so. If you love your neighbor, you're not going to murder him or lie about him or steal from him. If you break any of the ten commandments then you have also broken the commandments of love. (Which is why I agree that there can be no sin in perfect love.) Now for the rest of Leviticus that doesn't pertain to sacrifices or unclenliness, I am still searching. I had never looked at 'heaven and earth' the way Synergy described it. It would make sense since Jesus's death on the cross was the fulfillment of the law. Plus I feel no conviction to wear clothing made of only one material and don't see the rational behind not boiling a young goat in it's mother's milk(though I haven't eaten goat at all). As it is, I look to the Spirit to convict me on what is a sin 'for me', and let him convict other Christians in like manner. The 'freedom' I have in Christ is not a free pass to doing anything I want, it is the privilage to do what the Lord leads without fear. I do still have a responsibility to learn the Law and seek out the truth in it. quote:Ah, but I got this double meaning. And actually there is nothing I'd like more then to leave all my stuff behind and go to volunteer at Hepzibah Children's Home full time, but I have a family to raise first and some learning and growing to do as well. It is actually more trying for me to stay put and deal with the work God has given me to do now then it would be to drop everything and serve him elsewhere. When the door opens I'm more then willing to walk through it. quote:The problem is that this is how the AntiChrist is supposed to be, too. Fooling even some of the 'elite'. It's a good thing we know how Jesus is really going to come back. No one will be able to deny Him then. * As a side observation, I note that you have repeatedly reffered to Jesus as a 'guy'. What are your views on the Trinity and Godhood of Jesus? [ Saturday, November 12, 2005 23:51: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- [Insert Signature Here] Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |