Profile for Synergy
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | Synergy |
| Member number | 6292 |
| Title | Shaper |
| Postcount | 2009 |
| Homepage | |
| Registered | Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
Recent posts
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| Author | Recent posts |
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| The Insidious Infiltrator in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 20:11
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Yes, well, the Infiltrator does feel vulnerable a good bit of the time, in that you have to execute some of your battles carefully, especially before Chapter 3-4. If one wants a little extra help early on, one can take Splinterfang along through much of Chapter 1. A few points could be thrown into Endurance per one's comfort level, with not much detriment to ultimate magical potency. A little strength can be added to carry heavier armor, but that will also sacrifice a little battle magic punch. Right now, Val is using the Gloves of Savagery and the Talisman of Might to wear a Shaped Breastplate along with the Dexterity Boots she just picked up. I can shift back to the Shaper Trueweave and Runed Jade Necklace when she needs less protection, but wants to maximize her battle magic. Additionally, one could invest more in Intelligence to comfortably carry along a couple of shaped companions, which can be Drayks by Chapter 3 or Kyshakks by Chapter 4, made possible with Fire-Shaping gear: a Shaper Robe and Volcanic Fetish get you up to level 3 Fire Shaping ability. It's another leap to get Ice-Drayks though. I need to make the Shapemaster Boots after finishing Quessa-Uss in order to make anything more powerful, which are needed for the Titan's Realm and facing some of the Shapers near the end typically. Val will use a little shaping late in the game as necessary, and already used a couple drayks for the Old Golem, as mentioned. -S- [ Friday, March 23, 2007 04:03: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Dillame in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 19:52
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Have you liquidated Dillame before, Randomizer? How does it compare on the difficulty level...as hard or harder than Poryphyra as you imply? I will probably attempt it with my Infiltrator before the game is over...in the interest of new challenges and maximal experience points. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Why You Suck: Ancient Greek Edition in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 19:48
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Another fun fact of the Genesis 19 Sodom story to note is that the angels (a word that simply means "messenger") are seen to be men by the people of Sodom. 4 ¶ But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; 5 and they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men that came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. But more than this, they are called men by the narrative itself: 10 But the men put forth their hand, and brought Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. 12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son-in-law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whomsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of the place A careful poring through the scriptures shows no evidence for angels being a separate race of spiritual beings, as popular tradition holds unquestioningly. They are seen and experienced as men, even if men sent from a heavenly realm. Also, a witch successfully contacts the spirit of Samuel, the dead prophet. So, why do angels need to be seen as anything other than the spirits of men who are presently inhabiting the spiritual plane, rather than on the earthly? The separate race of angels notion is entirely extra-biblical. It's funny how many foundational beliefs aren't even supported by the actual texts. There's all kinds of trippy stuff in there I never heard from the pulpit or in class, when I was a kid sitting in church. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Canisters (SPOILER) in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 19:34
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It's no less sorry a conclusion for you, let's put it that way. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| The Insidious Infiltrator in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 19:29
Profile
quote:Exactly! :D I want to see how extreme I can make it. I do have ingredients for the second mental focus charm, but I haven't yet secured the second anvil, and haven't bothered to go back to Sandros to make it yet. I will have either three or four of them before the game is over. I'm following the reputation optimizing path of being somewhat pro-shaper, but playing both sides. When I free the prisoners in the Western Morass, my rep will be just low enough to get the kill the five infiltrators task, but I will also help them each before dispatching them. It will be mostly pro-shaper after that. I'll document actual attack power more frequently in Chapter Four and Five. It's terrific fun being so lethal. I hope to demonstrate that the Infiltrator, being strongest in magic ability with the essence to back it up, is ultimately the most powerful fighting machine of the PC's, as I've been contending since the beta days. Why build a strong defense investing tons of points in Endurance for a Servile, when you can mop everything up three times as fast with a strong offense in magic? I almost never use melee. I also have yet to fire a thorn, when the essence-free Fireball has been more punchy from the get-go. I'm about to storm the Western Morass and will be getting back to providing more plot 'n' pics of the progress, now that I am in untrod territory, as far as this thread is concerned. I'm doing this mostly just to see what kind of end stats I can achieve, and what that feels like in action. -S- P.S. So, note my focus on the actual potency/rapidity with which the Infiltrator can clear through areas with spell power. My main focus has been on what feels most competent and fun. There is good fun in being a Servile tank who can wander casually into anything and patiently hack everything to pieces. Lifecrafters with minions to do your bidding is also good fun. I have had the most fun being so powerful on magical offense. The real test may be how it is to take out Matala. [ Sunday, February 25, 2007 01:32: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Consequences in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 18:15
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You can also stay just out of range of the turrets while you are fighting the rest of the party with Daze and ranged attacks. Then when nothing is left moving, you can attack the turrets one at a time at your leisure. There is no way to deactivate the purple mines all about, and they are fairly deadly, so be careful of them. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Finally finished! in Avernum 4 | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 17:00
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You might really enjoy the most recently release Geneforge 4 too then. Many here consider it a significantly better game than Avernum IV in numerous respects, and its engine is similar, though the map is broken into areas. I never played GF 1-3 because I wasn't much interested in mixing more Sci-Fi into my fantasy role-play gaming, but GF4 feels a lot like a fantasy game and is a fine game overall in many respects. Also, you may want to watch for the revamped, reissued version of Nethergate to come out later this year. This may well be the best game Jeff ever made, and with a remade engine or interface, it has the potential to be, uh, most fantastic. -S-  [ Saturday, February 24, 2007 17:04: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Why You Suck: Ancient Greek Edition in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 16:43
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Here is what Isaiah has to say about the primary offense of Sodom in God's eyes: Isaiah 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom: pride, fulness of bread, and prosperous ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good. The very last thing mentioned is abomination, which may or may not have been speaking of anything sexual. Would not pride and despising the poor and needy be abominable in the eyes of a God Who instructs neighbor to love neighbor? EDIT: This is very interesting too: a prophesied restoration of the obliterated city/people (and others) by Ezekiel. What shall we make of this? Ezekiel 16:55 As for your sisters, Sodom and her daughters shall return to their former estate, and Sama'ria and her daughters shall return to their former estate; and you and your daughters shall return to your former estate. Israel has of 1948 returned to its former estate of nationhood. Is Sodom to be restored in some fashion? If you believe in the promises of scriptures, then it seems this sort of promise also needs to be reconciled with the nature of God and judgements. Are they utterly permanent? -S- [ Saturday, February 24, 2007 16:50: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Round Table on Morality, Theology, and Ethics in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 16:30
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I won't disagree with you about Christian history. The King James version of the Bible was translated into English under political auspices and contained some 10, 000 documented translational errors initially. There is great power in words and concepts. "Hell" itself is an old English word that originally meant a hidden place. To "hell your potatoes" meant to hoe them under the earth out of sight. Now the word hell through popular assocation with the Bible has a horrific implication. Randomizer said: quote:I am operating in this view of God under the assumption or belief that humankind is created with a link to the Divine and a nature that reflects the nature of God (our heart and drive and what fulfills us is akin somehow to the heart and drive and fulfillment of God.) The suggestion is an intimate link between God and us. In knowing ourselves, we know a lot about God. I'm suggesting that it is God's wisdom that there is a purpose in experience, and what we gain through it, over merely being immediately placed into some ideal position. Moreover, because this view of God suggests there is no end to experience and expansion, and therefore learning, it is the very nature of the whole reason we are here: to grow up perpetually and take on more and more, better and better in doing so. This is by nature an endlessly experiential and learning process. I like to think of evil as the lack of thing, rather than an opposite/negative thing, just as darkness isn't a thing, but just the absence of light. Evil exists by default where there is a lack of light (vision/clarity/truth/real being in a spiritual sense.) Evil can be likened to the Biblical meaning of the word "sin" which is an archery term meaning to "fall short of the mark." Evil is what we naturally wind up doing when we don't yet know what we are doing and do things less than ideally. If we still operate out of fear, a sense of lack, and under false perceptions, we do foolish, selfish, and hurtful things. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| The Insidious Infiltrator in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 16:15
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I am caught up with Valeta III to where Valeta II botched things up. We're through Chapter 3 in record time and well into Ch. 4. She took out Monarch, never seeing a single summoned creation to fight, nor taking more than one or two attacks by Monarch. She had him whittled down to virtually nothing before he even made it to his chamber. Nearly everything she faced in the fens died with one hit of Firebolt, Searer, or Ice Spray. She's affixed spines to much of her gear to heavily punish anyone who comes in for melee attack. She went through all four foes in the back of the Sandros Mine before heading to Burwood. She created a couple of drayks to deal with the Old Golem, who is always a decent challenge. With something like 55 Essence Pods on hand, using aggressive spells like Kill are not a problem. It did take about three efforts to take him out, as those hastings and brutal clobbering punches at the end can be very quickly lethal. The final spectre was a piece of cake, as usual, by comparison. She also whittled a few guards down at the Shaper Camp near Southforge, cleaned out Southforge, Uchitelle (he drops a Shaper Robe worth 500 gold,) the Eastern Checkpoint, and the Western Rise. She has more to mop up yet at the Western gates and the Shaper Camp. I suppose if she wants some more fun, she could mop up Rivergate Keep and Dillame. I've never tried it before, Maybe the guards are as annoying to whittle down as the ones in the Barrier Zone. Val III's Stats upon entering Burwood, Chapter 4:  Val III's Gear:  Fibrous Breastplate Agent Cloak (+1 Battle Magic / +1 Mental Magic / +1 Blessing Magic / +1 Spellcraft) Girdle of Genius (+2 Intelligence) Guardian Claymore (+2 Strength / +2 Quick Action) Ring of Eye’s Purity (+3 Battle Magic / +3% Energy Preservation) Runed Jade Necklace (+1 Spellcraft) Clawbug Carapace (+1 Quick Action) Gloves of Savagery (with Damage Attacker enhancement) (+2 Strength / +2 Melee / +4 Quick Action) Fine Silk Pantaloons Sandals (+2 Dexterity) Physician's Charm (+1 Healing Craft) Skein of Wisdom (+1 Intelligence) Gruesome Charm (+2 Intelligence, + Dexterity, -2 Endurance) Mental Focus Charm (+1 Spellcraft) -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Round Table on Morality, Theology, and Ethics in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 15:36
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There's something incomparable to gaining a thing and learning a thing by experience. The most popular love story formula is: boy meets girl, boy loves girl, boy loses girl, boy wins back girl, boy and girl find love together. There is something richer about having to struggle and fight and work for our goal than just have it handed to us. We don't comprehend or appreciate its quality and value the same without having lost or lacked it for a time. The idea is that God's pleasure is also for our fulfillment, not merely God wanting to fashion something amusing and pleasing for Godself. God's nature seems to be to endless expansion and myriad facets of expression, seen in the uniqueness of each individual and the ever-expanding family of humanity. Also, if humans are all a part of God and infused and linked with a part of the spirit that is said to be God, then God is having experience through us and as us as well. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Why You Suck: Ancient Greek Edition in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 12:43
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I'm curious if it has been unearthed at all, where the Greek predilection toward man-boy love took root. It is fascinating to me how cultures take on entire attitudes, yet it seems likely they often originated with but one influential person or group early on. Who started it? Perhaps someone might have had such a negative experience with women, he developed a serious disdain for them, and a new ideal of love was fashioned out of a personal bias and it took cultural root. Peer pressure and socialization are powerful factors. Eventually, this culture gave us (maybe only by inference as I couldn't find the actual quote in a search) something of the wry joke that,"Hemlock is preferable to wedlock." I suspect misogyny taking place there, a reactive sexuality, not merely a natural preference for homosexuality. It's also suggestive that you can cultivate homosexuality in some fashion through societal values and preferences, rather than supporting a biological determinant. Or else there was something in the water that made them all gay, like the lead water pipes that made Roman elite insane. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Round Table on Morality, Theology, and Ethics in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, February 24 2007 12:27
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The existence of evil makes more sense if there is a God Who: A) Is actually sovereign and in control of the bounds of the experience of humankind (it will not be permitted to go too far.) B) Has brought humankind into existence to have experience, learn lessons, grow up, and be prepared for something even more meaningful yet to come. C) Has purposes for each soul beyond this current, solitary physical life. D) Relegates no one to some permanent fixed fate merely because their heart stopped beating. E) Makes good on the promises God made that all things will be made new, filled with God, will come to know God, will live in harmony and peace. -If this present experience isn't the end of the matter, and God is a God of rebirth, redemption, and transformation ultimately, then evil and death have no ultimate power. There is suffering, yes. There is no absolute victory of evil over life and truth though. Perhaps the biggest problem with the present Christian portrayal of God is that He is not really omnipotent, and that Christianity has invited in the formerly pagan concepts of a fiery, punitive afterlife into its language, either adopting it errantly, or permitting its symbolic spiritual imagery to be dragged down to literal processes. There is a scripture that states, "Our God is a consuming fire." Sounds ilke if you want to enter into this God, you are going to step into fire. But who said that is supposed to be a terrible thing on a spiritual level? -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Why You Suck in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 23:20
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quote:It would have been more interesting if he actually were. Mostly he's just been asserting that I suck, not why. I'm usually more interested in why people believe what they believe than merely in what they believe. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Why You Suck in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 21:50
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You don't seem to understand that I am wholly indifferent to your attitude toward me. I just wanted to be clear on something. There are, I would guess, a whole lot of people here who are not your sort or type, Lucien. Your type, I believe, is found in concentration at Desperance. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Why You Suck in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 21:32
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quote:What occurred is you started being subtly and consistently nasty toward me. Why would you expect me to get along with you after observing so much of that for a while? quote:Either-Or Fallacy. If your implied suggestion is corrrect, then I should be having a problem with 8000 members of SW. The chemistry between any two people is its own unique third entity. It is a synergy. I am not the dog in the simile. If you believe, by my calling attention to your behavior, that I am wounded by the unimaginative slurs emanating out of your adolescent curled-lip anarchist bravado, you are mistaken.. I would have to care about you or your opinion in the first place to be offended. I just wanted to be clear on the signals I was getting. I will soon cease to engage you entirely rather than the very rarely I have all along. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Why You Suck in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 20:24
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Oh yeah, and then there’s Thuryl. Kel is a pleasure to engage by comparison. That’s not meant to be sarcastic at all, as far as Kel is concerned. quote:As I believe you will find, I have done likewise on more than one occasion here as well. The issue, however, has been how I felt I have been caused offense by something Kel wrote, not vice-versa. quote:Exactly what I want to hear from an obliging sociopath, since I can’t look him in the eye to see the malignant intent for myself. You just did put it on the table, though, so I got exactly what I wanted from you. My intuitions have not served me in vain. quote:You and I have no basis for communication whatsoever either way—isn’t that a relief? But what I meant is that it wasn’t obvious to me whether or not Kel intended it to be seen as hyperbolic or not. Not well-fleshed out in expression, admittedly. quote:Do you mean amused, like in the way that a juvenile deliquent headed for serial killer status is amused at how the dog squirms as he keeps sticking the knife in again and again? -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| [Insert Dumb Joke Here] in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 19:29
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quote:Good guess, moonear. The insultingly-stupid-but-possibly-good-for-one-involuntary-chuckle answer is, of course: Three degrees below zero. : P -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Rotghroth in Geneforge 4: Rebellion | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 19:25
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quote:And I wouldn't want to try to picture that happening, either. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Why You Suck in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 19:22
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Well, I'm glad you got what you wanted. I can't say I did. Consider it a labor of love then. Affectionately Yours, -Synergy- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
| Why You Suck in General | |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 18:48
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One of my own points is that in the online world we are all so great at missing the point all too often. It's the nature of the medium and the so-called "relationship" that hobbles along herein. I'll cut you that slack if you cut it for me. So, sure, watch me snicker at myself and nonchalantly admit that you got me. I'm tired. I made a mistake. I meant "precise," not "concise." Thank you for so thoughtfully pointing that out, because I'm sure all my meaning was lost had it not been done. But while we are at it, that could be a fun exercise too. Can you come up with a shorter term than “superlative?” The point of my last post was both serious and sarcastic. Because I think it is a valid observation of your primary concern and tripping point in dialog with myself (as Alo pointed out,) if not others, and I say, who the hell cares so much? Can you hear the heart of what I am saying? If you are confused by my sometimes imprecision or carelessness, do you ask for clarification to actually understand, are you actually curious holding judgement and disdain in at least temporary reserve, or do you take delight in finding the fault and assuming the worst at first chance? But here, I’ll take it even a step further and propose the following. I write in broad, dramatic, and sometimes caustic strokes, not because I intend to make a person (or the persons who enjoy SW) feel bad, but because I feel passionately about the things that substitute for or steal our life and truth from us. When I write from that unapologetic passion, I probably often step on some toes, and people get irritated at me and/or feel a need to defend their ego and integrity, even though that’s not what I’m meaning to attack. I do think it’s absurd, laughable, and a bit pathetic how wrapped up in online worlds we are all prey to become... m y s e l f i n c l u d e d. I am not immune to much of what I disparage or dissect. I make my cutting statements with the awareness that I am often commenting just as much upon myself or my own propensities. So...I think you got a bit pissed off that I was showing a certain disdain for the sacred SW world and online relationships in some fashion and that fueled your interest in both proving me wrong or illogical somehow, as well as getting some dig in at me to take me down a notch. After all, I was attacking indirectly your experience of having some powerful experiences because of your own online relationships. But, back to the many things you asked me to address specifically. Anyone getting annoyed at the process over content focus of this portion of the thread, please keep in mind that the subject overall is the meta-qualities of the SW experience. What better place than this thread to talk about what we are talking about and how we are talking about what we are talking about, instead of just talking about it? ..... Originally written by Kelandon: quote:So, let’s start here, Kel. Freaked out? Oh, please. Consider being a little less condescending, and you might get further faster. So, I could ask, is this misperception? Is it intentional hyperbole? Is it your insistence on seeing and casting me in as deprecating a light as possible? One wonders. I’ve been very relaxed the last two days. If you want to be gracious, you can simply admit that I took offense at something you wrote. If I took your intention in the offending statement wrongly, I’m happy to find out how that was. I still haven’t seen you write anything that suggests it isn’t dismissively insulting without qualification. I reacted to that absolute dismissal of all I’ve said, essentially. And I also took the opportunity to embellish my point of view, which wasn’t necessarily about you much at all. They were additional thoughts on the matter. Yes, it’s all so complex: the multi-layered motivations and thinking and feeling behind what elicits words committed to type. quote:False accusation. Presumption. You, sir, are simply mistaken. Ye of little faith in your fellow man. I read everything you wrote. And I have thought about it as well. Had there not have been the primary issue of a disdainful opening statement standing in the way, I would have quite peaceably addressed your simple and worthwhile point. I still will in fact, if we return to any kind of civil understanding. From where I sit, you broke the ceasefire by completing dismissing the validity or value of all my thoughts by the way you chose to comment on the nature of ALL of them in one FACTUALLY stated, unqualified statement. That you are having such a hard time seeing how this is a godawful way to entice anyone to want to address a further word you have to say, is um, well, many things. You made a factual statement that my thinking is entirely invalid. You didn’t say you perceive what I am saying as such, you suspect it is such. You didn’t express any curiosity to clarify to conclude for certainty it must be such. You invalidated everything I said with a dismissive introductory wave of your hand. “All your thinking is faulty....Oh, and by the way, here’s one point I’d love to have you answer on.” Why would I want to discuss anything with a man who thinks all my thinking is circular. Perhaps even more bafflingly...WHY WOULD YOU? Why do you want to talk about anything with a man whose logic is so completely worthless, Kel. Tell me that, because that just sounds malignant to me. I’m clearly beyond hope or redemption of being won to any logical way of reasoning as you of course do. Avoiding anything you wrote has never been my intention here. It’s simply first things first with me. I am not often inclined to have discussion or debate with people I perceive as disrespecting my integrity or taking cheap shots at me from the outset. Why would I want to? You didn’t open with, “I think your reasoning is largely circular here, and here’s why....(explain explain). Did I miss something? Would you care to elaborate more? Perhaps I, in my only nearly-infinite wisdom and logic, have missed something.” This would have been a gracious way to communicate that you think my reasoning sucks. I have no problem if you think my reasoning sucks. It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. How you did say it in your opening might as well translate into, “Synergy, you’re an idiot.” quote:They were among other things already alluded to, designed to address what I guessed you might have been thinking in making your assertion about circularity. I will not bother to elaborate upon the connections at present, but I assure you they exist. quote:Classy way to get in the cheap shots free of charge. Nice touch. “I’m not going to insult you, but if I wanted to, here’s exactly what I’d say.” I’m pretty sure the first three are exactly what you really think of me, tellingly enough, and the fourth is just one of Alec’s usual insults tacked on to distract from the genuine energy of the first three. quote: quote:Yet another all or nothing extrapolation. I say, “I don’t feel I made any mistakes in my post here” and you say,”You think you’re perfect and never make mistakes.” Anyone else see the leap and the disconnect in this? And some people, at least, have seen me admit my mistakes some number of times here. quote:One can communicate exactly such sentiments much more subtly and with greater eloquence. Which I perceive as very much exactly your style. Kind of like you just did, get in another suggestive jab about how you or one might be inclined to regard me. Because I am not an idiot, I readily note these actually not so subtle ways of getting your digs in again and again, Mr. “I don’t want us to be insulting each other any more.” Show me, don’t tell me. Passive-aggressive digs are no less insult than the crude, brazen insult of the less creative and the less reserved. Don’t insult my intelligence by suggesting otherwise. quote:Uhhhhh...was it or wasn’t it? Why don’t you just get on with it and fess up to your actual intentions in all their complexity or even in their possible contradiction. If you can’t be honest about your actual feelings and intentions poured into your words, you’re going to get nowhere with me. I don’t have the interest or the tolerance to skirt around everything that’s actually really happening in interaction. That’s the polite facade bullcrap that completely wastes my time. I’m putting my cards on the table, because I’m not afraid of them or their messiness. Can you do the same? You might be surprised how much I honor a man who courageously just puts it all out there: the good, the bad, the ugly, the strong, the weak, the conflicted, the murky, the whatever. quote:Oh for God’s sake, Kel, own your own crap, man. I have been very gracious to you in IM and you have been to me as well. That you now wish to paint me as the hostile agent, and you as the patient, forgiving soul smacks of vanity, conceit, or disingenuineness. Can you own your own pride and malice and fallibility all intertwined too? Would it freakin’ kill you? Because it’s there in all of us. Who are you fooling? quote:Done, and it’s made for more than I want to be writing on this, ironically. You’ve thrown a lot at me to demand I answer it all, including the subsequent posts. I think I’m caught up to everything but the original point about relationships now. And so now, lastly, the original question: quote:They might have a powerful effect on you, but you still don’t really know that person, and perhaps the effect is based on your fantasy/imagination/hope/wish/delusion of who that person actually is. You caused the effect through your perception and belief and trust in who that person is as much as by who that person actually is in “relationship.” I’m not saying the experience is without value. I’m saying you can’t claim you’ve had any kind of truly knowing relationship with that person. You may have been prey to a powerful self-delusion, or to a falsely-presented persona. And you’ll never even know unless you finally know the person in reality...as a present human being. Pen pals and online dalliance has facets of human relationship. It’s lacking some of the most critical and necessary ones. Relationship really begins when you can look a person in the eye. Freakin’ weird, brave new world we’ve got here. Let’s not sell ourselves on the lie that the computer can ever substitute something as rich as actual human contact and relationship in our lives. -S- [ Friday, February 23, 2007 19:15: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 18:04
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It's the closest word I know to describe terminologies of all and nothing statements which outrank any statements permitting something less than either. You know a more concise term for all or nothing declarations? -S- Kel continues to prove my point. It's not what I am saying he cares much about, by all appearance...it's how I'm saying it. In my case, I care about the hows of humanitarian concerns. Kel seems obsessed with....uh, the hows of grammar and logic. Which is more important in dealing with fellow human beings, I wonder? [ Friday, February 23, 2007 18:07: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 17:00
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For chrissake, Kel, be patient man. I only had time to address what Thuryl said this morning. I've had a busy day. Rest of post to follow here. Meanwhile...unfreakinbelievable. I'll address this now: quote:You are so predictable. I just knew you would be making some such statement. So. L e t ' s m a k e t h i s v e r y s i m p l e. We are qualified to comment on our own experience. Note that I told Thuryl how I see him, perceive him, how I experience him as he chooses to be in this context. It might be a persona, it might the real Lucien, it might be a tiny fragment of the person he is. Entirely correct, by virtue of my own argument, I can't know him hardly at all. I certainly don't have what I would call relationship with him, practically speaking. BUT...I still have an experience and a perception of him. And my experience of Thuryl is what I described. It is a 100% true statement that that is how I see Thuryl. I make no claim to how Thuryl actually is or what is anyone else's experience of him. I do not state that that is "how Thuryl IS" or even that I am not mistaken in my perception of him. I am always ready and willing and even eager to hope for the best for people and permit them the possibility to surprise and impress me to no end. I have tremenous faith in our ability to endlessly change and grow. Watch my semantics, Mr. Careful Logician, and think about what they imply, and what they do not. I'm noting your increased use of superlatives and am unimpressed: "You NEVER have admitted to any mistakes on SW." "ALL your thinking is circular here." Not impressed. Could either of these statements be, um, MISTAKEN? Unfreakinbelievable. -S- P.S. Salmon is entirely correct. I am a complete and total moron when it comes to translating Dutch. Part Two: I said: “And Thuryl, apparently you haven't been paying attention. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.” “This was entirely jocular.” The reason this is primarily humorous coming from me is because I’ve only said the very same thing about two or three times here in as many days, including in my first post in this very thread. I’m poking fun at my own mantra. I suppose such moments are largely lost on you and, perhaps everyone, because you can’t really know me in this context and perhaps don’t afford me the potential complexity of being passionate, intense, sensitive, as well as silly and self-deprecating (sometimes all at once.) We are way more complex and multifaceted than any amount of typed words in online la la cyberland will ever begin to convey. I afford you that same likelihood. I do not feel it has been much afforded me, especially by you. With you it all looks black and white, on or off, all or nothing. Dude, increase the palette beyond two colors. The logic of life and being, in actuality, probably looks something very different from stifling Aristotelean logic (yawn.) [ Friday, February 23, 2007 17:29: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 11:08
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This ongoing dialog is actually a perfect example of exactly what I have been making my point about. This clunky interaction is fraught with increasing miscues and mispercpetions of tone, of intent, of meaning, etc. Online communication blows. It takes so much work just to be perceived with some semblance of actuality, which in person takes a fraction of the effort, because there is so much more indication. What is clearly not being seen at present is that I am lacing everything I am writing with a degree of jocularity and silliness by my choice of words. And what I am seeing in response is literalistic, humorless interpretation. You guys don’t know me. It’s that simple. For all my many posts here, you really don’t have a clue how I’m communicating...still. Yeah, I have sensitivities, and I will arrest a line of dialog to hammer out a perceived insult from someone I have recently agreed with to cease insults. I was taken aback by what probably was my own misperception of how Kel meant something, precisely because I thought we had come to an agreement. It still feels insulting to me, because I don’t see any actual circularity to my point at all (more on this later,) and Kel never bothered to qualify the statement with even one example. It’s as if by merely pronouncing all my thinking as such, it is so. I find that very dismissive and disdainful. So, Thuryl, you have offered me a wholly humorless and rather surly (rhymes with Thurly) reply to something that was attempting to poke some fun at the absurdity of the situation while making a point. Allow me to literally explain each line, since apparently it was entirely lost. quote:It wasn’t obvious hyperbole to me at all. As I will elucidate, there is only one thing I could construe as circular in the point I was making in this thread. Unless you operate by the conceit that because something appears a certain way to you, it should to anyone else. I wrote: quote:This was entirely jocular. I know you are very involved here and are paying attention. So, you can see the obvious hyperbole of Kel’s statement, but completely fail to hear the tongue-in cheek tone here, eh? And then I wrote: quote:Your camp to my camp...you know like, “Have your peple contact my people...” It’s a flip way for me to lighten up a question that is of some gravity, my perception that you really don’t appear to like or respect me, which is fine. But I’d rather just hear you say it instead of making uniformly subtle, passive-aggressive derogatory statements only in reply to anything I write, as you have been toward me for some time. I’m not asking you to like or even respect me. Just put it on the table dude. I’ll put this on the table. At this point, I see you as cheerless, virtually humorless, and ungracious, and somebody I would most definitely never want to meet in person. Way bad energy. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, February 23 2007 00:23
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I don't acknowledge any mistakes here. I acknowledge a statement saying that everything I was saying was circular. I would love to see Kel elaborate on every sentence and point I made to demonstrate how he believes it is based on circular reasoning. Short of that, it's a hyperbolic statement which I would have a hard time as seeing as being intended to do anything other than belittle my integrity. And Thuryl, apparently you haven't been paying attention. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. I make mistakes all the time, and quite frequently fess up readily when respectfully confronted with the possibility. When one is not given grace, honor, or dignity to do so, one might be far less inclined. Speaking of which, I can't say I've perceived much of anything I'd call gracious from your camp toward mine for some time now, subtle and subdued though your style may be. Anything you want to declare to me openly? -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |